Patrol diesel "coming to an end"

Submitted: Friday, May 23, 2014 at 22:03
ThreadID: 107922 Views:4807 Replies:8 FollowUps:38
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http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/large-4x4/nissan/patrol/patrol-diesel-coming-to-an-end-43693?R=43693&Cr=2&surl=aHR0cDovL2VkaXRvcmlhbHN5c3RlbS5jYXJzYWxlcy5jb20uYXUvRGVza3RvcERlZmF1bHQuYXNweD9Ocz1wX0RhdGVBdmFpbGFibGVfRGF0ZVRpbWUlN0MxJk49Mjk4MSs0Mjk0OTY3MjgxKzQyOTQ5NjcyNzkmVGFiSUQ9MjIwODc4NiZRcGI9MSZzaWQ9MTNENUJGMTBENUZEJk5uZT0xNQ..

No replacement engine in sight for Nissan's biggest off-roader, despite local lobbying

Nissan Australia appears certain to spend years without a diesel-powered Patrol SUV in its line-up.

And the solution to the problem may only come as India’s new vehicle market accelerates and provides economies of scale for a right-hand drive large diesel four-wheel drive wagon business case.

New Nissan Australia boss Richard Emery has confirmed to motoring.com.au the Y61 Patrol – which launched here in 1997 and was dropped from most global markets by 2013 – “is coming to an end”, and there is no prospect of a diesel engine for its successor, the Y62, any time soon.

The luxurious Y62 was launched only with a V8 petrol engine because it was primarily developed for the Middle East and the USA, where diesel has little cut-through.

Despite bullish sales projections it has failed to fire in Australia, leaving the Toyota LandCruiser to dominate the segment because diesel engines are overwhelmingly preferred by large SUV buyers.

The Y61 was retained to give Nissan SUV buyers a diesel option, but its age and encroaching emissions legislation will soon kill it, although it will survive through to 2015 at least.

With the new Pathfinder available only in petrol and petrol-electric hybrid forms, the most likely source for a Nissan diesel 4WD wagon larger than an X-TRAIL will be the mooted Toyota Prado rival based on the next-generation Navara one-tonne ute.

Nissan’s global product boss Andy Palmer told motoring.com.au at the New York motor show that a Cummins V8 diesel was a possibility for the Y62 Patrol as it was being developed for the next Titan pick-up truck.

But Emery, who met with Palmer last week in Japan and was briefed on Nissan’s future model plans, said a diesel Patrol was still years away and may not come until the next generation.

“The only assurance I have from him (Palmer) is that he is well aware we need a diesel for Australia and that we would remain desirous of that and the next Patrol is probably not due for another five or six years,” Emery said.

“He understands that Patrol is an iconic brand for us in Australia and it is important for us. Irrespective of the volume it’s an important stake in the ground. So we would like to have a strong Patrol business and that means it needs to be diesel.

“I think he understand that. He also needs to find that diesel solution for other markets and not just for us as the world goes on.”

And that is where India comes in, as affluence grows in the world's most populous right-hand drive vehicle market.

“The fact India is coming on stream means there is hope for right-hand drive markets because cars are going to get developed in right-hand drive from day one, something which was drifting away over the last four or five years.

“As Indians become more affluent, their choice of product line-up is going to broaden, so it doesn’t matter if India only says ‘oh yeah we might take some Patrols, we don’t need many’. But then their ‘not many’ is probably a lot compared with what we would take. I think things will shift.”

Once Y61 finishes, Emery made it clear the Y62 Patrol petrol wagon would not be dropped from the line-up -- even if it comprised only a few sales per month – because of its image value for Nissan.

He said some other slow selling models would be culled though.

“Sometimes… there’s a global car designed and it doesn’t fit the context of the Australian circumstance,” Emery said.

“So admit it doesn’t fit – like an $85,000 Patrol that doesn’t have diesel or sat-nav.

“We'll be honest with yourself that it is not going to beat LandCruiser, but it might do 20 cars a month and that’s a good result – or whatever the result needs to be.”

