Ford Ranger Pk Pj and the Bt50 makes the landy look good

Submitted: Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 17:54
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Hi
After reading the comments on the Land Rover in all its forms and its woes ,it makes me think I would have had less trouble with one of those ha ha ha .

The story
Priced all the newer utes and the Landy at the time . Approx price for the equivilant [cannot remember the price ] was around double . Hate to think of what the parts are worth and god help u if u require anything sprecial .Only 1 in Australia and u need 2 [struck this b4 ]

This is not a bitch but if anybody has constructive opinions they will greatly be appreciated.
Hirise 4x2 & 4x4
Very very similar utes

Issues that I am aware of
Plumber friend rear diff bearing collapse and destruction 100% new diff just out of warranty approx. 80,000km All at his expense many thousands

Workshop owner /atv seller
Blown egr cooler and leaked fluid into head = cracked head and cooller
5th gear issues repair gearbox
120,000km All the above parts at his expense

Workshop /hire
Thrown conrod hanging out of block =destroyed engine
3 months out of warranty NO WARRANTY.
All his expense
This business has approx. 200 hire utes 90% Toyota and Zero major issues in 25 yrs

My issues
G/box synchros 1st 2nd 3rd need replacing 80,000km
Shifts like a pos
clutch and flywheel replaced 70,000km my expense
clutch master and slave 70,000km replaced my expense
Airconditioner suffering from major major head pressure u can hear the a/c compressor [adjusted pressures at the dealer ] THE SYSTEM HAD THE GAS AMOUNT REDUCED CAUSING POOR PERFORMANCE doh doh .........
Air con does not work at all gas was reduced just enough so the compressor would cut in above the low pressure cut out but useless in reality
Inlet manifold sludgy inside
Sensors in manifold constantly have build up clean every service
EGR ""junk Pump"" needs revision or blocking
Tail shaft center yoke nut comes loose and wears out the splines
FUEL ISSUES
99% always the same station 4 fuel
2 issues
1, Surging coughing unknown how the dealer fixed this [blamed filter yea right ]
2, cranking a few seconds and most times u have to restart but no fuel [mechanical] or fuel [electrics] This problem has not been solved .

***At my request*** the injectors and pump were removed and tested 1500 km away instead of local . The injectors were faulty [picked up 200kms per tank ]
pump supposedly ok Later the no1 injector failed test, replaced
Stripped out a/c adjuster when doing pump many thanks to the local dealer
The fuel filter was never changed when the injectors were done doh doh
The battery was decided worn out by ford . I tested OK. Still Using this battery in another ute

If I could afford to buy another ute I would
I would not get your lawn mower serviced at the local Townsville Ford Dealer [he owns others up and down the coast also including Mazda dealers ]
This is all verifiable so there is no slander just FACT

By the way its not the impact guns that wreck your wheel studs and nuts 90% of the time . Lack of lube and poor quality nuts usally are to blame .
A 3-4 ft bar is needed to wind the nuts off all the way down the stud .
MANY THANKS FORD possibly over looked under warranty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea I purchased a Toyota next

swampfox/tomo







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Reply By: swampfox - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:09

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:09
HI
The bucket seat lumbar supports split and stick u with wire ,Hiluxes do not do this and of course this happens in the 4th yr just out of warranty .
Ford tough what a joke .Any ute from Thailand is inferior . Not much option in Australia .At the time I needed the more powerful ute versus the tojo . The tojo came later for a family hack .
swamp fox
Ps the tojo hilux my12 upgrade [current] are not that bullet proof although it appears to be better than the pj pk Rangers .

pk pj ranger 60-63ltrs 400kms 14-15-16 ltr /100kms towing in town and no trailer highway around 11 ltr per 100

tojam Hilux current 8-11ltr /100kms , 630km town driving per tank

Both are 3ltr TDiesels
swampfox



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Follow Up By: swampfox - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:10

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:10
HI
To all ,
Almost forgot the power steering box has a awfull whine at times .Started at around 40,000km . Of course it only happened a handful of times in warranty.
The rubber flaps to let the body breathe deteriate and let the cab fill with water .

swampfox
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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:13

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:13
Swampfox,

A sad tale indeed but other brands including Toyota have their issues also.

