Disgruntled Land Rover owners?

Submitted: Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:29
ThreadID: 110263 Views:4637 Replies:18 FollowUps:34
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Hello,

I'm not wanting to start a fire here but I came across the following post by a friend of a friend the other day and was curious to see if this is just an exception to the rule that Land Rovers are very reliable and excellent vehicles. There were quite a few comments agreeing to the post however I do not have time to black out names etc so you will just have to take my word for it. I've always aspired to owning a Land Rover but they have always been out of my reach price wise. Could it be that the newer generation of Land Rovers are not all they are cracked up to be or is it simply just that there is the odd lemon (like any vehicle manufacturer) going around? Apologies for some of the grammar it's a cut 'n' paste job.

"I see the Defender is on its way out.....big mistake, it's the only one worth keeping now.
Pfft...I wish we still had our Landrover Disco 4, best car we had for 10 years, but then the sh** hit the fan, collectively and explosively. ..
When the gear box and air compressor and a few other things that chose to all go together ($45 000) become more expensive to replace than the car is worth...it's not worth it, we had to cut our losses and run, ......fast.
We always thought that Landrovers were supposed to be built for longevity and were robust?
When we bought the car for $105 000AU for top of the range, we were happy in our investment and expected to have the car for many happy years and pay for itself. We were safe and happy in the knowledge that the car was a good one, and would be around longer than it was (10 years) .....boy, watta-mistaka-to-maka.
Instead they've made the Landrover w**ky and fragile.
Landrovers' thieving culture of replacing a whole system instead of fixing the minor faulty part with-in that system is its biggest downfall, and Landrover now has workshops full of intellegent pink fingered computer geeks instead of good, intellegent, real mechanics - not good for job creation, the economy or the owners of the vehicles....
Landrover have put themselves in this situation and now have to charge long-suffering owners for their over-priced replacement culture.
I have noticed a huge surge of 2nd hand discos on the market all of a sudden, priced at $15000(AU), that's a joke.
Landrover, you've shot yourself in the foot.
Although it pains me to say it (because we loved the car so much) .....We are UN-happy ex-Landrover owners, and it's all because Landrover has lost its way (ironic for a 4X4).
Re-visit the Defender route, within the whole range and you will have happy customers again.
(dare I say it....even JEEP......have learned their lesson)
For our part...we've learned our lesson.
We've gone back to basics. Now we are the proud owners of an Isuzu M-UX (totr). Fewer bells and whistles, but still 7seats and 4x4, and does 7L / 100km....she goes like a Trojan horse and also has a tried and trusted D-Max engine.
I am comforted to know that IF (and not when) something goes wrong, the replacement will be quick (not told that they have to ship in the new computer component, will take 3 weeks and you're stuck with your finger up your arse 'till then) and I won't be charged a kidney either.
Isuzus after sales service is streets ahead and the customer is king - unlike the shoulder-shruggers at Landrover and the petrified knobs at the top, sitting in their pouffy chairs who have lost sight of the essence of Landrover"
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Reply By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:59

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:59
Land Rovers are a lovely car to drive and probably the most capable as standard off road of any car. Their complexity is a definite downfall though that is for sure and they are expensive in every respect. My advice to potential owners is that if you are going to whinge about money then shop elsewhere. If you want a car that is quite special in many ways then a Land Rover fits the bill.
The original Freelander had a reputation as king lemon of the lemon people. I've had the next version, the Freelander 2 for over 6 years and 200,000 kms with only a few small issues. I still love the car like no other that I've had. The places I have taken that car have turned a few heads.
You need to go into Land Rover ownership with your eyes open and be prepared to pay for the pleasures you get from it.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:17

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:17
I have bought 3 new Landrovers products over the years and have had no more issues than the many other brands I have sampled.
I currently do not own one but they are a beautiful vehicle to drive and will revisit the brand in the future.
As Mike has said they are a complex vehicle and you cannot do a comparison with the likes of a Dmax etc. One is a luxury product and you need to be prepared to pay accordingly the other is a value for money vehicle for a different market.
A bit like comparing a European sports car to a Japanese one. The Japanese variety will always offer better value for money and reliability but that is not what it is all about for some.
The main thing is to be happy and enjoy whatever ride you choose.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:29

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:29
There was a period where BMW owned Landrover and being owned by the Germans created an uproar with the old school British establishment

They actively sabotaged the vehicles on the production line dropping bolts into crankcases etc causing mayhem with warranty repairs and it nearly sent BMW broke, I think they sold the company to Ford for $1 as I recall

The change from Lucas to Bosch electronics was a good thing though.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:16

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:16
"The change from Lucas to Bosch electronics was a good thing though."