Sounds like Nissan are throwing in the towel for large diesel 4x4's. What a pitty we never got organised with our once thriving car manufacturing industry to make a 4x4 here to export all around the world.
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Reply By: Ross M - Friday, May 23, 2014 at 22:20

Friday, May 23, 2014 at 22:20
Interesting about Nissan, "Throwing in the Towel".
Nissan seem to be having a horror year or two. They have more models than a lolly store but quality seems poor.

Navaras being sold with bent chassis from new. At least 3 with bent chassis and Claims against dealers and Nissan. Nissan and other authorities investigating to try and find out how many Navara's are have bent chassis. Some detected after a period of use and others found bent before 1000km.

Some rural NSW Dealers incompetent and shining bad light on Nissan.

A few Pathfinder gearboxes failing or giving serious trouble is also of great concern.

Overall Nissan sales in Australia are extremely low and the current market sales figures are the lowest for years.
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Follow Up By: Road Warrior - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:57

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:57
Far out Ross that's pretty bad.

They didnt have a good run with their staple small car either, the Tiida. Funny name, even funnier styling, which buyers didnt warm to.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 20:30

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 20:30
I always smile when car companies say, You asked for "X" feature or design etc.
I have never heard of anyone being asked by any compny what they want.
Car companies always tell us what we asked for is what they supplied, but are really telling us what we want/will get.
Nissan seem to have made far too many assumptions in Australia as the buyers just don't want there vehicles very often.
Combined with Nissan's poor attitude towards customers, it appears the WORD has got about. They are all over you like a rash at sales time and impossible to find afterwards or if problems arise. Strange attitude that!

I believe in the last sales period they sold about 1/4 of what they used to sell.

Perhaps they should start listening to their customers, because telling them what they want, definitely isn't working well.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 22:09

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 22:09
Its a pity Nissan wasn't bought by a more outward thinking company that Renault some years back. What do the French do well ?? Croissants maybe !! Michael
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:22

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:22
G/Day Ross M....".They are all over you like a rash at sales time and impossible to find afterwards or if problems arise"....What's so different about that to other companys??..Lol.


Axle.

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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:27

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:27
G/Day Michael," What do the French do well"?....UMMM,We could take that somewhere!!.:.))
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 05:51

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 05:51
Pity. It is simply amazing that the numbskulls at Nissan can't fit that 3.0 V6 Navara diesel into the GU. What a winner that would be. With a 7 speed box that could be as close as it gets to the perfect 4wd.

Now, Toyota will be able to extend their high price, poor value strategy with less competition.

So Nissan are happy with a few to 20 Y62 sales a month. Good luck getting spares in Australia in a few years with those explosive sales figures.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 08:49

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 08:49
Could not agree more BooBook.

Its going on for 4 years now (how time flies) since I made the judgement that Nissan would not make such a Patrol and under the post "The last white Dinosour" I brought the last ever petrol GU.

As long as you accept feeding it, it has been a sensational car but it won't be that long before I will need an upgrade.

Back then the 200 series competitor was minimum $85k (Petrol Patrol $49k) but yesterdays car-guide had an add for a GXL 200 for $80k drive away, i.e. cheaper despite 4 years inflation.

Also back then Nissan used the argument about enough sales to be economic , but in this press release they seem to say its important just to have a presence it that market segment even if it only means a few sales.

I bet we could sell more than a "Few sales" of a 3lt V6 diesel GU Patrol just to members of these sites alone !
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 11:15

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 11:15
On paper, that motor is probably the best they have in terms of a power and economy mix. I haven't heard any stories of calamity associated with it either. Therefore you have to question their sanity for not actually using it in more models. There is no question that the Patrol is an iconic 4wd. Nissan's petrol only decision in Australia makes them seem like a very stupid company to me. I have owned a Patrol and a Pathfinder in the past and was quite happy with both, but they have lost me and who knows how many others.
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Follow Up By: Mick T3 - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 12:02

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 12:02
I phoned a Nissan dealer six months ago asking about a diesel Patrol. He described the motor as an "older agricultural motor" then seemed happy when I thanked him for his advice and said good-bye.

