Starting off in High Range with your 4WD.?

Submitted: Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 17:59
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I've heard a lot of 4by owners whinge about how hard it is to take off in High range, with their vehicle, To me most seem ok under normal conditions, but it takes next to no load to make them struggle on take off if on a hill or in a bit of soft ground.

My thing is why make them struggle?,..building up revs and slipping the clutch will get them moving but for how long?...LOL.....Low range is there for a reason use it!.

If you know how, changing from low to high is not hard after some practice, ..Eg with landrover when a bit of speed is built up(NO nasty comments here) throw main box into neutral double shuffle low to high, then grab appropriate gear...BUT!! you must be quick, or bits of gear box will be scattered up the road behind you..lol.

Cheers Axle
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 18:03

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 18:03
My Toyotas start of in high range with no issue.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 18:14

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 18:14
...could be Axle just had some LOLs he needed to get rid of before the end of the week :)

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Greg
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 19:27

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 19:27
Could be just a Landrover thing :)

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Follow Up By: Axle - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 19:45

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 19:45
Ah! ,..John,..I own a Toyo as well, the difference between them and landrover is bugger all, except landrover make you laugh,and that's the best deal anyone can have....lol.

Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 19:55

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 19:55
Don't know about your Landrover or which Toyota you have but my old Cruiser with the H150 gearbox which came out back in... oh... about 1990, has a synchro in the transfer case on high range so you can start off in low and shift up to high range pretty much like the main gearbox. There is also a synchro on reverse just as a matter of interest.
Having said all that, I have never found it necessary to start off in low when towing our 22' van even on hillstarts because the 4.2 turbo cruiser engine has enough torque even before the turbo kicks in.
I do use low in some off road situations though.

Now about Landrovers building up a bit of speed.......no..I'll let that go through to the keeper (;-))

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 13:15

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 13:15
Having driven all manner of autos, fully synchro manuals and crash (remember the Blitz wagons) boxes I can't see the problem.

Either the cars are way over loaded or the driver hasn't got an idea what to do. Or the hill is simply too damned steep for high range . So stay in low until it is okay and then stop, change ranges and start off.

Both the son's GQ and our 100 GXL are fine. No hassles either with the auto or the manual. I really don't understand the problem.

Phil
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Reply By: The Bantam - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 20:34

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 20:34
Shifting from low to high range on the fly, is something I have played with in the hilux.

This sort of thing is just normal in heavy trucks..admittedly it is a bit easier with the knob mounted range shifts in the modern trucks...but there where trucks in the past that had two sticks..like the macks & diamond rios.

It was driving an R600 with a twin stick box that gave me the idea of trying it in the hilux.....the twin stick in the R600 was easier because it only had a 1 gear underdrive...so low to high picked up the next gear.

the thing with the 4wds is you have to know your gearbox over lap.

In the hilux the transfer case gives you close to a 2 gear under drive..so 1st high range is close to 3rd low.

shifting up is easy and there is no double shuffling required.

proceed in 1st low range, shift like normal to 2nd low range....push down the clutch, shift back to first and push the transfer lever to to high range, clutch up.

Get it timed right and the trasfer will go straight thru......ya don't have to rush, but the shifts need to be reasonably neat

Going back the other way is another story all together....I have not got that one to work

The shifting pattern will work in any gear.....shifting down one gear and from low to high will pick you the next gear.

try it somewhere quiet with a slight uphill slope before you try it loaded.

The trick with using this practically is stratergy..deciding when you will shift from high to low...the message is to do it when it is easiest.

so, you might start off in 1st or 2nd low, it would be quite reasonable to shift normally all the way up to fourth ( same as second high) before you grab high range & third gear.

If you are working some serious hills or in traffic you may not need to shift up to high range till you get some flat ground or some clear flowing road.

I have not found a necessity to use this..but I know it works and I have practiced doing it for when I may need it in the future.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Axle - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 21:26

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 21:26
Hi Bantam,...Glad to hear someone that knows what I'm on about!


The old trucks!, ..Those Joey boxes Especially the four speeders twin stick, ..Gaaawd those screaming GM donks on a big climb in the middle of summer ...had sweat pouring out of ya and the brain trying to sort those cogs out....lol.

Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Apr 20, 2014 at 10:33

Sunday, Apr 20, 2014 at 10:33
I have never driven one of those old quad boxes like found in the S models.....I still shake my head and wonder who came up with that convoluted shift arrangement.

I did read the several pages of explanation on how to drive one....unders and overs for every gear, convoluted arrangements to shift both boxes that where not syncro....and don't EVER get both sticks in neutral.
I recon blokes who realy understood and could actually drive those quad boxes properly where pretty thin on the ground

But I did drive a 5 speed joey box for a short while......they where a dog of a thing, ( give me a road ranger any day) shifting from forward to reverse was a bit of a juggle, because the forward and reverse ratios where off set by about 3 gears....but they had a couple of advantages.
The 5 reverse gears & that walking spring rear end meant you could back up just about any pile of dirt a machine could push up.

