LED Headlight Globes

Submitted: Friday, Oct 31, 2014 at 22:29
ThreadID: 110005 Views:2438 Replies:8 FollowUps:32
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I'm looking at up grading my headlights and are toying with the idea of replacing them with LED globes. Is anyone using this type of headlight globe and are they a lot brighter than the original halogen globes, or would it be better use use a HID upgrade kit. Does anyone know of a comparisom between the two been HID and LED that I could look at.

Cheers Murray
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Reply By: Member - John - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 06:10

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 06:10
Murray, interested in LED globes also. Please be aware that HID low beams in a 4wd will be very bright to oncoming traffic due to the height of the head light, unless you aim them very low, which negates the benefits of the HID globes. I fitted them a few years ago in a Patrol and then removed them after repeated flashes from oncoming traffic. Ended up fitting Philips Bright White Halogen Globes, so that the difference between HID Spots and headlights was minimal. Have recently obtained headlights for the Patrol that have separate high and low beam, see how they go?
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Follow Up By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:01

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:01
John,
Thank you for removing the HID upgrades. I find that there are now a large number of vehicles with very bright and poorly aimed lights around which make night time driving unpleasant.

My local mechanic who does the NSW rego checks told me that the word is that these upgrades may be banned and upgrades will have to be full assemblies so they are properly aimed.

cheers
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:25

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:25
If you run 4300k HID (white light) and lower the lights down a bit they will not blind on comming vehicles, most cheap HID kits are 6000k+ (blue light) because they look cool....... any of the better quality ones like the Phillips are between 4200-4500k as are factory fitted for the simple reason that the human eyes can not adjust and shut down above about 4600k.

When our eyes were made there was no need to have them start to shut down anything above natural sun light as in nature there is no other light sources above this rating people see in day to day life.

Many think people are running HID's due to the brightness they see from on comming vehicles, many of these vehicle run just a simple aftermarket halogen globe with a blue tinge.... again to make them look cool, the down side is not only do they blind on comming vehicles they also put out less usable light on the road.

Again many blame the actual HID light output in general for the problem when in many situations it's more to do the colour temperature people choose and how the lights are adjusted.

And yes HID low beams are illegal if not OEM equipped.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:03

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:03
The probelm with HID conversions has not a thing to do with colour temperature.

It is to do with the HID lamp not being compatable with the reflector designed AND approved for halogen lamps.

The filament length and the nature of the light produced is different and HID lamps in halogen reflectors spray light in places they should not.

The ADRs take hundreds of pages to specify everything about headlights.

A given headlight is only legal, approved and compliant with the lamp type it was designed for and approved with.



As for other problems with halogen lights and colour temperature.
The new generation of halogen lamps have a higher ( bluer) colour temperature, this does result in clearer vision without significant increase in brightness.

Some do this in the lamp by design..some colour the lamp.

Unless the opposing vehicle has HID conversions fitted.....the most likely reason why you are being dazzled by the other vehicle is their headlights are not correctly aimed.

many vehicles not so old, came fitted with old fashon sealed beam headlights...like most pre 2000 toyotas.

when sealed beams are replaced by halogen inserts, significant re-aimimg is required......many may not bother or do it correctly.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 12:53

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 12:53
Yes, Bantam is correct with all that. HID conversion of existing headlights is illegal for road use, and for the good reasons that Bantam stated. They can however be legally used for off-road.

One way for Murray to improve his lighting is to leave the headlights as-is and add a pair of HID or LED driving lights, connected as required such that they have their own switch but will only operate with the high-beam. That way when dipping for an oncoming vehicle the driving lights will extinguish.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 12:58

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 12:58
Olcoolone, The colour temperature of sunlight at the earth's surface is typically 5780K. You may need to rethink your expression about "eye shutdown", whatever that means.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 14:19

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 14:19
Oppsss yes should of been 5600k for direct sunlight.

Eye shut down is much like the aperture of a lens, our eyes can only shut down and reduce light input up to the point of natural sunlight as in nature for us humans their is no need above that point.

Most HID's are sold as 6000k+ and the better ones 4200-4500k...... have a guess what one is brighter to the human eye and what one puts out less usable light..

As for reflectors being different...... yes a long term argument for those against HID in general, funny how Toyota and many other manufactures use the same part number for their HID and Halogen lens assembles.