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Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:31

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:31
Mick T3
Nissan dealers, in fact any dealer, will tell you what they think you want to hear.

Did he mean the TD42 of the Renault V6 3Litre?????? The dealer may not know the difference and says what he is told to say by Nissan folklore squad.
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Reply By: Member - Patto (SA) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 16:27

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 16:27
If Nissan were truly interested in the local market, other than lip service, they would have shown a better response to the problems with the 3.0 Lt motor and possibly replaced it with the V6 Navara motor or something similar
I guess we are only small fish in a big pond and have to put up with the crap treatment Nissan want to hand out

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:20

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:20
Buy your 2nd hand Y61 and get someone (Brunswick or similar) to stick a V8 diesel into it

worth the $$$$

Re3gards

Geoff
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:28

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 17:28
Get a second hand Patrol and buy a crashed V6 Navara and transplant it's engine.
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Reply By: Member - Silverchrome - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 18:13

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 18:13
The whole motoring landscape in Australia will change considerably from 2017 when all local production ceases. According to the motoring editor in local paper GM in USA has told GMH (Aust) they can have any models they choose in RHD. Apparently they have already indicated to US chiefs they want to bring in the Chev Silverado factory built in RHD. They (GMH Aus) have quoted a figure of $75,000 as the price in Aus for the top of the range 6.6litre diesel LTZ with 6 speed Allison auto transmission, exhaust brake etc etc. And towing capacity of 4500kg. If this eventuates it will blow the Landcruiser out of the water for many buyers who want a large tow rig with reliable backup from GMH dealers across Australia.

But 2017 is also about the time of the release of the 300 series LC. With the 5% tariff gone from Jap produced vehicles and the competition from the Silverado (and maybe other large diesel 4x4s) it’s not beyond possibilities that the 300 series will be upgraded with more features and sell for less than the current 200 series. If GMH bring in the Silverado so may Ford bring in the F trucks and Chrysler the Dodge Ram in RHD also.

So interesting times ahead for us Aussie 4x4 buyers (and all vehicle buyers).


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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:47

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:47
Why should things change?
I am not aware of any 4WD’s made locally.
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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 20:01

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 20:01
Did you read the above Dennis?????
What part don't you understand?
AS part of ceasing local production the 5% tarriff comes off Jap cars (probably $3K-$4 drop in LC prices); increased competition with imported 4x4s will put pressure on prices etc etc. Of course things will change. Everyone knows the LC has little commpetition in its class...so Toyota can charge basically whatever it likes at the moment. My point is if the above eventuates Toyota will most likely pass on the drop in tarriffs as well as adopt a more competitive pricing policy... Good times ahead for new 4x4 buyers in my opinion.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:16

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:16
Seen a couple of Toyota Tundras driving around. RHD and all. Not sure if factory or local conversion. 5.6 lt petrol but could quite easily accommodate a V8 diesel.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 08:37

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 08:37
Yes Pop the Tundra is another one. If Toyota start to lose market share to the big three USA trucks Toyota could easily decide to bring the Tundra in to compete. I have only ever come across petrol Tundras though but I am sure they could build a diesel version if they don't already have one. The ones I have seen were RHD converted in Australia and that puts their price up to the $130K area. Thats the problem at the moment.

Certainly interesting times ahead for Australian vehicle buyers....especially post 2017. New car prices in Australia are currently the cheapest they have been in 2 decades (in real terms) and in my opinion they are about to get cheaper. Great times for consumers.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 13:44

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 13:44
I wouldn't count on a price drop on any Landcruiser due to tariff reductions. Toyota will probably pocket every cent of that.

The Sahara has already gone up about $18,000 since the 200 came out and a Sahara at $120,000 has less goodies than a 200 in the US for about $70,000 Aust dollars and Toyota Australia basically sell every Landcruiser allocated to Australia. Most buyers already have to wait for them to come off the boat for delivery.

