Marine batteries

Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 11:49
ThreadID: 108300 Views:4813 Replies:7 FollowUps:31
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Hello all ,
notice on this forum marine batteries get a lot of mention and reccomendations but not many particulars such as brand , cost etc ??
Can skp spell it out in detail please ?
Brian
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Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 13:33

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 13:33
Brian - Marine batteries are usually built to a higher standard of durability than regular batteries, thus the big following.
I think you'll find most of the better-known manufacturers have marine batteries as part of their product lineup.

I use the major well-known brands, and make sure they have a long warranty. If a manufacturer can't guarantee his battery for 3 yrs at least, he hasn't got much confidence in it - and neither do I.

My favourite at present is Supercharge Gold for starter batteries. I've currently got a Supercharge Gold in the ute, that I purchased in March 2004 - and it still starts the ute hot or cold, like the day I bought it!

Supercharge have a marine line of batteries, as do Exide, Century, AC-Delco, and probably a dozen more brand names than I can't recall at present.

You need to select your battery for its intended use - use a starter battery in automotive applications, and deep cycle batteries in caravans and applications where you're using it power fridges and accessories.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 14:19

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 14:19
Speaking of Supercharge Gold, they are on special for 20% off at Auto One stores (in WA at least) starting today.

I just picked up a 70Z size for my boat, $167.

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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 20:39

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 20:39
Been a common thing to do since auxillary batteries first went under bonnets of 4wds.
I use the Century N70ZM - 100Ah and $153:
http://www.batterydiscounters.com.au/marine.html

Other benefits are the better terminals with both post and wingnut, and its nice to have a battery where you can top up the water.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 20:57

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 20:57
Phil - Not all marine batteries are able to be topped up.
I've seen a lot being advertised as being fully sealed - and they were amongst the major brands, too.

Of course, no battery is ever 100% sealed, they all have venting of some kind, in case they're overcharged.
However, the fully sealed ones will not spill acid in the event of a major upset, such as big wave flipping your boat.

I was snooping around AutoBarn today (actually one of the old Malz stores they took over) and I see where they have Supercharge Gold Plus now, with a 40 mth warranty.

They're all still too dear, though. LOL

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:21

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:21
Phil G You have done well to purchase a N70ZM for $153 ! Store in Pt Augusta today are asking $208.16 for the same battery described as Marine Pro Battery ,12 volt 730cca 2 year warranty
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Follow Up By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:25

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:25
And that was before GST was added !
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:30

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:30
Yes, they are a small workshop with great prices for Century and optima batteries and a real human being behind the desk. Have been that way for quite a few years (no affiliation, just like to support a local small business who offers great prices).
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:30

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:30
Just to add, that the Century Marine come with 24 months replacement warranty. Which is twice as long as any wet cell deep cycle or AGM.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 23:39

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 23:39
I had to chuckle at the BatteryGuru website, where they're flogging Chinese Neuton batteries - and they're actually bragging about a "failure rate of less than 1%!!".

Perhaps if they explained, that a failure rate of 1%, means that 1 in every 100 of their batteries is a dud - it wouldn't sound such a good sales pitch! LOL

If they were talking about a failure rate of 0.001%, I might be more inclined to buy one! [;-)
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Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 21:45

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 21:45
"Marine" batteries are a rugged construction battery, some manufacturers also sell a battery under a "4wd" or "earthmoving" badge.....one major manufacturer sells the exact same battery with a different colour case as a marine battery and a 4wd battery...interesting in supercheap auto the 4wd version on the same shelf is more expensive...hmmm

Marine batteries generally have better cranking better self discharge and better deep cycle performance than a similar standard battery.

if you want to get into the detail go onto one of the battery companies that actually puts ups some specs and compare different batteries of the same size.
The supercharge site is not bad and contains a number of different battery types of the same size...and they show a fair bunch of specs.

Most batteries intended for auromotive use do not come with an AH capacity specified....why.....good question....but you can get some idea from the reserve capacity.
From the reserve capacity you should be able to extrapolate the C10 amp hour capacity.

so what makes a marine battery different.
heavier construction all round..
heavier plates, better supported
glass mat between the plates to controll the electrolite and dampen vibration.

if it is a sealed maintenence free battery, it will have many of the technological advances that allow AGM to exist...they just run more electrolite than an AGM or other "starved elecrolite battery'.
That means
modified electrolite, glass mat between the plates and calcium in the plates

the modified electrolite and calcium in the plates improves just about every measure of battery performance, in addition to allowing the battery to be sealed.

