Synthetic or Mineral Oil

Running synthetic on an older engine that maybe hasn't had it before is prolly not a good idea...and from your description of usage not really economical anyway.
Just use a good quality mineral engine oil....and change it frequently...either twice yearly or every 5000k or so ...together with a filter.
Oil is cheap....engines and engine rebuilds are not.

Cheers Keith

Yes I try to do it every 5000 ks at least my wifes ex hubby used to leave his to the very last minute and she keep on at me try to last a bit longer sort of thing

I say the same thing to her engines are expensive but oil is cheap insurance

thanks for that

as a parting shot....I don't rate Valvoline...it is BP's economy brand...BP own both Castrol and Valvoline..

Funny that, Caltex supplies the base oil to both those companies.

Cheers Dave

that is about as relivant as saying that monier supply briks to a couple of shonky builders.

face facts...valvoline is BP's cheap brand.

cheers

What does brand matter if the oil conforms to standards - as pretty much every oil does, even the no name cheapies? The main differences are in advertising - it's fact that people will pay more for "trusted" brands even where the product is virtually identical - and additives, which in most cases make very little difference.

All oils conform to some standard or another...but the telling indicator is what specifcations the oils conform to.

for example a CI4 pluss oil is better than a CI4 or a CH oil.
A CJ is a more recent rating, may be required in modern diesels, but it is argued that a CI4 pluss oil may actually be a better lubricant.

a Jaso DH1 compliance is more stringent than many of the other specifcations....there are a number of oils that will be CI4 pluss complinat but will not achieve a Jaso DH1 certification.

there are quite a number of oil specifcations...you can get a very good indication from which and how many oil specs a particular oil conforms to.

The additive package in the oil makes a great deal of difference as to how the oil performs and what specifications it complies with.

learn a little about oil specifications and it will become obvious that some oils are better or more appropriate than others.

cheers

here is an example

Gulf western premium gold engine oil 15w40 in a 5 litre typically sells for $24.95...about $5 a litre.

It is pretty typical of a generic low cost engine oil it is claimed to be

"•Versatile engine oil for petrol, LPG and light diesel engines requiring a API SL/CF4"

caltex dello 400 a top spec diesel and mixed fleet engine oil...last time I baught a 20 liter it cost me $85 about $4.25 a litre....even if you pay $100 for a 20litre that is still about $5 a litre

It is API petrol spec'ed at SJ
It is API diesel spec'ed at CI4 pluss

in addition it carries a string of other and some more stringet specs....

The gulf western while it claims to be suitable for diesels....would be a quite poor diesel oil by todays standards and a relativly poor petrol engine oil in comparison to the dello.

The dello being a much higher spec oil, will be bassed on better base oil stock and will be less dependent on additives for its basic level of performance than the gulf western.


So would you rather buy a cheap low spec oil or a high spec oil with your $5

cheers

"Learn a little about oil specs". You're a great one for trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs but thanks for the hints about getting the best value/spec oil appropriate to your use and vehicle, that's something I'd never have thought of. Good to see you're up to date with the API spec.

it aint quite as simple as that.

Oils are formulated to meet certain specs..that is what matters not the advertising hype written on the bottle.

there is a great deal of difference between oils....but buying expensive does not guarantee qulaity.


Then there are always questions about tha validity of such tests....how many vehicles did they use, what types and how many different oils did they use..and above all.....who was paying for the tests...and what was the conclusion they where looking for.

There have been number of things tested on taxis..and some of those tests have shown to prove very little that is relivent to normal motor vehicles.

taxis also have some particular things that actually work in their favour.

they do a hell of a lot of miles very quickly and most taxis have very few cold starts...busy vehicles may only stop working long enough for a driver change over....at slower times the vehicle may only be idle for 4 hours..........they travel mostly lightly loaded.......and in spite of what people may say they are in general serviced quite regularly

Oh and of course in this country taxis have a very short service life..they are sold off when they are quite young.
From memory in QLD a taxi can not be more than 5 years old.

things that realy work oil hard and cause engine wear are.
cold starts.
hot and cold cycling.
short trips where the oil does not get properly hot.
engines sitting unstarted for significant periods
and extended oil drain intervals

all issues relivent to daily driver and touring vehicles.

All issues where a higher spec oil will show advantages over a lower spec one.

cheers

And then there are the armchair experts who seem to think they know better than the credentialled experts Who should we believe:
Armchair experts?
Credentialled experts?