So if they sell every one they can get, why bring the price down? The only thing that will make Toyota drop the price and or add value is competition in a similar market and the Patrol is the closest thing to that.

Apart from a few people who place towing capacity above everything else, Landcruisers aren't in the same market as those US barges.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 15:32

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 15:32
Yep Boobook
I agree I can’t see people rushing into those American barges (as you call them).
They are good for towing 5th wheelers – but are a big for most 4 wheel drivers.
You can't get them down a lot of the tracks where we go fishing.
I don't understand the logic that say Toyota's sales will drop if there is a 5% tariff cut making them cheaper.
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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 17:41

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 17:41
Boobook I think you may be surprised about the substitution of the USA trucks for the 200 series. Ever since I have taken an interest in the Silverado (about 3 years ago now) I have stopped to talk to the owners of every one I have seen on the road towing a van. I discovered something interesting ….every one of them without exception had previously owned a 200 series. Yes they are big but majority of the estimated 70 to 100,000 grey nomads on the road in winter don’t drive down narrow tracks. They tour Australia free camping as we do travelling on black top and formed gravel roads. I for one have sold my 200 series and am buying a Silverado. The Silverado is more fuel efficient when towing than a 200 series. When at home in suburbia we have the wife’s car to commute to shops, appointments etc. The Silverado (as was the 200 series) will be used for open road driving only and towing.
And Dennis you state:

“I don't understand the logic that say Toyota's sales will drop if there is a 5% tariff cut making them cheaper”

I did not say that at all Dennis. I said the price may drop IF GMH go ahead with their current plan to bring in the Chev Silverado in RHD form and sell for $75,000 (their own figure). Under this scenario I believe Toyota would not only pass on the tariff reduction but also drop their huge margins. The point I make is that for many they would be substitutes (as they are for us). But why pay $85, 000 for a poverty pack GXL 200 series when for $75,000 you could buy a new Silverado (post 2017) that has more features, a bigger more powerful engine, more fuel efficient, exhaust brakes, greater towing capacity, full leather etc etc. In my opinion many would switch to the Silverado without hesitation. Many are doing this right now when they are paying $130,000 for a RHD converted Silverado. How much more demand would there be if they were priced at $75,000. This is my point.

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:26

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:26
I agree! Interesting and exciting times ahead in a few years ! Just when I'll be retiring !! Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 19:59

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 19:59
If I ever see a Silveraro on the road I'll ask them why they bought it.

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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:24

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:24
A drop from $130,000 to $75,000 – I’ll believe it when I see it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:57

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:57
Do you understand the difference between the 2 figures Dennis? The $130K is the all up cost to buy a Silverado at retail prices in USA, ship to Australia, pay all import duties, taxes, etc get it converted to RHD ($38,000), then pay stamp duty, etc on the marked up cost etc. The $75000 is the price quoted to a motoring magazine by a GMH spokesperson of what the vehicle would sell for in Australia if manufactured in USA in RHD and shipped to Austlalia in large volumes straight from factory to be retailed through GMH dealerships (no middlemen). That is why there is a huge difference in the final price. Makes sense to me.

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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 21:41

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 21:41
And pigs might fly – based on your figures it doesn’t make sense to me - the difference is $55,000 not $38,000
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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 21:56

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 21:56
I think I have explained it comprehensively Dennis. I am sorry you don't get it or understand it for whatever reason. This is a post about the Patrol and I did not expect my original comment to create controversy on someone eles's thread. So I will not be making any further comment on this topic.
Signing off....
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Reply By: DBN05 (tas) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 18:56

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 18:56
Evening road warrior,

they are getting rid of the old 4.2td world wide'

google Nissan pickup in south Africa and you will find that they have just put them on the market in a new pickup.