The old prince of darkness Alby... :-)
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Reply By: garrycol - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:59

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:59
This has all the hallmarks of a trolling thread.

All I will say I am a happy long term landie owner of both new and old models. The other members of my family are Toyota owners - 200 series Sahara, a Hilux and earlier a V8 diesel 7?? series - they are happy with them and neither brand would seem to better than the other as far as maintenance goes. I guess the same would apply to Nissans, Dmaxs etc.

$45,000 for for the gearbox and air compressor - come on - in a worst case scenario $4-5K for the gearbox and $1000 for the air compressor.

I would call the above information as B..... S......

Garry
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 13:07

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 13:07
Thanks Garry,

I hope you were not referring to my post as a trolling thread. I do not get involved with that sort of rubbish. It's possible the original commentary was. There is nothing wrong with starting a conversation about a topic though. As I said I have long aspired to own a Land Rover so I'm not trying to upset anyone, simply trying to gauge the merits of the post as I may be in a position one day to afford one. There are no doubt many very happy Land Rover owners out there or they would not hold such a lofty position in the 4x4 marketplace. This is a forum for travellers and 4x4 owners. I don't think posting something that refers to someones experience with a particular brand of 4x4 a troll. If I wanted to do that I would have posted it on the Land Rover page.

Craig
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 13:59

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 13:59
Well Craig..... the pasted text is not attributable to anyone, anywhere, anytime....just an undirected ramble ......as Gary points out, some could see that as possibly 'trolly', but I'm sure that is not your intention.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 14:06

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 14:06
Thanks Darian,

It certainly is not. The original post was "liked" by a friend on facebook and was posted on the original commentators own facebook page. It caught my interest and wanted to share on this forum to see if there was perhaps any merit to it from other current or ex Land Rover owners. Unfortunately the real trolls out there have ruined the ability to even post a genuine thread without people becoming upset if it is the slightest bit controversial. I don't think I could have worded it in a clearer way that I was not trying to cause a stir. Apologies in advance if this upsets anyone!
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Follow Up By: DiscoTourer - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:55

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:55
I might have to reinstate my LCOOL forum membership (canceled when I gave up on the 200) and do some copy and paste too.

Brett...
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:05

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:05
You mean to tell me there are Landcruiser owners, on a Landcruiser forum, discussing problems with their Landcruisers? Knock me down with a feather!
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Follow Up By: Graeme - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:10

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:10
I am a very satisfied Discovery D4 owner. I bought new after a having a grenade Patrol
We have travelled remotely, Chambers Pillar and Bungles without a problem. In nearly 3 years I have now done 80,000km and the only warranty has been a central screen for the radio.
Having owned and/or drive Isuzu, Pajero, Toyota the Landrover came out on top in every way.
It is quiet, powerful, frugal and above all is so nice to drive and comfortable.
Unlike other brands the maintenance must be done on time and correctly. The dealer does the basics, transmission goes to the specialists, and I do all else such as keep the air compressor clean and check after going off road. In the bush they go places the Patrol would have difficulty.
I am also not the stereotype D4 owner either as I do know my way around both mechanically and computer wise; I have maintained and still do, some complex aircraft and systems for over 49 years. I know any car or aircraft can throw a hissy fit unexpectedly, but is not a reason to bag it. Yes I have travelled on a B787 for over 13 hours and was comfortable in doing so, in spite of the well published battery problems.
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Reply By: Iza B - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 14:10

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 14:10
It is my understanding that LR has topped the list of vehicles returned to the dealer on the back of a truck, for years. Just recently pushed off the bottom by Jeep. Mercedes was at the other end of the list I read. One of the motoring organisations published the list.

Good friend has a Disco and we recently did a road trip in it. Beautiful car to drive on the blacktop but ground clearance was so bad we could not get over the gutters in one caravan park. His latest problem is that one of the multiple computers is playing up. LR's fix process is to replace the most likely one and see what happens. And BTW, you pay for the replacement computer before they order it in and install.