The Toyota 200 series from 2007-2013 from GX to Sahara have the same lens assemble part number and even have the location and mounting points for the self leveling device, in Australia only the Sahara came with HID standard.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 16:55

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 16:55
Ah yes, the 'aperture' or iris in terms of the eye. I wondered if you meant some neuron reaction akin to blindness.

Yes, the after market 6000k HID's are user appealing because they appear brighter, but the 4200-4500 actually produce more lumens and less eye strain. Same goes for the blue-tinted halogens.... they may look brighter but in fact the blue tint on the envelope actually absorbs some of the light in the lower spectrum, hence less total lumens.

Interesting what you say about the reflectors. I couldn't see how a different one would be necessary other than perhaps for lamp mounting purposes. The part numbers tell it all.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:40

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:40
Quote
"As for reflectors being different...... yes a long term argument for those against HID in general, funny how Toyota and many other manufactures use the same part number for their HID and Halogen lens assembles.

The Toyota 200 series from 2007-2013 from GX to Sahara have the same lens assemble part number and even have the location and mounting points for the self leveling device, in Australia only the Sahara came with HID standard."





That is a whole other situation to retrofitting HID to existing halogen approved reflectors.

IF the manufacturer is marketing a reflector with a HID lamp in it in Australia...It must have been APPROVED as such.

It is reasonable that a reflector specifically designed for HID would be also compliant with halogen...( I wont go into the detailed phsyics)...AND it may have been APPROVED for both.

AND further with the whole HID and ADR thing...that approved reflector would have been installed in a vehicle in a way that complied with the ADRs, in reation to having HID headlamps fitted.



This is a very different thing in many ways to fitting aftermarket HID lamps to reflectors designed and approved ONLY for halogen and in a vehicle not specifically designed and complianced to have HID headlights fitted.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:32

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:32
John
Fitted and tried some HID's tonight and reaimed them lower. One beam was good and the other was just a flood beam, also I did not like the blue tinge. I have refitted my old 80+ h4's. and reaimed headlights again.
Bantam& Ocoolone
HID glodes did throw a good beam out of one light and crap out of the other which showed me that my reflectors worked OK, but was poor quality globes.
Allan
Have LED driving lights tthey make my low beam look like candles, Hence looking for some sort of up grade.

Murray
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:33

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:33
The blue tinge would be caused by using 6000K+ HID globes, try 4300K globes and it's a pure white light with no hint of blue and no blinding on coming vehicles.

Allan B....... there are somethings in nature you can not alter and the naked human eyes are one of them.

Older people seem to complain more of bright lights and many don't like driving at night due to this reason, eyes deteriorate with time and loose their ability to adjust with light input across the whole spectruim.

Many make judgement on their own experience and abilities then basing their decision on a broader range of the population.

Steps in building come to mind..... some complain by saying "how stupid it is to put steps their and expect people to use them, the person who thought of them must of been brain dead"...... when in fact the other 99.8% of the population don't have an issue with the steps or using them.

You can not make everyone happy and that goes for using HID lights (we all do illegal things....don't we).

Hence why they make laws for the 0.1% of people who may be affected...... 99.9% of people can live with the law imposed to a degree but a small minority of 0.1% can't.



Getting back to bright lights...... I find more vehicle lights dazzle me with so called bright lights now then they did 5 years ago.... the lights in the vehicles have not changed nor are they adjusted wrong or illegal BUT I know my eyes abilities have are worse..... so who is in the wrong and who is right.

Had a friend who had a few eye issues and when driving at night with him he would always go off his tree about all theses people driving on high beam or having high powered lights to a point he would turn his lights on high beam to "teach them a lesson" or abuse them from the drivers window....... the thing was everyone else in the car with him didn't have the same and didn't have a problem with theses on coming cars with so called high beam or bright lights on.

Yes we are quick to pass the buck accusing someone else for our own lack of abilities..... the lack of ability we don't know about.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:25

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:25
Olcoolone, I'm am uncertain why you are telling me that "...there are somethings in nature you can not alter and the naked human eyes are one of them." Does it relate to something I had said?

In any case, your statement is untrue. In my own case, my eyes have been 'altered' by having my natural lenses replaced with intraocular lenses.

Older people have more vision problems than simply "bright lights". There are many degenerative eye issues above the age of 60 and I doubt that either of us have the knowledge in ophthalmology to debate it.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 14:11

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 14:11
There is no way of justifying it.

