Huge problems after rebuild.

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 20:50
ThreadID: 109195 Views:2225 Replies:11 FollowUps:19
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Love this page, I am after some advice.. I have a 93 hiace diesel. 3L 2.8. I took it to my local guy for a rebuild, had 500 k on it. Anyway after 6 weeks i have finally got it back. And it sounds terrible . It's blowing huge amounts of white smoke and thick black smoke when u accelerate . It's also has lost all power, Really sluggish and i cant get it over 80 kmph. The fuel pump was replaced , the injectors done and a full rebuild. My mechanic seems to have no idea how to fix . But I cant drive it as is.. Ohh also, its auto and the Rpms drop and it stalls as soon as i put it in gear. Any ideas?
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Reply By: patsproule - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 20:53

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 20:53
Compression test followed by the Injector pump timing would be the first place I'd look.
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Terry 80FTE - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:44

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:44
Yep double check Cam belt and I.Pump timing
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Reply By: Member - Rosss - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:05

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:05
Probably need to decide what motor you have got to start with, is it a 3L or a 2.8L as you quote both, 93 model is a long way back to have a 3L, don't think it would be original
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Follow Up By: Robert M4 - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:13

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:13
It's the 3L. LH 113R 2779cc
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:46

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014 at 21:46
Step 1. Find a new mechanic. I mean a real one this time.

This clown rebuilt the engine but has no idea why it's blowing every colour of smoke know to mankind?????????

You say the fuel pump was replaced. Replaced with what? A recond pump, or something he scrounged at the local wreckers.

Fuel pump timing, camshaft timing, if all that is good, although I doubt it is, has the turbo been rebuilt? Did he actually replace air inlet hoses and air filter. Valve clearances?

The possibilities are almost endless. Any mechanic should know to start with the simple stuff and work his way up.

Cheers
Pop

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Follow Up By: Robert M4 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 06:44

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 06:44
Thanks mate, will call around guys in penrith today, see if i can find a good mechanic.
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Reply By: Jackolux - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 00:12

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 00:12
Like Pop says find another mechanic . I hope you haven't payed him yet

Jacko
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Follow Up By: Robert M4 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:05

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:05
I have paid half, he's not getting anymore.
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Reply By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 07:26

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 07:26
Try James at Nepean Diesel. My mechanic refers any difficult diesel stuff to him.
AnswerID: 537905

Follow Up By: Robert M4 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:02

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:02
Thanks mate, heard they where good.. But I need a mobile diesel guy around penrith / badgerys creek. I cant drive it now, there is now oil spurting out from behind my alternator as well... Unbelievable...
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:10

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:10
Are you in the NRMA or have the Allianz roadside assist in your insurance? Get it towed to a proper workshop. You can spend a lot of money doing things cheap...if you know what I mean? I hope it gets sorted for you.
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Reply By: Member - sdr00y (Beecroft,NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:00

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:00
Robert, I would check with someone like nrma legal section before you do anything. If you take it away from the original mechanic without at least letting him see all the issues, new oil leak included, you may be forced to pay his total bill anyway. At least document with good quality photos all your issues since he's worked on it.

Speak to him and come to an agreement that it's beyond his capabilities, get it in writing, and agree to send it to someone of your choice.

Hope it works out for you & your hip pocket.

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 13:10

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 13:10
Yes agree 100%.

There is two parts to the contract that has to be fulfilled..... your part of paying for the repairs and then his part of rectifying the problems, both are two different contracts.

And not fulfilling any part of the contract can lead to legal action.....right or wrong.

Contracts in court can become messy and costly to all involved.

For example if you still owed him $3000 (half of repair cost) and you got it done somewhere else or he got it repaired and it worked out to be something simple at a cost of $400.... then you turn into the bad person for owing money and he has to chase you legally for it (not saying you would do that).

The other thing is you have to look at the work he provided; even that it may not be completed, does the work he preformed (even thou it's not working properly) cost more as it stands now.

Robert you must be lucky to be able to take possession of your vehicle before paying the full amount...... nothing leaves our workshop with out payment unless and account customer.

You have to think level headed.... is it his workmanship, sublet workmanship, failed or wrong component new, used or recond...... so is it something in his control or out of his control that has caused the issue.

Try talking and working with him to sort the issue out and document all dealings including what was the dealings, the time, the date, how the dealing took place (phone, in person, letter, email)..... the more information you have the better if it goes legal.

And regarding finding another mechanic....... stick to the one you have, it could be an oversight out of his control.

We have had similar issues arise thinking that new part can't be at fault and looked at everything else with no real outcome only to replace the new part eventually and still have the same issue......(one questions their own ability, turned out to be a faulty batch or incorrect part with the right part number for this one particular part.

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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:08

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:08
As above, if you don't give the mechanic a reasonable go at fixing it then you won't have a claim against him if you take it somewhere else.

