TJM - Geebung - Brisbane

Submitted: Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 08:46
ThreadID: 108275 Views:2734 Replies:10 FollowUps:13
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All, TJM Geebung installed a ERPS in my 2011 Troopie. I ordered and paid for a 10-pad system.
2 pads on the chassis, 4 pads on the body & 1 pad inside each door.
I was away for work when the vehicle was returned so I didn't get to check it for a few weeks. When I did check it, I noticed that the door interior panels had not been disturbed & the wire harnesses into the doors still had the original covering.

I called TJM & they confirmed that a 10-pad system had been installed. I took the vehicle to them & asked them to point out all 10 pads. They could not.
ONLY 6 pads had been installed.
They then took the vehicle & installed the remaining pads.

Over this past weekend I noticed that the ERPS had stopped working. This can only happen due to a broken circuit. So I got under the truck & checked the ERPS wiring.
What I found has absolutely floored me.
The manufacturer REQUIRED installation procedure is for all wire connections to be soldered, then encased inside the supplied casings & then the casings filled with silicon to protect them.
The TJM installers have bared the wires, soldered them together & then just wrapped a bit of electrical tape around them. Each connection that I checked was the same. NONE of the wire connections had been done in the manufacturers required way. All of the connections I checked had corrosion all over the bare copper wires.

I'm now in discussion with both ERPS and TJM trying to get this recitifed.

So my advice is.... If you have had any installation work done by TJM at Geebung CHECK IT. Make sure that it has been installed correctly. Down the track you may find that you have issues.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:27

Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:27
Quite a number of years ago, the brother was having an in-car phone kit installed in his brand-new 'Cruiser, when the mobile phone market was going crazy.
He was overseeing the installation because he didn't trust any employee of any company ripping into his new vehicle with sharp-edged tools and with no ideas.

As he watched this "phone-installing-specialist" bloke ripping out dozens of panels and wiring and getting ready to drill holes in the middle of the dashboard, and anywhere where he thought a drillhole looked good - and the brother was trying to slow him down on his destructive rampage, and get him to think about the damage he was doing - he says to him, "what was your last job, anyway, mate?"

The bloke fires back, happy as they come, "Oh, I was a fencer on a station, mate!"
"This job pays a lot better money, though!". (insert face-plant icon here).

As this incident shows, you often pay for "pros" when having new equipment installed - but instead, get installers who should be wearing blue aprons and working where they sell meat.

I won't even mention what I've seen when it comes to towbar and bullbar installations.
AnswerID: 534465

Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:38

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:38
I have a sliding scale when doing any work here..

I do the job .. standard rate
you watch.. double rate
you help ... triple rate ..

;-) haha

Anyway, I'm not sure they have university courses on phone kit instalations, you'd only need half a clue and be a bit handy i'm sure..
But yes, I know the feeling when handing a new vehicle over for someone unkown to hack into it.
Same can be said for handing the keys over for a service...

Cheers
Al
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FollowupID: 818256

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 13:21

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 13:21
Al - One has no guarantee of the skills or training level of anyone classed as an "installer" - that's the problem.

I've seen too many "installers" who were as dangerous with a power drill in their hands, as a drunk with a loaded firearm.

They're usually happy to punch a dozen disfiguring holes in vehicle dashboards, panels, and anything else that gets in the way, while they are installing their product.

That's why we used to watch these blokes like a hawk, until we were satisfied that they knew what they were doing - and that each of our aims were identical, in the quality and appearance level of the finished, installed product!

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: John and Regina M - Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:50

Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:50
It pays to b proactive and diligent. You won't believe the number of absolute rubbish jobs I've had to repair done by people who insist on doing it themselves because they've had a bad experience in the past. But if u pay good money then u should receive good service.
AnswerID: 534469

Reply By: olcoolone - Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 14:54

Monday, Jun 16, 2014 at 14:54
Many of these places work to a price and this price is often set by the customers who in there mind know how to do it better or what it should cost.

I am not saying your one of these customers but saying places get so use to it from loosing work or being abused for ripping people off they treat all jobs the same...... and the buck stops with the boss for not ensuring his staff are working to a industry acceptable standard or are suitably qualified.

7 out of 10 retail customers we see in our business are only looking for a cheaper price and don't give a rats %%% about the quality of workmanship, how it is done or what your going to use on the installation/repair...... as long as it's cheaper then the other they don't care.

Maybe they think all business offer the same quality of workmanship and quality parts.... or maybe they don't think at all.

We loose more work from retail customers due to the guy around the corner or down the road doing it cheaper by doing substandard work and using cheap stuff..... customers have very short memories.

We get other businesses quoting 1 hour to fit a brake controller and 2 hours to fit a dual battery system with an Anderson plug at the rear.

What we have seen over the years is many businesses who do it right change industries (go to mining) and give away retail altogether because of it; leaving retail customers with only one choice to use the cheap shonky guy down the road.

People are their own worst enemies...... happy to buy cheap inferior products of eBay but complain like hell when there local supplier has closed down or they can't buy quality products any more..... and in some cases get abusive towards our staff because the want customer support for some thing they bought of some eBay seller and that we want to charge them for it.

