Smoking bans in NSW National Parks

Submitted: Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 16:56
ThreadID: 110199 Views:2748 Replies:25 FollowUps:32
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An interesting ban. What do you people think?

New laws have come to pass in New South Wales, banning smoking in National Parks from the 1st of January, 2015.

When was the last time that you saw someone drop a butt or toss a smoke away? Did you question them? If not then one could say that you just contributed to this ban.

And then it follows that if you smoke and don't pick your butts up or encourage others to pick theirs up then you have no right to complain. If you do smoke and take care then maybe it is time to stop.

I can't agree with the NPWS stand in the link below, saying that it was a health based ban. That has to be wrong. I though that they would push the fire risk as being their reason.

Read more here

FYI. I don't care if people smoke. It's their body - just keep the smoke away from me and clean up your butts.
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Reply By: Steve in Kakadu - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:24

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:24
I am all for keeping National Parks pristine, but this law is going over the top, I have lived and worked in the biggest National Park for most of my life 40 years, people don't drop butts any more, you may find the odd one but people get it these days.

I would rather people get educated about keeping the parks clean and the possible risks to fire etc, than just a total ban, my experience is tell someone they can't do some thing and people get their back up, educate and most will at least try to do the right thing, as for health reason give me a break, the only thing I would like banned from any public place are glass bottles.

By the way I gave up smoking 15 years ago.

Just my thoughts.
AnswerID: 541920

Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:22

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:22
I spent half a day recently cleaning up a campsite so I could enjoy my stay. I reckon I picked up about 300 butts. The NP was on the NSW coast, readily accessible to a a socio-economic demographic who basically don't give a stuff about anything or anyone other than themselves and their own form of pleasure.

The fireplaces were full of cans and broken glass and there were small bits of foodstuff wrappers, beer bottle tops, plastic lids as well as butts, etc, scattered all around the adjoining campsites. One fireplace had the burnt remnants of an airbed, a tent and some camp chairs, all of which had clearly been there for some considerable time.

The manufacturer of my camper (Kimberley Kampers) runs a program it calls Klean Kampsites and provides large bags for owners to clean up and remove other campers' rubbish if you're so motivated. I filled the bag twice and the interesting thing was when I went to put the junk in the skip (installed by Nat Parks NSW) it was locked, with a sign "No rubbish collection. Please take your rubbish home." For this they charge $10 a night per adult, minimum $20 a night (joke for a solo camper, eh?) plus $7.00 a day for the vehicle.

I confess here that I levered the skip open far enough to empty the bags I collected, hoping all the while to be challenged by a ranger. It would have been an interesting "conversation".

The $27 a day is supposed to fund a caretaker. There is more to caretaking than providing dunny rolls.

On a happier note, at campgrounds where it's generally too hard for the low-lifes to get to, things are pretty much pristine.

So I think that it's pretty much a demographic thing, Steve. Those who are prepared to travel and spend the money to do so to enjoy that special place are indeed educated and caring. But the small town and suburban yobbos who sadly frequent our beautiful coastal and other more accessible campgrounds are alive and well and spoil it for everyone.
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Reply By: OBJ - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:48

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:48
I am a former smoker.

This is just grandstanding to appease the anti smoking lobby! Who will police it? Parks and Wildlife can't even police the Parks now. There are more risks with hoons in Parks on weekends with 4WDs, track and quad bikes etc tearing the place apart, and you never see a Ranger.

Most smokers (incl myself when I did smoke) throw their butts into the fire. Oh yes, I think fires are banned now in many places.

More political correct crap from NSW, the Nanny State (where I live).

OBJ
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:39

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:39
OBJ agree. A start would be having rangers present so they can manage the bookings paid for and booked 2 weeks in advance rather than be left with no spot because of the free-loaders.

But hey ! - that would be honouring the agreement they promised. Far better to come up with this sort of c**p.
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Reply By: Honky - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:52

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:52
It all gets cleaned up when the bush fires go through them anyway along with all the animals and timber you are not allowed to collect.

honky
AnswerID: 541923

Reply By: Notso - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:55

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 17:55
I am all for bans on smoking in places where the smoke impinges on others, but what people do when they are alone or with other consenting adults is up to them.

