Bio Diesel seems to have disappeared???.Good idea gone west!

Submitted: Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:32
ThreadID: 107933 Views:2708 Replies:11 FollowUps:12
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Ol Mate from years ago rocked up to my place the other day , driving his most faithful 4by of all time a GQ Nissan non turbo 4.2l..lol. 600,000kms no worrys..To my supprise this thing has been running on straight cooking oil for the last four years, thinned downed to no exact measurment of petrol and then strained through a very fine filter, as long as it looks thin enough there abouts he reckons,(" must be doing something right I'm thinking"), A little bit of filter trouble now and then but not enough to abandon the exercise!,.. Makes me think what could be done as far as cheaper options for diesel fuel alternatives. None of us know what our engines could run on really!, just what the the big brother oil companys supply and tell us.

Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:49

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 19:49
The old diesels would/will run on just about anything. Now with the new common rail things they fail just driving past a bio diesel bowsers.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 20:28

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 20:28
Your not wrong!.


Cheers.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:08

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:08
Gday Axle
I asked about "krill oil " to be used in diesels some time back , but the moderators didn't think it was a fare question and deleted my post.
Muzbry
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Reply By: Member - blackbird1937 - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:25

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 21:25
Hi Axle. Your good post reminds me of a neighbouring farmer who for about 5 years up until 12 years ago was running his non-turbo tractor on the diesel he made out of the second hand oil he was getting at several fish and chip shops. The tractor would be working in the paddock smelling like a fish and chip shop, but still worked and pulled ok. Since I sold my farm and moved away I have lost touch but he is still probably working the tractor on fish and chip oil. I watched him make the diesel several times but have forgotten the quantities and what he mixed with the oil.
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Reply By: Bob R4 - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 22:10

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 22:10
Hi Axle,
From memory I think I recall reading that Rudolph Diesel designed his motor to run on peanut oil, and it took the enterprising petroleum companies to invent a fuel called distillate or diesoleum to move in on the market.
I did several hundred thousand Km's in my old 2.5lt Hi-Ace using biodiesel I made from old cooking oil scrounged from the local take-aways. Used to cost about 28c per litre, and I could make a 200 ltr batch on Sat arvo while mowing the lawn or other chores one is required to do. The raw waste oil cost nothing, and only required 10% methanol and caustic soda or potash for the reaction. Only waste product was glycerine which had some use as a cleaner and tyre cleaner/shiner, and unused glycerine was put on the compost heap to break down.
Biodiesel could be spilt on the lawn without enduring consequences. The grass usually regrew in about a month.
Motor loved it, with quiet running, smooth, and depending on whether oil came from chicken shop or fish and chip shop, you could smell its origin.
Was a little disconcerting when stopped at the traffic lights on the way home from work if you were hungry and had a tail wind. The smell of the exhaust increased the hunger pangs.
Work changed, and travelling reduced to the point where it was pointless making it further, particularly as the second vehicle (Pajero) gets a tummy ache from it.
I think the shear volume required to become a reality is the biggest stumbling block to bio-diesel becoming a commodity, along with engine design.

My thoughts,
Bob
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:00

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:00
Your right Bob,...Engine design would have to change all over again,


Not going to happen!.



Axle.
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 23:08

Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 23:08
A lot (probably most now) of the used cooking oil from Take away shops is used in Bio diesel production in Australia and Singapore where it is re exported to the EU.

To buy the cooking oil from the companies which pick it up from the Fast Food places (and give it a quick clean up to remove the floating bits), costs about 90c/L. Commercial biodiesel plants as stated above split the triglycerides ( cooking/ vegetable oil/ fat) is concerted to the three individual fatty acids and glycerol molecules. Someone who remembers their chemistry better than me will be able to provide more details.
Because of the mandates that the EU has applied to minimum Biodiesel use, used cooking oil has increased in price considerably, all you are really saving by doing it yourself now is the excise.
The organisation I work for used to use approx 5 Million litres a year in animal feed, EU biodiesel mandates have now made it "too" expensive.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 09:50

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 09:50
I forgot to add, it has nothing to do with big oil companies. Diesel made from recycled cooking oils are simply more expensive than diesel made from crude oil.
If it wasn't for government mandates forcing people to use Biofuels and or subsidies, there would be no Biofuel industry anywhere anywhere in the world. There is only one biofuel plant that I am aware of in Australia, near Woodonga.
True the oil exploration and refining companies don't like competition though.
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:53

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:53
There's also a plant near Maitland.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 13:20

