Vacuum Oil changer

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:02
ThreadID: 108568 Views:2318 Replies:9 FollowUps:17
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Sick of burning myself with hot oil and messing my garage floor with an oil change. Have been looking at DIY oil changes by vacuuming the oil out via the oil filler tube (as they do in U.S.A.). I see there are are a few manual vacuum models with long tube for insertion to sump and a 5 to 9 litre container that works as a resovoir. Does any savvy user have some input on this. Was thinking perhaps 12Volt pump, some semi rigid tubing tubing (to prevent collapse) a couple of worm clamps and a receiving receptable should do the trick. Would need to vacuum out diesel from my Triton and Hyundai Crdi diesel.

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:10

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:10
I change oil cold and let it drain for half hour, exactly the same as hot if changed regularly! Michael
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Follow Up By: wholehog - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:14

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:14
Same here..I dunno why people do it hot, and with the oil galleries and internals freshly filled/coated with oil that could have drained down and accumulated in the sump and to be replaced...
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Follow Up By: Triton man - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:25

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:25
Hi Michael and wholehog,

Thanks for prompt response, I think I must be old school. Interested in what others say re HOT vs. COLD. One (1) thing does remain, the mess !! I manage to get it in the suspension arms, on the floor, heaps of rags, and dirty hands and nails, gloves just don't do it for me but appreciate your comments and look forward to further discussion on hot vs. cold

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Follow Up By: grant t1 - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:30

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 20:30
any one heard of this...

Service warning: Mazda BT-50 / Ford Ranger new generation 5cyl diesel models UP0YF1 – When draining the oil, ensure that the total drain time does not exceed 10 minutes.

Field reports indicated that there may be an issue with the variable-flow oil pump fitted to Mazda’s new generation BT-50, 5 cylinder common rail diesel engine.


A new feature in the BT-50’s engine is the variable-flow oil pump that helps maximize fuel efficiency. Rather than the conventional fixed-flow gear drive oil pump, it is accomplished with a chain driven oil pump located in the sump that matches the oil supply to the engine load. The variable-flow pump changes its capacity based on the engine’s demand for oil, by rotating the eccentric outer ring. This prevents wasting energy to pump oil that is not required to maintain engine operation.

These variable-flow pumps are much like power steering pumps, using vane elements in their design with the added ability to control flow rates at varied engine speeds. When the vehicle has the oil drained for an extended amount of time, the oil drains not only from the sump, but internally from the pump assembly. The vane type design appears to be less tolerable to being allowed to drain out and recover from that state thereafter.

Reports to Autodata are that if the engine oil and filter are changed in service and the oil is left to drain longer than 10 minutes, the oil pump may fail to prime and leave the engine in a critical no lubrication situation. Attempts to prime the pump by increasing the rpm fails to solve the problem, and will lead to component failure from lack of lubrication.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 03:11

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 03:11
"I dunno why people do it hot"
perhaps a good example is what happens when you wash a big load of dishes in the sink, let the water sit for a few hours then pull the plug.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 09:03

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 09:03
fisho64 is in the money why you do it hot.
A perfect example.

Cold can mean an accumulation of the larger particles which don't remain in the oil and precipitate as the oil cools, those particles not then being transported out of the engine.

Sucking the oil out as the Yanks love to do, rarely ensures all the dirty oil is extracted and therefore will result in a higher % of dirty with the clean.
Good enough for the Yanks I suppose.

If you have a CRD with a turbo I would like to start at least with the cleanest oil I can have in there via a hot/at least warm, sump plug drain.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 15:55

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 15:55
Hi all! I suppose everyone does what they think best suits them, and fair enough but with modern oils, the inside of the engine remains clean except for a film of oil. I remember in the 70's, when I used to frequent wrecking yards and I remember seeing a Valiant with the rocker cover removed, it was caked thick with hard sludge, it was impossible to see the rockers and shafts but oils have changed since then. I cant remember seeing any lumps, large particles and the like in oil for decades. I also have fitted a 1 micron bypass filter so I know what is in the sump is very clean. But hot or cold, as long as you change oil and filter regularly, your engine shouldn't let you down mechanically! Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

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Follow Up By: wholehog - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 18:31

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 18:31
fisho64 posted:
"I dunno why people do it hot"
"perhaps a good example is what happens when you wash a big load of dishes in the sink, let the water sit for a few hours then pull the plug."