I'm sure their are plenty of BT50 owners on here that are very happy with their cars, pity though that we don't have lemon laws here.

Interesting about the Ford dealers,my mate had a Jackaroo and was very happy with it though it to had its problems but was generally a good car. Mate brought a Toyota for his next car though as he said he would never buy another car through Holden as the dealerships serve was pitiful.

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Reply By: Notso - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:59

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 18:59
I've got a BT50 at the moment. Not a bad vehicle but I just can't "Love IT".

I've owned 9 vehicles in my 53 years of driving and never the same brand twice. I must say I have loved most of them, but there's something about the BT50 I can't fall in love with. Maybe it's Ford Heritage is getting in the way.
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Follow Up By: swampfox - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 19:33

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 19:33
HI
Ford and other makers have forgotten a long time ago how to take pride in there brand particularly within Australia . The lack of assistance with the above repairs indicates that .
The car makers do not practice what they preach at all .

We are treated like mushrooms to put it kindly .
The treatment of customers in OZ is pathetic compared to the standard of some other countries. The products we are offered are low spec and over priced &poor quality.
Not very economical buying

In the national news the other day was a 4.5 tonne Dodge Ram Diesel long bed base model is only 20,000 grand
Great work truck !!!
Swampfox
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Reply By: Bigfish - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 20:12

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 20:12
I have spent the last 4 days going around all the major car dealers in Cairns looking at new 4wd,s. The variety is staggering. What am I after? Well now I am confused. I started off with the hilux. About $53,000 for what I want. Isuzu $45,000,Patrol $60,00, Pajero $55,00, Triton $40,000. Wouldn,t go near a landy from personal experience. VW are just plain expensive and an unknown. Jeep has yet to quantify itself in my opinion.
Didn't look at the ranger as although I am a ford man I am not a ranger fan. The horror stories of how ford are selling cheap plastic parts for astronomical amounts has put me off.
I surfed the internet and reckon I have read every review on the above mentioned vehicles. The reviews from overseas writers/owners and others proves that Australia does indeed get a cheaper , nastier version of many models. Our luxury models here are not luxury over seas. The price we pay for a new vehicle must have the manufacturers laughing all the way to the bank. The feed back from unhappy customers regarding Nissan Company has scared me off from a navara or the fuel guzzling , hand grenade patrol. I had a 3.0l patrol for about 5 years. Expensive tractor as far as I am concerned.But, it could a beating off road! Pity they lost the 4.2 turbo.

The vehicle that I am now looking at is a 2015 Pajero. Product reviews from actual owners shows a very high percentage of happy owners. Reviews from motoring "experts" lament that the design is dated( like the Hi-lux). Seriously..they also give it a score out of 10 for a cars ability to have bluetooth, connect an i-pod, ease of touch screen. Why? Its a bloody car, not a mobile phone. The motor (3.2 diesel) is rock solid and frugal on fuel. Interior has heaps of room. Flooring is garbage but mats and covers may help.

Yes, I have gone from 4 door utes to 4 door wagon. I was flexible in my choice. Doesn't phase me what I get. Still deliberating but after so much home-work the Pajero is looking good.

At least until someone else turns me off!....lol
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:03

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:03
Bigfish

Have a look at the Amarok and take one for a test drive.

I have an Amarok and couldn't be happier. You state they are expensive. Pricing is competitive.
An auto trendline like mine is $48,990.
Unknown. A lot on them are around these days and have not had many issues.

The same motor is used in the transporter and has a reputation for reliability. Some business keep them for 700,000 kms without any problems.