As for the heat.....I have no idea why they put a heater in the R600....there was plenty of heat came thru the floor and the firewall to keep you warm in winter.


But driving one of those gave me the idea of shifting a normal 4wd between ranges while in motion.


Cheers
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Reply By: Batt's - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 21:33

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 21:33
Axel I would really love to see you do that on a steep hill over and over again you'll spend more time grinding gears and rolling backwards stabbing the brakes on while I do the sensible thing and select the appropriate gear then pull up and change when on more level ground. You might end up the one whining about how much it costs to fix a rover gearbox cost me $3,500 in 2005 not from ridiculous gear changes though, let us know how much when you're goes thanks. Jeez I can't understand why a Toyota or Nissan driver has never mentioned doing this before it's a good tip hey lol.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 21:41

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 21:41
Hi Batts, ...Read the Post again!! before you start carrying on!


I'm talking about starting off!...Not changing gears going up a hill.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:05

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:05
Not t sure where your coming from but 'struggle to take off on a hill' building up speed shifting from low to high through the gearbox that's not a gear change hhmmm and grabbing appropriate gear that's not a gear change either. So changing from low first to high first is not a gear change I see where I went wrong now I'll leave it there and do some more research on what a gear change is.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:21

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:21
So your going to just stop!!...with the van on!.. select appropriate gear, what? in the middle of the road?, good luck with that!
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:51

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:51
Hang on now you've thrown a van into this conversation you're unreal then you're really going to need to get your gearbox fixed if you treat it the way you say you are. Don't forget to let us know how much the repair bill is, chow.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 10:51

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 10:51
After 18yrs on the original gear box, and no repairs what so ever I'd say things have been looked after pretty well.

And i'll say it again I'm talking about when taking off in low range you can do the shift ive mentioned , may even get up to third or fourth gear in low until theres enough speed up to do the change to high , and then select the appropriate gear, could be first ,second ,or third depending on terrain and speed....


Axle.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 12:34

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 12:34
Maybe an engine with sufficient torque for the job at hand..Hmmmmmm
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Follow Up By: gbc - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 14:02

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 14:02
I had a little 4wd tip truck running a Perkins s2 (2.2 litre fire breather) which would simply fail to respond quite regularly in high range when taking off. The poor old thing would just stall on an incline with a load/trailer on. I got quite proficient at low range take offs then shuffling into high range on the go. The linkages were a bit loose so you needed to be a bit tender, but in the long run it was a much nicer way to treat the vehicle than racing the engine and slipping the clutch.
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Reply By: Member - DOUGLAS L - Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:01

Friday, Apr 18, 2014 at 22:01
never had a problem with my eighty series cobb, and still weav in and out of those land rover parts that scatter the country side lol
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Reply By: disco driver - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 01:48

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 01:48
Hi Axle,
Having been reading the thread here about fitting muddies a couple of sizes bigger than standard on your vehicles , I would just about guarantee that those drivers may be the ones complaining.

Fitting oversize tyres increases the overall gearing and as a result makes the start off hard work. Going from a 31" to a 33" increases the overall gearing by around 6% which would make takeoff a bit more difficult, I would think.

Just my thoughts.

Disco.
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Reply By: Member - Allan L2 - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 07:45

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 07:45
Hi Axle,
I have experienced this problem starting off on an incline when towing. My question to you, can something similar be done in late models with push button electronic shift? e.g. RC Colorado. Gear shift must be in neutral, & vehicle stationary then push button to select range. Any speed registered will block out electrical connection. Hoping there a way around this.
Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 10:58

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 10:58
G/Day mate ,The joys of electronics,To be honest I'm not sure what could be done there, .. its painful having to stop though.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 16:36

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 16:36
Don't know how you would go in a Patrol with auto hubs either, They would engage in low range.
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 17:44

Saturday, Apr 19, 2014 at 17:44
Yes Axle, it can be painful. We have some rather steep boat ramps in our area that require low range rather than a major clutch ride to start off & there always seems to be a tight turn at the top & that creates transmission bind up. The electronic systems are very hesitant to disengage with slightest bind up.
Cheers.
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Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, Apr 26, 2014 at 21:38

Saturday, Apr 26, 2014 at 21:38
Dave (NSW), Patrol auto hubs will engage whether in low or high range. The hubs don't know if H or L range is selected, they just engage when the front drive shaft is driven i.e. when in 4WD. Hence why you are supposed to back up 3m to disengage them when 2WD is selected again.
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Sunday, Apr 27, 2014 at 10:27

Sunday, Apr 27, 2014 at 10:27
blown4by,
Yes I know that, But what I meant was putting it in High or Low it's going to be in 4WD automatically, So on bitumen it will get transmission windup.
Cheers Dave
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Follow Up By: blown4by - Sunday, Apr 27, 2014 at 22:04

Sunday, Apr 27, 2014 at 22:04
Dave,
If you wanted to engage L range on bitumen but not get windup you would just leave the hubs unlocked (i.e. not in Auto) eh?
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Monday, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:01

Monday, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:01
Nissan Patrol wagon hubs have two choices Auto or Lock
Cheers Dave
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