The difference:

Armchair experts state the obvious and quote dubious opinions they have read after a quick google.

Credentialed experts state 'real time' results of studies carried out under strict guidlelines to obtain well reasoned and factually correct findings.
Credentialled experts use knowledge they have gained during training and the knowledge they have amassed over an extended period of time.
For a study to be considered factual , well reasoned and correct, you need strict guidlelines and credentialled experts - not an opinionated googler firmly ensconced in an armchair.

I thank you for your veiled insult.

The fact is google is the most powerfull reserach tool man has ever encountered.....anybody who fails to reaslise that has their head in the sand and is doomed to ignorance.

BUT like any reference source you need to know your subject and know what you are looking for.

When someone sprouts a piece of research without any references or specifics...well it might just be a myth.

There is pleny of well credentialed reference material on the internet......none of it tells me there is no difference between oils.
In fact far from that.

If you believe that "oils is oils"..off you go...but I can tell you from well credentialed material I have read and from practical experience..ammased over an extended period of time.......oils aint oils tony.



Cheers

Oils ain't oils...... Better quality oils will provide superior results.

BUT and it's a big but.... Many ..... Sorry most will never see the benifits especially if your the average driver like 99.9% of people on this forum who does oil changes every 5-10 thousand K. If it was extreme conditions or extended oil change intervals then yes the more expensive oils are better.

Or if you plan on keeping your vehicles for the next 30 years or 900 thousand K you might see an slight improvement....... Chances are the reduced cost of using a average quality oil from one of the recognised manufactures compared with more expensive oils I would happily say buying the average quality oil is money in the bank...... But for some using a more expensive oil is a feel good thing...... And nothing but the best for their baby!

How do you check the credentials of the Google experts?
I'm sure if you search hard enough you could find that black, is in fact white!

Regardless of what googling brings up, it's still only conjecture. Google is full of armchair experts purporting to be experts. Anybody who fails to realise that has their head in the sand and is doomed to ignorance.

"When someone sprouts a piece of research without any references or specifics...well it might just be a myth". - I think I'll throw that one back at you. Veiled insults? I think I'll throw that one back at you also.

If you believe that "oils ain't oils"..off you go...but I can tell you from well credentialled material I have read and from practical experience I have amassed over an extended period of time.......oils is oils bantam.

Google is not full of anything..it is nothing more than a clever index.

You can check the credentials of the authors by both their reputations and the companies they work for..or don't.

Just like you would check the credentials of any other source of information.

In fact...google is very popular and powerfull for checking credentials.

If QLD health would have googled "Jayant Patel" prior to employing him they would have found that he had malpractice "issues" overseas.

If you want to try and dismiss all material found on the internet as conjecture..you may as well toss out every every reference book and manufacturers document you have ever owned...because most of them are now on the internet and accessable thru Google.


For those of us that know our business and have the mental capacity to read everything from advertsing, manufacturers documents, thru to court records and government legeslation, the internet is the best thing in providing access to information to ever happen.

If you are incapable of processing information, telling the difference between good and bad information, understanding what you read...or for that matter too lasy to follow up information and read the credible documents from reliable sources yourself

Don't try and tell those of us that can, that the best source of information ever is not valid.


There will always be those on internet forums that simply don't know..and are convinced that no one else possibly can either.


There are plenty of people who want to dissmis good solid facts as either "opinion" or "conjecture"..motsly because those facts disagree with their beliefs and they have nothing to back up their assertions and are incapable of making a properly reasoned and constructed argument..

Oils most certainly aint oils...and there is a hell of a lot of very credible information that shows that is the case AND all the whys and wherefores

cheers

"The fact is google is the most powerfull reserach tool man has ever encountered".

And the people who rely upon it usually have a lot of information but little knowledge.

Yep, and this forum seems to drag up most of the "experts". Poor bloke asks a simple question and everyone with a point of view jumps in, most without any real credentials, trying to outsmart the previous poster.. I stopped using this forum for my queries ages ago because of it.

I think you nailed it, though. 5000km changes of oil and filters will cut out most of the grief.

Cheers
OBJ

G'day Bigfish,
Yes I certainly agree with these 2 comments with one exception.

From an environmental & financial perspective it is not necessary to reduce the service interval on an engine. The manufacture's recommended service interval is fine unless operated under "severe operating conditions".

Of course if the engine has been neglected then it may be prudent to reduce this interval for a short period to clean up the internals.

