Re registering with drawers installed

Submitted: Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 12:00
ThreadID: 108156 Views:2457 Replies:8 FollowUps:8
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Hi. Can anyone help me re registering a vehicle that has had drawers installed in the rear.
The person issuing the roadworthy certificate says that he is unable to issue a certificate as the vehicle will now only seat five not the seven that it is listed as capable of seating.
Bureaucracy gone mad !!
The vehicle is on the Gold Coast
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 12:18

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 12:18

I hope that works. The inspecting person has a technical point, but there is the ability to be flexible with the application of it.

As I understand it, if the seats are removed, however the seat belts retained, and you can satisfy that the removal is temporary for the carriage of items etc..hence the drawers, then they will allow that.

There would be tens of thousands of 4wd wagons like that. The fitment of drawers in a reasonable interpretation be temporary.

Technically the fitment of a cargo barrier is illegal if the 6/7th seats are still fitted too.
AnswerID: 533919

Follow Up By: Bludge - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 12:49

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 12:49
I registered my last year, moved from NSW to QLD. I had my draws in place and the tester tested the rear seat belts for operation, asked me if the rear seats were still in my posession and if they were in good order, and that was it. Sometimes there is common sense.
FollowupID: 817416

Reply By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 14:50

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 14:50
When I first read your post old fellow I thought yep, bureaucracy gone mad and maybe a bit of a power trip for the inspector. However on reading the post a bit more carefully I tend to think he may have a point. If the original rego stated that your wagon was legal for up to 7 passengers then theoretically you could sit a couple of extra bodies on the draws, clip on the seat belts, if still installed, and still be legal. Yeah I know, a bit silly and not something any reasonable person would do but the inspector has probably never met you so has no way of knowing if you fall into the "reasonable" "sensible" basket or not so he is applying the rule as required.

AnswerID: 533928

Follow Up By: abqaiq - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 16:00

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 16:00
In NSW some years ago [2006] our 11 seat Troopy was listed technically as a bus and would have required frequent inspections as a public transport vehicle! It then had only the origin front seats so determined not to be a bus, problem solved. Now only a two [bucket] seater, with full width slide out tray in back. Regulation, regulation more restrictions than the U.S.
FollowupID: 817430

Reply By: Shaker - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 16:48

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 16:48
I think I read once that it depends on if you need tools to remove the seats or not.

AnswerID: 533937

Reply By: Hoyks - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 18:18

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 18:18
Throw the seats on top of the draws and take it back. The inspector is being a knob.

"For vehicles fitted with bolt in seating structures, no approval by
an Approved Person is necessary for the temporary removal of
seats, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a
result of the seating reduction."
AnswerID: 533950

Reply By: Member - Andrew - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 22:00

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 22:00
Hi old fellow
The logic is simple. If the vehicle is registered with a number of seats then the inspector is looking for that many seats to make sure they comply. If the seats aren,t there then how can they be checked for condition, security etc. if you put the seats in later and someone gets hurt because its not done properly then guess who is liable.
Why should he take the risk? For example would you want him to accept your word that you will also fit the brakes properly that he found worn out without a reinspection? Imagine if you were buying the vehicle.
Guidelines were issued to allow drawers to be fitted without changing the registered seating capacity but that excluded roadworthy inspections and required the ability to return the vehicle to standard.
This was to get around the need for engineers reports to change seating capacity.

AnswerID: 533969

Follow Up By: Sash - Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 23:27

Saturday, Jun 07, 2014 at 23:27
Surely the inspector inspects as is and states on the inspection the rear seats were not installed at the time of inspection as the extract appears to say it is ok
FollowupID: 817451

Follow Up By: Member - The old fellow - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 07:40

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 07:40
Sorry Andrew I was unable to open your PDF file, any chance of giving the relevant wording .
Many thanks
FollowupID: 817454

Follow Up By: Member - The old fellow - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 07:51

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 07:51
Hi Andrew
Just managed to open PDF file. Will now study
FollowupID: 817455

Follow Up By: Member - The old fellow - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 10:41

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 10:41
Thanks all for your posts.
Thanks to Andrew I am now a lot more knowledgable re this matter.
I quote from the PDF file Andrew forwarded to me:
"For vehicles fitted with quick release seating attachments as original equipment, temporary removal of the seats is acceptable. A Modification Plate does not need to be fitted"
The relevant word is "Temporary"
This is a greatly different story to what I was told by the guy who charged me $95 and still would not provide me with a certificate !!
Cheers and thanks
FollowupID: 817475

Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 11:40

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 11:40
The inspector is in fact being quite reasonable in not sticking his @#$e out and saying kick me.

This is plainly a permanent modification.....this issue not being the draws but the seating capacity.

you will need a simple change of seating capacity...there are plenty out there who do this.

It takes a great deal less to do seating capacity variations than full blown "engineering".

There are plenty of people out there driving noncompliant vehicles and saying all this us unnecessary.

SO...are you feeling lucky...well are you.

AnswerID: 533998

Follow Up By: Member - Tom and Trish - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 21:08

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 21:08
Hi there The Bantam,
Mate you are correct, the inspector had every right to fall the inspection, as the vehicle is required have the listed seating at inspection. If seats put back in then inspection passed. It is still legal to take seats back out and put drawers in. This is still considered temporary, as with mine, my daughter borrowed our Cruiser which atm is a four seater, drawers out, fridge out, seats back in to make it eight seater. All fully legal, how stupid would it be to get classified as a 4 seater & never be able to put seats back in, but for a safety certificate, I would have to reinstall all seats or get it reclassified. Actually makes sense.
FollowupID: 817530

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 22:47

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 22:47
You could argue about it being temporay or not all day.

I'd be very interested what a government inspector would say.

FollowupID: 817541

Reply By: Hoyks - Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 15:33

Sunday, Jun 08, 2014 at 15:33
What bloody difference does it really make?

The vehicle is made to take 7. It has CTP for 7 occupants, so what difference does it make taking 2 seats out and sticking them in the shed?

I had draws in my old wagon and the seats were in the shed. Was it a permanent modification?
No. Seat belts and seat mounting points were still there and it was 20min with a ratchet to take the draws out and fit the seats out in, 1/2 hour if I took the cargo barrier out as well. Far inconvenient, but far from permanent and it often got re-configured when we took friends to the beach.

If it was a troop carrier with 8 seats in the back and you unbolted them and pulled out the seatbelts in order to reduce the CTP from that of a bus then the Permanent clause would apply "For the purposes of this policy, "permanent" means the seats are
removed for an indefinite period or not expected to be refitted."

But looking at a Prado, 1/2 the seatbelt is still in the side trim, so leaving that there and being happy with it still being registered as a 7 seater and having the 6th and 7th seat on top of the cupboard in the shed would indicate to a reasonable person that you may wish to re-fit them at some point in the future.
AnswerID: 534011

Reply By: awill4x4 - Monday, Jun 09, 2014 at 11:26

Monday, Jun 09, 2014 at 11:26
Thankfully for those of us in Victoria we have some sanity on this issue and removal of the rear seats doesn't need a modification certificate.
The link here Removal of seats in Victoria is from Vicroads website.
The important facts for us are as follows:

An Approval Certificate is not required if:

the number of original seating positions was less than 10
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 2 - 3 seats in the front row only
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 4 - 9 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1970
more than 12 seating positions have been reduced to 10-12 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1986
the number of seating positions does not reduce to below 13

If the modification is not listed above an Approval Certificate is required.

For those of us Victorians if travelling interstate it would be worth printing the original page off the Vicroads website if confronted by an over officious member of the police.
Regards Andrew.
AnswerID: 534063

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