I average about 9.1 ltr/100 kms around town. Towing on trips about 12 ltr/100 kms. Economy on the highway not towing varies depending on what speed I am doing. The speed limit in the NT is 130 km/h. Sitting on that I use about 10.5 ltr/100 km.

My daughter/son in law have a BT50 and they are extremely happy with it.


Regards


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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:21

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:21
It has been said in other publications that Amaroks are not suited to heavy towing due to their Dualmass flywheel.

I have two other VW models so follow the brand a bit and some have had problems and installed a single mass replacement.

Was mentioned in the Courier Mail motoring questions a few weeks ago amongst other places.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:38

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:38
Bigfish - Yes, you're spot-on with motoring "experts" reviews giving huge kudos for bluetooth, touch-screens, i-pods and top sound systems. Then they just fail to mention all the important things like the poor wading depth, the excessive amounts of trouble-prone electrics, the constant requirement for highly-specialised service tools, the lack of service knowledge and skills amongst dealer staff, the dreadful attitude of many dealers to purchasers who complain about faults - and the often expensive additions required, such as computerised adaptors for trailer wiring, just to affix a towbar.

Unfortunately, many 4WD vehicles of today have lost their way, from their original purpose and use.
That was - a reliable, basically simple, but comfortable vehicle, to provide satisfactory off-road performance in regions where the roads are rough, and the service depts are few and far between.

The drive by the marketing and sales depts, for their desires to be met, has over-ridden buyers requirements, and vehicles today must have all the latest electronic and telecommunication gizmos that make it the equivalent of a mobile lounge-room - or it will never sell! Besides, there's virtually no unsealed or gravel roads left in Australia, is there? [;-)
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 23:04

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 23:04
TomH

Found the following article:

THE constant drive towards greater refinement has given rise to a number of designs that are worth admiring. The dual-mass flywheel (DMF) is high on my list, because it successfully reduces the vibration that an engine will normally transmit into the gearbox, but there is a downside, as we shall see.

An engine that is properly balanced still vibrates in a number of ways. This is caused by the combustion forces acting on the pistons and con-rods at regular intervals. One of these vibrational modes is torsional and the effect is worse at low engine speeds and large throttle openings. Diesel engine vibration is up to four times more severe under these conditions than that of petrol engines.

A DMF is built-up from two flywheels that are about the same diameter as a single flywheel would be, so each one will have about one-half the mass of a single flywheel The first flywheel is attached to the crankshaft and spigotted into the second flywheel in such a way that the two ‘wheels are able to oscillate with respect to each other.

This movement is controlled by circumferential springs working against stops so that the first flywheel is able to vibrate with the crankshaft while the springs ensure that very little of this vibration gets transferred to the second flywheel. A normal clutch unit, but without springs in the hub of the driven plate, is bolted to the second flywheel and the gearbox input shaft is splined to the driven plate of this clutch. The result is that very little torsional vibration gets transmitted to the rest of the drivetrain, resulting in a smooth and silent driving experience.

The amount of oscillation that takes place is directly related to engine speed and the load. This means that when you combine a large throttle opening with a low engine speed the oscillation will be severe, but as the engine speed climbs, or the throttle opening is reduced, the oscillation will die down.

Unfortunately, the DMFs on some vehicles are not as robust as they should be. Recently, within one week we had three readers complaining about these units failing at mileages below 100 000 km. In the first case, one of the circumferential springs had broken, but in the other two cases the driven plates were worn out. All three vehicles were outside the warranty time period, so their owners had to pay in excess of R20 000 to have the complete DMF unit replaced. It seems that repairs to these units are not allowed, or are not feasible due to the parts not being available.

Such prices are unreasonable and bear no relationship to the cost price of the components to the OE manufacturers. This is one more example of the exploitation of motorists that is very common. Our contacts in the trade have provided an idea of the car models that are particularly prone to these failures, but it is unsubstantiated information. However, Googling the phrase dual-mass failure on the Internet provides food for thought.

