Dirty Fuel – Don’t Blame the Last Fill

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:15
ThreadID: 109203 Views:4051 Replies:4 FollowUps:42
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I just refuelled a Toyota V8 diesel with 120 litres of fuel, in North West WA – then travelled 200ks and used about 40 litres before the dirty fuel alarm came on. Being in the middle of nowhere I changed the fuel filter but didn’t dump the remainder in the tanks.
I have now used the remainder - without a problem.
The problem wasn’t with the last refuel but was a result of the accumulation of dirt in the filter over the last 20,000ks (since I last changed the filter).
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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:37

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:37
That has been my experience with the same vehicle. I first experienced it at around 20,000klm also.

Since then I am in the habit of changing the OEM filter, and the after-market filter every 5,00 klm or so…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:38

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:38
Should read 5,000 klm or so... (not 500klm!)
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:41

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:41
Yep Landy, thought you were a bit particular at 500ks - that would be 2 changes for every refuel.
I changed the first filter at 80,000 without the alarm being activated.
This was the 2nd (clogged after 20,000)
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:45

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:45
Changing the filter sooner doesn't mean the filtering is better and if anything a new filter will have less filtering ability then a older one.

There is no good reason other then "fell good" for changing the fuel filter early....... and propping up the profits of who ever you buy the filter from.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 14:27

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 14:27
Olcoolone

You may be right that there is no good reason..

But I guess it is a bit like going to the doctor, I don’t wait for the “light” to come on before I head down to the surgery for a check-up, I do it regularly and it doesn’t mean I am any better when I come out then when I went in; but it just might be too late if I wait for the dashboard light to come on before I whip out the Medicare card..

Does it help early detection, or does it simply keep the old ‘Doc in a good lifestyle?

Who knows, but I have a vested interest in making sure I’m running as best I can, and I guess that is the approach I take to the vehicle.

For sure, I’m probably supporting the local Toyota dealership more than I need to – but from what I have read and observed on the issue of the fuel filtering on this engine I don’t see it doing any harm either...

And to keep some perspective on my viewpoint, I’m happy to toss what might amount to be an extra $40-50 a year (Um, that would be a slab of XXXX Gold at the Birdsville Pub) to ensure I’m “feeling good”.

Cheers, The Landy
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 14:59

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 14:59
I bought a 200 series with 90,000K's on it and after approx 1,000K's the light came on..

Changed filter and cleaned the black gunk out of the bowl ( algae I presume ) and been good since.....but, I check the filter now at approx every 2,000K's.....getting dirty, but won't change it until it looks fairly bad..

As above, it is cheap insurance to change it fairly often, but even more important I think to at least check it regularly as it's a real easy job that anybody can do......doesn't require any sort of mechanical skills at all..
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony H (touring oz) - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 15:15

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 15:15
For those who dont know how to reset the warning light for the fuel filter.....

Follow this procedure to turn light off:
1. Disconnect top wires/plug on filter housing
2. Turn ignition on
3. Plug top wires/plug back in
4. Turn ignition off
5. Turn ignition back on and start vehicle
Light should now be off!
Insanity doesnt run in my family.... it gallops!

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Follow Up By: Ross M - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 16:29

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 16:29
The Landy
Unless you have an continual and ongoing fuel problem I agree with OCO that you are simply throwing away money.
Unless it is continually getting crap fuel poured into the tank then 20,000km is all you need and the filters do become better as the block, until the element deteriorates with age, which in your case will never occur.
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:13

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:13
No problem with changing he fuel filters early, if left too long they get Very black & I would assume restrict the fuel flow?

I change the Toyota filter at 5000km intervals & the 30 micron pre-filter at 10000km intervals.

I also carry at least two spares of each, all it takes is one tank of dodgy diesel & you can block a filter in no time.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:22

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:22
There is one benefit of changing your fuel filters before the light comes on and that is any filter be it air, oil or fuel. A filter can only trap so much unwanted material before it blocks completely.
As far as a filter becoming more efficient with age??? Hmmmmmm
As a filter becomes more blocked, the pressure drop across the element becomes greater and the chance of foreign particles being forced through also becomes greater.

Whatever floats your boat.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:24

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:24
There is no good reason for doing it and by changing it early and often there is a greater chance of junk getting in and also causing damage to the filter assemble by over disassemble/reassemble..... everything made by man has a duty cycle.