LR owners seem to defend them to the death but I don't think the figures are all their way.

Iza
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 14:20

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 14:20
Well the Disco does have more ground clearance than just about all other wagon type 4wds - 4wds like Troopies may have a little more - so I find it not likely it could not get over a gutter in a caravan park.

Which Australian reliability surveys are you referring too??

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Reply By: Ron N - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:04

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:04
Craig - Wow! - I've got my big bag of popcorn ready for this long-running show!! LOL

When you have a company that has been through 5 owners in the last 15 years - none of which attended to Land Rover basic reliability problems (apart from possibly Ford) - then you get some idea of the lack of direction within the company, the lack of morale, and the lack of ability of many of the LR designers to produce a reliable product.

Add in horrendous parts prices, the poor parts supply, dreadful service from LR dealers, and inherent recognised problems that took years to address (oil leaks, plastic dowels in heads/blocks, oil pump failures, ECU failures, wiring harness problems, dangerous fuel leaks, exceptionally poor trim fit and finish, along with a myriad of just plain annoying faults - then you get an idea why the reason for LR being at the bottom of JD Power, and even British reliability lists, is no accident or any fudging of figures.

If ever there was a brand where the marketing hype and the defensive attitude of LR owners leads to a vehicle rating higher than it should, then LR is a classic example.
I often wonder if it's because LR owners spend so much time repairing them, or looking for and sourcing cheaper parts, that they end up having so much invested in their vehicle, they feel obliged to defend them at every turn.

When you read a review posted by a LR owner on Product Review, talking about how "the left hand diff went" - then I reckon that gives some idea of the mechanical understanding and vehicle knowledge of the average LR owner. LOL

The Dog & Lemon guide - Landrover

U.K. - Vehicle unreliability charts

LandroverHell - least reliable luxury cars

LR reliability - consumer reports

Landrover recalls - official Govt listed recalls

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 16:21

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 16:21
LR is now in trouble in the UK because they are enjoying record profitability under Tata management, (in the vicinity of 15 million pounds a day), but are not passing the profitability to staff who endured benefit cuts a few years ago in the name of keeping the company afloat. The unions are up in arms about it.
Land Rovers have been better since the Ford ownership. Still, they are very complicated cars. Mine would be on its 3rd set of injectors if it was a Toyota :-)
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:21

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:21
The reason why Jaguar/LR have been making a profit is purely due to both the Russian and Chinese markets, where they have invaded the luxury market on their brand image alone - and where they have also been overcharging the Chinese unconscionable amounts - to the extent where the Chinese Govt stepped in, and made them reduce their prices.
There has also obviously been a large increase in Chinese and Indian parts sourcing, that has led to improving Jaguar/LR profitability.

Jaguar/LR forced to slash prices in China

Prior to their entry into the Russian and Chinese markets, Jaguar/LR were losing money hand over fist. The company lost 110 million British pounds just in the 2nd quarter of 2010 alone.

The Dog & Lemon guide reserves its most extensive and its greatest savaging for the Freelander I.

Landrover Freelander I - worst car ever?

However, the Freelander debacle was pretty symptomatic of the overall problems of LR.
Yet, time after time, LR lovers will just shrug off the Freelander reputation and freely admit it was a dog - but that LR no longer build dogs - that's all behind them, now!

This attitude always reminds me of the International Harvester salesmen who used to call on us regularly in the 1960's and 1970's, trying to sell us International earthmoving equipment, and bragging about what a wonderful product they were.
Without fail, IH earthmovers were always nothing but trouble.

However, as soon as a new IH model appeared, the salesmen would freely admit the previous model was the greatest POS ever built! - but the new model had none of the previous models problems! LOL

The reputation that many British car manufacturers have had for many years, for producing poor quality products, is a well-deserved one.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 21:07

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 21:07
Ron, that D&L review for the Freelander is the best laugh I've had in a week .... not commenting pf LR pro's & con's (so don't flame me) but the follwoing was hilarious....

"Despite having billions in funding from BMW, Rover managed the breathtaking feat of utilising the worst bits of the Honda-Rover vehicles, such as the flimsy Honda Civic body, while filling this
flimsy body with utterly inept British and European technology."