What can a motorist do to give the DMF an easy time? Avoid the driving conditions that lead to a lot of torsional vibration. This means that lugging, combining a large throttle opening with a low engine speed, should be avoided. This is fairly easy advice to follow on a petrol-engined vehicle, but on a modern turbodiesel that develops maximum torque at about 1 500 r/min, lugging seems to be harmless, though sensitive drivers will notice the onset of vibration as the throttle is opened. This advice is especially relevant if you carry a heavy load or tow a trailer.

An alternative and much cheaper repair method is to replace the DMF unit with an old-fashioned flywheel and clutch assembly. This is being done in SA in a number of cases when the parts are available, and is already big business in the USA. The penalty is that increased vibration will be fed into the transmission, but if the driver avoids lugging this may not even be very noticeable.""
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 05:28

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 05:28
I looked at the VW. The fact that spare parts are very expensive(rip off again) has turned me off them. I have heard of reliability issues as well. Now I am aware that all vehicles have issues. The thing that annoys me is the absolute garbage manufacturers are putting into our 4wds now. The huge array of electronic gadgetry means that the sucker who buys one is gunna pay big bucks for over priced unreliable parts down the track. With the older toyotas and nissans if you broke down out bush chances were that within a few hours you were on your way again. Nowadays chances are some electronic sensor has malfunctioned, put your car into stop/limp mode and many thousands of dollars later your vehicle is on the back of a flatbed being towed to a stealer to fix the problem. Which,naturally, wont be under warranty because you dont know how to drive!!!

Whilst the Pajero and the hilux(patrol too) are an old design running older,proven motors and don't have the electronic gadgetry found in some vehicles they seem to get the best reviews from owners. Would buy a Patrol tomorrow but I am afraid that 3.0l motor scares the bejeezuz out of me!!Tick,tick,tick.

Car manufacturers could solve all problems tomorrow if they wanted. Drop half of their models and the models you do retain...build to quality --not quantity..
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Follow Up By: TomH - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:29

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:29
To Kumunara.. Yes interesting and basically what I was getting at.

Is that in support of what I said or in denial of it

Not sure as you didnt comment.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 09:34

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 09:34
Funny, I raised a similar question 8 years ago on this site....

Thread 38995
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 14:04

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 14:04
TomH

It is basically in support of what you said in regards to problems with the DMF.

VW is not the only make that use DMF. A lot of manufacturers use it including, Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc.

You wonder how many people have problems with it and how much has to do with driving style.

I bought a second hand Patrol years ago with about 40,000 kms on the clock and a new clutch had been put in that vehicle prior to my purchasing it. I drove it for about another 250,000 kms before selling it. I never had to replace the clutch. Most of the kms I did were towing.

I replaced the patrol with an auto Amarok so for me the DMF will not be an issue in my VW.



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Reply By: Tony O1 - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:24

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 21:24
Hi Swampfox,

It is healthy to have a rant but it must be relevant. You are complaining about a Ford/Mazda model that went out of production in 2011.

I do not compare my current model BT-50 to a Landrover Discovery and the issues they have because they come from completely different vehicle stables.

I have not had any problems with my current truck which I purchased in the NT. In fact it is awesome and leaves the aged Hiliux D4D in its wake. Compared to my previous Prado 90, it is steaks ahead. The Prado had stuffed t-case seals in the first 20,000 km, dash grab handles coming loose, so no vehicle is immune to problems.
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Follow Up By: swampfox - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 22:25

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 22:25
High
Not dishing out really as I did consider purchasing from the landy dealer .His unhelpfull attitude and way high price was the deal breaker. I was also was prepared to have less torque .