The possibility of a butt causing a bushfire is an issue but surely any normal person can foresee the danger of throwing out a butt. (Or can they) and do they care?
AnswerID: 541925

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 18:14

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 18:14
Fire maybe on reason but another reason could do with the ecology, small changes can have a BIG impact.
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Reply By: olcoolone - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 18:08

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 18:08
There is a two fold issue with some smokers, 1st is the issue of fires and the 2nd is the issue of throwing butts out into the enviromnt, not only is it annoying for non smokers to see used butts on the ground but the issue of animals eating them or getting into water ways.

Like most things there are many considerate smokers out there; but there are also a hell of a lot of pigs who don't care about anything other them their selfish selves.

It has nothing to do with our rights or as said above "a nanny state'" it has more to do with a habbit that is becoming socialy unacceptabe and also posses a risk to those who smoke and worst still the ones who don't.

Like most things a small minority make it hard for the majority who does the right thing..... And it is a disgusting childish habit.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 19:59

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 19:59
Maybe they should ban disposable nappies, bread bag clips, cable ties, cans, bottles & plastics of all types, actually it might be easier to ban people!

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Follow Up By: Slow one - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:13

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:13
It is not a childish habit but one of the worst addictions around.

I am an X heavy smoker, but I do remember the addiction very, very well and don't bag people who smoke. What I try to do is encourage them to try to give it away, not ostracise and call them names.

In fact some of the worst baggers of smokers are goody two shoes X smokers.

I agree with Shaker. Leave the poor bastards alone, they are already social outcasts.

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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:23

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:23
They are banning people in a lot of places by putting locked gates up. The reason really is the stupidity of far too many people, not just smokers.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:52

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:52
Shaker..... Yes agree but this post is about bans on smoking in national parks, yes there are many things bad about sociaty in general.

Slow one...... Yes it is a terrable addiction and a guy who works for me is a heavy smoker and it drives everyone else at work crazy, we have tried numerous times to get him to quite, we all have little vices we don't like and for me it's good food and fast motorbikes and yes I have been tarred a few times as bing brain dead and playing Russian roulette and yes I am a considerate sensible rider.

And Mike....... Yes it is the small majority of people doing the wrong thing that brings everyone down
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 21:04

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 21:04
It's academic anyway as it's totally unenforceable!

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:17

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:17
I've never seen a considerate smoker yet. They all puff away to their hearts content and don't give a stuff about others comfort, or polluting the environment - or even their own health!!

The ban is academic. Smokers will smoke anywhere they want, regardless of laws.
We have laws in W.A. banning smoking within 10M of doorways, and in the malls - and it doesn't bother the smokers one little bit.
They still light up where they like, with a "couldn't give a stuff for the laws" attitude.

In one nearby suburb, the council lined the centre median strip with wood chips.
The wood chips were set on fire about 3 times a week! - from discarded butts!
The council gave up and pulled the wood chips up, and just left plain dirt as the ground cover.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:40

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:40
If I light up when there are non smokers around, I will actually move away from them.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 01:14

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 01:14
I'd have to say, there are some considerate smokers around....but ya don't see them and ya dont see where they have been...there are some who carry those little pocket ash trays, others simply carry an empty matchbox for their fag ends

Yeh a many of those considerate smokers will soon be non smokers.

There where some recent stats released in QLD.....smoking is now down to arround 15% of the polulation.

so one way or another..smokers are a dying breed.


As far as banning smoking in national parks....its just another one of those laws that are pointless, because it cant possibly be enforced.



I do have on concern though...back in the 60's and 70's when smokers represented a large portion of the community...it was made very clear that if you threw a fag end out of a car window in the country it was the height of irrisponsibility....and such an act could get you a very nasty talking to or in some cases a beating.

we have a new generation of smokers out there who simply do not know and do not care, some will intentionally throw fag ends out the window to burn down road side landscaping.

There have been many median strip and roundabout fires in my area.

Imagine the same wreckless muppet in a country area, where government cutbacks mean the roadsides are not regularly slashed.

cheers
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Reply By: SDG - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 18:25

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 18:25
Just found the news article, and was about to post it.

