Premium ULP for Lexus LX470?

Submitted: Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 16:12
ThreadID: 109791 Views:3720 Replies:4 FollowUps:7
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Hi All,

I notice that in Carsales.com that the Lexus LX470 requires Premium ULP whereas the Land Cruiser 100 series V8 petrol requires only ULP.

I thought these engines were identical, or am I wrong?

Any info appreciated.

Greg..
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Reply By: olcoolone - Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 16:46

Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 16:46
Most late modle petrol engines will benafit from using a premium fuel and the 100 series would be one of them.

If they advertised the 100 series needing premium fuel no one would buy them as at the time they were competing with others that requried standard unleaded...... But at the same time the others would of benafited from a premium fuel as well.

Nothing sinister.... Just marketing to their core customer base.

Yes the LX470 will happaly run on standard unleaded.
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 18:29

Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 18:29
Greg - No, the 4.7L 2UZ-FE engines vary in tune according to the application. The Japs play with design and tuning changes like you and I change our shirts.
I think you'll find the 2UZ-FE in the LX470 has a slightly higher level of tune with a slightly increased compression ratio over the 2UZ-FE fitted to the 100 series.

It's all about tuning the engine/vehicle to the intended use. The 100 series would have been expected to be worked in poorer conditions than the LX470, so a slightly lower level of tune was selected, and standard ULP (91RON) was selected as the fuel.

In the case of the LX470, it would have been deemed that as a luxury vehicle, it would be used in urban environments and as a high speed tourer on good roads, so the state of tune was raised a little, and premium ULP was selected as the recommended fuel.

I can't find the figures at present, but I seem to recall the 100 series 2UZ-FE was 9.6:1 compression ratio, and the LX470 2UZ-FE was at or over 10.0:1 CR.
At 10.0:1 CR or more, standard 91 RON ULP is struggling to avoid detonation when the engine is working hard - although the ECU and anti-knock sensor will retard the timing and inject more fuel to reduce the likelihood of detonation occurring (a rich mixture reduces combustion temperatures and therefore helps to lessen the chances of detonation occurring).

You probably could run an LX470 on regular ULP, if you weren't operating at high speed on hot days or towing a decent load.
Engine wear will also reduce compression ratios, with valves being the first component to wear in an engine - and they will start to leak combustion gases at as little as 80,000kms from new.
With a slightly lowered compression ratio due to engine wear, you would probably find the LX470 would cope with regular ULP in nearly all conditions.
However, the manufacturer recommends premium ULP as the fuel for the LX470, so the car dealers have to stick with that.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 540259

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 22:41

Sunday, Oct 12, 2014 at 22:41
Any idea what the manual for a LX470 says?
Everywhere I looked (carsales, redbook and other sites) the Lexus LX470 and the Landcruiser UZJ100 both use 91RON fuel. And torque, power, consumption and compression ratios (9.6:1) are the same.
And the 200series with upgraded VVTi motor still uses 91 RON.
It's possible that those sites are wrong, but I doubt it.

The later Lexus RX570 and 200series(1UR-FE) had higher compression and needed 95RON.
AnswerID: 540265

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:48

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:48
I think they would be the same as I don't think Toyota as with most other manufactures would change internal engine components for a small run of vehicles like the Lexus LX470/570.

If it was a performance version then different story.

ECU firmware (tune) may be altered to change engine characteristics to suit the application but not internals.......
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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:13

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:13
Greg,
My nephew used to own a Falcon XR6 Turbo and he reckoned that he got 40 kilometres more out of a tank full of 98 RON compared to 91 RON. He would never use 91 after that.

If his figures are correct, I have no reason to doubt them, then any saving using 91 RON would vaporise I imagine.

I am running a 2UZ FE and always use 95 around town and 98 or premium when towing.


Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 14:02

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 14:02
Have an '06 XR6T also Bruce, and consistently get 8.5L/100, using 98RON. Usually travel at 100-110 clicks.......or maybe a bit more. :-). Not bad for a 4L motor.

Don't get quite the same figures from 91RON, but not sure if the 98 is worth its 15c premium.........that is, I've never worked out if it's economical to use the higher RON fuel.

Find the 91 does for town use......not in a hurry to get the mail, or a bottle of milk.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 14:56

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 14:56
They are quite a little surprise packet those XR6's apparently Bob, as you no doubt well know.

I have never driven one myself but the nephew told me a few stories about his exploits in his. Make your hair stand on end it would. LOL.

They are a pretty good donk in them as you say.

My last Ford was just before my first Landcruiser back in late 06. It was only a EL but I loved it except it was not up to pulling 2+ tonnes of van from my experience.

That was the only reason I left the brand and went to a cruiser which is in a totally different class both from a towing point of view and a fuel consumption point of view having been bred to do heavy work.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 18:22

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 18:22
higher octane boosting milage has been in electronically controlled vehicles has been well known before higher octane fuel came out

one of the car mags tested octane boosters well before different octane ratings came out - unleaded that was it and found they increased economy

theres no magic to it they discovered most vehicles knock sensors go crazy on 91 ron retarding ignition flat out for the poor motors to cope
even a bit of extra octane improved things

I tried running unleaded in a non electronic controlled vehicle a while back and it pinged its head off so you can just imagine what the electronics are doing just to get them to run smoothly
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 19:50

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 19:50
"Ping, pinging, pinged". There's 3 words that are heading for the "vocabulary graveyard", get outmore, eh, with these modern vehicles.

Bruce,

No doubt the nephew's exploits were more exciting than those of this senior citizen. :-)

Reckon they are an under rated car by Joe Public, good economy, bigger brakes & comfortable. And the only thing faster than an one, is a phone call!

Bob

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Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 20:59

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 20:59
Ya sure are right there Bob, Faster than a phone call. Hahahahahahaha

I'll remember that one, do you mind if I steal it from time to time.

The nephew, now deceased from a melanoma, was way too fast for this Poor Old Pensioner too.

I won't relate the tales he told me as the politically correct brigade would have a field day.

Needless to say Hair raising. Not for this P O P.

Cheers Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 21:22

Monday, Oct 13, 2014 at 21:22
Sorry to hear that, Bruce. Sounds like he lived his too short life to the max.

No worries about the phone call thingy, go for it. :-)

Bob

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Can't remember most of it.

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