The comparison was a 07 ranger and the current landies at the time
Even thou I know little of there heritage and current model comparison as people say if I had it over again a 2 year old unit probably would have been a better choice for me .

swamp fox /tomo
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Reply By: swampfox - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 22:14

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 22:14
hi
The current hilux is basic but many of the issues are sorted out . A demo model 1-2 year old perhaps
A my 12 upgrade [current shape ] The SR version full electrics cruise and ABS.
Only available in the sr5 prior to this upgrade.
The current hilux has limited power[lower than competition ] and one of the smallest towing capacity

The """new""" Hilux due 2015 should be a great unit but as always very spendy .
In SR form the new unit should have enough luxury .

There will be a wagon of the new version also . Possibly coil springs all the way round

swampfox
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Reply By: Slow one - Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 22:32

Friday, Nov 28, 2014 at 22:32
Slop Box,
Well you have opened my eyes and I will be buying a Great Wall next as the owners I know, have had virtually no problems at all. At least they are not made in Thailand like your Hilux.

I will have to look into why Toyota don't put lube on their wheel studs as they seem to strip the same as others when rattle guns are used with wrong torque settings.

I have seen a few con rods thrown and I gotta admit I am not an expert, this is not until the modern technology came along and sorta proved that the engines had been over reved big time when the program was downloaded. Gotta love technology, you should see some of the truck engine over rev readouts.

Then there is the clutch I don't know if we are both talking about the same vehicle, my sons had a high performance ecm tune and went like a rocket until he sold it (work ute always loaded}. It was very quick and it had no problems at all. Guess some don't know how to use a clutch and the available power. I won't even go into gearbox syncros, as most now what causes their destruction and it ain't the manufacturer.

Thanks for the heads up Sunshine. But the best way is to look at the reported problems with a vehicle model and not what someone has had a problem with.

I do know who your dealer is and maybe this is some of the problem.


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Follow Up By: swampfox - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 01:38

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 01:38
HI
The servicing dealer was the Carmicheal group Ford/Mazda.
The worn sychros are from towing a 1000kg-15000kg trailer for my contracting business. NO drag racing changes here.

Difficult to change cold
Rough and resistant to change when hot
No where near the change quality of a new vehicle
To have the synchros worn this much is ridiculous at 80,000km

The studs/nuts on the Ranger are courtesy of ford
I should not have to mention it to Ford or have to replace them myself .Replace all the nuts and replace the studs if still binding.

The same happened on my old Mitsubishi Triton 270,000kms

The Hilux studs/nuts are ok

Swampfox
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Follow Up By: swampfox - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 02:03

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 02:03
HI
Late model clutches particularly 4cylinderTurbo Diesel wear out quicker than an aftermarket one.
The rangers are very sensative to operation or the engine stalls . No riding/ slipping of the clutch here .
Changing of ranger clutches is not unusal around the 80,ooo-to 100,000-kms

The Hilux 30,000kms has had 3 clutches 2 guenuine and 1x aftermarket
The factory units loose grip after driving for a while 1hr at 100km/hr
Fuel economy fluctuates and the throttle response on hiway is poor .
The revs do fluctuate /flare u can feel it after driving on cruise control but u will barely notice it on the tacho.

There is nothing wrong with the Great Walls as such .
Similar to other brands that have come and gone . This also affects there resale . History of similar is that it would pay to keep the ute till the wheels fall off . I hope they stick around as the Thailand utes are nothing special . If I have further grief I will be in the line up .

swampfox
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:24

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:24
Buy a Toyota
As my old mechanic mate has always said ( 40 years in the trade )
They are not perfect (more expensive for a reason ) but they will generally be more reliable than any other vehicle out there .He also gives the Pajaro a decent rap .
He wouldn't touch a European, British , or a yanks counterpart.
If I did not listen to him I would be foolish .

Cheers
AnswerID: 542316

Reply By: Tuco - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 09:58

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 09:58
Land Rover are spewing over the "Land Wind" copy of Range Rover being built in China!
Chinese Range Rover
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:12

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:12
HAHAHA...The Chinese have been doing this for decades. Not only that but many companies getting goods manufactured in China also have to compete with the Chinese selling the very same product at a 1/4 of the price on e-bay. I bought a Harley Davidson jacket for $200 delivered to my door for $200. The exact same thing in a HD store was $700...Go figure. Still see harley products advertised on Chinese sites..