I too run "supercharge seamaster gold" in the 4wd in both cranking and aux positions..and in my boats....Id run one in my work ute..if there was a seamaster that would fit.

a M70 size seamaster gold......same size an an N70 typical of many 4wds and light trucks should cost you around $200....less if you shop well..seem they have increased their warranty from 24 months to 3+years.......as an indicator of their confidence in the gold...compare the warranty given on other batteries in their range.......their standard seamaster screwtop battery only rates 12 months warranty

As has been mentioned the seamaster gold is one of the very few sealed batteries that you can actually top up....once out of warranty...they are a proper valve regulated sealed lead acid battery...its just that the vent valve assembiles can be screwed out once the top sticker is removed.

I know a lot of people push deep cycle in aux batteries.....If like me you wish to crank or winch off your aux...you are better off with a cranking battery.

Consider too that the marine batteries have far better deep cycle tolerance than a standard battery....maybe not as good as a "proper deep cycle"

But if you run marine batteries you can afford twice as much capacity( deep cycle AGM is typically twice the price).....so for a given loading..you cycle half as deep any way.

The other benifit of running cranking battery is that they will tolerate having the charge current hammered into them.....many deep cycles will not....this may result in the need for a DC to DC charge to limit the charge current.

As for the comparison with AGM.....sorry I believe that AGM is very much oversold....all the good sealed marine batteries use all the technology that AGM does...but they just run more acid...more acid makes them more tolerant of heat, higher charge rates and overchanging.

lost of people go out and pay top dollar for AGM and or deep cycle..and because of ignorance or inattention to their battery, manage to kill those batteries in very short order.
Never benifiting from paying twice the price or more for their batteries.

NOW if you have a serious battery system and are very seriuos about your DC supply and manage it well.....you may well benift from spending the extra $$$ on exotic batteries.

But for most of us that just want to hold up a fridge and some lights for a day or two then charge up as fast as possible.....marine batteries may well be the go.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 22:08

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 22:08
How did you know that the batteries were exactly the same?

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 22:34

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 22:34
Extrasensory perception. lol
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 23:30

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2014 at 23:30
20 years ago I went to a 4wd show and a battery mob had their batteries on display. I asked the guy what the difference was with their deep cycle versions and he confessed that they just put a different sticker on it and reduce the warranty to 6 months.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:55

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 20:55
The two batteries in question ARE the same....the battery reps will tell you that and the specifcations support the matter.
one comes in a yellow case the other in a blue case..different sticker.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:56

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:56
Another point about battery warranties, is that the warranty is not transferable in the case of a claim.
The companies are fully within their legal rights to do this.

We had a standard Supercharge battery in the Missus's Camry that came with a 30 month "private vehicle" warranty.
Rather surprisingly to me, the battery totally failed without warning at 27 months.

Took it around to the Supercharge bloke (their distributorship is just around the corner from my workshop), he tested it, agreed it was a dud, and a warranty claim - and gave us a new one.
However, he made it clear the warranty on the new battery was only the residual amount of the warranty on the original battery - 3 months!

Fortunately the replacement battery is performing just fine after more than 3 yrs.
With any luck, the Camry will be traded this year, before I have to replace the battery again - at my cost!
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 22:49

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 22:49
Hey Bantam,

Your quotes................

"The two batteries in question ARE the same....the battery reps will tell you that and the specifcations support the matter."

"Just because someone sells batteries, it does not mean they know much about them or are telling the truth."

Well which is it? You can't have it both ways! FDL
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 17:38

Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 17:38
So allan are you failing to comprehend written english or do you have difficulty with logical reasoning.

The two statements are not mutually exclusive.


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Reply By: Gronk - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 00:18

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 00:18
Just happened to be in a Repco store today, and was looking at batts, and checked out their marine hybrid type battery...730CCA......100 a/h.....$230..

