Costco Diesel

Thats strange OZHV as I always believed BP was the best as it had a higher cetane rating than other brands (BP Ultimate ie). There are threads on this site where members have researched this and confirm that the cetane rating is 51 (BP); Shell (49); and Caltex 45.
We have a European diesel car as well and the owners manual states to use a cetane rating of 50 or better. So we can only use BP.


But my personal view is that diesel quality varies greatly between loactions and States. For example not every brand has a refinery in every State so there must be some sharing of fuel between brands.
So while BP may produce diesel from its own refinery at 51 I am not so sure if it buys diesel from another refinery to rebrand it for resale in a state where it does not have a refinery that it would still be 51. I doubt it.

What annoys me is that there is no legislation in Australia to make outlets advertise the cetane rating of their diesel. We are buying a product which we really don't know what its rating is (unlike Petrol which is sold as 93, 95 or 98 octane etc). This need to be changed. Consumers should be able to make an informed decision on what diesel they choose to buy. This is denied us at present.

Cetane rating isn't necessarily linked with economy. 45 C may be more energy dense and return better economy than a 51C which is for high speed diesels doing 160km/h but if you aren't racing the vehicle it makes little difference. The higher cetane is essential for a fast diesel but not for the normal ones we drive., unless you are going to rev it.

Probably why adding some 2 stroke to the diesel, which lowers Centane rating slightly, but makes the fuel more energy dense often gives more economy.

People link cetane rating and octane rating, and think of it as similar. They are different concepts.

Ross,

"Probably why adding some 2 stroke to the diesel, which lowers Centane rating slightly, but makes the fuel more energy dense often gives more economy."

I have never heard of this concept, do you do this, does it work? I assume you mean some 2 stroke oil. Are we talking a lot of oil?

I don't doubt what you say Ross but our car just seems to run better on BP Ultimate. Its also at start up.....less cranking with BP. Just fires up. We use a specialist mechanic (who only works with German diesel cars) and said the lower cetane rating fuels were not good for our car. So we switched to BP Ultimate and in my opinion the car does seem to run sweeter.

Sanantone
Yes many people do add 2stroke oil to their fuel tank. The idea is for additional lubricity for injectors pumps and injectors too.
At a ratio about 200:1
Hard to quantify, but if it makes the system last a long time and obviously more than other users experience, then it may be worth it. Without adding some you will never know. Some people have used it for over 150,000km.

If the engine is designed to take advantage of the additional cetane rating then it will/should run better on that fuel, hence what Silverchrome has found with their car.

I'm not a fuel chemist, but it would seem, the more you refine something means there is less energy in the refined bit, a Volatility increase,, but it then has more of some desired properties, ie can cater for high speed diesels operation which the lower more energy dense fuel can't provide.

The more energy dense one will/may deliver more economy if used within it's burning range. If you want to go fast then you have to burn more of the fuel to get enough of the fast burn content and so overall more fuel may be used.

My worst economy was using Caltex Vortex. Cost more, travelled less distance. It must have had a NO Tane rating.

Thanks for the follow up Ross, certainly worth looking into.

Cheers

Sanantone

VERY IMPORTANT . . . only use mineral based 2 stroke oil, nothing synthetic or semi synthetic.

Castrol Activ 2t is the one I use, and I believe Gulf Western have one suitable too.
Must be low ash jaso fc grade.

Try it :)
As mentioned 200:1 added to diesel, and listen . . . much quieter and smoother motor, usually less black smoke out the exhaust too which indicates it helps burn more of the diesel injected.

I use the Castrol Activ 2t oil as well, Jaso approved. I use this in conjunction with Caltex Vortex Premium Diesel and I get the best results. I have no evidence the oil improves my mileage however the premium diesel does. This is in a Common rail D4D.

@ Ross, Les PK Ranger,

I am a believer in using 2 stroke as well in 1:200 ratio.
I use an outboard 2 stroke (premium grade)
It is ash free and is rated as TC W3

Does anyone know how that rates with the JASO FC grade?

Cheers

I 'think' most marine grade 2SO is synthetic or part synthetic, and it 'might' not dissolve as readily / fully in diesel.

I know someone posted on the 4WDA forum or 4x4 Earth forum ow they did jar tests on a whole range of 2SO's (pretty sure there were pics), and the only ones that dissolved / mixed fully, and (after well over a year) remain fully dissolved, was the Castrol 2t Activ . . . this other Gulf Western which is also mineral based and FASO FC grade is also mentioned on threads as being used for extended periods by some owners.

Maybe grab a jar and try filling with diesel, your 2SO, and see if it fully dissolves, or if it remains floating around in little 'globs' ?

I'd be very careful using it TBH, googled it a bit and found that the TCW3 is really designed for outboards / marine applications, but even then some manufacturers are saying don't use it in their crafts engines.

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128249

http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm
"It is important to note that oil designed to meet TCW3 specs. only (Ashless) will not protect an engine requiring API-TC (Low Ash) type oil."

But remember we are talking about a whole different use for a 2SO than any of these articles are talking about.

I've been running the Castrol 2T Activ for 60 thou now.

There is a hell of a lot written and posted on two stroke in diesel.

The two best australian threads are on ausfish and 4wd action.