Many car parts, tools etc.etc are blatant copies..Quality could be good or poxy, depends on your luck. They even have companies imitating the copies and selling them cheaper than the original copy in an effort to make money.
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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:10

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:10
Interesting write-up about the DMF's. As a matter of interest, 20,000.00 ZAR = 2,124.46 AUD. The Rand is currently at 9.4 to the Aussie dollar.

The problem with DMF's, and particularly in their current form, is that they are purely and simply, a complex and unnecessarily expensive device - and they become highly trouble-prone as they age.
DMF's behind diesels are source of problems because of cost-cutting in the designs that does not account for the higher torque, and higher torsional impulses of a diesel engine - and particularly, 4 cyl diesels.

This is just one of the numerous reasons why diesel engines have not made major inroads into the light aircraft engine power market.
The torsional impulses are much greater than current petrol aircraft engines and there's a need for a rubber coupling to dampen the diesels torsional impulses to prevent propeller and propeller hub damage.

The simple fact that there's a sizeable market in selling simple, proven, heavy duty single plate clutches, and single heavy flywheels, as a replacement for DMF's, shows that DMF's are an expensive cure (to the owner) to a problem created by vehicle designers.

6 cylinder engines produce less crankshaft vibrations and torsional vibrations than 4 cylinder engines, simply because of the increased number of firing strokes at reduced angles between them.
The problem has been the manufacturers desire to eliminate 6 cyl engines from their lineups and their efforts to make 4 cyl engines produce more power and torque than the 6 cyl engines they replace.
The problem is exacerbated by designers (European designers in particular) who insist that a highly stressed, high power output, 2.0L, 4 cyl engine can do the same job as a 4.2L 6cyl engine.

Anyone who has ever read "The History of Holden" will know that GM designed the FX (or more correctly, the 48-215) as a 6 cylinder - even though it was only 2.2L - to reduce the need for a stronger and heavier driveline, which a 4 cyl engine would have needed.

DMF's in their current form, are an expensive idea that people will eventually refuse to start buying - particularly when the horror stories of DMF repair costs become widespread and general knowledge.

There's quite likely an opening for someone to manufacture a simple rubber torsional coupling to replace the DMF.
Rubber torsional couplings and vibration dampers have been around for 80 or 90 years, it's not like they're recent design hi-tech technology.

The problem is that a rubber torsional coupling might cost the manufacturer an extra $5 per vehicle and eliminate millions in current parts sales.
You could imagine how well that goes down with the miserable, stone-faced, penny-counting bean counters who run these companies with an iron fist.

The clutch problems are largely related to the total elimination of asbestos from clutches (and brakes, too).
Despite its dreadful legacy, asbestos was a superb product for clutches and brakes. Unfortunately, asbestos kills - and it's still killing - and it had to be eliminated from all industrial use.

However, manufacturers were behind the 8-ball when it came to finding a suitable low-cost replacement (or replacements) for asbestos, because the banning of asbestos was forced on them, before they could find a suitable replacement.
No one company wants to spend a fortune on research and testing to find new products today.
It's not like there's a war on, like WW2 - where so many of even our current designs and materials still hail from.

So the companies scrambled to find asbestos replacements. They have tried hundreds of materials, then reduced that to dozens. The problem is today, they use customers as their test bed.
No longer do they absorb research and testing costs and delays themselves, before putting a new product on the market - the customer can do it for them!

As a result, we now find that products that used to perform beautifully with long life and reliability, now fail much sooner and cost us more than they ever did before.
It's all to do with the new "consumer-friendly" products and materials that we are unwittingly testing for free, when we buy a new vehicle today.

The problem with wheel studs and nuts is possibly related to two likely factors.
One is the constant drive to higher tensile low alloy steels in the manufacture of vehicles.
This leads to weight saving and increased strength - but with a couple of downsides.

