Smoking bans in NSW National Parks

I spent half a day recently cleaning up a campsite so I could enjoy my stay. I reckon I picked up about 300 butts. The NP was on the NSW coast, readily accessible to a a socio-economic demographic who basically don't give a stuff about anything or anyone other than themselves and their own form of pleasure.

The fireplaces were full of cans and broken glass and there were small bits of foodstuff wrappers, beer bottle tops, plastic lids as well as butts, etc, scattered all around the adjoining campsites. One fireplace had the burnt remnants of an airbed, a tent and some camp chairs, all of which had clearly been there for some considerable time.

The manufacturer of my camper (Kimberley Kampers) runs a program it calls Klean Kampsites and provides large bags for owners to clean up and remove other campers' rubbish if you're so motivated. I filled the bag twice and the interesting thing was when I went to put the junk in the skip (installed by Nat Parks NSW) it was locked, with a sign "No rubbish collection. Please take your rubbish home." For this they charge $10 a night per adult, minimum $20 a night (joke for a solo camper, eh?) plus $7.00 a day for the vehicle.

I confess here that I levered the skip open far enough to empty the bags I collected, hoping all the while to be challenged by a ranger. It would have been an interesting "conversation".

The $27 a day is supposed to fund a caretaker. There is more to caretaking than providing dunny rolls.

On a happier note, at campgrounds where it's generally too hard for the low-lifes to get to, things are pretty much pristine.

So I think that it's pretty much a demographic thing, Steve. Those who are prepared to travel and spend the money to do so to enjoy that special place are indeed educated and caring. But the small town and suburban yobbos who sadly frequent our beautiful coastal and other more accessible campgrounds are alive and well and spoil it for everyone.

OBJ agree. A start would be having rangers present so they can manage the bookings paid for and booked 2 weeks in advance rather than be left with no spot because of the free-loaders.

But hey ! - that would be honouring the agreement they promised. Far better to come up with this sort of c**p.

Fire maybe on reason but another reason could do with the ecology, small changes can have a BIG impact.

Maybe they should ban disposable nappies, bread bag clips, cable ties, cans, bottles & plastics of all types, actually it might be easier to ban people!

It is not a childish habit but one of the worst addictions around.

I am an X heavy smoker, but I do remember the addiction very, very well and don't bag people who smoke. What I try to do is encourage them to try to give it away, not ostracise and call them names.

In fact some of the worst baggers of smokers are goody two shoes X smokers.

I agree with Shaker. Leave the poor bastards alone, they are already social outcasts.

They are banning people in a lot of places by putting locked gates up. The reason really is the stupidity of far too many people, not just smokers.

Shaker..... Yes agree but this post is about bans on smoking in national parks, yes there are many things bad about sociaty in general.

Slow one...... Yes it is a terrable addiction and a guy who works for me is a heavy smoker and it drives everyone else at work crazy, we have tried numerous times to get him to quite, we all have little vices we don't like and for me it's good food and fast motorbikes and yes I have been tarred a few times as bing brain dead and playing Russian roulette and yes I am a considerate sensible rider.

And Mike....... Yes it is the small majority of people doing the wrong thing that brings everyone down

It's academic anyway as it's totally unenforceable!

I've never seen a considerate smoker yet. They all puff away to their hearts content and don't give a stuff about others comfort, or polluting the environment - or even their own health!!

The ban is academic. Smokers will smoke anywhere they want, regardless of laws.
We have laws in W.A. banning smoking within 10M of doorways, and in the malls - and it doesn't bother the smokers one little bit.
They still light up where they like, with a "couldn't give a stuff for the laws" attitude.

In one nearby suburb, the council lined the centre median strip with wood chips.
The wood chips were set on fire about 3 times a week! - from discarded butts!
The council gave up and pulled the wood chips up, and just left plain dirt as the ground cover.

If I light up when there are non smokers around, I will actually move away from them.

I'd have to say, there are some considerate smokers around....but ya don't see them and ya dont see where they have been...there are some who carry those little pocket ash trays, others simply carry an empty matchbox for their fag ends

Yeh a many of those considerate smokers will soon be non smokers.

There where some recent stats released in QLD.....smoking is now down to arround 15% of the polulation.

so one way or another..smokers are a dying breed.


As far as banning smoking in national parks....its just another one of those laws that are pointless, because it cant possibly be enforced.



I do have on concern though...back in the 60's and 70's when smokers represented a large portion of the community...it was made very clear that if you threw a fag end out of a car window in the country it was the height of irrisponsibility....and such an act could get you a very nasty talking to or in some cases a beating.

we have a new generation of smokers out there who simply do not know and do not care, some will intentionally throw fag ends out the window to burn down road side landscaping.

There have been many median strip and roundabout fires in my area.

Imagine the same wreckless muppet in a country area, where government cutbacks mean the roadsides are not regularly slashed.

cheers

Scott,
you missed one of the next things. Blokes will have to sign a stat dec stating that anything that happens to women is the blokes fault.

I'm a vegetarian who doesn't drink and I signed that stat dec ages ago....sweet, I'll have the place to myself. :-)

Yes it does!! The ban will apply ANYWHERE in the NP, including roads.

I'll check again, head office told me NO.