HID lamps retrofitted to headlights that where not specifically designed for them..spray light all over the place and do cause unnecessary glare and imparement to oncomming drivers

The other BIG issue is that many of the people who fit fit HID are seeking specifically to increase the brightness of their low beam and dont care a rats that what they want is clearly non compliant and illegal AND that it does impare the vision of the opposing drivers.

Just like the inconsiderate muppets who drive arround with their fog lights on, knowing that it is illegal to do so.

There IS NO justification for fitting noncompliant and illegal headlight or globes that make them so.

cheers
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 14:57

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 14:57
And that also applies to hi wattage halogens - a lot of people go on about how HIDs are illegal and they are if retrofitted in most cases but these same people don't seem to have an issue changing their 60/55w halogens to 100w globes when generally that is also illegal.

I find I get more blinded by mal-adjusted hi wattage halogens than I do with oncoming HIDs though often the HIDs are more noticeable because most are 6000k or above and look purple.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 18:33

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 18:33
Arhhhh Bantam.... only if us all were a law abiding as you the world would be a better place.

There are many things people do that are illegal and I am pretty sure HID light upgrades would be at the bottom of most peoples list of pet hates for things people do illegally, that's if it is on their list to start with.

You have made your point so let others discus what they want!
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Reply By: olcoolone - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:30

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:30
LED headlights are very good and in most circumstances better then HID.

BUT there is a big difference between cheap and expensive LED lights, the difference in price reflex quality but more importantly the LED them selves (graded like diamonds for colour and light output) and the actual driver unit that drives the LED, LED lights generate a lot of heat so controlling this heat is paramount.

We fit many of them to trucks that can not run a bull bar due to lengths.
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:46

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 08:46
My Muzz,

I know of a globe that +100%, halogen but much brighter, throwing out much more light. HID's have an issue with how they use the reflector for a retrofit and never seem to work right.
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 09:27

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 09:27
Gday
Murray should ask Ken , as his new lights can focus on the moon in wained position. Also burn the fur from possums as he wanders down the roads at night.
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Follow Up By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:38

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:38
Bonz
I found some 110+ glodes today they're looking like a may be
Muzbry
I like the fur on my possums but not fox's

Cheers Murray
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Reply By: Rangiephil - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 10:47

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 10:47
Just be aware that they need about 50MM clearance behind the light socket as they have a fan there.
I checked out the lumens and they are not much brighter than halogens in lumen output.
I cannot fit them because the D2 does not have possible 50 MM behind the RH headlight because of the battery.
I have er "slightly" higher wattage Halogens in mine which are strictly illegal but don't dazzle as they have the same pattern as stock.
Regards Philip A
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Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 10:49

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 10:49
YOU can not legally fit any other lamp type than that headlight assembly was approved with.

There is no HID conversion that is legall in existing headlights.....this is very clear and simple.

There is no practical, legal way of fitting HID headlights to a vehicle that did not come come with them.
There are extensive requirements for the use of HID headlights in the ADRs and it goes way beyond the headlights......headlight washers and self leveling suspension come to mind.

Likewise there is no legal way of fitting an LED conversion to an existing headlight....even if the LED conversions where viable and as it stands they are not....those currently offered are piss poor.

Its all to do with how the reflector is designed to operate with the lamp.



If you want to keep your existing headlight inserts, you best option is to fit a headlight loom upgrade and fit some new generation halogen lamps.



Almost without exception factory healight looms are piss poor and do not deliver full battery voltage to the lamps.....significant improvements can be achieved by fitting heavier wiring.

Do not be tempted to fit 100watt high beam lamps to existing headlight wiring....Toyotas in particular have a problem with the dipper switch not copeing with the extra load long term......I have been bitten......price a replacment dipper assembly..hmmm

The current new generation halogen globes have improved colour temperature, closer and more accurate filament geometry and slightly higher light output for the wattage.

Philips have been rolling this technology out right across their range of halogen lamps.
I've just replaced some of the 1000 watt lamps in my theatre fittings....the appearance and performance of the lamps is significant copmpared to those of a few years ago. The improvement in the automotive lamps is not as great but significant all the same.

There are new generation properly engineered and approved LED headlight inserts available.....they are starting to get some exposure in the trucking industry.......a few of the new trucks are comming with them fitted or as an option.......but they aint cheap.
Check you local diesel spares shop.