On the vent caps cover was Yuasa !! If it was in fact a rebranded Yuasa, then I'd be happy to part with the hard earned.......have had excellent runs out of Yuasa batts as OE batts in cars and 4wd's from new !!
AnswerID: 534606

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 01:20

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 01:20
Gronk, I'll back Yuasa any day, too (actually, they are "GS Yuasa" for automotive applications). Yuasa make motorbike batteries and the smaller sealed LA batteries.

The last Yuasa I had went for 9yrs and 10 mths before it died.
You can still buy Yuasa, but they aren't easy to acquire, and they ask "premium" prices for them.

Yuasa bought Century batteries, and Centurys factory in Carole Park builds all the Century batteries - but they also make the GS Yuasa batteries as well, I believe. I don't think they import any Jap-built GS Yuasa batteries any more - unless they come in a vehicle, straight from Japan.

Here's the GS Yuasa webpage link - you find your model battery on the battery finder, and then call them, and they then tell you where you can buy one.

GS Yuasa batteries

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 00:46

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 00:46
Thanks once again to everyone who have been so helpfull . My situation is as follows
I drive an old Tojo HJ61 and it has a twin battery set up but they work as separate systems , the cranking battery is new and should be fine for a long time . The other battery is stuffed and is used to run an Engels fridge ( not sure of the actual size but is a portable type and i think uses about 2amp hours ?? ) So what i'm thinking is i will purchase a deep cell battery for this aprox 100 ah but not a AGM type because of their supposed dislike of heat which is always there under the bonnet .
Then there is the need in the caravan for a decent sized deep cell battery ( at least 100 odd ah ?? ) perhaps i could go an AGM in there ?? Ok so what i have at present to charge a new battery in the van is charge from Tojo via an Anderson plug , solar panel on roof of van but not sure the size , maybe 80 watts , and i do have a new Honda 2kv generator for backup which has an inbuilt charger but noticed that the power lead for the charger is very short , so in an emergency to charge up the van battery i would almost have to take it ( the battery ) out of its " home " under the seat in the van to charge it . All is good if i wanted to charge the aux battery under the bonnet as the length of power cable required is not so great . Hope my queries are not too obvious!
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Follow Up By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 01:04

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 01:04
Sorry i forgot to specify what my power needs are in the van ! No doubt the major one is the compressor type fridge /freezer that will only run on 12 volt , again not absolutely sure of its size but not bad size for a van , freezer compartment is minimal , have changed most of my lighting to 12 volt . Then of course there is the incidentals such as phone chargers , air con ( wont be needing that in Tassie in July !! ) etc etc. Hope to camp out as much as possible with the occasional stay at a park .
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 01:30

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 01:30
Brian, here's the simplest description of the main differences between a deep cycle battery and an automotive starting battery.

Yuasa - Deep cycle VS automotive batteries explained

No battery likes heat, regardless of type of construction. If you can keep them cool, they will all last a lot longer.

I trust the battery under the seat in the van is vented - there have long discussions on here about the need to ensure your caravan battery is vented to the atmosphere, not to the inside of your van.
Even "sealed" batteries can give off gases, because none of them are 100% sealed.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 09:47

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 09:47
Thanks Ron N , yes i am aware of the need for venting orthodox lead acid batteries but thought i would be ok with a sealed one but as you so helpfully point out that they are not completely sealed
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 09:44

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 09:44
Brian,

Just my take. A cranking battery is designed to put out heaps of amps for a short time, typically 3-400 to start the engine. A deep cycle either AGM or wet cell is designed to put out a smaller amount of amps but for much longer duration to run our fridges, camp lights etc. This is why the 2 have their ratings expressed differently. CCA v AH.
It amuses me when people say that marine batteries are built to take more of a pounding. How much more of a pounding could a battery be asked to take then spending days on end enduring the dreaded corrugations, rock strewn creek crossings and washaways encountered on many of our favourite bush tracks. Yes boats can and do hit waves that feel like they have rocks in them but are still made of water.
As far as I can see the primary reason to go for a "marine" battery is to try and get the best of both worlds, sort of a compromise. If space is restricted then one or these is probably not a bad solution in as much as it will perform both functions to a degree.
As I said just my opinion, if you have the room for 2 batteries use a cranking type as a starter, winching battery and a deep cycle either AGM or flooded for powering your fridge and other camping gear. If there is no other mounting option than under the bonnet I would use a wet cell type. You can always replenish the lost water easily. If you can put the battery well away from a heat source such as the engine an AGM will always be my choice.
Next of course is your charging regime. No lead acid battery likes to be discharged below about 50% repeatedly and no battery likes to be left discharged for long periods. With the options you have with the vehicle alternator, especially an older type without all the reduced charging voltage algorithms, a solar panel and your genny as a last resort managed properly you should be ok.
Just not sure about using the 12v output to charge your batteries. I would use the 240v and a proper battery charger.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 534616