As an example undoing the Allen head bolts from the alloy filter housing can change the thread pitch and size causing the bolts to bind on the tread; stripping it or it come loose for no reason or when you do it one day you may find you torque the bolts up and pull the thread out and become stuck.

Or getting diesel fuel in the bolt holes once to often causing the bolt to act like a hydraulic plunger eventually cracking the housing.

We just carry a few spares filters just in case, when we had our Hilux we drove about 2000 kilometers with the filter light on with no adverse effect on performance or reliability.

When the filter restriction light comes on it's not a "stop right now" problem.

A used filter has a lower micron rating then a new one so in theory it filters better as long as it is not causing a restriction.

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:30

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:30
"greater and the chance of foreign particles being forced through also becomes greater"

Arhhh not really correct, if the high pressure pump was on the tank side yes but the pump in this case is a suction pump and the lesser the flow the lesser the suction.... if it has nothing to suck then it can't suck.

The 200 series and possibly the 70 series has a Venturi/asperation pump in the tank that requires sucking for it to work.
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:35

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 18:35
I know where people are coming from but I never change my fuel filter until it reaches it's recommended change kilometres or the light comes on.

Have done a lot of K's and hours in many types of vehicles and machines and never had a problem. Yes I have pulled up when the light goes on and changed the filter, but hell only a few times over many, many kilometres and hours.

Dennis, you must have received dirty fuel at some stage, maybe once twice or who knows and as you said not the last fill, but that is what the filter and warning light is there for. You change the filter today and get dirt/ water tomorrow, you still don't know until the light comes on.



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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 19:14

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 19:14
The warning light sensors to indicate a filter is due for change operate on a very simple principle. Differential pressure. That is they compare the pressure on one side of the element to that on the other side. When the pressure differential becomes great enough the light comes on. Whether the filter is upstream or down stream of the pump is irrelevant. In the case of the pump being after the filter and therefor creating a low pressure in the "suction' side the pressure that allows the pump to operate is atmospheric pressure. This is the reason why no pump other than a positive displacement submerged type will operate in a total vacuum.
So with our after filter pump situation the greatest pressure differential that can be created at sea level is 1 atmosphere or approximately 14.7 psi. This is the "pressure" that allows any suction pump to operate.
This is the pressure that is being applied to your filter element whether new or used. As the filter blocks this pressure increases and that is what can force particles through that would normally be held by the filter medium.

But , hey, I have worked on this stuff for most of my adult life and have got a pretty good handle on what makes the wheels go round and what causes them to grind to a halt.
Thankfully I am now retired and don't have to work on anyone else's cars , trucks, boats, earthmoving machinery, generators, air compressors, hydraulic systems.....etc etc (:=))

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:01

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:01
Pop.....what would you know. !!!

This is a forum and it hasn't gone for 5 pages of bitching and fighting yet !! lol

I read this topic earlier today, and I went out and checked the filter....slightly dark in a few areas, but in pretty good nick so far...( was fully black and horrible looking when the light came on a while ago )..

At $34.50, I'll change it when it looks a bit worse than it did today, but have no intention to run it till it "drops"..
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:04

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:04
BTW slow one, Toyota don't have a recommended change interval.....in fact there could be some 200's with 150,000K's on them still on the original fuel filter...
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 22:20

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 22:20
That is true Gronk, I questioned them once and they said "Oh we don't have a regular service interval on those, we wait until the light comes on". Well that is very unhelpful if you're in the High Country or in the middle of a Desert somewhere - yes I carry a spare.

I now ask them to change it every service interval and it costs about an extra $60.00, small price to pay afaic.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 00:19

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 00:19
I also only change the main filter if the light were to come on. I did the first filter change at 13,000k and it came out pretty clean - might help to be choosy about where you buy fuel and I also add a biocide.
I also have a 30 micron prefilter - so I'll probably change it once a year before the season's trips.
And I also believe that you do harm if you change the main filter too frequently - it's very easy to introduce dust or other particles on the pump side of the element just by undoing the Allen bolts and lifting the lid. I shudder whenever I've seen people remove both hoses to change a filter.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 04:11

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 04:11
I have the same setup as Phil and agree with his point of view that you are creating more of a danger changing your filter unnecessarily too often for a placebo feel good that you are doing the right thing
The big advantage of having a prefilter is that you can change out on the road in dusty conditions knowing there is still the OEM filtration further down the line for protection

I change my OEM filter every 30k as it does not get that bad with pre filtration
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 06:39

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 06:39
Certainly a divergence of views and opinions, and some good points made.

