Iveco 4x4

Ron,
Put an email query in to TravelTrucks. The guy rang me back within 1/2 hr so good response.
He gave me all the good points about their camper build and also about the Iveco.
Then he gave me the price plus on road.
The basic unit $201,000. (Insert goggle eyed emoticon)
After I thanked him for his prompt response and got my hyper ventilating under control I did a comparison to buying a new off road van, Bushtracker, Kedron, Trackmaster, etc etc and something capable of dragging one around, 200 Cruiser, Patrol V8 petrol, and all those US mega rides you would be looking at not getting much change out of $250,000. So price wise comparable. BUT. Different styles and probably not an apples 2 apples comparo.
As for a Mog. Sorry not into mountaineering. You seen how high them babies are off the ground. Even with my aging bones I could do the limbo under one without getting oil on my shirt front.
I agree not enough on the road and off as far as the Iveco goes hence my inquiry.

Thanks
Pop

"All European design vehicles I have used/encountered are electronically complex, and don't do well in outback conditions"

After I picked myself up off the floor....I started to wonder, Does the 200 series not have a number of computers....are they not electronically complex. Have only seen a couple of these on trips that have had issues....no more than any others.

Quite funny really.

Brett...

Disco, there's a big difference between how the Japs build their electrics and electronics - and how the Europeans build their electrics and electronics.

The Japs take more care with their design in the protection of circuits, connectors, wiring, and location of crucial electrical components.

Regardless - after 250,000kms of dirt roads and deep water, I'll put my non-electronic vehicle into the toughest conditions, long before I'd put a fully electronic vehicle with the same kms, into those same conditions.

Cheers, Ron.

Interesting reading all this about Iveco and mogs etc.. have had problems with Fiat Ducato myself. drove some mogs (Uni) in Army, seriously capable bit of kit. had several gears ,4x4, synchro- auto fwd/ reverse gearbox , drive chain linked front winch etc..
seen one out get of a bit of a bog using fwd/rev capacity .
anyhow...I note the problem of expensive ( or rare) parts, friend of mine made a mould copy of a part and then built his own working replica, using plaster initially, then resin. as for making metal ones, I've seen the portable melt-welders used for steel railway work repair- maybe convert to Aluminium or am I being too hopeful with a forge or similar? a few hrs in local scrap car yard could lead to an equivalent part when described as a 'piece of alloy pipe casting' ? worth a try at $1000 ea to buy. I would even have a go in my man cave (shed) for 1/2 that.
MG.

Done, thanks mate.

Peter,

Thanks mate, yeah read a bit about how the latest 4WD offering, generation 5, is based on a supposedly military spec chassis. I thought they said something about being built in Italy with I think Carraro (spelling?) axles. ZF 6 speed gearbox and I think a Fiat engine (shudder). Then Iveco mate their cab and electronics to the chassis electronics. I must admit that sounded like a disaster in the making.
Their specs re towing, carrying off road ability, do sound impressive but I am getting the feeling a bloke may be better off waiting a while to see how all that marries up in Australian conditions.

Cheers
Pop

Pop - IVECO is a company, that if it was a woman, it'd be well known as the town whore.
Iveco has hopped into bed with every 2nd company in Europe. It's mind-boggling trying to follow the history of the company.

Iveco was originally formed as a merger of 5 companies - Fiat Industrial Vehicles, Lancia Industrial Vehicles, the Italian OM company, UNIC of France, and Magirus-Deutz (the German truck and fire-engine builder that utilised air-cooled Deutz engines).
IVECO was always owned and controlled by Fiat Industrial S.p.A.

In 1986, IVECO merged with Ford of Europe's truck division - and the Ford truck factories started producing IVECO trucks, as well as the declining Ford truck range, such as the Ford Cargo.