Cheers
Stu

I don't know that it is because LE is synthetic and 400 is not is the issue.
My understanding is both are semi synthetic....but the spec sheets make no big deal about synthetic content.....they concentrate on what oil spec they meet.

there is an issue that has been raised....modern diesel spec oils that have to be compatable with diesel particlate filters and a couple of other matters with the later specs...preclude the use of a long proven oil additive.....cant remember the name for now.......something to do with phospahte or potasium contaminating the DPF.

But anyway this particular additive has been very much relied upon in high spec oils and it cant be used or used in the amounts in the post common rail spec oils.

It is argued that oils not using this additive are disadventaged by this.

Make no mistake though....dello LE is no slouch of an oil and it meets higher specs across the board than 400.

cheers

That oil test document that Slow links is quite interesting for those that are inclined to read.

among a section on base stocks this section stands out.


Lower performing base stocks were
referred to as Group I, and higher quality stocks were referred to
as Group II. In those days Group III stocks were mainly synthetic
base stocks.
But refiners continued to improve mineral oil base stock quality.
Some highly refined base stocks met the performance requirements
of Group III stocks.



read further if you are interested.
But it is very reasonable that a low spec "synthetic" oil may be inferiour to a High spec "mineral" oil.


If you are concerned about oil quality..there is only one thing that you can rely on...the oil spec that the oil meets.

cheers

Just a further commet about the " oil test" document linked.

If you realy want to know some stuff it is worth the read.

One thing you must understand..this docuent is bassed on oil analasis and conclusions bassed on the expectations of the bloke interpreting the resuts.....not on actual performance testing of the oils.

The chemical I could not remember is "Zincdithiophosphate aka ZDP"
read further if you want to know the relivence.

Many of the oils listed are not marketed in Australia and the full range of oils marketeted by particular manufacturers are not tested.....for example there are from memory 6 different oils in the Dello range marketed in Aust...similar for rimular and devlac.

On the matter of "dello 400" that is marketed by chevron/caltex worldwide....and comes up pretty well....not bad for an oil that can be baught for arround $4.25 a litre.
You can have a known proven top spec oil for about $1 more per litre than the cheap chainstore house brand ( kmx for example) brand of unknown parentage.


If you are so inclined there is heaps of very good reading like this available on the internet from credible sources.

If you are interested and you want to go further than the dismissive comments that everybdy is an expert and the like.

There is good information out there that realy is not that hard to read.

cheers

Bantam,
if you keep answering yourself you are going to break some sort of record.

I was not aware that this was a question and answer service.


It says "forum" at the top of the page.

Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.....whats in the bag? ... ears.

cheers

It is not about the ears, it is about the ear bashing.

if you don't like it or are not interested in engaging in the discussion...you don't have to read it.

This is an internet forum you know.

cheers

Oops I mean 10W30 for the petrol version!

I wholey agree that many people neglect the coolant.

Many of the modern vehicle will object if you do not run the correct concentration of coolant.

And what many will not be aware of is that the very chemicals that act as corrosion inhibiters in coolants actually become corrosive when they are spent.

Even though many of the coolants claim to be " long life" and are good for 5 or whatever years......youre by far best replacing the coolant every 2 years tops.

If the radiator has been filled with hard water, there is residual matter or arduous use the good chemicals in the coolant may be spent earlier than expected.

cheers

Petrol engine if you live in Broken Hill and you have a gas engine every so many years you have to go to Adelaide or some where else appart from Broken Hill for a new inspection of the gas unit for pink slip no one does that here

Correct concentrate of coolant is important but more critical it the type of coolant...... We carry 5 different types of coolant and in some cases we will order in OEM coolant if needed.

Concentrate ratio's relates more to life span more so then the corrosive/anti freeze/anti boil properties.

why change...well maybe the last blokes choice of oil may not have been very good.

people have all sorts of ideas about what sort of oil they should be using......bassed on what I have actually seen in used cars and some of the drivel I have seen posted on forums....and I include some of the rubbish I believed 10 years ago, before I got educated on the matter.

I would be much happier making an informed choice of my own about what oil to use.