Follow Up By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:01

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:01
And thanks for your helpful opinions Pop , but just left a tad wondering about your comment " Just not sure about using the 12 volt
output to charge your batteries . I would use the 240v and a proper battery charger " I am under the impression that the charger inbuilt in the Honda generator is a ok unit with all the different stages ??
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:19

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:19
From the info I have most of the 12v outlets on these gennys are basically to provide a supply to run whatever bit of gear you need the 12v for.
I guess in simple terms that outlet is a "battery" type of supply, not really intended to charge another battery. I don't think it is regulated like a dedicated battery charger.
Having said that, if it was me and I desperatley needed to charge a flat battery to get my car started I would give it a go, it would most certainly be better than nothing.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:28

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:28
Pop, the marine batteries are generally built heavier. They have thicker plates and a thicker case, and the plates are bonded at the bottom, to the case, to prevent plate movement that fractures the plates at the top.
Marine battery plates are generally in the order of 4mm thick, as compared to starter batteries at 1.5mm thick. The thinner plates promote high amperage draw for starting.
Marine batteries are designed more towards a deep cycle design.

Now that you mention it, earthmoving-use and heavy duty truck batteries, such as Cat batteries, are supposed to be built exactly the same as marine batteries!

One of the interesting things about marine batteries is that in use, they self-discharge at twice the rate, of say a 4WD battery, because of the salty air (about 2% a week for a land-based battery and 3.5% a week for a boat battery).
So in a marine environment, regular top-up charging is critical.

One of the main self-discharge loss areas in a 4WD, truck or tractor battery is in the dust and dirt that sits on top of the battery.
Ironstone gravel dust combined with salty moisture (remembering that the salt content of the soil in many inland areas is high) results in a much higher self-discharge rate than is desirable - so keep the top of your battery clean with a regular wash-down.

I guess the main difference between the design aimed at reliability of a marine battery, and the design of a regular car battery, is - you can't walk home in the case of a dead boat battery! [;-)

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:33

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:33
Brian,

Sorry mate just had a quick look in my Honda 2.0 handbook. They do say it's ok to use the 12v supply to charge batteries. From memory the guy who sold me the unit many years ago said that unlike normal battery chargers that can be left connected while cranking an engine the Honda 12v supply can be damaged unless it is removed before cranking.
I guess that is where I got the idea that the supply was not regulated.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:44

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:44
Brian,

Get a 25 amp charger, like a Ctek, and then you won't have to run the genny for as long. Peace 'n quiet, and a full battery. Think the Honda only charges @ 8 amps?

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:00

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:00
Actually I still have the 2 old cranking batteries in the shed at home. I just use them if I need 12v to test a starter or some 12v bit of gear.
They are the best part of 12 years old but do take a charge. They just don't hold it for more than about a week. When we get back from this trip I will give the 12v outlets on the Honda a go at charging them and monitor the voltage and amps.
Give me a good excuse to spend a bit of time in the shed. You know, important research. (;-))

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:43

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:43
Marine batteries are most definitely designed to take more pounding.....boats may run on water, but thay also have no suspension or shockabsorbers.

If you doubt that there is pounding and vibration involved in boats...get ya self into a lightly loaded aluminium boat running at speed over a chop..particularly sitting direct on a hard aluminium bench..then tell me that is not comparable to corigations.

the other factor is many marine applications are deep cycle by nature...changing systems in outboard motors particiularly the smaller ones are piss blody poor.
My 60Hp evenrude has a charging system that outputs a massive 12 amps max....at low revs it may be producing as little as 4 amps...that is typical of most motors under 100Hp.
smaller outboards have crude unregulated magneto chargeing systems that put out as little as 3.5 amps ringing wet.

very often there is insufficient run time to replace the energy drawn in a days boating/

many outboards have no changing system at all....So the electrical system is total loss..some users may run several days fishing between charges.

some people camp in relativly small boats for days at a time...I know people who roll out a sleeping bag in a 16 foot tinny....if the fish are on.....or camp on islands.

