Hard Starting Tips

Submitted: Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:59
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Had a few annoying little car issues lately , including not being able to remove Key from ignition and once even the car wouldn't start (but would turn over fast) and we were discussing some of these at Pyrennies gathering yersterday.
It seems many have had an annoying issue as well so its time for some tips I thought.

Then this morning we had occasion to drag out my DRZ400 (trail bike) and it hasn't been started for a few weeks and you guessed it, it didn't want to fire up just when we were in a hurry.

Couldn't find my can of "Start U Bastard" then No1 son walks past, grabs can of Super cheap brand WD40 and wow , didn't she start in a hurry then.

These days we are more sophisticated and usually start our fires with a gas blowtorch but a while back we used WD40 and I remember that some would have the Super Cheap version instead, and instead of being a nice controlled flame it used to sputter more violently and eratically - so I'm guessing thats why it started the petrol engined bike so instantly.

Anyway it works seriously !
Robin Miller

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Reply By: Shaker - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:12

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:12
So does fly spray!

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:19

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:19
And it has the advantage of killing all the insects in sight, once it fires up! LOL
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 14:50

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 14:50
Damm , my flyspray is water based , better change brands as I like camping things with multiple uses (And no thats not why I always take my wife camping).
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:39

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:39
Glen 20 or any hydrocarbon propellant that's used in most spray cans.
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:17

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:17
Yes Robin, These WD40, RP7, CRC226 etc. products can be pretty volatile.
I learned that many years ago when CRC226 first appeared. Was spraying inside a 3 phase motor starter when it 'opened'.
Singed my eyebrows somewhat!
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 14:53

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 14:53
At least they are good consistent products Allan - The Supercheap brand seems quite variable to me and I wouldn't like to trust it in potentialy risky situations.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:30

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:30
You ought to try some Carby & Throttle Body cleaner in the pressure-pak, if you want to see some real fire-up action!
About on a par with injecting nitrous!
Toluene, Acetone, and various volatile hydrocarbons as propellant, makes that Ether look tame!
You don't want to get a good sniff of it yourself, either - I reckon a sniff of the stuff would dissolve more brain cells than a carton of XXXX!
AnswerID: 541499

Reply By: SDG - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:30

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:30
I use the starting sprays around my bike while it is running, to test for any air leaks after I have pulled carbs/air inlets off. Generally if there is an airleak, motor will rev a bit.
Used the supercheap brand last week, and for some reason, it choked the motor. Three times I attempted it. Same ingredients. 25% ether. Different result.
AnswerID: 541500

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 14:55

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 14:55
Ok SDG , I think I'm following you - you just spray it around the motor area when running and any change means there is an issue, probably beter to do that with the little tube attached to concentrate it and keep spray away from air intake a bit.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:59

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:59
Yep. Thats it. Just spray near the carb air inlets, but not the actual air inlet at the filter.
Also found it good when testing a snorkel on a car. Spray when running. If a change in revs, means spray got sucked in, which will also mean water will as well.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 16:31

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 16:31
Now thats a useful tip - I don't like snorkels and while I critize auto's they have one really good point - there is a hole thru firewall of my car where clutch used to go in previous models.

I have plumbed an air intake thru there so I suck air from inside the cabin , however the hole is only 1m above ground and could easily suck water so I will use your tip and test for good sealing around this intake.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 17:26

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 17:26
Hey Robin,
That hose that sucks air from inside the cabin. I wonder how that would go vacuuming the carpets?.....LOL

(;=))

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:38

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:38
Robin, I use a sniff of powdered graphite annually in ignition lock mechanisms.

The Toyotas seem to suffer from pretty severe wear in the ignition lock and keys after about 120-140,000 kms.

We had trouble with the old family Camry (2001 model), with the ignition lock just jamming up occasionally at 120,000 kms.
It took a lot of jiggling and wriggling, and then it would let go and work just fine for a week, when it would lock up again.

Examination of the key found some serious wear on it. I replaced the key with a new one - and hey presto, problem solved.
I'd even bought a new ignition lock assembly in preparation for replacement.

Solved the problem completely on Saturday - bought a new Camry with keyless entry and operation!
That should provide us with some different fun when it all stops working!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:09

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:09
MY thoughts too Ron but this was really one out of the blue that didn't occur to me.

Picture this , pulled up in into Knox city carpark in middle of big storm and key wouldn't come out.Rock steering wheel etc and jiggled key all over the place and still nothing. Rotated key , started the car drove in circle playing with steering and nothing so turned engine off again and it was now hailing, couldn't just walk away from car with key in it and weather was to bad to open bonnet and disable car some other way. Made some coffee (cars always ready for short trip) then casually touched key and it almost fell out - weird !