"If there’s any justice in the universe, the journalists who recommended these vehicles will spend all eternity fixing broken down Land Rovers in the middle of some hellish wilderness, with hyenas
snapping at their heels. Because that’s the fate that many Land Rover owners have suffered."

"Of the four engines, the two diesels are easily the best of a very bad bunch. The Rover 1.8 and 2.5 V6 petrol engines were designed by Satan and assembled by monkeys.
Many Freelander owners needed new petrol engines from as little as 10,000km from new. Few engines made it to 50,000km; almost none made it to 70,000km."

"Early versions quickly developed cracks in the chassis even after being driven around town. On versions before 2004, a large hunk of the rear suspension (the cross member) is liable to
unceremoniously part company with the rest of the vehicle as you drive down the road. Or across a field."
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 21:12

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 21:12
Well I sold my Freelander 1 L series diesel with just under 300,000km a couple of years back and it never had any major issues - in fact one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned - nice to drive, 45mpg.

The 1800cc petrol engine versions were a different matter.

Hmmm - best selling 4wd in Europe for over 5 years - hmmm I guess the reviewers were right and the hundreds and thousands of people who bought them for over 5 years make it the best selling vehicle in the sector got it all so wrong.
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Reply By: lbudgie - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:21

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:21
just another troll.
my cars better than you car.... blahh blahhhh blahhh.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:38

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:38
I never mentioned anything about my car? Read the whole post and take it at it's face value. I'm not getting into a slanging match with folks who only try to read between the lines. Why can't we have a grown up, adult, civilized discussion about it? I think people just love throwing the "troll" accusation around on the net these days, you can't even say something the tiniest bit controversial without getting jumped on it's bloody ridiculous.
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Reply By: Notso - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:48

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:48
Yes well the way I see it, every vehicle ever built has it's issues and reposting other peoples posts doesn't serve any useful purpose except to stir the pot.

I think we could all quote someone somewhere who has had a problem with a particular vehicle and got no satisfaction from the manufacturer. Come to think of my second cousin twice removed once had a problem with ...........
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:53

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 15:53
OK, you're entitled to your opinion. It may not serve a useful purpose to you but it may so for me. If the post doesn't interest you or you have nothing useful to offer then don't comment or alert the moderator and let them decide.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:45

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:45
Mate, you put it out there, we are just making comments, perhaps you shouldn't read ours, then you wouldn't get offended.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:49

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:49
Right, so don't read comments, that I get alerts for, to my own thread. No worries mate I'll do my best.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:04

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:04
That's the way, here's another one. I suppose you could always turn off alerts.
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Reply By: cookie1 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 16:34

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 16:34
A vey reasonable question I think, someone doing their homework before looking at what is typically the second largest purchase.

I have heard many stories including one from my dad (RIP) who was at a Caravan Park many years ago trying to help a fellow traveller who was stuck in Alice Springs with a faulty Thermostat, if I recall correctly he had to buy the whole housing not just the part that had failed.

It ticks me off when people make assumptions as to the worthiness of vehicles, last year I had a fuel warning light come on in my 200GX and as a precaution followed Toyota's advice and called the RACV as it was on a Sunday afternoon. I recently attended an event and had someone come up and ask me about my "breakdown" which was puzzling, the car hadn't broken down but the warning light came on and the RACV checked it and I drove back to Adelaide from Melbourne.

I guess the answer is to try to get first hand experiences from those that own or have owned them from Forums.

cheers
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Reply By: Top End Az - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:40

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:40
I don't believe the original post was inflammatory. And I have had many helpful tips, met some great people and had some great recommendations as a result from using this site.

Surely we are all pursuing the great Exploroz experience; lets go easy on each other and make the forum a bit more enjoyable, rather than contributors feeling like they have to defend their position.

All too often a post / thread gets hijacked and ends up off topic.
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:59

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 17:59
Hi Cruise,

If you didn't "want to start a fire here" then perhaps you should not be playing with matches. LOL

As for the Isuzu "going like a Trojan horse"............. well actually, the Trojans had to drag and push the horse into their walled city!
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 542246

Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:05

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:05
Haha Fair comment!
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:27

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:27
Guys
It is fair to say most Landrover models are not as reliable as there Japanese counterparts , but most of the punters who own them seem to think they are a great vehicle
I am not a landrover owner or admirer , but they must be doing something right as they have been around for a long time .

Cheers
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:45

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 18:45
And they are not advertised on every channel during sports programmes either.