Soon there will be a lot of adults acting like children. Hiding behind the toilet blocks with a lookout, just like we did back during the school days, or behind the wood shed when mum was not around.....lol
AnswerID: 541930

Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 19:49

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 19:49
Thin edge of the wedge folks...... next thing will be grog ..... and then fires ..... and then only vegitarians .......
AnswerID: 541934

Follow Up By: Slow one - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:19

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:19
Scott,
you missed one of the next things. Blokes will have to sign a stat dec stating that anything that happens to women is the blokes fault.



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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:27

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:27
I'm a vegetarian who doesn't drink and I signed that stat dec ages ago....sweet, I'll have the place to myself. :-)
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Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:30

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 20:30
I appreciate that I'm getting a little cynical in my old age but I suspect the next step is that there are still butts in these parks and there is no money to police this and we'll have to close the place down, blame it on them etc

We hear it often that it costs a lot to provide NP camping and that we should not expected it to be free. And then they are going to incur costs policing something like this, how silly!

Kind regards

Ps thanks for the heads up.
AnswerID: 541935

Reply By: vk1dx - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 21:23

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 21:23
Just in case you lot think that I am ignoring the responses. Not true. Just "listening" to the discussion.
AnswerID: 541938

Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:25

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 at 22:25
From a fire point of view, it is a good move. I know not everyone drops their butts on the ground, but as they stay there for ever and don't even burn in the bushfire, many do. Yes, I agree with it.

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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 08:22

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 08:22
Most of the National parks we go to are normally fairly clean .
As long as the smokers stay away from me .


Most smokers I know are usually considerate .
As someone has said already , smokers are more and more becoming social outcast anyway.
Leave them alone.

Cheers
AnswerID: 541950

Reply By: bluefella - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 11:37

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 11:37
The ban doesn't apply to smokers travelling in the vehicle.
AnswerID: 541968

Follow Up By: tony_j - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:05

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:05
Yes it does!! The ban will apply ANYWHERE in the NP, including roads.
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Follow Up By: bluefella - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:15

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:15
I'll check again, head office told me NO.
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Follow Up By: bluefella - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 13:06

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 13:06
The ban does not apply on state or federal roads that go through parks.
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Follow Up By: tony_j - Sunday, Nov 23, 2014 at 07:40

Sunday, Nov 23, 2014 at 07:40
According to NPWS, it does apply to NPWS roads. Not to roads that aren't theirs, but if it is a NPWS owned and maintained road, then it will apply.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:16

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:16
We tend to avoid or do a minimum spend in NSW and this just seems like another reason to do so.
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Reply By: Bazooka - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:26

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:26
They mention "smoking" but the justification is totally focused on filtered cigarettes. Not even a vague reference to cigars or pipes. Good to see NSW legislators and NPWS mgt are on the ball.
AnswerID: 541971

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 08:11

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 08:11
Yes I think it has less to do with fires and more to do with the impact of the ecosystem.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 14:11

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 14:11
Now that would be a reasonable ban......ban all filter tip cigarattes in natianal parks.

Seruolsy that would reduce alll the risk factors no end.

Firtsly there is not that totally not biodegradable flter tip to worry about, even if the but ends up on the ground...and there are far less toxins in roll your own buts and pipe knock outs.

Secondly roll your own fags and pipes go out if you are not sucking on them.
They don't keep smoulding in the hand or the ash tray to anywhere near the extent of taylor mades, thus emitting less smoke.

When the but is thrown on the ground, its not smouldering anywhere near as hot and goes out fairly quickly.

Most people who roll use less materail....typically half the tobacco of a taylor made...thus less waster material and less health effects.

Roll you own also enforces less consumption, because time has to be taken to prepare the item.

Taylor mades have chemicals in them to help them burn and they typically burn much hitter than rollies and they produce more smoke all round.

I don't smoke and never have......I think its a silly game....but my brother has smoked since he was 10......he has smoked rollies for a very long time.
I have also worked in workplaces where there have been a lot of smokers.

I can tell you I find the smoke from a rollie smoker far less irritaing than someone smoking taylor mades.