Not accusing you of it but the twenty others before you for it.


But getting back to you Louwai....... I would be complaining like hell and asking what zoo he got the monkey from. Not following instructions, poor workmanship and little pride in their work........ mate someone like that would last a day with me in my business.

It is scarry the quality of work from many who should know better and DIYers who think the know better.

But as I said above the buck stops with the boss and the boss is the one who should be taking the blame for it FULL STOP. blaming an employee is not a legit reason.

This problem is not a localised problem, it is wide spread and something seen weekly.... people pay good money and get below standards.



AnswerID: 534483

Follow Up By: Louwai - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 16:18

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 16:18
Today I was contacted by the owner of the TJM-Geebung store. She was extremely apologetic as would be expected. We had a discussion regarding the issue.
She said she will get in contact with the #1 of E.R.P.S. and together they are going to resolve the issue.

An hr later I received a call from Geoff of E.R.P.S. All is underway for rectification. Geoff said he will personally go to TJM & supervise the re-fit to make sure everything is correct to his installation specifications.

So far a good outcome. The actual work is yet to be completed.
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FollowupID: 818191

Reply By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 07:20

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 07:20
Should have spent your money on rust proofing at least you know it works. 10 pads wow when I use to fit them the most we put on was 6 pads I would get your money back because you just wasted it on a gimmicky device.
AnswerID: 534513

Follow Up By: Louwai - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 16:29

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 16:29
Why is it a gimmicky device? What's your proof that it doesn't work?
It's fundamentally the same as the devices used on shipping terminal wharfs & jetties to stop them corroding away. They work.
Why wouldn't this work?

There is nothing that will stop rust. ERPS or Coupler-Tech don't claim to stop it, just to greatly slow it down. Pretty much just like every other anti-rust product.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 16:37

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 16:37
I have engineered the installation of Cathodic Protection on underground pipelines and sorry, but it is not "fundamentally the same" as ERPS and other products sold for rust control in vehicles".

Of course ERPS do not claim to stop rust. They don't want an action for damages!
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 818193

Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 07:59

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 07:59
So your vehicle is kept in a constant moist environment just like a jetty and by the way they on their web site they do claim it will prevent or stop rust from forming. Do the clean the paint off the area they stick the pads to or are they just placed on top of the paint so it can't penetrate into the metal because the paint will act as an insulator. So you can put a multimeter any where in the circuit to test it's working so I would expect then there is electrostatic charge passing threw the pad which I would expect it be a good insulator as well because it's just a sticky double sided pad so current won't pass threw the pad into the vehicle but somehow sends out a magical electron rich negative charge into the vehicle so should be able to place the multi metre any where on the vehicle and get the same reading. You said your vehicle is a 2011 model well I wouldn't expect to see any signs of rust for at least the first 15 yrs of it's life without treating it with anything. So like most people who have them fitted and swear by them and keep their car for usually less than 5 yrs which doesn't prove anything. Give us a yell in say 20 yrs or more if you keep the car that long and well see how the erps is performing I bet you'll get rust forming and have to get it fixed. I'm not an electrician but explain to me how if your vehicle has a positive power supply and a negative earth then how does the erps work by putting a negative charge which it's power supply or output into your vehicles body which is it's earth and not cause sparks or fuses to blow. Because it would have to supply a fair amount of power threw the pads for the whole system to complete it's circuit so it is protecting all of the metal on the vehicle in the areas between each pad. I am not having a shot at you in a personal way at all I just don't believe these actually work do some research.
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Follow Up By: Louwai - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:46

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:46
Fair comment Batt's. But all of that seems to be your opinion.
ERPS have been around for about 18yrs. So there must be plenty of people with vehicles that have had systems fitted over 10yrs ago.

I'd be interested to hear their driving circumstances & their opinion of the system.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 09:54

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 09:54
One other thing quite often the red light will fail after some time unless they have addressed that issue but you will be told the unit is still operating as is should "yeah right" and you might even get a replacement unit fitted for free. I have a 1993 GQ patrol and I resprayed it last year because it had some surface rust appearing in various places which only needed rubbing back and I did remove about 1" off the end of the roof gutter on the passengers side because it rusted under the plastic cover so nothing major needed fixing after 20 years with a reasonable amount of beach driving and quite a bit of bush driving and I don't religiously wash the car either. So I would expect that a newer vehicle should last at least that long or even longer before it shows any signs of rust so I hope your planning to have yours for a long time to get the benefit from your erps unit good luck with that.
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Reply By: allein m - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 14:32

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 14:32
I grew up with a sort of Protestant work ethic and every job I did was done to the my best ability and i worked alongside people who had work with the company for a long time .

I was shown how to do some jobs by older and more experienced people

Today long service is some thing of a rarity so may lay of and cut backs and early retirement .

Look at the railway workshops in Perth closed down all that learning gone and telstra and all the other company's laying people off

so what do we end up with people who do not have the proper training and lack of works with the proper skills

Also people do not seem to care about the company like they used to when I started work because they know the possibility of long full employment is not there

yes there are some companies with people in that company who have been there a long time but they are getting rarer by the year.


look at m situation last year kid who put new tires on the car and did not replace the tubless valves he did not know what to do no one has told him and he is left to do the work because they have cut back all the full time staff.

how can we fix this problem I have no idea some one might know.