Oh What a Feeling.

Disco.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:18

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:18
Or buy a Disco, haul out the 85 kl of wiring and the plethora of BS electronic gadgets.

Install a nice non electronic Isuzu or Mazda 3 liter turbo diesel and gearbox and enjoy the best of both worlds.

Land Rover, Range Rover, both fabulous concepts badly executed and even more badly supported.

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:45

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 19:45
I reckon that 99% of bad comments about Discos or Rangies are made by people who have never owned one (the same applies to Jeeps). There should be a survey done about that on the web. Most LR owners are fully aware of the reliability rankings and yet, are repeat customers. I test drove an Isuzu MUX a few months ago and couldn't believe how noisy and truck like it was. It could be as reliable as anything but I would never enjoy driving it. My Freelander 2 followed a couple of new Dmax's around Abercrombie River NP last weekend and didn't get stuck, bottom out, or require a second try anywhere yet both of them did in a few places. I came away thinking that the Isuzu's might have a decent reputation, but I don't want to own one. Land Rover and Jeep survive as brands because they provide qualities in cars that transcend reliability and customer service ratings. The same can be said of other brands like Alpha Romeo. And, I don't mind getting bagged by the "reliable brand" drivers. It's all good fun. :-)
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:32

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:32
Land Rover and Jeep survive as brands because they provide qualities in cars that transcend reliability and customer service ratings.

Does that mean they have qualities that good that reliability and customer satisfaction don't matter ??

Rubbish.......that's brand loyalty gone mad !!

Offroad ability and on road comfort are great , but dealer apathy and long term reliability are things you can't ignore.

I have a 200 series and if you look at Lcool, there are some horror stories with them as well, but the odds are a lot better compared to those "other" brands !!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:52

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:52
Thanks Mike,

That's great feedback. Good to get some constructive replies! I borrowed a friends Freelander 2 for 2 weeks when I visited victoria a few years ago and loved the way it drove. Admittedly not really long enough to gauge reliability but I was very reluctant to hand it back when my trip came to an end!

Cheers
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 22:56

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 22:56
Hey Gronk, it's not rubbish. LR, Jeep and Alpha's are really liked by certain people even though they know they can be a pain in the backside in some ways. It's not brand loyalty because the brand owners can be a pain as well. It's more about how they look, how they drive, how they handle certain situations, the standard features that make for a comfortable ride. My car for instance handles far better than I dreamed it would, is more powerful than I thought it would be, I love how the 6 speed auto works, the terrain response system is magic, it goes places I never thought it could go, it has fantastic fuel economy, the seats are excellent, it's very quiet even on rough roads, it doesn't rattle, it doesn't let dust in, the climate control couldn't be better, the sound system is perfect for me. I've lost count of the number of people who have had a ride in my car and said "gee this is nice, it goes really well doesn't it?"
Therefore I am willing to put up with the occasional crap because generally the experience is that far above average it doesn't matter to me. Mine has over 200k on it and I'm looking at possible replacements hence the MUX test drive as well as quite a few others, but mine at 200k is still far better than anything I've tested brand new. To be honest, I would prefer NOT to buy another LR, but I can't find anything I like better.
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Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:45

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:45
For about 4 years, we had a Disco Td5 and an Alfa 147 parked in the carport; the Alfa was high maintenance (oil had to checked and topped up every 500 km, cam belts changed religiously at 60,000 km etc.), the Disco less so. In 190,000 km, the Disco (other than normal consumables) cost me less than $500 (still with the same clutch). The only issue with the Disco was annoying habit of blowing brake globes.

We had no (read expensive) major problems with either.

Both cars were like old friends; they had their quirks, but the quirks were part of them and they didn’t distract from the enjoyment of being in their company.

Put an Alfa on a winding road and you know what the experience of driving is all about; as my wife once said; “you ask it to do it, and it does it”. You could put the Alfa’s front wheel 1 mm outside the fog line on the apex of a corner every time, a gear change that was smooth, fast and exact and an engine that was responsive to you flexing your big toe. You didn't sit on the seats; they encompassed and cuddled you.

Brand loyalty?

We no longer own either, but at least after owing them, we have benchmarks for comparing other cars. Unfortunately, so few match them and you end up comprising. As transport, there may be cheaper and less problematic cars; you can eat Big Macs rather than Fillet Migion too.
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Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:24

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:24
I can only speak from my own experience, having been a Landy tragic for over 25 years, before going over to the dark side.