Contact mechanic, ask him what he intends to do, will he refund your money or will he fix it,
if he can't fix it get him to put it in writing. If he refuses to give you your money back and can't fix it then off to consumer protection.

If you decide to take it somewhere else and eventually wish to seek compensation then get the selected repairer to document what they did, why, and to indicate what was the cause of the problem, ie poor workmanship, wrong parts, incorrect adjustment etc.

Also get them to state clearly that the work carried out was to rectify the faulty workmanship of the previous repair attempt.

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 13:18

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 13:18
QUOTE[If he refuses to give you your money back ]

The mechanic has the legal right to charge a reasonable fee for work performed. Nobody gets things for free.

We are all thinking "faulty workmanship on his behalf".... might be out of his control.

And seeking compensation...... very hard and in most cases it will be rejected.... unforeseen out of pocket expenses yes.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:36

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:36
Just curious olcoolone, what part of this fiasco could be out of his control? According to the OP, and just for arguments sake let's say he is not leading all of us up the garden path, this bloke re-built the whole engine. If indeed he is now saying he has no idea why his own workmanship has produced an engine that will not perform, blows smoke and now leaks oil, why should he be trusted to correct the problems?
The part about withholding his payment, yes, a legal minefield with only the lawyers likely to benefit if it comes to that.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:58

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:58
For starter we get people coming in say "they rebuilt the whole thing" only to find out that only the head gasket was done.

When something is out of ones control it usually relates to something provided by a third party...... like the fuel pump for example.

When a vehicle manufacture has a recall nine times out of 10 it's not bad workmanship on the vehicles manufactures behalf.... but a part supplied to them from a supplier/manufacture.... the vehicle manufacture relies on the parts manufacture to produce a part that is correct and fit for purpose...... when the vehicle manufactures have a recall for a faulty part who do you think pays for the rectification, the parts manufacture..... and it goes down the line to the end cause.

If the mechanic did every piece of work and manufactured every part himself from raw materials then yes it is his fault because he has control over the whole process... but if the fuel pump dies that he had rebuilt by someone else and a part they fitted failed due to the material issue (wrong seal material supplied by the seal manufacturer) then he and the pump builder has no control over it and it rests with the manufacturer of the pump seal.

The biggest problem with forums is you only ever hear one side of the story and in most cases it's from an unhappy customer with a BIG gripe.

Hence why I play the devils advocate most times and take a no sided logical view.

Look how many on this forum blames the mechanic with out knowing all the facts from both parties involved.



"why should he be trusted to correct the problems" ...... because it's law that's why.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 19:28

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 19:28
So I present my vehicle to mechanic and ask him to service it. Let's stick with a simple oil and oil filter change. I take my car home and most of my hopefully new oil is spread all over my drive way. The rest is coating the road from wherever the new filter seal ring failed.
Going by your logic I shouldn't bother ringing the mechanic and asking for a new filter to be fitted and some more oil. I should contact Ryco, Baldwin, AC Delco, Donaldson or whoever made the filter and demand the name of the O ring supplier.
My contract is with the mechanic, not whoever he sourced his parts from.
If he got some bargain basement box full of filters that is his problem.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 09:12

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 09:12
pop2jocem....Of course you have to go back to your original contact and I have never said different. And then it's up to the contact with whom you purchased services from to act professionally.

1) So you by a reputable TV from Harvey Normans.... and it fails two times in the first 12 months..... do you blame Harvey Norman for the failure or do you blame the reputable TV manufacturer for the fault.

2) You bought a TV of Harvey Norman and upon delivery they dropped it... would you blame the TV manufacturer or Harvey Norman. Again Harvey Norman would be your first point of call.

In case 1) Harvey Norman and yes Harvey Norman would be you first port of call. Harvey Normans have no say in the failure or repair and is out of their control.

In case 2) Any one in their right mind knows that Harvey Norman is to blame and no the reputable TV manufacturer who has no say in it as it is out of their control. But if the reputable TV manufacturer arranged delivery then it's their fault and not Harvey Norman.

Each came apply pressure to the one at fault to get it sorted.

Most can work it out ..... except you.

There is a BIG difference in something being one's fault and not one's fault.