One downside is that high tensile low alloy steel, by its very nature, has an increasing tendency to corrode. If panels are made from HT tensile steel (now common), then they are made thinner, because of their inherent additional strength - but they are also more prone to corrosion.

With the wheel studs and nuts, higher tensile steels lead to increased chances of corrosion, particularly when water crossings are frequent - and higher tensile steels are more prone to "metal galling" - what many refer to as "threads picking up" - i.e., when the threads on a stud and nut effectively weld themselves together as you try to undo them.
The result from both corroded or galled threads is identical - totally destroyed threads. A sniff of nickel-based anti-seize is a necessity with these style of threads.

Surprisingly, Toyota manuals still insist that wheel studs and nuts be kept clean and dry, and not "oiled", for fear of wheelnuts coming undone.
However, nickel-based anti-seize has only minimal lube qualities, it contains a small amount of mineral oil to assist with application, but it can never be classed as a lubricant.
What the anti-seize does do, very effectively, through grease, water and exceptionally high temperatures, is prevent thread galling.
You can use nickel anti-seize on manifold studs and nuts, and they will still come undone easily even when the nut has corroded away so badly, you need vice grips to grip the nut.

The second factor that possibly applies to the wheel stud/nut problem - and this applies across a wide range of components - is the increasing amount of Chinese-sourced components.
Many Toyota, Ford, Mazda and Mitsubishi owners would probably be staggered at the volume of Chinese-sourced components in their current-model vehicles.
Most certainly, the Thailand-built vehicles (which includes almost all of the 4WD utes currently sold in Australia - except for the VW) use quite a sizeable percentage of Chinese origin components. VW probably still utilise a number of Chinese components, too.

The problem with Chinese components is their regular failure to meet QC controls.
It's known as Chinese "quality fade". It's recognised world-wide in manufacturing, and it's something that manufacturers tear their hair out over.

The "QF" problem is two-fold. The manufacturers are constantly striving for lower costs, to increase profitability and return to shareholders.
Customers come a very distant last in todays highly privatised world - shareholders, CEO's and banks are always first, and product reliability is no longer a "key word" or aim.

So the manufacturers bean counters give a supply contract to a Chinese manufacturer, and things start to roll smoothly.
Initial deliveries are good quality - then the bean counters start to apply the thumbscrews.
"We need to shave 3.6% off our suppliers margins, they're too high, and affecting our bottom line".

So the Chinese, already under price pressure, immediately find ways to lower prices again. "They want cheaper? We'll give them cheaper!".
However, the cost savings come in unscrupuluous activities such as reducing the steel specifications, the heat treatments, a reduction in the alloy content, shortcutting any QC procedures.
The Chinese rely on setting a good initial standard of product, then look at lowering that standard, the instant they know they aren't being scrupulously watched and tracked.

Thus we suddenly have stories of component failures in near new vehicles, that are traced to Chinese components suppliers that have failed to meet original specifications in the product supplied.
Add in frequent corruption within China and most of Asia (kickbacks and bribery that are simply regarded as "the price of doing business"), and you have the scene set for constant failures in QC, in reliability, and in product standards.

The CEO's and the bean counters constantly shoot themselves in the foot on these angles, but it means little to them.
The bottom line on the balance sheet is the only figure that matters - reliability, reputation, and customers, can always be purchased, to their way of thinking.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 542320

Follow Up By: swampfox - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 18:35

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 18:35
HI
Cheers for the wright up .
Another way by the Chinese is to design items to the lowest standard and only up grade what fails.This is most evident in the 3000- 4000 dollar small engine field . Designed in the usa and made in china . Upgraded parts, coils, inlet manifold 5 times, upgraded cylinder heads 3times, rubber parts and gaskets . These still are a problem . The Japanese str mtr was of a 10hp fitted to 30hp The larger Chinese str mtr fixed this .