If you are supporting lights, sounder, bait tank, bilge pumps, radio, fridge and other comforts..that represents a moderate deep cycle application.

Not all that different to the sort of situation 4wding, caravanning or camping.

Oh and remember....in a boat ya just cant get out and push..a lighting failure can be life threatening and a failure to start an engine can be a very serious matter in deed.

Good reasons why a marine battery needs to be better than average.

as for marine betteries having less cranking amps than a similar standard car battery......the specs simply do not support that......go the the supercharge web site and compare the specs of different battery types.

cheers
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Reply By: olcoolone - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:17

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:17
Anyone would think these experts live, sell and manufacture batteries for a living......

Have a look at these links

http://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/free-ebook/

http://www.exidebatteries.com.au/battery-range/marine-leisure

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#newwindow=1&q=difference+with+marine+and+deep+cycle+batteries&spell=1
AnswerID: 534620

Follow Up By: Brian - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:25

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:25
Ah well olcoolone maybe !! But wonderful people who do their best to help . I know you are not implying otherwise .Thanks for the links
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:59

Thursday, Jun 19, 2014 at 21:59
Just because someone sells batteries, it does not mean they know much about them or are telling the truth.

Almost every manufacturer web site has half truths, that you will not be aware of unless you know your business or dig deeper in their documentation.

there is a great deal of missinformation out there about batteries......there are many who work with batteries every day..who should know their business...but labour under common misconceptions or are bluntly ignorant.


If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion or nothing specific that is helpfull.....i sugest you refrain from posting.

Remember this IS an "internet discussion forum" critising people for making contributions in good faithis frankly..Hypocritical.

Sorry I call em as I see em.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 13:42

Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 13:42
Bantam - It works like this in olcoolones small world.

A contributor posts opinion/advice: = Armchair expert who doesn't have a clue.

Olcoolone posts opinion/advice: Professional advice of unparalleled quality, which can't be challenged, as it's infallible.

There's one on every forum. Or as my old Sarge would say - "there's one in every troop!".

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 17:39

Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 17:39
No just that there are certain topics that are pretty straight forward and the same people comment with the same comments turning something basic in to a uni degree confusing all involved.

The amount of study and research some put in is exceptional and it shows how dedicated one is to something that most would only put a passing thought to.

It is simple staggering how much one has to know or should know about 4 wheel drives, camping, caravaning and off roading..... no wonder one needs a holiday and decluttering of the mind after they get back from a trip.

Yes Ron N you are nearly right with "There's one on every forum. Or as my old Sarge would say - "there's one in every troop!"...... if you said a few you would be right....... it's even better when you go fishing and you get the prize catch or should I say catches!

So Bantam where did you get you wealth of information on everything?
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 18:50

Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 18:50
Not wasting my time reading fiction, watching soapies, endless cooking shows or killing my brain cells with drugs and alcahol.

I am BTW a working technician that has quite a lot to do with all sorts of stuff...I have worked on some weird S#@t.......batteries included......I am a professional smart A#$@....that is what people pay me for......people ask me because I know stuff.....most of the time

As far as detail......well, that is where I achive results where others fail.

I pay attention to detail and make it my business to spec the right product and apply it within its capacity.

Unfortunately soo may people....do not want to know there are considerable differences between products that look similar on the surface.

There are so many that just do not want to know.....these are the people who say things don't work or cant work.....when I make them work easily.
These are the people who have things fail or disapoint them..because they did not buy the right product or use it corretly....or they where dreaming.

Only today I achieved results for a client by changing some small things that the previous contractor thaught did not matter.
These parts look the same, do the same thing....but knowing the difference got the job done.

One thing I know and prove regularly.....spenging lots of money mostly does not get you a better result..day after day I get results with more modest products that are more appropriate than the far more expensive items some of my competotors sell hard.

Remeber what I said about AGM...I believe it is an oversold and in many cases an unnecessary product....more modest wet cell batteries will often out perform it in the application....but a lot of people don't want to hear that.

cheers

cheers
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 19:18

Friday, Jun 20, 2014 at 19:18
:).... you don't have to prove anything to your self...... really it's OK!
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