1987 Isuzu 3.9 County ... rock solid engine if not slug like. Gearbox rebuilt at 70K and on the way out again when I sold it at around 160K.

1994 Tdi Defender ... only had it for about a year and nothing went bad.

1996 V8 Disco ... not a bad vehicle but the MAF gave me no end of grief and the clutch only lasted about 100K

2003 TD5 Defender ... 2 cracked heads at 70K and 140K was a tad over the top for me.

I love the marque and they are streets ahead of the opposition out of the box but they really need to address reliability issues plus offer a decent dealer network, as was the case in the good old days when they really were a reliable vehicle.
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Reply By: Kiwi100 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:46

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:46
It is claimed that over 90% of Land Rovers ever built are still out there, on the road.



.....the rest of them made it home. ;-)
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Follow Up By: Kiwi100 - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:58

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 20:58
I might add that we met a couple of Disco owners on a WA track a couple of years ago. Something had fallen off the suspension of one of them and they were debating the merits of back-tracking to find the missing part. The somewhat disgruntled owner reckoned if they just pressed on without it, the chances were that they'd find the same part from a previous traveller.
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Follow Up By: Erad - Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 22:54

Thursday, Nov 27, 2014 at 22:54
The modern Landies scare me - I would hate to be out in the bush somewhere and have the electronics fail to proceed. Mind you, most modern cars and 4WD's are the same - I am petrified that something may stop when I am well out of reach, but thusfar, that hasn't happened (Shhhh!).

I owned a 1985 model Range Rover for quite a while. I loved it. If had its foibles - the transfer case sang to you as you drive along, the aircon was marginal, but overall, I loved it. It took us everywhere. It had its fair share of problems, but was basically a trusty old vehicle. I eventually got sick of mopping up little puddles of oil from various parts of the car, despite putting new seals in, so I sold it and got a Pajero. No oil leaks, much quieter, more precise steeering, but no real character behind it.

Incidentally, there is a myth out there which says that Land Rovers leak oil. Rubbish - they are simply marking their territory.
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Reply By: Gotlost - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:26

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:26
one thing i remember from my time in the Army about LR (Landrover Aust) was the returning of vehicles from East Timor in about 1999/2000, i was in Brisbane at the time, LR Aust refused (for whatever reason) to rebuild any LR110's returning from East Timor as they had been all stripped down to their chassis's, one of my tasks was to drive to Mack Australia at Darra and to re assemble them for us, so i had to drive out to Darra in a Mack truck with a collection of LR110's fully stripped so they could reassemble them for us, this went on for approximately 8 months, we also had to deliver to Mack a fully assembled LR110 including the different variants so that Mack Aust had an idea of how to reassemble them, strange i thought considering LR Aust had a standing contract with the Dept of Defence.

Cheers
Mark
AnswerID: 542260

Reply By: The Landy - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 08:16

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 08:16
I owned three Landrover Defenders before going over to the "dark side" with a Toyota 79 Series Dual Cab.

They served me well, but you had to work at keeping them "up to spec".

The Toyota has 40,000 on the clock now and not an oil leak in sight...

I'll always be fond of the Landy's, but will never go back now I've owned a Toyota..

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 542263

Follow Up By: Members - Bow & Nan - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 08:56

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 08:56
Landrover invented the oil leak.
"Work interferes with living"

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

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FollowupID: 828546

Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:19

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:19
I believe most oil leaks now have a part number ;o)
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:31

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:31
No, I believe that's being too harsh on Landrover. I believe GM invented and perfected leaky gaskets and seals long before LR did.

What LR and the British manufacturers did in general, was find the crappiest quality plastics they could possibly find in their search for trim and dash materials - tested them the British sun for a week - then decided they would be highly suitable for use in Australias harsh climate for 10 yrs.

They also found the cheapest method that anyone could possibly devise to fix that trim in place, so that it either buckled, or fell off, after 12 mths use.
That was if it didn't crack and split in the meantime.

Then the British car factories manage to employ people you wouldn't want assembling your kids toys.
These employees main aim in life is to "get back at the bosses", not to work.
We have seen their offspring arrive on our shores as rabid U.K. labour trade unionists, intent on petty demarcation disputes, constant strikes, the "us and them" attitude, and the "bugger you Jack, I'm right" attitude - as they slap your construction together with a "couldn't give a stuff" attitude.