The notion that there can be some sort of damage cause by changing to a different type or brand of oil...yeh well its drawing a pretty long bow.

making a wise and infomed oil choice can make a big difference to how a vehicle runs.

how many times to we have peolple comming on forums asking about desludging treatments or having change the oil and finding that the vehicle smokes or chews oil.

having an appropriate oil in the sunp ins one of the cheapest perfoirmance upgrades you can make to a vehicle.

cheers

Did you read my post?
I said if the mechanical condition of the vehicle I'd good, why change??
Changing the type of oil in high mileage engines can have dire results!
How do I know? 20 years of preparing used vehicles for sale!

Yes I am not sure what the shire used in the car Valvoline is what far west autos out into it when I purchased the car I have looked at the service book it does not state what make oil was used

For high milage vehicle to have dire results from a change in brand or type of oils the engine must be pretty well clapped out.

I've owned a sucsession of high milage used cars..some of them badly neglected and have found nothing but improvements from running my choice of oil.

Actually most of them I have had absoluty no idea what the previous owner was using.

BYW all of thess cars have been owned quite a bit longer than the warranty period too

cheers

As Google has made you an expert on everything, maybe we should do away with the ExplorOz Forum & start a new one called "Ask The Bantam".

allein,

Bloody half-smart iPad!!! Typed in allein and it puts in Allen :-)

Bob.

Thats ok I have same problem with spell checker I was adopted in 1955 in Glasgow but I was given a name by natural mum I think it is Gaelic not sure

I know people will argue with me about that one.....but the oil specs don't lie.

Every single oil company makes oils that they sell as though they are high spec oils.....but they make other oils..in particular the diesel spec oils that out spec and out perform their heavily sold retail packaged oils.

They all push particular features or ideas like they are important.....but in truth it is nothing but marketing puffery.

Like this whole "synthetic" thing.

What matters is how the oil is spec'ed and performs...the fact that it is synthetic or not is neither here nor there.

As I have said earlier and evidenced in the oil test document linked.


A good quality mineral base oil may well out perform a low spec "synthetic" base oil.

And that is before you consider the additive package.

As far as BP, valvoline and castrol.........20 years ago BP used to make and market some top spec products...their coarse pluss was considerd THE oil for racing engines..and they had a couple of realy good oils under the BP brand....now they own both Castrol and Valvoline.....I have not see a BP branded oil product on a shelf for a very long time and it seems to me that BP ( particularly in this country) are no longer interested in being the best at anything......they are more interested in the mass market, selling the retal products at higher margin and are happy to tell people they are wonderfull and marvelous depending on the reputation of the brands they have baught, while pockeing the difference as profit.

cheers

"Oil specs don't lie" - what oil specs are you talking about? Valvoline has a wide range of oils but even its consumer range conforms to the latest API SN/SM spec, which is pretty much the only thing the great majority of us need to note, along with the temperature range and regular oil/filter changes obviously.

Of course all the oil companies have a range of oils

Compare product for product and spec for spec and what you get for your money.
And you have to look past the API specs to see what other specs the particular oil is acredited for.

I've done the exercise a couple of times.....comparing like products from a number of manufacturers....neither valvoline nor castrol stack up against their major competitors.

Ask yourself, why the same company would have two brands in the same market.

cheers

So when did BP buy out Valvoline? According to company data Valvoline is owned by Ashland Inc and has been for a long time.

The reason why companies offer a range of brands and products is obvious - they can sell into different markets/demographics, cash in on brand recognition, and provide products for different purposes - in this case normal use, heavy duty, extreme, specialist (racing etc).

As a few have already said or implied already the average motorist does not need a premium product for normal use. Some people are happy to pay extra for "peace of mind" and that's their prerogative but cheaper, properly specced oil will do the job just as well in most cases.

I doubt anyone will be put off Valvoline as a result of your comment but in any case they should simply look at the detailed product specs and convince themselves. Valvoline is right up with the latest API spec, and conforms to others as well. The vast majority of us need only concern ourselves with the API.

well, it's your own bloody fault mate - you did ask and all you've done is upset everybody.

LOL

Allein,
you asked a sensible question and I guess you will come to the conclusion that suits you, as for this Steve person, well everyone, make up their own minds.

just trying to put a light hearted slant on the frenzy, that's all pal but seems you've had a humour by-pass.

What has happened to this place?

...at least the name's appropriate

Steve,
sorry about that, I am a bit slow in that I missed the LOL.

no worries mate - you've had a big workout on this one

;)

Well said, and I,m in the business of manufacturing lubricants but refrained from entering into the tirade from uninformed experts...
I could suggest exactly what you should use but just Google it.

:):)

Now that is some thing I did not know so again thank you