The ban does not apply on state or federal roads that go through parks.

According to NPWS, it does apply to NPWS roads. Not to roads that aren't theirs, but if it is a NPWS owned and maintained road, then it will apply.

Yes I think it has less to do with fires and more to do with the impact of the ecosystem.

Now that would be a reasonable ban......ban all filter tip cigarattes in natianal parks.

Seruolsy that would reduce alll the risk factors no end.

Firtsly there is not that totally not biodegradable flter tip to worry about, even if the but ends up on the ground...and there are far less toxins in roll your own buts and pipe knock outs.

Secondly roll your own fags and pipes go out if you are not sucking on them.
They don't keep smoulding in the hand or the ash tray to anywhere near the extent of taylor mades, thus emitting less smoke.

When the but is thrown on the ground, its not smouldering anywhere near as hot and goes out fairly quickly.

Most people who roll use less materail....typically half the tobacco of a taylor made...thus less waster material and less health effects.

Roll you own also enforces less consumption, because time has to be taken to prepare the item.

Taylor mades have chemicals in them to help them burn and they typically burn much hitter than rollies and they produce more smoke all round.

I don't smoke and never have......I think its a silly game....but my brother has smoked since he was 10......he has smoked rollies for a very long time.
I have also worked in workplaces where there have been a lot of smokers.

I can tell you I find the smoke from a rollie smoker far less irritaing than someone smoking taylor mades.


What the hell.... bann all filter tip cigarattes and filters for use in rolled uses all togehther.

cheers

Absolutely ridiculous. How is a person standing on a mountain in the High Country smoking, effecting the health of others? Yes. maybe not good for his health, but that's his choice, or it should be.

I'm getting fed up with politicians & self- proclaimed experts, dictating how everyone else lives. The other day I was reading an English newspaper on-line and there was a prediction from a "man-made climate change expert" saying ..... I we all don't become vegetarians it will it will hasten climate change. Apparently it's because we have to feed animals ( requiring clearing land ) and that many of them fart!

And he's and expert! God help us.

Capt.

Michael Mosely did a great (and quite offputting) show on meat and its environmental impact on SBS this week Captain. Probably still available on their website. Sounds like you might find it informative.

Your expert is actually on the ball. There's nothing new about the significant contribution of farmed animals to greenhouse gas production (the EPA had cattle emissions as its major source of methane in 2012 iirc) - even without all the other factors (such as deforestation) being brought into the equation. But unless they've done more research recently it's mainly belching which delivers the methane, not farting.

Bazooka
Never heard of a fart that could not be ignited, surely your moniker is not a misnomer? (LOL)
mike

Key word was MAINLY, Mike.

There are more scientific reports but this might help the Capt Do cows pollute as much as cars.

Have a look at the Mosely show if you get a chance. A real eye opener - particularly the life of feedlot animals in the USA. 40% of our beef also comes from feedlot. Quite sad really. No doubt we are the greatest ever predator in the life of the earth.

That's different? Are you saying you don't urinate????

Nothing like a bit of stereotypical ranting in lieu of balance and perspective eh Jim? I'm happy to give pretty much everything you've said the respect and consideration it deserves but I can't help a comment about your apparent surprise that applicants with strong conservation ideals would be considered favourably by an organisation founded on strong conservation ideals. There are no doubt a few officious rangers around the traps but in my experience they're the exception - by a long margin. No organisation is perfect but it seems to me that most of those who have problems with NPWS staff are those who invite trouble upon themselves.

Ha Ha Jim "( aka flying fox fondler's, koala kissers, tree huggers, enviromaniacs ) ".

The new Federal Director of National Parks is actually from a business and tourism back ground, We finally have a park manager and OPs manager and tourism vistor services officers in Kakadu that are putting a huge amount of effort in to tourism, but we wont let the facts get in the way of a good rant. lol

CRIKEYS no way!!!

imagine having people with an intrest in conservation (a national parks no 1 prime and most worthwhile function) working at a national park

Id much prefer people that couldnt give a crap about the park except how to properly comercially exploit it run it

Steve in Kakadu you guys in NT at least have a realistic budget compared to some other states. I know there are "dinkum" people in the NP system which is just as well otherwise the parks would be as they were when the Duracks and Kidmans grazed their cattle on the areas.

I should point out that there is not one person working at Parks that is not passionate about preserving the natural and cultural aspects of the park, my point was that they are not all just "( aka flying fox fondler's, koala kissers, tree huggers, enviromaniacs )" .

Kakadu is federally funded and at the moment, the budget is about $8 million short of the $18 million it takes to run it, it is about 25% short staffed, and the people running at the moment are pulling their hair out trying to keep it going.

OHHH ! And I'm not a smoker! Michael

That's right Michael. They have a chocolate wheel and once a year staff draw straws to see who'll spin up the next unpopular move. None of this serious adult debate and discussion, or decision making based on evidence/science. Understandable though, they're just following the Abbott govt's lead.

I'm sympathetic to most smokers in this case but it's hard to disagree with the points NSW Parks make : SMOKING BAN FAQS

It's the usual problem - NPs near population centres being abused by local yobs. Perhaps they'd be better off banning grog for locals in NPs or for everyone in some parks.