Meantimes, in 1986, Ford bought New Holland (the ag manufacturer) and formed Ford New Holland. In 1991, Fiat bought 80% of FNH, then later on, moved to 100% ownership. It then became Fiat New Holland.
In 1992, IVECO purchased International Harvester of Australia. The new company was first known as ITAL (International Trucks Aust Ltd), but it was later changed to IVECO Aust.
In 1999, Case and FNH merged to form CNH Global N.V. (which merged company was still majority-owned by Fiat Industrial S.p.A.).

In 2010 Fiat announced that CNH, Iveco and Fiat Powertrain Industrial & Marine will be separated from the auto business, and listed in Milan stock exchange as Fiat Industrial.
In 2011, CNH becomes 100% owned by Fiat Industrial. In 2013, CNH merges with parent company Fiat Industrial S.p.A, forming the new CNH Industrial N.V.

I hope I haven't lost you yet. LOL

Meantimes, going back to the Iveco Daily, this truck was originally the Fiat 616N.
It was rebranded the Iveco Daily in 1978, after the IVECO takeover of Fiat Industrial Vehicles, and has gone through 4 generations of model re-design.

The Iveco Daily 4x4 is a specially-built Daily, built under order from Iveco, by an Italian company by the name of SCAM S.p.A. (good name, eh?? try searching Google for SCAM - LOL).

The SCAM company specialises in specialty Off-Road, Armoured and other tactical vehicles.
The SCAM company gets the cabs and chassis (complete with engine) from Iveco and builds the Daily 4x4 by installing a whole new driveline, adding a transfer case and using Carraro axles (the Italian Antonio Carraro, has been a tractor builder and specialist engineering supplier for many years).
It appears the transfer case is built and supplied by SCAM. It's probably built in another Italian companies factory, and supplied to SCAM's order.

The fully completed Daily 4x4 is then rolled out of the SCAM factory (jeez, I love that name! - LOL), and is then shipped to the Iveco dealers for sale.

Here's some interesting links with lots of info:

Iveco Daily - Wikipedia

Antonio Carraro

Carraro Drivetech (axle specs on this page)

SCAM trucks

Cheers, Ron.

While I did manage to follow you to what appeared to be the inevitable, I must admit my eyes did start to glaze over slightly somewhere between International trucks and the Scam someone was trying on.

Looks like the jury may still be out on this one and my old girl (the ute..lol) is still doing it's duty so I think I may wait until a more definite verdict is reached.

Thanks for the time and info. I honestly couldn't have had the patience to follow the genealogy of a bush rabbit which seems to bear a striking resemblance to the vehicle in question.

Cheers
Pop

Yep, trying to follow the corporate shenanigans melts your brain.
The simple fact is the Iveco Daily largely has Fiat origins and input into the design.
The engine is Iveco design, but it uses a lot of Fiat technology.

I've been chatting to some Poms, they have a lot of the 2WD Dailies - they reckon the heads crack regularly once they get well up in kms.
Clutches regularly give trouble (could be a result of a lot of Pommy stop-start driving - but that equates with off-road, anyway).

One bloke says the Daily 4X4 rear drum brakes tend to overheat with hard work, and he can't understand why they didn't use rear discs - they're available from Carraro.

The fuel injection pumps on the Iveco engine are definitely a trouble area, once the kms pile up.
And of course, they all reckon the electrics are a right PIA. Way too many circuits, circuit breakers, connectors and sensors, that are a prime cause of stoppages when a few years old.

As a Swiss mate says - they always sold Fiats as soon as the warranty ran out! LOL
Another mate says you always pushed your Ducati home - until they went over to Japanese electrics.
Then you knew you were going to get home. LOL

Me - I'd go for an Isuzu or Fuso 4WD truck over the Daily, anytime. But we all choose what suits us, and wear the choices.

This bloke has some nice little truck-type rigs. Hate to think what they cost, though.

Earthcruiser

Earthcruisers in production

Cheers, Ron.

