Oil Leak

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:21
ThreadID: 108477 Views:4637 Replies:6 FollowUps:10
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I have a Toyota 100 series (Petrol), an RACQ mechanical inspection revealed the timing belt cover is leaking oil. Got under the vehicle and there is definitely wet/fresh oil on the bottom of the motor. As I have just purchased this vehicle (Secondhand) from a dealer and have a months or (less now) statutory warranty I have been advised that the claim will be rejected if it is in a roadworthy condition and I will be charged a $100. Can anyone explain to me at what point does an engine oil leak become un-roadworthy. My understanding is if there is fresh/wet oil present then it is un-roadworthy. this dealer is really playing hard ball with me at the moment. He wont fix the keyless entry or the flashing overdrive light (auto transmission) when it is in overdrive. The owners handbook states there may be a fault with the transmission. Thanks in advance for any thought or experiences.

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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:40

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:40
The keyless entry or the od light flashing doesnt make it unroadworthy.
The oil leak does...
You havnt mentioned if the auto shifts ok, so i guess it does, and you may just have some dirt in a plug....at the end of the day,you need to ask yourself if its worth the hastle, as they will probably put brake fluid in your oil to stop the leak.
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:09

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:09
Hi Dozer, In regards to the key less entry and flashing light, yes you are correct it has nothing to do with roadworthy; however, I have received a warranty and as per the Motor Dealer Act 2000, a defect is something that is supposed to work but doesn't. That is why I am pushing to have it fixed as it was advertised as having it so I want it. The O/D light is flashing and he is telling me it is not. Then he tells me that it is just the bulb that is defective and that the warranty does not cover lights etc as I already know. I believe that the flashing light is a fault code or something but it has to be investigated and zeroed so it doesn't flash. The transmission appears to work well but I am not familiar with auto's I have always had manuals. Anyway the owners manual states there may be a fault with it better to find out now rather than after warranty. I agree about the brake fluid scenario, he isn't happy with me at the moment and my concern is what will they do to the vehicle.
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 21:52

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 21:52
Gday Dozer
How does brake fluid stop an oil seal from leaking.????
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 22:49

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 22:49
Muzbry - Brake fluid makes the rubber in the seal swell, and a lot of times it works.
Power steering seals are notorious for leaks, and you can buy a power steering sealing fluid which is largely brake fluid.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:46

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:46
I will stand corrected if I am wrong but I was under the impression that commercial and 4WD vehicles were subject to some exemptions as far as warranty is concerned. The vehicle does of course have to be fit for purpose but with regard to age. You don't say what year the vehicle is.
Having said that, an oil leak while not something that would automatically have a vehicle declared unroadworthy, would certainly earn a yellow sticker for an oil leak. That's in WA anyway.
As far as the keyless entry and the flashing overdrive light I would doubt he would be required to repair as both issues you would have had an opportunity to inspect and accept or reject at point of purchase.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:20

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:20
Hi pop2jocem, I am in Qld, not sure about commercial and 4wd exemptions, but I have a statutory warranty and regardless of age certain items are covered under warranty and in my case the defects I have detected are certainly covered. Regardless whether the defects were noticed during the test drive or occurred within the warranty period, if they meet the conditions of the warranty IAW the Act then I see no reason why they should not be repaired. With the oil leak though I take it that a yellow sticker is a defect notice?? Anyway, with oil clearly visible under the motor I would think it would not pass a roadworthy. So what you are saying the older the vehicle gets the less roadworthy it has to be, didn't know that one. I thought all veh had to be the same standard (no offence intended).
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosss - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:49

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:49
The best thing you can do is take the vehicle and your copy of the Roadworthy to your nearest Transport Dept inspection station, get them to look at it and if they deem it is unroadworthy they will take it up with the inspection station that gave the roadworthy. Have seen it happen many times in Qld, inspection stations get a VERY BIG SLAP on the wrist and monitored very closely after.
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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 21:03

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 21:03
Hi Rosss, I don't have a roadworthy, RACQ has identified the leak and when I took it back to the dealer and requested it be repaired under warranty the dealer said if it is not un-roadworthy he would refuse to repair and charge me $100 for his time. I am trying to find out at what point does an oil leak become non-roadworthy, bit like asking how long is a piece of string I guess. But thanks for the reply.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 22:03

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 22:03
Gordonk,

Not sure what the Qld equivalent is but in WA if a copper pulls you up and has a quick look over your vehicle and detects an oil leak then he slaps a yellow sticker on it. This does not mean it is unroadworthy, just that you have a certain time to correct the fault and then present it to an inspection station and if all good the yellow sticker is removed. If safety issues are involved such as 4 bald tyres a red sticker is slapped on the windscreen and you cannot drive the vehicle any further. Tow truck job.
As to the warranty side of things, I don't know how different warranty is for where you are but I thought that certain rules applied across all states. Your statutory warranty basically is that the vehicle is fit for purpose. For example if it is sold as a 4WD then it must function as a 4WD. Consider a lets say 20 year old vehicle. Would you expect it to be totally fault free? That is why I mentioned the "regard to age" bit. Obviously you have a different opinion to me regarding what faults should have been obvious to a reasonable person at time of inspection and purpose.
No, you would have to be particularly thick to try offering an excuse to a vehicle inspector that because your vehicle is getting on a bit it doesn't have to be roadworthy. That's not the issue, it's a matter of what the dealer has to fix. As I said the oil leak could be a warrantable repair or not depending on the age of your vehicle but certainly a roadworthy issue. The flashing light and the keyless entry, good luck with that.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 22:53

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 22:53
Pop, thanks for taking the time and effort of your detailed reply. Don't want to get into a bleep contest with you but there is a lot more to this story just didn't want to fill three pages or more. Certain things were stated and promised before the purchase but it is a different story post purchase. I have read the dealers Act and it is pretty clear to me that if something is suppose to work and it doesn't then it gets repaired under warranty, that's where I am coming from. Agree about the age factor. This vehicle has scratches and the like which I can accept, but surely in this day and age I can have a keyless entry that works and the confidence that the transmission is fault free without that annoying flashing light. Anyway it's up to Fair Trading now.