Harvey (DBN05 )
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 21:36

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 21:36
Just thinking about South Africa, I cant imagine people who need a 4x4 to get around in the South African bush driving around in a leather seated Y62. So if you want a wagon there , Nissan wont be for you! Nissan will be severely limiting there options in that area! Michael
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Follow Up By: DBN05 (tas) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 22:40

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 22:40
Evening Michael,

the 4x4er in S.A. love their bush driving as much as we do and like us they have to drive what is offered tho them, then they improve them to great 4x4's even if it means driving around in leather seats. Just look at the way our market is heading???
They also have a great web site that have members from all over the world and I dare say have more members and visitors to their page than people who live in Moss Vale (before you tell me that I have not been there or know where it is I used to drive train through there on the way to Goulburn and many a time I stayed in the railway barracks at Moss Vale and enjoyed a quite soft drink at the local shop ) have a look at their sit 4x4community.co.za
I have never been to S.A. so I'm going on their website but I'm sure they are looking at our site too, after all we all love our Patrols and other lesser brands.

DBN05 Tas

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Reply By: Alsub - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:14

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:14
Just repower with a real engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EwI1Z7wrf0 a real engine .......


Your Datsun will run like dream.


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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:55

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:55
Its hard to believe that Nissan or Renault, whoever is running the show, cant find a suitable diesel engine. There are plenty of companies that would be lining up to supply Nissan with an engine that would do the job reliably! Its obvious and history shows that Nissan cant build a diesel engine that is any good! Michael
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 22:01

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 22:01
Another point is that you would think Nissan would try and save the Y61 as long as they could. Sales I think are still pretty good as the Y62 is an obvious failure. A new Y61 still looks great despite its age, driving out of the showroom! Many are saying that even with a diesel engine, the Y62 wouldn't compete with the older Y61 technology! Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 17:07

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 17:07
Michael I'll bet the Nissan bean counters can't wait to get rid on it and use it's production line for some high volume line.

As far as I can see the Y61 3.0 Patrol is selling about 250 a month here, say 50 a month in NZ and say another 100 or so a month in South Africa. Then there are a few markets like Philippines, Middle East ( in Petrol and diesel 4.2 only) What's that? 1000 per month. That can't be profitable.

There must be a market for brand new 4.2 GU imports from the Middle East if you could do it though. Sadly I don;t think it would be possible.

Get a job with a oil company in Saudi for 2 years, earn big bucks, pay no tax and bring your brand new 4.2 GU back to Aust. There's an idea. And with it being LHD you could take lines up tracks like no one else does.



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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:17

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:17
Boobook ! Nice to see some sales figures, not bad for an old clunker of 25 plus in real terms. If Rover can keep the Defender going, Im sure the Y61 could survive a little longer. And yes is probably about profit and producing another trendy car they think they can turn a profit. Agreed about the v6 Navara engine, must be ok for emissions if it's in the Navara. Regards, Michael .
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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:46

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:46
We realy doo have to realise a coupe of things.

Australia is a small volume market......regardless of what the manufacturer PR spin may say....building vehicle specifically for Australia is a thing of the distant past.

What was it ..60 vehicles a month.....hell there are single dealers in the US that would sell that many 4wds.

There are quite a number of market sectors that more or less one manufacturer has on their own in australia .....Toyota no longer compete in the small 4wd market....Suzuki has that sector more or less on their own.

Isuzu more or less dominates the small to medium truck market.....Toyota not having competed in that market for decades...yeh they still sell a few little dynas...but not a saussage in the medium trucks.......there is a bit of Hino about.....but Isuzu has it more or less on its own.


Its not unreasonable to expect that more manufacturers will withdraw from secors that they do not compete well in and put their efforts into a narrower and narrower range of models.

This is what happens when thongs are managed according to the paretto principle....marketing gets narrower and narrower and we end up with less and less choice.





Most of the 4wd vehicle formats are old and past their use by date.....they have all been beefed, up bloated out and at their engineering limits and still people are looking for modifications because they are not fit for purpose.

Its about time we had some new, engineered from the ground up models.

As for the Tundra...there are a few of them comming in new as LHD conversions.