Drove home checked key against spare and noticed they were not exactly the same - spare key worked well , but 4 starts later spare key did same trick stuffing up my theory about just getting a new key cut .

So what was it ? - 2 hours with workshop manual revealed that Nissan Patrol key mechanically pushes a 1 meter long cable with a nylon inner. The cable goes down to the auto transmission and effectivily stops a shift lock mechanism from moving .

I.E. You can't take key out unless in park , and slack in cable didn't quite operate the "I'm in park" switch.

Even though I had no choice if I wanted a 4800 Gu please stand by while I kick myself again for buying an automatic.








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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:28

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:28
Automatic everything.
Even includes automatic key retention!
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:16

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:16
The biggest killer of ignition locks is too much cr@p on the key ring, should always just have no more than 3 or 4 keys on it!
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Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 at 18:12

Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 at 18:12
That was a td5 disco trait. They'd wait until you were at the bottom of a boat ramp or below the high tide mark at the beach then the barrel would die - speaking from experience.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:44

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 13:44
Hard starting with diesels can sometimes be sheeted home to inadequate cranking speed.
You need good cranking RPM to get a diesel to fire up quickly.
You can wind a 24V diesel over on 12V - and it sounds O.K. - but it will never start, because the cranking RPM isn't high enough to create fuel ignition.
So it's important to ensure batteries, starter motor, and particularly wiring and connections, are up to scratch to ensure adequate cranking speed.
I've seen dirty battery terminals lower cranking speed enough to cause hard starting.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:54

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 15:54
Ron, if you go the other way and stick 24v into a 12v system you get some action..lol, plus smoking starters, melting wires, but have started a stubborn a#@$@ of a thing sometimes in desperate situations. and got away with it.

Cheers.
Axle.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 17:54

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 17:54
In sedan racing in the 60's, it was common to fit 12V Holdens with the 6v starters from the FX/FJ era. Spun over the high-compression engines like there was no tomorrow.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Nov 13, 2014 at 23:12

Thursday, Nov 13, 2014 at 23:12
There are a hell of a lot of diesels out there with completly non functioning glow plugs.
In our warmer climate they will start fine.
Untill the battery gets a bit sad or in cold weather.

If your diesel needs a lot of cranking speed...check your glow plugs.

A few years ago...I replence the battery in mine because it was not starting well on cold mornings......new battery fixed the problem.

I checked the glow plugs a short while afterward.....not one working.

Starts very promptly and eailsy after that.

Listen to the diesels of others......if it cranks and cranks, before it starts.....betya there is a glow plug problem.

cheers
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Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 17:33

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 17:33
It isn't what you spray in which matters, it is the PROPELLANT GAS which starts the vehicle. That is highly flammable so is easily ignited by a heat or spark source.

That is why you don't throw aerosols into a fire unless you wish to be instantly fitted with a spray nozzle.

Use any of those items with great caution, a bent rod or cracked piston is not what you want.
AnswerID: 541519

Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 18:50

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 18:50
I'm with you Ross. I have a can of "Start Ya Bastard" but only apply it to items of no significant value, like mongrel bloody mowers and assorted heaps of crap 2 stroke gardening machines.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 22:15

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 22:15
Back in the 80's that was a regular pass time for us.
Bonfires, with a large collection of aerosol cans to liven things up.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:13

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:13
Yer right there, Ross - seen a few broken rings from an overdose of Aerostart!

I was in Bunnings this afternoon and they were selling cans of Butane gas (refills) for $4.40 for 4 cans!
Now, that would be some pretty cheap, "start ya bastard"!
All you need is a spray can cap, and you've got a ready-made can of kick-start!

Sort of make ya wonder how they can charge $10 or $12 for an equivalent can of go-juice?!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Nov 12, 2014 at 19:20

Wednesday, Nov 12, 2014 at 19:20
Did you know that Bunnings charge $16 for a can of plain compressed air?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Nov 12, 2014 at 19:57

Wednesday, Nov 12, 2014 at 19:57
Is it "plain" air Mike? Or Chinese air with 'additives'.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: olcoolone - Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:51

Monday, Nov 10, 2014 at 19:51
About 25 years ago we rebuilt a Deutz F12L413V V12 engine for the snow fields and could not get it started, one of the guys who worked with me grabbed a can of aerostart and sprayed it down the inlet manifold....... never seen flames flash out between the block and barrel before and have never seen it again.

Yes it did start but had to replace to orings and gaskets.
AnswerID: 541526

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