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 13:20
I think the Maitland/ Rutherford plant crushes seeds for vegetable oils (cottonseed, sunflower seeds, canola etc), I don't think it produces biodiesel, but I may be wrong.
I was wrong though when I failed to mention the other three biofuel plants being the ethanol plants at Sarina, Dalby and Nowra, but they don't produce Biodiesel.
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 16:17

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 16:17
The Rutherford plant might have changed but a few years ago I used to run back to Byron Bay after unloading Glucose at Beenleigh to pick up used cooking oil and deliver to Rutherford.
Cheers Dave
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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 07:33

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 07:33
The local oil companies absorbed most of the production to add it to diesel to replace the sulphur to give diesel enough lubricity.
Also removed the "competition".
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Follow Up By: Hoyks - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:34

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 18:34
I heard rumors that Caltex Vortex diesel contained 5-10% biodiesel, but couldn't find out for certain.

Looking at the MSDS though, I wouldn't be surprised if the 10% of 'ingredients determined to be non-hazardous' isn't biodiesel.

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Reply By: allein m - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 09:29

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 09:29
lots of ideas in the motoring field just seem to disappear over time I think the big oil companies and the motoring giants buy them out they are after dominance in the market place

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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 10:33

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 10:33
As others have said times and the economics change.

My brotherinlaw still brews his bio diesel in the back yard, and he has got pretty good at it.

There is a local tree lopper/ earth moving contractor that has been running a clean new vegy oil and diesel brew in all his diesel motors for years.....but not everybody has access to cheap suitable vegy oil in volume.

There are a lot of people who talk about running straight vegy oil, or short cut the biodoesel breweing process....both can be a bit dodgy for the engine or fuel system.

There are people in europe who have been running common rail diesels on biodiesel for quite some time..but they are very particular about their process and their source oil.

Unprocessed cean vegy oil has to be a suitable type or there can be problems,

If you don't wash any remnant ethanol, glycrin or caustic from the fuel.....a step in the process that some short circuit...or your seperation and drying is not good.....that is not real real flash for old style diesels and cretainly not good for common rails.....apparantly.


One of the brotherinlaws early batches was not real good......seemed he had some diesel bug in the tank and it went thru the system like a dose of salts......the thaught was the residual moisture and nutrient in the not quite properly processed biodiesel gave the bug a feast.


The other thing...regardless of the other issues...you have to have the time to collect your waste oil, process it, then dispose of the waste products and empty drums...

Not to mention....conducting the "Higly dangerous industrial process" and the sorage of large quantities of waste oil and fuel on private suburban properties.....well at least that is the way many people view it

It realy does take some time...that makes it a non starter for most people.

OH and then there was the tax department's sabre rattling about wanting to tax home made biodiesel.


I recon these days there are a lot of people keeping quiet about their bio diesel activities and guarding their surces of cheap waste oil.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:08

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 11:08
I remember the Tax Departments idea back then,...BLUDGERS!!!!!.


Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Graeme - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 10:37

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 10:37
No different to Coles and Woolworths who buy out the local supermarket in small towns. They do not make a profit there but it gives them total dominance in that retail sector. The local farmers who used to supply the small supermarkets and where both sides benefited from the arrangement, then have to deal with the giant chain and they will only get much less than dealing locally.
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Reply By: SDG - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 14:20

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 14:20
http://www.rense.com/general67/ford.htm
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Reply By: kiwicol - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 15:59

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 15:59
Hydrogen is the way to go.
I have installed a hydrogen generator to my 4.2 92 GQ diesel with 400,000 on the clock.
I have gone from about 13 lts to the 100ks to about 6ltrs to the 100
The unit cost $350 and I fitted it myself.
The engine sounds better and have increased my HP.
These units will fit any engine new or old.

Col
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Follow Up By: pepper2 - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 19:15

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 19:15
Any details on hydrogen generator Kiwicol????
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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:44

Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 20:44
Hey pepper2 just google hydrogen generator

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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Monday, May 26, 2014 at 09:22

Monday, May 26, 2014 at 09:22
Hi Kiwicol,
I met a guy with a hydrogen generator on his 4x4 years ago and I remember him being very impressed with it. I was always going to follow it up but never got round to it. I have googled it and there are many results. Can you advise the type, size you fitted and a recommended source to buy from in Australia (preferably). Thanks
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Follow Up By: kiwicol - Monday, May 26, 2014 at 17:49

Monday, May 26, 2014 at 17:49
Hi Guys,
Google HHO generators, I seem to get more info.
I bought mine from Global Energy they are in the states.
I am up on the Tablelands FNQ and there is a bloke up here that gets them manufactured in Asia then brings them here. He advertises on Ebay.
I am in the process of getting one for my Truck which is 24v so hopefully will get the same savings.
Cheers Col.
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