Fisho..
An engine is not a sink with food scraps or a bath with animal fat soap.

In your scenario, every time the engine sits and cools, a new layer of "whatever" forms on the bottom of the sump...how then is that reinvigorated and included into the engine oil ready for removal when pulling the sump plug with hot oil?

Same with oil baths, ie..camshafts...your scenario indicates it will eventually fill with "whatever".

Modern oils hold carbon/soot and corrosive combustion by-products in suspension and it is also captured by the filter medium.

Contemporary electronic managed high pressure fuel systems and computer managed ignition/timing systems keep even diesels very clean internally these days.

The time that contaminants and moisture do separate and adhere in an under-serviced or mechanically damaged engine is actually during engine operation and temperature, and with a hot engine, it is vapourisation that occurs...and guess where that goes...the same place the steam does in your sink of hot water... up to the ceiling....top of the engine, valve/rocker cover.

Take the lid and bottom off a few modern maintained engines..Fisho, there is not the settled accumulation you fear downstairs.
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Follow Up By: wholehog - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 18:35

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 18:35
"oss M posted:
fisho64 is in the money why you do it hot.
A perfect example....

If you have a CRD with a turbo I would like to start at least with the cleanest oil I can have in there via a hot/at least warm, sump plug drain."

The best way to replace the maximum used oil with new oil is to release it after a drain time.

What is the issue with a CRD with a turbo..? They are a far cleaner engine than an mechanical injected diesel by far.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 19:48

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 19:48
I work with the latest CAT 3516 common rails, and Cat still recommend both sampling and changing oil when hot.

Correct they do stay cleaner longer, but I personally havent seen ANY manufacturer recommend cold oil changes-if you have Id be more than curious to know which ones.

It doesnt worry me how you guys do it, but certainly with the older indirect injection Toyotas and Nissans etc, cold oil changes are a recipe for disaster.
They DO leave suspension and end up caked on the bottom of the sump especially in extreme cases.
I have had to push a welding rod in after removing the sump plug from a 3L Hilux, unknown km on oil.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:14

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:14
Stab in the dark but I suspect most dealer oil changes are done cold or mildly warm at best?
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Follow Up By: Triton man - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:32

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:32
Damn right Bazooka, that is just one of the reasons I do it myself

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Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 21:33

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 21:33
Years ago I bought one for my ski boat, as the only way to drain the oil was to dump it in the bilge then drain it out the bung hole in the transom.
Saved for weeks and it never worked.
Part of the problem is that the dipstick tube is very small, a tube to fit down is even thinner. Trying to suck heavy viscous fluid up a small tube needed a lot of suction, probably more than the little pump could produce.

Just as easy to dump the contents to the bilge.

Alan
AnswerID: 535311

Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 22:21

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2014 at 22:21
Plenty of people seem to whinge about the trouble and inconvienience of draining oil.

Mostly is is simply because they are not well organised.

A drain contaier of adequate size and capacity is a very big issue...most of the commercial drain tubs are too small for 4wds and light trucks...I still manage with them and don't spill much.

One great option is to cut down a 60 liter drum to the right height.
Another issues is corretly handling the drain plug.....if you keep pressure on the drain plug till all the threads are disengaged then remove the plug from the oriface to the side or above....you can keep you fingers reasonably clean.

As far as getting burnt....oh please....draing the oil warm is still a good polocy.....but just let the sump cool a little before you drain...when the outside of the sump is not burning hot.....neither will the oil in side be.......there is no benifit to draining HOT HOT HOT.

If you realy don't like to get you hands dirty..wear gloves....the best gloves for the job a blue high risk medical gloves...my local panelbeaters supplier carries them

There is another option if you realy want to....that is ..replace your sump plug with an oil drain valve...there are several on the market....some you can fit a hose to.