Regards,

Gordonk
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosss - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 16:16

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 16:16
In Queensland the seller of a motor vehicle, be it a private individual or a dealer must give the buyer the YELLOW copy of the roadworthy, if you do not have this copy then the dealer is legally liable to give you your copy of the roadworthy which in turn you can take to the transport department if you think the roadworthy was not done properly.
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Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:02

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:02
There is a point where you realise that waranties on used vehicles are worth very little....still

It is a reality in vehicles of some age that certain oil seals need replacing.....front main and rear main oils seals are two common candidates.....in most cases the part is relativly cheap, but it is the time taken to get in there that is the major cost.

The dealer is trying to get out of paying for the best part of a days labour to pull out the radiator and take most of the front of the motor off to change the front main oil seal.

I don't know the 100 series motor so i don;t know if it has a timing belt or what...but it is usual to change the front oil seal when you change the timing belt.

so do you want to push it or not

If it was me..I'd be doing it my self and checking a few things while I was in there.

I baught a corrona a several years ago...not my best purchase...the timimg belt had been changed...but they did not change the idler pully......this them proceded to drop its bearings and exit thru the front timing cover.

I learned my lesson...when I baught my current hilux......the dealer said they had replaced the timimg belt....I did not trust them..so I set about replacing the timimg belt, tensioner, idler pully water pump and front main engine seal......well to my surprise the belt, tensioner and water pump had been replaced....but they had not changed the front main engine seal...go figure.
While I was in there I replaced the alternator, cleaned up the various brackets and tensioners, replaced one of the fan belt idlers and gave the cooling system a good flushing.

doing this myself was not a great expense....but this is the sort of thing you expect from a used vehicle with some age under it.

At least now I know what has been done and I have most definitely bypassed some things that may have given trouble at some time.

for the most part you will have an uphill battle getting anything fixed under any warranty on a used car that is not a major failure.

Its a used car..unless it is only a couple of years old..you have to expect to sped some money on it.


cheers
AnswerID: 534966

Reply By: cruza25 - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:05

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:05
The stat warranty covers cars up to 10years or 160000km. It covers you for 3months or 5000 kms
The seller should fix all the faults apart from the following items.


6. The statutory warranty DOES NOT cover Under the Act, the following defects are NOT covered by the Statutory Warranty: • Any defect in tyres, batteries, lights and radiator hoses. • A defect in the vehicle’s fitted airbag. • A defect in the vehicle’s installed radio, tape recorder or CD player. • A vehicle accessory prescribed under a regulation. • For a Class B warranted vehicle, a defect in the vehicle’s air conditioning system. • Any defect in a vehicle’s paintwork or upholstery that should have been apparent on any reasonable inspection of the vehicle before the buyer took delivery. • Any defect after the buyer takes delivery arising from or incidental to any acciden tal damage to the vehicle or arising from the Buyer’s misuse or negligence. • Any defect in an accessory to the vehicle not fitted to the vehicle when sold to the Buyer. The following used vehicles are NOT covered by this statutory warranty: a) an unregistered motor vehicle that is i) incapable of being registered in Queensland because of its design; or ii) a written-off vehicle; or b) a motor vehicle sold on consignment, unless the owner of the vehicle is a motor dealer or auctioneer; or c) a caravan; or d) a motorcycle; or e) a commercial vehicle. A commercial vehicle is a vehicle built mainly for carrying or hauling goods or designed to carry more that nine persons. However, a utility with a nominal load carrying capacity of one tonne or less is not a commercial vehicle and has a Statutory Warranty.

list all faults in writing then follow up with the office of fair trading.

good luck.. mike
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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:21

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:21
Exactly Mike, that's what I have done. There it is in black and white, no confusion at all to me. The dealer has refused all of my requests for repair at this stage. I have lodged a formal complaint with Fair Trading. Just for your info, the Act defines a defect as:

a. a part of the vehicle does not perform its intended function; or
b. a part of the vehicle has deteriorated to an extent where it can not reasonably be relied on to perform its intended function.
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Reply By: brushmarx - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 09:02

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 09:02
I have been told by a mechanic I use for safety certificates in Qld is that it is only considered as failing an inspection due to an oil leak if it actually drips oil off the vehicle while the inspection in being undertaken.
I had a '96 Grand Cherokee that tended to drop a small amount and usually showed damp oil under the transmission, and all it took was a wipe off before dropping it in for the inspection, and as long as no new drop occurred withing the 20 minutes or so while on the hoist, it passed.
Cheers.
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Reply By: Member - Rob S (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:38

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:38
Hi Gordonk

Nine times out off ten the oil leak on the front of the engine is the oil pump cover/housing seal, on the 1ZFE petrol engine.not the timing cover,
Not a real big job to repair, can be done with the radiator in place. the counter sunk screws can be a little tight to remove. just need the correct size phillips head driver, and tap it firmly into the screw,then using a 1/4 socket drive to undo it.
Can't help you with the warranty stuff.

Rob.


I only ever made one mistake
and that's when I thought I was wrong!

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