These people do not understand the meaning of conscientiousness, care and attention to detail, and care in interpreting assembly instructions or plans.

Meantimes, on the other side of the world we have the Japanese. They build stuff with diligent attention to detail. They check and recheck and have checks on the checkers.
They design items with great care and attention to the circumstances in which they will operate.

If there's a cable running into its outer casing, or wires in a harness going into a joint, it has a neat little rubber boot on it, to ensure that it's fully sealed against dust, water, salt, and aggressive chemicals in the soils.
The British however, will decide that saving 25p on eliminating each rubber boot in a vehicle is great idea to increase sagging profitability - and besides, the owners can replace the wiring and cables more often then, can't they? - thus improving the highly profitable parts end of the business.

Unfortunately, the British have constantly shot themselves in the foot with their attitude to work and manufacturing, and the lack of attention to the quality of the end product.
Britain used to have a motorbike industry of renown. Then the Japanese beat them there, too - with a vastly improved product with superior quality and finish at every level.
The British motorbike manufacturing industry collapsed within a few years and has never recovered.

Despite the Japanese buying into, and moving into, British factories and trying to educate the British workers on how to do things the Japanese way, they still have a constant struggle to get Japanese build quality from their British factories.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 12:47

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 12:47
A tad harsh Ron .... however I must admit I can find no instance in which your argument is flawed. Sometimes the truth must out, warts and all.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 16:01

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 16:01
Think there might have been a couple of decent people come out from England Ron. None with your work ethics or intellectual capacity of course.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 16:05

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 16:05
Perhaps James Cook and Joseph Banks ........?
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:18

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:18
David - My old man was born in Southern England and my mother was a Scot. I'm not tarring every British person with the same brush - just the belligerent ones who believe that unions rule the workplace with thuggery and intimidation, and think they can call all the shots.
I've seen them in action on minesites, rabble-rousing the workers, and intimidating them into strike action. We've still got them here, but fortunately they're no longer in the majority.
They ruled in the shipyards of S.A. when the Collins-class subs were built, and thus we ended up with the equivalent of British cars for Australian subs - unreliable, with major cost over-runs because a welder wasn't allowed to tighten screws or replace light globes.
There's a report in the Australian about how the efficiency of the ASC shipyards tradesmen was measured at 30% - that's 2.4 effective hours of work in an 8 hr day.
That kind of BS lies in the Britain of the 1960's and 1970's, where unions ruled with pettiness and thuggery, and refused to accept inevitable change and competition from overseas labour.
What is lacking in these workers is pride in the product they produce, and putting the effort into making sure they are put together right.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Penchy - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 15:36

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 15:36
I was recently looking into the Defender 90 as a possible upgrade to my current 4wd. So I got on the interweb and did some searching for problems people have with them. I also joined the Land Rover forum and searched their threads. It turns out that not all Defender 90 owners are indeed happy ones. It seems the biggest complaint comes from driveline lash when changing gears, with many apparent solutions to fix this according to other members. These members also played down this by saying the experience drivng a LR is compensation for these sorts of issues. I disagree. Changing my driving style to adapt to a vehicles limitations in this day and age is not acceptable for me. And what driving experience does a Landy offer that other cars do not? If a Lara Croft look alike was in the passenger seat full time then I guess drive line lash could then be overlooked.
AnswerID: 542291

Reply By: Member - KBAD - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:27

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:27
Series 1 short wheel base old man bought it from new last i saw it, it was still running that was in 1996 albeit it had a full turn of the steering wheel free play topped out at a staggering 35mph, engine and driveline never rebuilt or touched, must admit the brakes were a bit spongy in the end : )
Series III with a holden 186 in it same deal as the above still going but had had a few axle replacements. Had a few "vents in the mudguards" courtesy of a few scrub bulls, scary how that aluminium opens up, especially when there are no doors on the vehicle and the bull is along side.
Helped out a few luckless people with Disco's along the road, the TD5 with the small radiator / heater hose hidden behind the turbo heat shield, don't understand why you would hide a perishable part in such a place?
All in all i will stick to my toyota with the 6.5 in it.
AnswerID: 542297

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