A bit more research finds that the original Iveco engines (2.5L and 2.8L) were built by SOFIM - Societa Franco Italiana Motori - which was originally a joint diesel engine enterprise between Fiat, Saviem (Renault) and Alfa Romeo. SOFIM was established in 1974 and was bought by Iveco in 1981. These engines were built from 1978-2006.

However, the newest 3.0L common rail Iveco engine (2006-on) is called the JTD engine, and this stands for uniJet Turbo Diesel.

The JTD engine is strictly a Fiat design engine, although some of the smaller displacement JTD engines came from the failed Fiat-GM merger - and GM retained the rights to a couple of the smaller JTD engines when they left the joint venture.

The 2nd generation JTD engine in the Daily is called the Multijet or Multijet Power.
The 3.0L Multijet is used in the Fiat Ducato van, the Iveco Daily, and the Iveco Massif.

The Massif was a Spanish-built heavily-modified copy of the Landrover Defender, built by the Andulusian company Santana.
However, the Santana company closed down in 2011 due to poor sales, and a decision by Iveco to end the joint venture agreement with Santana.

SOFIM engines

JTD engine

Darryl,

Thanks for your candid warts and all appraisal. I am lead to believe the 4WD is a fairly different beast to the 2WD at least in it's latest incarnation. It does sound like the electronics could be a bit tricky both in reliability and getting someone to even tackle them if something went wrong well away from a capital city. As you probably know the Ozzy bush can bring out the worst in vehicles that aren't built to suit.
On paper their specs seem quite good but that don't mean squat when it stops miles from nowhere.

Cheers
Pop

Darryl, I'm a little puzzled by your statement about the "2.3 litre" engine.

Is that a typo? According to all my info, the Turbo Daily 35C-14 used the 2.5L engine up until year 2000 - then the 2.8L diesel from 2000-2006 - then the 3.0L engine from 2006 to the current model.

Cheers, Ron.

Hi Ron

My van isn't outside atm( lives elsewhere
).... maybe it is a 35c-12? (sorry if i got that wrong) mine is a late 2005 plate but runs 2006 engine etc.

It is definately a 2.3litre HPT .. i used to have a lot of trouble getting matches for my vehicle, when searching using the 2005 data... i went into an iveco dealer who told me to use 2006 for engine purposes.
Again sometimes hard to find which one, because a couple came out with the same volume, my engine is the 136kw? one not the lower powered one. ( i am not sure if it is JDT or multijet.... i know it is the variable turbo (HighPower Turbo) Hope that helps

Darryl - You're correct - you have the models right, the 35C-14 - and the newest generation engine JDT engine, which comes in 2 capacities - 2.3L and 3.0L.
My info didn't mention the 2.3L is a current engine.

The Iveco page talks HP, which surprises me, I thought they only talked Kw.
Perhaps the webpage is aimed at the U.S. market, although it's a Norwegian webpage.
They state the 2.3L comes in 96, 116 and 136HP versions.
This engine appears to be only fitted to the 2WD Daily - while the 4WD Daily gets only the 3.0L engine.

Iveco Daily Euro 4 engines

Cheers, Ron.

G,day Jim,

Nice to hear from someone that has owned and used one for what it was intended for.
While my old Cruiser ute doesn't have the grunt of the V8 the 1HD-FT manages to haul it's overloaded self and a van around. It even manages to go most places I am dumb enough to point it and reasonably expect a wheeled vehicle to go.
The Iveco does seem to be a somewhat different beast but as I age so am I...lol.
Debogging rarely is an enjoyable way to spend a couple of hours. Getting stuck in the chocolate pudding that lurks beneath the crust of Lake Disappointment was not an episode that I look back on fondly.
It sounds like you are a pretty happy owner so far but if I may be so rude 15,000 k's to me is still the first blush of marital happiness.
I do most sincerely appreciate your input but I think I may wait a little longer before taking the plunge. Having said that the concept of the Iveco still interests me.