There has been some discussion about there being no diesel model....the cummins was touted as a posibility...but again its an american model and the diesel does not look like being a reality.







The other thing is....I know lots don't want to hear it...but the advantages of diesel are not what they where.

Diesel for most of us is now more expensive than petrol.
We have a new and still unproven technology that is still having problems in common rail.
Like for like, capacity for capacity, weight for weight petrol still makes more power by far.
AND
While the common rial diesel is definitely having issues, the current, electronic fuel injected, variable valve timimg, petrol engines are at a peak of their effeiciency and reliability....and at a low in tems of cost of ownership.

Back in the 80's my brother baught the only new car he has ever owned..a diesel MQ patroll.....he ran that vehicle till only a couple of years ago.
At the time it was a no brainer for him.....he did more or less nothing but fill the fuel tank and change the oil...and diesel was cheap...like 30% cheaper than petrol.

The new petrol engines have that sort of reliability...ya fill it with fuel and change the oil....maybe change the spark plugs once a year.


A bloke I know, was looking at a new ute a few years back...he runs a business and knows exactly what his vehicles do.....they are all continuously vehicle logged and he accounts for every cent and every KM........he did the maths and the diesel just did not add up...by the time you pay an extra $2000 for a diesel option, have to oil change twice as often , pay 3 times as much for an oil filter and the fuel is dearer....then there is a real chance of copping a $4000 to $8000 bill if you get a dose of bad fuel .........he baught petrol...it was a no brainer.

Yeh I can cetianly undestand why non europeans could not care less about diesel in small vehicles.

cheers
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:38

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:38
It's old school thinking that service intervals a lower in diesels. Mine are 10k and 12k and the oil filters are on the same rack at Repco as all the others. I've been running 2 crd's for the past 6 years and haven't noticed much difference in service costs. I notice a significant difference in mpg and range that's for sure...it's good getting less than 10l/100kms and 800kms + out of a 65litre tank on a trip. It really adds up the more kms you do. As for paying more at the start, you get that back at the end in higher resale, although some brands like VW are dearer for the petrol models.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:30

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:30
My service cost on a V8 diesel is no different than my sons V6 petrol and both at intervals of 10,000k.
The torque of at diesel at low revs, fuel economy, and longevity are the reason I have a diesel
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 22:01

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 22:01
Some of the common rail diesels are still running 5000Km service intervals.
Even if the diesel service interval is pushed out to 10 000 KM.

many of the petrol engines are running 15 000 and 20 000 Km service intervals.

now to the cost of filters and oil.

The last filter I baught for my petrol hilux cost me under $5...for a reputable brand....the filter for my diesel cost me about $16...and yes they are on the same shelf.

Most diesels have a lot more oil in the sump than petrols.....my 2.7 liter petrol takes about 4.5 litres...the diesel takes arround 6 litres.

If you are buying oil retail...diesel oil generally costs more than the oil speced for the equavalent petrol car.
Its all the same for me I use the same oil in both.

If you are paying for dealer services...well the price you pay has not a thing to do with the cost of parts and consumables

a simple oil change in my petrol costs me about $35, in my diesel it costs me arround $45

Then we get back to comparing apples with apples.
a v8 is not a v6.

and the playing field is biased toward diesel these days because they are turboed.
If the petrol vehicle was turboed it would be making a hell of a lot more power and probably running more efficiently.

In motor racing turbo vehicles are rated as 1.4 times that of a normally aspirated vehicle.

as for the drivability....with variable valve timimg, the modern petrol motors can produce tractor like torque down low under 2000 rpm and be making realy good power at 6000.


as for the longevity...well the old diesels where known to run 300 000 400 000 Km..some of them on the original injectors.

Many of the well looked after petrol motors will do that these days

We are seeing some of the common rail diesels going cheap or basicly beeing scrapped because a fuel system rebuild is worth nearly the value of the 5 year old vehicle.