THERE IS ONE THING YOU MUST UNDERSTAND

Automotive headlights are heavily regulated and extensivly specified.....the ADRs have broken the headlight section into 2 parts because it is so big.....hundreds of pages.

Driving lights on the other hand rate only a couple of paragraphs

The pattern and brightness of headlights is rigidly specified.

You will not get any more brightness..particularly on low beam than a good quality standard halogen headlight running at full voltage.

A fully compliant HID or LED headlight may give a marginally better beam quality and put more of the light produced where it is needed and less where it isnt......but the fact is the output is rigidly specified.


This has been discussed extensivly on other forums and the federal and state regulations are ubundantly clear.

cheers
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:07

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:07
OH...BTW...the chepaest healight up grade is a screwdriver.

have your headlights properly aimed.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:23

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:23
As far as LED upgrades go, the inserts below would be the best, though you pay for the privilege. About $700 each, last time I looked. Have seen them on a fuel tanker at Cloncurry, driver said they were good, especially on low beam.



While I agree that HID are illegal, as far as retro fitting is involved, got pulled up a couple of years ago at the Task Force block, just out of Longreach, early one morning. Usual license & blow in the bag, coppers everywhere, and one sergeant standing to side says: "How do you like the HIDs?" To which I replied: "Good, really make a difference, less eye strain". No more said except: " Thank you sir, drive safe etc"

And I rarely get "flashed"

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:52

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:52
Bob
When you find a LED insert for 4x4's at a fair price let me know
Bantan
Your right about a scewdriver and I have used it.

Cheers Murray
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Follow Up By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:54

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:54
Bob
When you find a LED insert for 4x4's at a fair price let me know
Bantan
Your right about a scewdriver and I have used it.

Cheers Murray
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 23:12

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 23:12
Murray,

LED replacement globes, H4 H/L, are available for $249 for a kit, from hidlighting.com.au

They claim at least 1800 lumens, not sure if that is one light, or a pair.
Also sell HID kits, and LED globes for automotive use, dash, park, stop, tail etc.

No affiliation etc

Bob

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 00:30

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 00:30
Bob mate.....ya need to get with the programe....LED globes in existing headlights are illegal just like the HID conversions, because the headlight was not designed or approved with them.

The only LED headlight products that will be legal is those that are complete APPROVED assemblies.

and they are not cheap.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2014 at 18:28

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2014 at 18:28
Appreciate the advice, Bantam. :-)

Considering the sh*t that we see on the news every evening, I don't consider any minor misdemeanours I might confess to would be worth anymore than a slap on the wrist.

One only has to drive west from the Isa, about 7 pm every night, on mine shift change, and get hit with a variety of "illegals", fog lights, no lights, only one headlight, odd pushy well inside the fog line(no doubt testing the 1.5M rule) and other infringements.

If I lived in one of the cities, would definitely be playing the "60/55 rule".

Bob

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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:37

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 11:37
Bantam is correct on one front - the fact that headlights and globes specifications are extensively controlled in hundreds of pages of regulations.
The problem is that rarely are those regulations enforced on the road by police carrying out roadside stops. They do cursory inspections at best. They're under a lot of pressure to find crims on the move, to find drugs on the move, to find unlicenced drivers. Headlights rate well below tyre tread depth when it comes to a roadside stop.

All of the above advice is good. Your headlights were designed for a specific style of globe. To alter the style of globe to something the designers never intended (or never knew about, because it wasn't invented when they designed the headlight) will only produce an incorrect light pattern on the road that will do nothing to improve your road lighting.

I use "improved" globes such as halogens with the same wattage as original but with increased light output (Osram Silverstar or Phillips X-treme Vision) and I find they provide substantially improved road lighting without dazzle for oncoming drivers.

Bantam is correct about standard headlight wiring being marginal at best, and he's also correct in that increasing wattage draw of globes will result in a fried light switch. Been there and done that, too.

