Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 01:30
A sizeable number of
Ranger owners that have Rangers powered by the 3.2L engine have reported annoying humming and vibration noises from the oil pan.
Ford have produced a TSB that details a known problem, that they call, a "hot idle moan".
The problem is that oil pump and oil pickup pipe pulsations have been producing oil pan vibration.
The TSB details a modification that involves a new oil pan and a new oil pump pickup tube.
"Subject: P375
Ranger 3.2L Hot Idle Moan (Supersedes TSB 13-01-AP to include oil pick up tube)
Models Affected: 2012
Ranger with 3.2L PUMA engine
Markets Affected: E and G Markets
OASIS Symptom Codes: 448***, 4481**
Description: Some 2012 Rangers built between 8/29/2011 to 9/6/2012 and with a 3.2L puma engine may exhibit a hot idle moan noise coming from the engine oil pan area.
Root Cause(s):
Oil pump pulsations may be transmitted from the oil pump through the oil pick up tube onto the oil pan causing a moan noise.
Dealer Action:
A new oil pan and new oil pump inlet tube should be installed. The new oil pan design has a different stiffness and the oil pump pick-up tube has been revised to prevent vibrations from radiating the noise.
Service Procedure:
This procedure addresses noise in hot idle condition.
1. Is noise present during hot idle conditions or within 1 to 2 minutes after idling?
a. Yes – proceed to step 2.
b. No – This procedure does not apply. Proceed with normal diagnostics.
2. Remove and replace sump and oil pick-up tube with a new level part. Refer to 2012
Ranger Workshop Manual (WSM), SECTION 303-01C Engine - 3.2L Duratorq-TDCi (148kW/200PS) – Puma - Removal and Installation – Oil Pan
3. To install, reverse the removal procedure
4. Fill the oil pan with clean engine oil. Refer to: Specifications (303-01C Engine - 3.2L
Duratorq-TDCi (148kW/200PS) - Puma, Specifications)."
I'm wondering if the oil pump priming problem is related to insufficient oil pump pickup tube diameter?
I can recall, going back many many years (like, the late 1960's) - Caterpillar had an oil pump pickup tube problem with their little V8 diesel - the 1100 series as it was known initially (later, it was redesigned and called the 3208).
I had a mate with an International R190 prime mover that he had fitted a new Cat 1150 engine into. It wasn't too bad an engine - but it had a curious fault.
Bob was based in Kalgoorlie with his R190 - and every couple of weeks, he'd come out early in the morning and fire up the little Cat 1150 - and it would have no oil pressure. Zero, zilch - even after a worrying 45 or 60 seconds.
He'd shut the engine down and then restart it after a minute or two - and voila, the oil pressure would come right up, and be at a fine, normal level of pressure.
He'd had discussions with Wigmores Tractors, and they'd asked Caterpillar in the U.S. - and Caterpillar couldn't help.
Bob ran the little Cat for several years without any major problems - except that nagging lack of oil pressure on startup, that would happen regularly. It seemed to be worse on cold mornings.
Roll forward a few years, and Caterpillar release a major redesign of the 1100 series and make it strong enough to produce turbocharged versions and industrial versions.
In the "product release notes", I read - "Caterpillar have substantially redesigned many components of the 1100 series in the new 3208 line. Some of the major changes involve a larger capacity oil pump, and a LARGER DIAMETER OIL PUMP PICKUP TUBE (my capitals) - because it has been found that a substantial number of 1100 series engines have been suffering from OIL PUMP CAVITATION ON COLD MORNINGS, DUE TO INADEQUATE OIL PUMP PICKUP TUBE DIAMETER" (my capitals again).
I'm wondering here, if the I5 PUMA engine is suffering from similar problems to the early 1100 series Cat V8's? - and the oil pump pickup tube is of inadequate diameter, and the oil pump is cavitating after an oil change with an extended drain period?
I'm also wondering if the newly-redesigned oil pump pickup tube, might solve the oil change drain time problem?
If not, there just might be an opening here to start manufacturing some larger diameter, aftermarket oil pump pickup tubes!?
AnswerID:
540066
Follow Up By: Slow one - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 06:01
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 06:01
Ron,
yes there have been owners who have reported this moan problem and Ford are fixing them.