If you are a habitual new car owner and get your vehicle dealer serviced, there will probaly be no difference...but if you are a second hand buyer or you keep you vehicles long enough to buy tyres for it.
the diesel is not looking such a good buy.


cheers
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FollowupID: 816491

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 23:28

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 23:28
I keep my cars for 300-400k. I asked a bloke at a garage near Darlington Point what fuel economy his newish diesel Hilux was getting and he said 13l/100km. I thought bugger that. I've been told the 4.2 Patrol gets around 12l/100km as well. In my book those figures are no good and not worth driving a diesel, plus they are noisy and slow. In that situation, I agree with your summation. However, my Jeep Grand with the Merc 5 cylinder gets 8-9l/100 km and is very powerful. That's 4-5 litres better every 100kms...4000-5000litres every 100,000kms or around $18-$20,000 (at least) for the life of the car. And that's measured against a diesel Hilux not a petrol. Mate, I'll pay the extra $10 for the service since I've used 400-500 litres less fuel getting to that 10k service.
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FollowupID: 816499

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, May 26, 2014 at 20:38

Monday, May 26, 2014 at 20:38
Oh I forget the other reason lots of 4wders and good old country boys baught diesels in the past.

They where pretty simple things... nothing went wrong with them...there was no electrics required to run the engine once started and as long as the air intake remained sealed and in fresh air, the engines would run fully submerged with little or no issues.

Well all that has gone now......a diesel is no more aquatic advantaged than a well designed petrol motor...they have no less electrics than a similar petrol motor.


as for the variability between various diesels...yep seems that are not all created equal.....some modern diesels may come out ahead of a similar petrol powered package...others most certainly may not.

Cast your mind back only a little while in the various development phases of petrol motors......some where particularly thursty while very similar competitive vehicles where far more economical.
I know a bloke who had a mitsubishi dual cab ute.....he complained that it was a bit thursty...he did not realise how thursty till he traded it for a Prado.

Step forward to the current time when the current generation of petrol motors is pretty mature...there is not much seperating various competitive products.

It has taken petrol motors 25 years to recover from the introduction of polution requirements.
I wonder how long it will take the diesel motor to recover from a similar major change.

cheers
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FollowupID: 816544

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 12:23

Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 12:23
God Bantam I haven’t seen so much waffle in a long time.
I’d go into depth as to why diesels are used by the large miners, trucking companies, heavy machinery, tractors, large 4WDs etc but it would be a waste of time, and anyway this thread is too old to be of further interest to anyone – including me.
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FollowupID: 816570

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 22:42

Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 22:42
There is a world of difference between the reasons for diesels being used in heavy transport and diesels used in light weight pasenger cars.

the use of diesels in heavy transport has very little to do with small diesels in pasenger cars.

The americans realy like their diesels in their heavy transport....but they seem to be pretty well uninterested in diesels in pasenger cars or 4wds....there are very good reasons for this.

cheers

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FollowupID: 816609

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 22:54

Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 22:54
Probably because the price of petrol in the US has historically been extremely cheap. Contrast that with Europe where fuel costs a bomb. That's why Europe has a huge diesel presence even in passenger cars. I drove a diesel VW Passat a few hundred kms on the weekend... 4l/100kms. An amazing car, hard to fault.
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FollowupID: 816611

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 23:32

Tuesday, May 27, 2014 at 23:32
The europeans have historicaly tolerated much smaller and lower powered vehicles than australia.

They sold the MK 3 cortina with a 1300, 1600 and 2 litre motor, where in Australia we had the same vehicle with a 2 liter a 3.3 litre and a 4.1 litre.

we live neither in europe or america.

We do not have the volume or quaity of diesel as deliveered than europe does.

AND we have diesel that costs more than petrol.

As I said...the balance and the economics of the reative fuels in australia has changed and continues to change.

In 1990....for a lot of people a diesel 4wd was a no brainer.

Similarly back in the 90's running LPG in a high milage vehicle was a no brainer......these days the reasn to convert to LPG are nowhere near as strong.

These days diesel and petrol is a much closer run thing than it was in the past.

cheers
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FollowupID: 816612

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