BTW all my dealings with Harvey Norman have been top notch and any issues rectified very quickly in most cases exceeding my expectations and demands.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:45

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:45
oc, OK, I don't know about you but I am starting to lose interest in this subject. I think we are just going in circles now, but one more go from me.
Your No 2 scenario is another topic for discussion as far as I am concerned. A pretty simple option though as the original manufacturer is not involved in any way.
As to the product failure as per your No 1 scenario my first port of call would be to Harvey Norman. Never to Samsung, LG or whoever made the product. It should be up to Harvey Norman or whichever retailer I bought the goods from, to resolve the issues. My contract to purchase is with the retailer. My personal experiences with this or any other reputable retailer I have had dealings with were always dealt with in a very satisfactory manner.
If this were not the case my second call would be to the relevant consumer affairs department, let them sort it out and accept the judgement.
Exactly how I would approach the situation the OP finds himself in with one exception. He appears to have gone down the path of using Mr El Cheapo Backyarder to his unfortunate dismay.
A more reputable repairer with all the appropriate paperwork in order should have resulted in a far more satisfactory result. Where the "reputable" repairer sourced whatever he used to affect the repair is not, and should not, have to be the concern of the customer.
It sounds like you either manage or own your own repair shop. Consider the situation where the cash flow is a bit slow and a large account is due but a previously good customer has run up a big bill and instead of payment is offering excuses why he can't pay.
Try offering your supplier who is putting the pressure on you to cough up, the excuse that one of your customers hasn't payed you and see how that flys.
To the maxims "pay peanuts, get monkeys", "caveat emptor" I would add "you can't make strawberry jam from a bucket of pig sh1t".
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 15:54

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 15:54
If your starting to loose interest why such the long reply?

I have nothing to argue against you with....sorry.

Can I remind you your hearing one side of the story form someone who is a tad angry about it, both sides of a story usually results in a different decision.

How do you know the customer didn't want it done cheaper..... didn't want some things replaced, recond or new....... didn't want this and didn't want that.

Spending $5000+ on a 1993 Hiace is not something I would recommend to one of my customers.

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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:49

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:49
Hi Robert,
if you speak to the guys at Nepean Diesel ask if they know a good tow wagon guy that they use. This is the best way to get it to them, I would imagine, if it cannot be driven.

Cheers, Bruce.
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Reply By: Jackolux - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:44

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:44
What a mess this is turning into . Was this bloke a real mechanic or just some back yarder .

Jacko
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Reply By: Robert M4 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 13:50

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 13:50
Ok , first issue was terrible noise coming from bottom of engine, took to mechanic and he said its got bad fuel.. Left it with him.. Phone call next day, engine is stuff, needs a re build... Ok, got 500k on it, fair enough.. I said lets gets a swap recon engine.. No, no, to much, he will rebuild it.. Do it for cash.. Ok.. How long. . .? 2 weeks..ok.

2 weeks later, all done, but needs new fuel pump, another week Ok.. injectors are stuffed Got those done. 4 weeks now.. Ok all good.. Be ready on weekend. Ok.. Weekend comes, waiting on parts.. Now 5 weeks. My wife is on phone to him everyday now because I am using her car for work.. Wife picks it up on friday. Pays 5 grand, it's now 6 grand due to pump and injectors ( not part of rebuild.? ). I get home to driveit. no power at all, auto slipping , smoke every where..

Take back to him at 50 kmph, more smoke than in Iraq . Control cable broken, fixed. Pick up.. All ok now? Yep, fine... Just got to to a 20 job on friday drop in.

Drive home, get pulled over by cops for smoke from exhaust. No power at all, can't go over 80 kmph. Let van idle for 30 mins, to clean out diesel he said was in exhaust .. Now 3 litres of BLACK oil on drive way..

Called him back... Oh the pipe from sump to alternator is broken .. What pipe? Oh and he did not time the fuel pump or injectors..

So far 5 grant paid cash ... Do u think hes getting any more?
AnswerID: 537928

Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 15:15

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 15:15
"Do it for cash.. Ok."
Uhoh. You'll never see that again. Cut your losses and take it somewhere else. "cash" means no invoice, no contract, no warranty. Like it was never done. Certainly seems as that is the approach being taken by the repairer.

Steve
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:39

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:39
Obviously you will never sort it out as you are very bitter and bleep about it.

Good luck.

And if you don't cooperate sensibly with a level head and no smoke out of the ears you can kiss your 5 grand good by.

BTW did he give you an itemised invoice for the work or no invoice?

"Just got to to a 20 job on friday drop in".... Sorry what does it mean?
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:21

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:21
Olcoolone. Obviously in the trade like me. Cash means cheap & off the books. I think the Op has done his cash. Time to cut losses. Accept a bad decision, and move on to get it fixed. Properly. Live and learn.
Steve.
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Reply By: Robert M4 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 22:22

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 22:22
Ok, just had a real diesel mechanic have a look, so far..

1 . No key in crankshaft for harmonic
2. Broken front cover
3. Loose/ missing rocker cover bolts
4. Loose fuel pump
3.Isolator for glow plugs installed in wrong positions.
4. Chinese head installed
5. Engine mount bolt loose
6. Oil over flow pipe missing

Worse workmanship mechanic has seen in 15 years working with diesels..

AnswerID: 537970

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 09:23

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 09:23
Sorry to hear Robert, but it sounds like the term "pay peanuts, get monkeys" may apply.
As Steve (above) said, learn from it and move on. Without documentation, legally, it never happened.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 16:00

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 16:00
So what is the cause of the problem other then the pump being loose.



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