If you really want to improve your lighting, you should install a relay and heavier wiring directly to your headlights.
You would probably be surprised at how marginal the standard current flow is to your headlights.
Add in some mild corrosion and ageing and you have lights that are suffering enough drop in current flow to reduce lighting quality appreciably.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: gbc - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 21:00

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 21:00
I watched a gu patrol defected and parked up at boondall during a police rbt stop because he had hid inserts. The police said he wasn't going anywhere until he changed his globes or the sun came up.
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Follow Up By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:56

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:56
Ron
Looking at some Osram + 110% at the moment
Murray
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Reply By: Racey - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 17:11

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 17:11
There has been a lot written about the legality of fitting HID globes to original lamps and I can't agree with some of the statements made under this posting.

Bantam stated the reflectors are different, that may or may not be correct for example the reflectors for a 200 series Sahara fitted with HID lamps are identical to the reflectors fitted to a 200 series GXL cruiser. This makes me think that the characteristics for a particular lamp type will be basically the same for HID and Halogen, apart from luminosity and colour course.

The fitting HID lamps to Low beam which exceed 2000 lumen does require the fitting of headlight washers. A typical 35 watt HID head lamp produces approx 3000 lumen which automatically necessitates washers. There is some lack of clarity about the need for self-levelling devices which are mandatory in the EU and fitted to all vehicles arriving in Australia from the EU. The Sahara on the other hand has manual levelling adjustment.

HID lamps may be fitted to the High beam without the need for washers or levelling devices. In both cases the installation must not cause dazzling to oncoming traffic.

Cheers
Jon
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 18:42

Saturday, Nov 01, 2014 at 18:42
The matter is pretty damn clear.....unless the headlamp assembly was approved with a HID lamp..... you simply can not fit one.....or any other type of lamp than the fitting was approved with.

The ADRs are abundantly clear on this matter.

Further...that HID lamp has to be the exact type the fitting was approved with.

OH..BTW..have you read the several hunderd pages on headlights in the ARDs....its pretty danm clear what is required.


There are a couple of aberations in the early days of HID where HID lamps where fitted to pretty well normal reflector/difuser optics like we see in halogen lamps.....but almost without exception factory fitted HID lamps these days are fitted to focued optics ( known as projectors).

As far as retrofitted HID lamps in headlights that incorpirate a low beam function...... the lumen output...it has not a thing to do with anything ...if the fitting is not approved with HID lamps, its illegal.....no iffs buts or maybees....no grey areas......nothing to argue about.

If however you want to retrofit an entire APPROVED HID light assembly there may be someting to argue about....but the expense is simply rediculous..and it runns right on the bleeding edge of what is legal.

Furthermore there is a great deal of difference between what is engineered by a major motor company and has gained approval and what someone does in their back yard


now on another note.
There is a very good reason the major manufacturers have abandoned HID lamps in conventional headlight fittings.

Unreliability.

Unlike normal halogen or simple tungsten lamps, you can not dip HID headlights by switching one filament off and another on.

HID lamps must be dipped mechanically.....retrofit HID lamps shift the filament..mecanically...this has proven to be unreliable and continues to be proven so in the retrofit lamps.

ALL the major companies have shifted to HID in focused optics where the lamp stays fixed in its reflector and a mechanical douser is used to dip the between high and low beam...this has proven to be far more reliable....BUT there are still issues.

There are car manufacturers that persist with halogen low beam and HID high beam.

BUT all this will have a very short life as it is overtaken by LED..that has none of the switching, lamp life and relaibility problems of HID.

In short I expect HID in cars to be a fizzer and will disapear as fast as it came...with a product lifecycle under 10 years.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:24

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:24
Hi Jon
The reflectors may be the same but that isn't the complete light assembly.
Reflector shape, the front lens, the globe mounting and any mechanical bits or diffusers including intermediate optics all work together to produce the beam shape you see on the road.

Toyota may be using the same reflector but something else will have been designed to make sure the light source is in the correct place to get the desired output and the correct beam shape.

The apparent problem with add on kits is their inability to match the manufacturers design for the position of the light source wich is especially critical on low beam.

Many Japanese vehicles were available with HID and no self levelling but they are not legal in Oz.

Note also that the self levelling may be in the light assembly itself with a position sensor attached to the suspension to indicate the current ride height. That is the case with my car with original equipment HID's. The high beams also swivel when going around corners, cute trick.

regards

A

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:49

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:49
Indded most of that may be correct.

But...in an optic system if you design for a long filament length...as in the HID and then fit a shorter filament lenght lamp like Halogen.

the pattern may be different but the cutoffs and the required specs may be compliant...perhaps maybe even more accurate.