There is extensive well qualified reading else where....if you have the time and inclination...buy a big jar of coffee or a case of red bull, then google "two stroke in diesel".

I can personally testify that it works very well in my 3 liter mechanically injected diesel and know others who have had very good results..though it varies from vehicle to vehicle.

A mate of mine has just gone over to running two stroke in his flogged out kubota diesel mower.....he says that the improvment is dramatic...the engine runs much quieter and is more willing.

as for the TCW3.
It has been tested and it does work in old style diesels...I have run it myself...I had some I needed to burn....the mineral product seesm to work better.

BUT if you have a common rail diesel, you are well counciled to only use good quality mineral two stroke intended for air cooled motors.

The TCW3 oil is intended for water coooled outboards that run pretty cool in comparison to other engines.

As far as cetain.....the reading I have is that up to a certain ratio ad in certain fuels it increases cetain marginally, as the ratio increases past the 200:1 it reduces cetain...it may depend on how much similar product is already in the fuel.

As far as the fuels.
My diesel dislikes the BP fuel...it runs noisier and is a tad slugish...particularly without the two stroke.
The caltex seems to agree with my engine better.

cheers

If an 1800cc Corolla gets less than 30 MPG then it baldy needs a tuneup or teaching the driver how to drive economically. I had a Wide Body Camry Auto for 10 years and it always got better than 28mpg and on along trip 36mpg.

As Michael stated, that's remarkable fuel economy for a Patrol. Definitely not a CRD Patrol as Patrol forum indicates much higher then 14 litres per 100 combined.

The economy for the Corollla is about right.....8.4 litres per 100 combined. You have jumped the gun and not questioned where the vehicle is driven, length of runs, etc. Maybe you drive like a grandma and mostly down hill....so I have made an assumption.

Brett....

Hi Guys,

Good discussion and to answer some questions for you.

regular driving each week consists of, driving from Oran Park to Wetherill Park to work 5 days a week, 2 of those days i then travel to Penrith for my son's sports then back to Oran Park, no freeway.
Saturday's I drive to Penrith again for sports and back to Oran Park.

I have been using Castrol Activ 2t also for last 120,000km (speedo reading now is 266,000km). I don't drive like granny lol, usually on or 5-10km above speed limit to keep up with traffic flow, but i do short shift and not rev over 2500 rpm between upshifts, nothing special but it is good for me.

Cheers Rob

Hardly surprising, haven't the big two supermarkets got their finger in the pie with Shell & Caltex, for which reason I won't use either!

I believe Caltex Vortex Diesel has the highest Cetane rating, Vortex Premium has the cleaning agent and anti-foaming agent. BP Ultimate Diesel is only available in Perth I believe, not sure what the rating is. Shell Diesel is probably the lowest, and I thought BP was in the middle. If the improvement came from the fuel I would tip Caltex.

Phil
$60 pa membership fee to buy anything from Costco.

I gather that the answer is a yes.

Shame

Phil

Vortex Diesel has up to 10% 'ingredients determined to be non-hazardous' which I'm led to believe is biodiesel as it cleans and doesn't foam.

http://www.caltex.com.au/productsandservices/pages/vortexpremiumfuels.aspx

? . .

Phil

Yes that is correct.

Just for interest sake here are the new Costco Brisbane prices today

91.......135.7
98....... 148.7
Diesel ....143.7

Interesting that a lot of the Service Stations around it have also dropped prices

Yes that is happening...I noticed the WW Caltex in Anzac Avenue had diesel at $1.45.9 but with 4c voucher that becomes $1.41.9 and I think you can even get an 8c voucher which would mean $1.37.9.
Competition is good for the end consumer.

garrycol,
never a truer word spoken. With regional coastal towns, the fuel arrives by sea in the one tanker and then goes to whoever wants it. As you said, a sprinkle of additive here and a sprinkle of additive there and then the fuel becomes super fuel for super 4wds and monster trucks.

My mate works at the Caltex refinery in the testing section. He tells me that when a tanker comes in the fuel is tested and if it does not meet their specification it is rejected and ends up being purchased by one of the other guys.
The fuel might all come from Singapore but it would be different grades and have different additives included by the various brand names

Two stroke in diesel has been the subject of quite a few massive threads on many forums. The general consensus is that the engines seem to run quieter but whether there are any other benefits is the subject of a lot of arguments. Now if you run a hiclone as well... well that's a different story...

Hi Mikehzz,

I used to have a Nissan Terrano II 2.7 Intercooled Turbo Diesel and fitted a hi --clone, it lasted about 7 years then disinegrated and went into the turbo.........replacement turbo re-fitted.
I would NOT recommend that product to anyone.

Rob.

No-one has mentioned adding LPG to diesel so I will. The injection of a small amount of LPG just upstream from the turbo makes a big difference to fuel economy and torque. Range increases quite dramatically, the vehicle feels more driveable, the throttle opening required to maintain a fixed speed drops by about a third, and I'm told emissions are reduced.

The only negatives are the initial cost, and lack of LPG in remote areas.

In my case, a 20L gas tank is just enough for a 120L diesel tank.

Bob

LPG or CNG run in conjunction with pump diesel can considerably increase the power ouytput of a diesel...and aparantly it reduces the polutants out the pipe too......but its not a trivial thing to do.

Two stroke in diesel however is very easy and cheap to do.

cheers