What the hell.... bann all filter tip cigarattes and filters for use in rolled uses all togehther.

cheers



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Reply By: Crusier 91 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:18

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:18
I'm sick to death seeing our innocent native wild life dead on the sides of our hi-ways due to being hit by vehicles.

Government should ban all vehicles on hi-ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AnswerID: 541977

Reply By: Crusier 91 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:21

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:21
I wonder how longer before the "White Australia Only Policy" starts back up.
AnswerID: 541979

Reply By: Crusier 91 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:27

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:27
Over weight people really make me sick!

The sight of them turns my stomach. I don't care what they eat, it's their body, just don't come out in public.

They weight more costing us all more, hospitals, aircraft fuel etc.

They take up more than their fair share of room.

Government should ban the existence of over weight people in national parks, shopping centres and being in public.
AnswerID: 541980

Reply By: Crusier 91 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:29

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:29
Should I keep going?

AnswerID: 541981

Reply By: Crusier 91 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:33

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:33
The banning of all diesel and petrol 4wd's should be mandatory!!!!!!!!!!!

Save our planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and national parks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 541982

Reply By: Crusier 91 - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:35

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 13:35
Just to finish up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All politicians should be banned from thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 541983

Follow Up By: Capt. Wrongway - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 16:36

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 16:36
Absolutely ridiculous. How is a person standing on a mountain in the High Country smoking, effecting the health of others? Yes. maybe not good for his health, but that's his choice, or it should be.

I'm getting fed up with politicians & self- proclaimed experts, dictating how everyone else lives. The other day I was reading an English newspaper on-line and there was a prediction from a "man-made climate change expert" saying ..... I we all don't become vegetarians it will it will hasten climate change. Apparently it's because we have to feed animals ( requiring clearing land ) and that many of them fart!

And he's and expert! God help us.

Capt.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 00:07

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 00:07
Michael Mosely did a great (and quite offputting) show on meat and its environmental impact on SBS this week Captain. Probably still available on their website. Sounds like you might find it informative.

Your expert is actually on the ball. There's nothing new about the significant contribution of farmed animals to greenhouse gas production (the EPA had cattle emissions as its major source of methane in 2012 iirc) - even without all the other factors (such as deforestation) being brought into the equation. But unless they've done more research recently it's mainly belching which delivers the methane, not farting.
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Follow Up By: mike39 - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 13:47

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 13:47
Bazooka
Never heard of a fart that could not be ignited, surely your moniker is not a misnomer? (LOL)
mike
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 15:06

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 15:06
Key word was MAINLY, Mike.

There are more scientific reports but this might help the Capt Do cows pollute as much as cars.

Have a look at the Mosely show if you get a chance. A real eye opener - particularly the life of feedlot animals in the USA. 40% of our beef also comes from feedlot. Quite sad really. No doubt we are the greatest ever predator in the life of the earth.
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Reply By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 16:54

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 16:54
I hear smokers talking about "smoker's rights".
They have no more right to to pollute the air that I breathe than I do to urinate in the water they drink.
If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 23:21

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 23:21
That's different? Are you saying you don't urinate????
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 19:35

Friday, Nov 21, 2014 at 19:35
“Not for the first time in my life, and certainly not for the last, a self-righteous gloom had edged out all semblance of logic. ”
? Nick Hornby, Fever Pitch
AnswerID: 542002

Reply By: Dingojim - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:18

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:18
National Parks Australia wide belong to the people of this great country and are for the enjoyment of the people, well that's how it used to be but will never again be. Some 10 years ago I was contracting to NPWS and was shown a communication from the hierarchy to the Rangers in charge which stated that job applicants with strong conservation ideals, ( aka flying fox fondlers, koala kissers, tree huggers, enviromaniacs ) were not only to be considered for the position BUT WERE TO BE GIVEN PRIORITY and so the beginning of the end. Over the last 10/12 years NP have been controlled/staffed largely by pseudo educated university dropouts most of whom are afflicted with DOGFART ( delusions of grandeur- f*** all real talent ). It would seem that the same mob have somehow infiltrated the ranks of Ministerial advisors and it's an odds on that these same advisors don't play golf because of the fact they wouldn't know the difference between a tree and a hole in the ground. On the bright side now it looks as though Qld N Ps are going to be privatised in the not too distant future which should improve the situation up there as many of the good rangers are keen to give it a go. It will be interesting to see whether they get a fair go in the day to day running of the parks or get strangled with red tape and bogged down in BS. I am a considerate, non butt dropping smoker who doesn't visit NP as my canine family are persona non gratis in the hallowed parks plus the fact that I belch, cough and pass wind which are about to be outlawed as well if the current trend continues.
AnswerID: 542017