Cheers
Pop

on the matter of getting bogged.....big wheels and lots of ground clearance...and some weight... count for a hell of a lot.

remember there are two major factors to getting bogged...loss of traction and loss of momentum......more weight means more momentum...and more traction.

A while beck I drove a heavy tipper fore a while..one of the regular jobs was carting mud and driving on mud.....this was a more or less typical tipper with duals on both axles in the rear and no drive in the front...in this case a tourque splitter lock but no diff lock .....we drove over stuff that a light commercial bassed 4wds would not have a hope of getting over.

while the weight will be a big issue once actually bogged its not always a disadventage while still moving.

but the problem remains..as it does with any more capable vehicle......if you have a very capable vehicle...who is going to recover you.

I met a bloke with a Pensgower ( spelling who knows)..a 6 wheel drive military thing....rediculously capable......he commented that he was not inclined to push his luck....because if he needed recovering, most other 4wds would not be able to get near it.

the solution in somthing that big is...don't get bogged...:)

cheers

Ah yes, no truer words. Avoid at all costs. I have a dual motor winch, 17000 pound pull, and a 8 ton pulley, so I can pull at 340000 pounds. I have used it to pull the truck up a very steep (steep enough to slide down backwards for 50 meters) wet grassy hill, so I know it works. I am equipped as I can be, now it relates to avoidance ha ha
I have 12 inch x 37 dia tyres, with reduced pressure I am hoping they will also help.
But I am a realist, they all go down at some time, and it will be a bad day. Reckon I might crack a beer or 2, camp the night, and face it the next day?

Big tyres and plenty of clearance don't count for sh*t if you drive in the wrong place.



Bloke on the right bogged it, and the fellar on the left wasn't smiling after two days digging :-) Pulled it out on the 3rd day, with a grader.

Bob

don't drive in the wrong place. cheers

Bantam,
sorry but you don't seem to have much experience with breaking the crust, especially in Tea Tree country and I don't mean the costal type.
It is just like Coles. Down, down ,down, down and the heavier you are the more you suffer.

Bob Y,
if you come through the Curry at night in the next few days, no exhaust brakes please.

Ha ha, no worries, Slow.

Won't be me for a few months. "Retired" for the winter months while The Boss gets over her double knee replacements.

Usually go through the 'Curry late afternoons, both ways, unless there's been a drama. If it's late I'm like the proverbial church mouse, but the bloody truck is like.....ah, rowdy.

Cya,
Bob

Bantam,
sorry but you don't seem to have much experience with breaking the crust, especially in Tea Tree country and I don't mean the costal type.
It is just like Coles. Down, down ,down, down and the heavier you are the more you suffer.

Yeh well that would be the wrong place then wouldn't it.

If the track is not suitable for a 4 tonne truck....well it probably wont be suitable for a land cruser towing a 3 tonne rolling gin palace either.

Not everybody wants to "do the hard tracks" and in a vehicle that big there are a number of issues that a sensible person would consider before taking it certain places......I know several places that you would not get under the overhanging timber.

bit with the carrying and towing capacity dragging a jimni or or maybe a hovercraft behind is a reasonable thing.

cheers

Forgot to mention, a bit more background on the truck, The Iveco Daily 4x4 is built by SCAM Trucks http://www.scamtrucks.it

under licence from Steyer, http://www.sti-steyr.com/sti-tactical/light-tactical/ltv-hd/

a well respected supplier of Millitary hardware,

also check out Bremach T-Rex

the only part in common with the 2WD Iveco Daily is the Cab and Engine, and some electricals. Earlier generation 4x4 Dailys are a totally different vehicle with IFS and can not be used as a comparison,

Too true about the price, Bantam :-)

Few months back, a 'Mog sat on the forecourt of BP in Cloncurry, for about a fortnight. Both rear axles removed, along with all the drop box parts.

Obviously their spare parts backup isn't as fast as Caterpillar?

Bob