AnswerID: 534532

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 19:06

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2014 at 19:06
Bit ironic - you install a rust-prevention system and it stuffs up because of corroded wires !!
AnswerID: 534544

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:38

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:38
Hey, Phil - It's obvious, isn't it? - the copper wires are the sacrificial anode of the system! [;-)

I can cheerfully say I've never seen any "electrolytic rust protection system" on a vehicle that has ever received full and unconditional approval from any authority of note.

My anti-corrosion favorites are:

EXIT RUST: Proven to work, uses iron tannates to coat the surface, and iron tannates are notable for stopping corrosion.
The poplar trees in Europe are full of tannates in their bark - and if anyone recalls, some blokes pulled a WW2 Russian tank out of a lake in Eastern Europe, and it was almost totally rust free, due to the lake being surrounded by poplars, and the tannates in the bark were in substantial levels in the lake water.

PHOSPHORIC ACID: Leaves a coating of phosphate when it dries that protects again corrosion. Well known and proven.

METALFIX PAINT: Water-based paint made in W.A. that contains phosphoric acid plus other chemicals, that convert rust to a solid impenetrable compound that resists rust like galvanising. Get a look at the blokes Landcruiser on their website that he hand-painted 10 yrs ago with Metalfix - and yet he dunks the Cruiser in the sea every day to launch his boat.

VALVOLINE TECTYL: Well known for several decades for being a good rust protectant. But gooey and messy and does nothing to stabilise or convert rust that has already started.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 818262

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:59

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:59
Gday Ron,
Fishoil was my favourite in the 1970's - still got a can in the shed.
Cars and 4wds don't rust today like they did in the past.
You'd have to really be abusing the vehicle to want an ERPS.
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FollowupID: 818266

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 13:14

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 13:14
Phil - Yes, the design of car bodies today is better, with less "rust trap areas", better protective coatings, and better drainage holes.

However, the big trend today is towards high tensile steel in car bodies to save weight and gain an increase in body strength.
All manufacturers today use HT steel in the body structure as well as panels.

The problem is that HT steel panels are much thinner than their mild steel predecessors - and HT steel corrodes much faster than mild steel - as you'd already know, if you've ever left a HT bolt out in the weather.

This means that if any protective coatings on the body or panels are damaged, corrosion will commence faster, and quickly be more destructive than it ever used to be.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 818268

Reply By: Member - kyle46 - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 21:16

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 21:16
so in ten years things haven't changed. TJM fitted mine both pads in engine bay had fallen off within 12 mths.
AnswerID: 534596

Follow Up By: Batt's - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 18:05

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 18:05
Ah I see where they failed we use to run a small bead of selleys roof & gutter silicone around the outside of all of the pads so they couldn't fall off then the only thing the customer would come back for is when the red light failed on the unit. I broke open one of the erps units one day gee that moulded plastic stuff is tough and I found a little chip looking thing inside where it got it's magical powers from with 2 wires running off it for the pads and a red light attached very very basic stuff which has the ability to generate a great deal of wealth for some very smart people who have no problem with being able to prey on the gullible.
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FollowupID: 818361

Reply By: rossy - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 06:24

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 06:24
Yeh I know what you mean.
When Maroochy Car sound installed the tyre dog system on my Land cruiser they did such a Dodgy job it had stopped working by the time I got from Brisbane to Melbourne. Luckily the distributor was there in Melbourne and very helpful. They reattached the wire which had fallen off under the car and were disgusted to see that they had attached the monitor under the car with a plastic zip tie! They said that the minimum that should have been done was to have the monitor bolted onto a steel bracket under the car.
AnswerID: 534612

Reply By: Batt's - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 18:13

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 18:13
Now all we need is erps to send a letter threatening legal action for bagging their product on a forum just like gic campers done to another 4wd site when people where bagging their product they got the thread completely deleted from the site because it's a good way to win over customers.
AnswerID: 534641

Follow Up By: Louwai - Friday, Jul 04, 2014 at 13:19

Friday, Jul 04, 2014 at 13:19
You seem to be the only one bagging it. The thread was started with regard to the workmanship of the installers, not about the ERPS system's capability, or lack there-of.
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FollowupID: 819308

Reply By: Louwai - Friday, Jul 04, 2014 at 13:11

Friday, Jul 04, 2014 at 13:11
The outcome - for those of you who are interested.

Colleen, the owner of TJM, arranged for the ERPS to be correctly installed at her Wooloongabba store which is closer to my office.
Lee the manager was extremely helpful & friendly. I dropped the vehicle off early today & I was given a lift to work.
Jeff from ERPS was also present to oversee the re-fit.

Lee has just advised me that they were not happy with the original installation workmanship. They have removed the entire original system & have completely replaced it with a brand new system.

Top marks to TJM for accepting and rectifying the issue.
AnswerID: 535444

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