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:13

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:13
Nothing like a bit of stereotypical ranting in lieu of balance and perspective eh Jim? I'm happy to give pretty much everything you've said the respect and consideration it deserves but I can't help a comment about your apparent surprise that applicants with strong conservation ideals would be considered favourably by an organisation founded on strong conservation ideals. There are no doubt a few officious rangers around the traps but in my experience they're the exception - by a long margin. No organisation is perfect but it seems to me that most of those who have problems with NPWS staff are those who invite trouble upon themselves.
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 13:12

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 13:12
Ha Ha Jim "( aka flying fox fondler's, koala kissers, tree huggers, enviromaniacs ) ".

The new Federal Director of National Parks is actually from a business and tourism back ground, We finally have a park manager and OPs manager and tourism vistor services officers in Kakadu that are putting a huge amount of effort in to tourism, but we wont let the facts get in the way of a good rant. lol
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 15:26

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 15:26
CRIKEYS no way!!!

imagine having people with an intrest in conservation (a national parks no 1 prime and most worthwhile function) working at a national park

Id much prefer people that couldnt give a crap about the park except how to properly comercially exploit it run it
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Follow Up By: Dingojim - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:49

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:49
Steve in Kakadu you guys in NT at least have a realistic budget compared to some other states. I know there are "dinkum" people in the NP system which is just as well otherwise the parks would be as they were when the Duracks and Kidmans grazed their cattle on the areas.




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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:49

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:49
I should point out that there is not one person working at Parks that is not passionate about preserving the natural and cultural aspects of the park, my point was that they are not all just "( aka flying fox fondler's, koala kissers, tree huggers, enviromaniacs )" .
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:54

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:54
Kakadu is federally funded and at the moment, the budget is about $8 million short of the $18 million it takes to run it, it is about 25% short staffed, and the people running at the moment are pulling their hair out trying to keep it going.

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Reply By: get outmore - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:53

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 09:53
its an unfortunate fact that most to practically all smokers could not even tell you where thier butt they just had in thier hand just went - its just ingrained habit to throw it on the ground

ive seen a smoker stand within arms length of 2 smokers bins either side and toss the butt on the ground between them

when i asked him what was wrong with the bins he couldnt answer as he had no recolection of what happened to the butt.
ive had the same response from other smokers
dont forget these people see 20 to 50 butts in thier hand a day - it just becomes invisible to them
go to the smokers areas outside any building - plenty of bins yet the ground is littered with butts
then watch and observe - its not the odd few - its the vast majority , but when you ask they will tell you they bin them ---- they actually have no idea waht happened , they would like to believe they bin them but reality is they have no clue what they did
AnswerID: 542018

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:56

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 16:56
Hey ! That's a a pretty funny concept, stopping people smoking in the great outdoors whilst sitting next to a fire pit! What can you say about people sitting in offices making up this moronic stuff! Brain Dead!! Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 17:00

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 17:00
OHHH ! And I'm not a smoker! Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 18:25

Saturday, Nov 22, 2014 at 18:25
That's right Michael. They have a chocolate wheel and once a year staff draw straws to see who'll spin up the next unpopular move. None of this serious adult debate and discussion, or decision making based on evidence/science. Understandable though, they're just following the Abbott govt's lead.

I'm sympathetic to most smokers in this case but it's hard to disagree with the points NSW Parks make : SMOKING BAN FAQS

It's the usual problem - NPs near population centres being abused by local yobs. Perhaps they'd be better off banning grog for locals in NPs or for everyone in some parks.
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