Many of the old theater lanterns perform very much better with the modern more compact filament lamps.....but if you put an older design lamp in a modern fixture it may piss light everywhere.

I do not know the detail because I have not looked at the specific headlight assembly in question.

BUT one thing is for sure......if it ever was legal in Australia...the headlight will have been approved with the HID lamp.

cheers
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 16:20

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 16:20
I have actually compared the position of the filament of a H7 halogen globe and the light chamber of a H7 HID globe - the width, length and position with respect to the H7 base is not measurably different between the two globes.

For my car only (standard H7 Halogen projector) the light pattern is exactly the same with both globes - I use 4300K HIDS.

While the light housing has different part numbers for the Halogen fitting vs the HID fitting it is exactly the same housing with the same lens and reflector for the two types of globes. The reason for the different part number is that the HID version also includes the shutter to change the standard HID from Lo Beam to Hi beam. My Halogen housing even has the plastic mounting points in the housing for the shutter - so fitted for but not with.
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FollowupID: 827324

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 17:49

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 17:49
most people who are doing HID conversions by just fitting lamps are doing so in H4 fittings.

The filament in H4 lamps is across the axis of the reflector and the high to low beam transition is made by placing the filament further in or out of the reflector..and varying the height a little....and not by much. the low beam filament is also shrouded.
By their very nature H4 lamps produce an oval beam in a regular round reflector or they work fairly well in an oval or rectangular reflector..

H7 lamps on the other had are an axial filament, placed lengthwise along the centerline of the reflector......differences in filament length or diameter are far less significant in this arrangement.

In addition H7 headlamps are often either retro reflective or projector ( focused optic) systems....AND even the simple refector systems are a whole lot more sofisticated than H4 headlights.

Besides..if the headlight fitting came with a HID lamp...it will be approved with a HID lamp and will comply with the several pages that specify the required pattern.


remember too the H4 lamp and the headlights that it is mounted in where designed according to what was current technology at the time ( late 60's) and the H4 lamp has to contunue in that form for the whole format to remain compliant....HID just is not able to be made in a form that complies with that.

The H7 lamp is a whole different thing and may have been designed so halogen and HID had a hope of presenting a similar light pattern in the same reflector.


Interesting the handbrakes Old RAV had retro-reflective headlights with H7 lamps...they where fair.
The new RAV has a projector ( focused optics) for low beam and an open front free form reflector with a plain lense for high beam...both H7....much better..


It realy is interesting where automotive headlights are going...there has been more change and different things tried in the last 5 years than in the previous 50.


cheers

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FollowupID: 827327

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:57

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:57
Many of the Philips HID globes have a 3-axis alignment to change the position of the globes focal point, something the ever so popular cheap HID globes don't.

"It realy is interesting where automotive headlights are going...there has been more change and different things tried in the last 5 years than in the previous 50."

Yes the latest LED automotive technology uses around 200 individual LED's in a single cluster with each LED computer controlled for position and light output, this technology helps to pinpoint the exact light output offering maximum visibility to the driver and less brightness to the oncoming vehicle plus they can automatically adjust in a few ms for varying environmental and road conditions...... so basically it puts the light where it is needed and no where else.

Over the years we have played around with many different light types and light combinations for our customers, we distribute Philips. Not one light type is the best for all applications and some of the best are pretty average...... we don't sell on light output as it means very little in the real world, we sell on usable light output for the application.

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FollowupID: 827368

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:35

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:35
Yes this Adaptive lighting technology that is only just being seen in the euopean vehicles is very interesting.

What is realy interesting is that the concept and the controll systems for adaptive lighting have been arround for quite some time...but it is only now that LED is beginning to mature and be bright enough that the whole thing has become viable.

I have heard people bleat that the ADRs don't keep up with technology.......well in the case of adaptive headlight technology the ADRs have been way ahead.

The ADRs have described and prescribed how adaptive technology will be implimented at least 10 years before it likley to be commercially vialble.

cheers
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FollowupID: 827371

Reply By: TomH - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:10

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:10
Just an indication on price To do it properly on a VW Passat like mine (which came with them) can cost upwards of $4000 plus labour.

Really needs a new bumper with fittings and apertures for washers, the washers and motors, the levelling system that works off the suspension and the lights need a different loom.

An awful lot of work.
AnswerID: 541286

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