If u can control the design and manufacture process 110 percent ,I have found USA design china made is ok .
This was for a 2 post clear floor hoist ,some very good design features .
Other Chinese design and made hoists I have looked at have very very poor design eg pre bent arms that donot allow for good under vehicle acess. The only good thing about these is that they r cheap $$ 3000
The Chinese hoist donot survive outside .

The USA designed hoist .The oldest outside in the weather is 12 yr old in town . Mine is 4yr old . All have seen cyclones etc
The hoist company is a huge player in the USA
Yes the maker even has an Australian agent /workshop
Yes Chinese made does work when they have little to do with whole process. ha ha ha ha ha
Evidence of there rubbish product is why copy some thing when the copy is crap. They are no good at copied stuff .
swampfox
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FollowupID: 828614

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 20:59

Saturday, Nov 29, 2014 at 20:59
"Buy at the end of a model run" is still the best way to get a reliable vehicle. Maybe that's where the current Hilux sits compared to the other utes?
AnswerID: 542339

Follow Up By: Bigfish - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 08:09

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 08:09
Mate came round with a brand new sr5 hilux yesterday. Added alloy bullbar, tub liner, $51,000 drive away. Looked nice He has had hi-lux since the first model and trades in every 4 years. He said that he has never had to spend a cent, apart from services, on any of his vehicles. Very technically minded and clever this chap. Reckon that's what I will be doing from now on. Buying new and trading after 3-4 years. Many manufacturers are at the end of their model run now. Toyota, mitsubishi and nissan will have brand new versions next year. Reckon the end of run -out model sale makes sense..
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FollowupID: 828633

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:38

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:38
Your mate is smart. Gets 3 years warranty, no repair costs, brand new everything, cheap fixed price servicing and he's bought a vehicle with great resale value that will be easily sold/traded after 3-4 years. Most of that is what Toyotas and some of the other Jap brands are about. Very hard to do that with a Disco, Toureg, Amarok, BMW and even Lexus (which depreciates quickly to the price of a regular Toyota).
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FollowupID: 828640

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:43

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:43
Just to add that that assumes your mate enjoys driving a Hilux.

People own the european brands because they are enjoyable to drive. When we first bought my wife's VW, I kept finding nice things and thought that the Tiguan was designed by someone who enjoys driving vehicles. Its a lot more fun than the 200series. Its now 6 years old, has cost us zero in repairs and it's very simple to maintain (I DIY)(once a year only).
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FollowupID: 828642

Follow Up By: Member - PhilD_NT - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:39

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:39
Wow, 3-4 years ownership to avoid maintenance bills. Makes my 35 year ownership of a Range Rover looking like I must have had a very expensive time. In it's whole life it spent far less time in a workshop than my new 4x4 did in 6 weeks to find a single fault.

By the way, Hilux's aren't that perfect. My son recently bought an SR5 for his Company and on pickup the dash radio and command screen was faulty and blanked out and required a new one due to an apparently known fault. It was driveable but annoying to wait a couple of weeks to have it become available. The air-conditioning condenser was damaged but not leaking (yet) and the grill wasn't attached properly. These 2 things suggested that it may have been done while the Toyota bulbar and other accessories were being fitted but he was asked about trading off the condenser replacement for a free service (declined) but doesn't make a Toyota Dealer look any better than other brands as far as customer care goes. That said the Landcruiser twin cab ute was my first choice because of Dealer availability in remote areas but it didn't have a factory fitted auto and a bit too truck like for the wife.
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FollowupID: 828648

Follow Up By: Bigfish - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:00

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:00
Yeah,yeah, yeah......
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FollowupID: 828650

Reply By: Bigfish - Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 08:11

Sunday, Nov 30, 2014 at 08:11
Forgot to add...The Hi-lux has an unreal resale value. Couple of years old and very close to new car price. Maybe due to prices being slashed for end of model runouts as well..
AnswerID: 542359

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