And perhaps to better qualify my original comment, I also have a pre-filter on the vehicle and have changed the OEM filter after the two major trips the vehicle has done in the past 12 months, on average around 8,000/10,000 klm each.

In reality, the vehicle will do around 7,000/10,000 klm per year. So that roughly equates to a filter change every 12 months...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 08:41

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 08:41
pop2jocem..... if you can get particles bigger then the filter media to force their way through the media under low pressure you have just overwritten science and physics. You should take up fracking and teach these engineers a thing or two.

If the pump had that much suck you would be pulling bits of the filter media through the injector lines.

Our espresso machine develops 290psi and if I pack the coffee to tight water can not pass through 15mm's of coffee grind....... that's 290psi through coarse coffee..

To force anything through a smaller hole takes extreme pressure and it's something no engine develops at the filter.

A Toyota filter is very dense much like a toilet roll.....

All I can say to everyone who thinks they are doing good it to keep doing it..... it's not my problem or concern and I will still sleep at night.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:41

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:41
olcoolone, whatever regime you use on yours and your customers vehicles is fine with me.

To those that think they may induce extra dirt into the system by removing the old filter and fitting a new one, or strip or wear out the threads on the attaching bolt, may I politely suggest that you do what any competent tradesman would do. Thoroughly clean the external areas of and around the filter before dismantling. When re-assembling pay heed to the the manufacturers torque specs if you don't feel confident about your ability to judge when it is tight enough.
Oh, and practice on some non critical component, the art of " feeling" how a hydraulic lock or binding thread feels as compared to that which is seated properly and being tensioned.

Have fun.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:48

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:48
I have checked my filter 3 times now, but haven't changed the filter out of those 3 times.....and I don't agree with the introducing contamination theory of a few...

If you lift the lid on top of the filter ( why would anyone undo hoses ?? ), the hole that goes to the engine is in the middle....any dust or whatever will be on the outside rim area and if it fell into the housing, it would be on the delivery side of the filter, so still filtered from the engine..

And this side is indeed the pump side, but seeing as the pump is pumping diesel INTO the filter chamber, it can't get contaminated by "dirty" fuel..

When you pull the filter out of the housing, any contamination COULD end up on the engine side of the filter when you reinsert the filter back into the diesel sitting in the bowl.......but if it was done on the roadside, and there was a lot of dirt/dust etc around the housing area, and you didn't think that wiping it down with a rag was good enough, then you would undo and take the bowl off and tip the fuel out and wipe it clean also..
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:12

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:12
Cut it out Gronk, stop with the common sense. No place for that on a family forum.

Besides, changing before the indicator light comes on doesn't let you have the experience of doing the job on the side of the track in the middle of the CSR. Now maybe you could pick up enough dirt to bring the light on or with a new filter you might just get to civilisation and a cleaner environment before having to break out the spanners.

(;-))

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 822244

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 15:19

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 15:19
Gronk,
Just saying what I've seen - experienced people pulling both hoses off the 200series to change the filter. They do it because with the 70/80/90/100 series, it was easier to put the filter housing in a vice to replace the spin-on filter. Hadn't clicked that with the cartridge filter, you don't need to do that.

If you don't agree that you might introduce dirt, then that's fine - this is just a forum but I'd hate to see people follow your lead. Why don't you ask a diesel workshop about the value in removing the fuel filter and popping it back in if it looks OK? What might the response be?
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 15:44

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 15:44
"may I politely suggest that you do what any competent tradesman would do. Thoroughly clean the external areas of and around the filter before dismantling. When re-assembling pay heed to the the manufacturers torque specs if you don't feel confident about your ability to judge when it is tight enough."

I agree with you totally.... but I would say many who are changing there own are not "competent tradesman" and may not even see an potential problem let alone think they could cause a problem .