I don't know if this could be associated with the purported oil pickup problem as it is not a general recall.
Mine has never had the moan, that or engines have sent me deaf. No that's not it I can still hear that loose grouser every time the track goes round. LOL.
FollowupID:
825783
Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:10
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:10
AHHH the old 3208 "bird scarer" or was that the crankshaft busting Cummins of similar design and era?? Might have been the early 555.
And please, PLEASE don't remind me about R190 Inters, I still get the shakes thinking about having my back bent at a most unnatural angle while trying to get some sense out of 6V-53 Jimmies that some thoughtless bar steward decided to stuff under the bonnet.
So maybe the problem come about by changing the oil in winter.
Remember the old hot bulb crude oil engines of yesteryear?
How about if after the oil change the next step should be to warm the sump with a blow torch???
(;=))
Cheers
Pop
FollowupID:
825785
Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:16
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:16
On second thoughts, maybe a blow torch applied to the nether regions of whichever demented soul decided he could get another .00005 Kilometers to the liter by incorporating some convoluted, variable all singing, all dancing oil pump.
GRRRR
FollowupID:
825787
Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:27
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:27
The noise from the sump has nothing to do with the oil drain procedure.
If the customer complains about the noise Ford and Mazda will replace the sump with a new anti reverberating sump.
The noise is just simply a noise and no damage can be caused.
Good thing about the Cummins 555 was if anything was wrong you could not hear it.
And the 2 stroke GM..... sounds good running backwards.
FollowupID:
825788
Follow Up By: Slow one - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:35
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:35
Pop,
they certainly sold lots of 3208's in trucks and the 555 Cummins was average if it wasn't over revved. The 53 series bought deafness to many a bedstead owner.
The 908 was a good engine along with the 3306 cats and 71/92 series jimmy's. The world oil price rise killed the jimmy's although you can still buy new ones.
FollowupID:
825789
Follow Up By: Slow one - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:43
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 08:43
olcoolone,
can't remember the sound of a jimmy running backwards but I can remember the choking smoke and the frantic effort of trying to stop the engine with the emergency blower flap to stop it exhausting. Had it happen a couple of times.
Mate broke a fuel line in front of a jimmy blower that had no emergency flap so he threw his shirt at the intake and the blower ate it. He removed himself post haste and listened as it revved it's self into oblivion.
FollowupID:
825791
Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 09:19
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 09:19
The part that amazes me here is that Ford have been building engines for over 100 years.
They've produced a long line of race car engines, they've produced bullet-proof engines, they've built everything from 3 cylinders to 12 cylinders in everything from petrol to diesel, and in nearly every configuration known - and they've powered everything from tanks to bulldozers, to cars and trucks.
Now, one would think that Ford could produce a new and improved design of engine by now without any "bugs" in it. They have 100 years of design faults to refer to, to avoid any repeats of bad design - yet somehow they still manage to make bungles in new engine designs that create grief for owners and cost the company money to fix.
Oil pump and pickup tube design for new design engines should be down pat.
They should have all the calculations on record, all the faults to be avoided listed, all the computer programs loaded with every possibility that has to be avoided in the design.
Yet somehow, they still manage to produce engine design faults that could have been avoided by simple reference to engineering calculations, major reference books, internal knowledge banks, and known previous design faults.
It really does make one wonder what goes on in some engine design depts, besides throwing paper planes around when they are supposed to be finding the design errors.
Then again, I suppose it could be that, as always - in the never-ending fight between engineering designers and bean counters - the bean counters had another win, and they overrode sensibly engineered design, so they could save 50c on every engine, by requiring an oil pump and oil pump pickup tube, to cost 50c less.
FollowupID:
825794
Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 14:52
Wednesday, Oct 08, 2014 at 14:52
It's funny how most of use can't get things always right but we expect others to get it right the first time...... even if it involves 10,000 parts.
Ron most times they do get things right and it is only a handful that causes issues or warranty claims.
Even that many do a lot of testing be for releasing a product there is no better testing then real life in the field testing especially when you have 10 of thousands testers testing in all conditions.
FollowupID:
825813