Yes some mechanics DO suck the oil out of cars thru the dip stick.....but it requires a fairly serious pump.

AND of course its very likley it does not get all the oil out right to the bottom.....which is part of the reason for draining hot..to get as much oil out as possible.

For my part I throw a quarter to half a liter of fresh cold oil down the top of the motor after most of the oil has drained.....it will sink to the bottom and the hotter dark oil will come out the sump plug.

cheers


AnswerID: 535316

Reply By: Member - escapesilv - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:06

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:06
Hi Triton man.

I normally do use a manual vacuum oil changer, I have no issue sucking the hot oil out via the dip stick tube from my 2010 Diesel Challenger, have used this system for years and never had a problem.

Hope this helps.

cheers Rob
AnswerID: 535324

Follow Up By: Triton man - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 09:16

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 09:16
Wow, Certainly started a HOT vs. COLD war on oil changing, personally I believe in draining warm to hot so as to drain all the contaminants before they settle out and also better viscosity when hot.

Was really asking about the vacuum system and 'escapesilv' Rob answered the main question.

Rob, can you tell me what brand, how much (about) and do you vacuum it out hot to warm. Where did you buy. Does it encourage you to do oil changes more frequently, do you do it a little later also when the contents of the oil filter has had a chance to drain out.

Thanks yo everyone who contributes. I real all, consider all and ultimeatly decide for myself. I am amazed at the lateral thinkers and expertise we have out there in the field - bloody amazing good bunch of like minded enthusiasts


Best
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Follow Up By: Triton man - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 09:19

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 09:19
Rob,

Just noticed you said 'normally' - does this mean you alternate with a sump plug drain or a dealer does it on other occassions or ??

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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:06

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:06
Have you considered fitting a Fumoto sump valve ?

Much easier and no mess
AnswerID: 535325

Reply By: Member - Alan H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:09

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:09
Maybe this is the answer.

http://www.fumoto.com.au/

Then it could be done hot or cold and with no mess

Alan
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Follow Up By: JR - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:20

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 08:20
They hang down a little and its perceived it could be knocked off, dumping oil, even oil light wont save the engine if this happens.
Ive had one on Patrol for years without issue, the hole is much smaller so oil drain is slower but way more conveinient and cleaner
Oil must be done hot so contaminants are in suspension and leave with the oil. Probably ok to do one cold every so often
Most mess comes when changing filters?, wear gloves.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:56

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:56
They look like a good idea as long as the thread isn't to long so most of the oil can drain.
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 09:45

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 09:45
The marine industry have been using vacuum pumps almost exclusively, as long as I can remember.

AnswerID: 535332

Reply By: Mikee5 - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 12:49

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 at 12:49
I second the Fumoto valve. I have one on my 100 series. It is a bit lower than the standard plug but still sits above the sump guard.
AnswerID: 535338

Reply By: bigcol - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:15

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:15
This is the same unit that I use for all my machinery.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FIT-TOOLS-15L-Manual-Hand-Operated-Oil-Fluid-Changer-Extractor-Vacuum-Pump-/281104321179?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item41731f8a9b

Makes oil changes a breeze and it saves having remove covers and the like.
The best thing is you haven't got oil dripping over everything.
Provided you make sure the tube gets all the way to the bottom of the sump these will remove just as much oil has taking out the sump plug
AnswerID: 535399

Follow Up By: gelatr - Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:57

Thursday, Jul 03, 2014 at 21:57
I second that. I bought a vacuum pump to do oil changes in my boat and jet ski and wondered how much oil was left in the sump. I tried it on my Triton and then took off the sump plug to see how much oil was left and there was barely a drop coming out. I now use the vacuum pump for all oil changes. The workshop floor has never looked better as a result. I also like to do oil changes with the oil hot - the vacuum pump makes this super easy.
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Follow Up By: Triton man - Friday, Jul 04, 2014 at 14:25

Friday, Jul 04, 2014 at 14:25
gelatr. You have posted what I want to hear, can you give me some detail on what you bought - brand, price etc.

Thanks heaps

Triton man
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