"pay heed to the the manufacturers torque specs if you don't feel confident about your ability to judge when it is tight enough.
Oh, and practice on some non critical component, the art of " feeling" how a hydraulic lock or binding thread feels as compared to that which is seated properly and being tensioned."

Again I agree with you totally.... but your dealing with experts who seem to turn to non experts when something most competent tradesman like you and me take for granted....... most would not know what a hydraulic action is nor a bad thread AND it would be cheaper for them to get someone else to do it and be charged for it then buy a inch pound quality torque wrench....... they might even use a foot pound one and wounder why they destroyed a perfect thread.

One thing I have learnt over the years is always doubt another persons ability if you do not know them as there a plenty of non mechanical minded people in this world.... even the ones who seem knowledgeable.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 16:14

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 16:14
Don’t know about everyone else but I’m done on fuel filters, on the other hand how do you reckon the non-experts will get on with taking five nuts off to change a tyre when it goes flat!

Just thinking out aloud, forget I asked!

Cheers, Baz

(Ps: I pleaded with Mrs Landy that I could get an extra slab of grog if I didn’t change the fuel filter annually. She said no way Baz, you drink far too much already, get the filter and we’ll take our chances you can do the job without screwing it up)...

;)
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 17:28

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 17:28
Landy,
stop jumping the queue, air filter changing is next, not wheels. Please wait your turn. LOL

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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 20:46

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 20:46
O'oh Slow one, you've gone & done it now, everyone will be telling you that you have to blow the dust out of your air filter, not tap it out..., ducks, weaves, looks for cover ;)

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Follow Up By: Member - Munji - Friday, Aug 22, 2014 at 16:38

Friday, Aug 22, 2014 at 16:38
I have a 100 series landcruiser and was wondering how often I should change my pollen filter under the dash. Any ideas!
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Friday, Aug 22, 2014 at 16:46

Friday, Aug 22, 2014 at 16:46
Munji,

Before the onset of spring or if the north west monsoon comes late in the gulf of carpentaria.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 08:49

Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 08:49
Prevention is cheaper than the cure

It isn't my intention to be "provoking" this, however, this article is written by an expert in the field of diesel engines. He runs a very successful business maintaining and overhauling diesel engines.

Whether you agree with his point of view is one thing, but there is no doubting his experience entitles him to have it...

As I said earlier, plenty of divergent views on the topic, and personally I am happy to listen to all so as to enable me make informed decisions on how I can ensure "best practice" for my vehicle...

And to put it out there, after observing comments in this thread, I am "back on the fence" on the issue of prevention or simply wait for the dashboard light.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Reply By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:04

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 21:04
yep, couple months ago we had (just to clarify, we left a couple weeks ago now anyway) a tourist whinge on Lcool because they reckoned we sold them dirty fuel.
Nevermind that I pointed out to them that not one other person out of several hundred vehicles over the short period had a problem, nor did we have a problem with our gensets, which have a much more sensitive fuel filter than a Toyota, nor did we have a problem with our own brand new yota, nor did any of our many repeat customers have a problem ... but, Lcool, decided the misguided rant should stay on the internet, forever damaging the reputation of one outback roadhouse, without checking for any facts. We even tried to join to explain further, but they refused to acknowledge us.
how many other people have smeared the good name of a place purely because of a clogged fuel filter from many km's of travel without checking it.

Cheers
Al
AnswerID: 537963

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 22:18

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2014 at 22:18
Now don't you get me started on those at Lcool as well :)

Yep unless it stops you dead then look at the history of when and where you bought the fuel.

We had fuel out of the drum at CSR Well 23, Kunawarritja, Billiluna, Granite Peak but our fuel light came on after all of this at Pt Aigusta, 300km from home wasn't anyone in particular just an accumulation of bleep in the system after some 10,000km on the road.

cheers
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FollowupID: 822217

Follow Up By: Slow one - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 08:21

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 08:21
Al,
the internet causes many problems as you know. If the person had taken a fuel sample of your fuel and the test had come up contaminated, then he would have the right to post and blame your fuel.

It is so easy if your have a gripe or a vested interest against a business for someone to post things that can or will damage a business without having any proof at all.

The old saying from some of our excellent newspapers and magazines . "never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

What a shame that Lcool wouldn't even give you the right of reply.
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FollowupID: 822229

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 08:50

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 08:50
Yeap in my younger years had a Farmers Union Iced Coffee and a few days latter got a really bad cold..... for some strange reason I knew it wasn't the Iced Coffee that caused the cold but it took me over 12 months to have another one.

Same goes for food poisoning...... people blame the last meal for it ..... food poisoning takes 24-48 hours to develop in most cases.

Yes internet forums are a great place for a ill constructed rant by someone unqualified to comment. And yes I have had to deal with it on a few occasions protecting our businesses integrity.

In most cases it a one sided story and mostly wrong..
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 18:45

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 18:45
You should use the same Lawyers as a certain Camper Trailer manufacturer of 3 initials and not starting with M, that seems to get the Forum Owners attention and remove derogatory posts forthwith

cheers
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FollowupID: 822267

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 02:58

Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 02:58
problem is of course, that ANYTIME someone complains about dirty fuel to a fuel station they say "nobody else has complained about it" unfortunately
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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 11:21

Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 11:21
did you ever think that maybe there's a reason for that fisho?
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 02:32

Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 02:32
oh yes, of course, and its not because it "never happens" is it.
I would imagine that a service station would have some sort of liability insurance and to admit fault whether or not it exists, will negate the cover as with any insurance policy.
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FollowupID: 822393

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 10:01

Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 10:01
I don't think that he is saying it never happens, but I would bet on the fact that people prefer to not do preventative maintenance, their car develops a fault and subsequent investigation reveals old crap in the filters and in most cases it is not the fuel.

If you keep your filter clean then you can be assured that if you did pick up dirty fuel then you would have a good case to prove it, but not if your filter is 200,000km old.

cheers
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FollowupID: 822413

Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 20:19

Thursday, Aug 21, 2014 at 20:19
Despite being somewhat “frivolous” in my last comment appearing above, I do believe this is an important topic for many, including myself.

The quality of diesel fuel in Australia is often put to question, and importantly, the storage of fuel in the outlets selling it may not be optimal, no matter where these outlets may be situated. Whilst no one purchase of sub-par fuel may be enough to “block” a fuel filter, cumulative purchases of sub-par fuel will eventually lead to filters not being able to perform as designed and will require changing.

Clearly, a perusal of the posts to date highlight differing view points on when fuel filters should be replaced; whether prevention is better than cure or whether one should wait until a “dashboard” light confirms it is time to replace the fuel filter.

And to be clear, I am talking about cumulative erosion of the efficiency of the fuel filter, not a one-off event of poor quality fuel rendering it inoperable that could occur anywhere and at anytime.

I am no expert on the topic, but read widely, and listen to the views of others, and highlight that there was some “food for thought” comments posted above.

But I believe if in doubt check what the experts are saying on the topic.

In the following blog, “Prevention is Cheaper than Cure”, the writer, an expert in the field of diesel engines talks about his view on how often fuel filters should be replaced and why this should happen, and highlighting the need for owner’s to be able to complete this task themselves.

I’m sure that regardless of whether you agree with the viewpoint presented , there is no doubting that as a principal of a successful business that specialises in the maintenance and servicing of diesel engines, and no doubt well known to many of the ExplorOz community, that he is well qualified to have a view and opinion on the topic.

Prevention is cheaper than the cure

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
AnswerID: 538004

Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 18:01

Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 18:01
An article for the more technical minded, but some takeaway points in there for the layman as well.

The Changing Nature of Diesel Engine Fuel Filters for HPCR Engines

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Reply By: Ron173 - Friday, Aug 22, 2014 at 07:21

Friday, Aug 22, 2014 at 07:21
Call me slack, n to a degree I suppose I am, but Ive adopted the 'if its not broke don't fix it' with my fuel filter on my Navara, and now some 10yrs and 200,000 its still the original and I ocassionally open the drain on it during servicing, nothing ever comes out...... go figure
AnswerID: 538014

Follow Up By: Member - Tony H (touring oz) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 10:03

Saturday, Aug 23, 2014 at 10:03
Ron,
I believe your are on borrowed time, my friend.


I had a saying that I quoted to my customers....

A little check now is better than a big cheque later.
Insanity doesnt run in my family.... it gallops!

Member
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:54

Sunday, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:54
I had an uncle that never changed his engine oil, reckons it was just a scam to sell more oil
Wouldn't want to own a car after him
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FollowupID: 822416

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