Submitted: Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 17:52
ThreadID: 110469 Views:10530 Replies:8 FollowUps:34
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Just wondering who has done this and how much it would cost to do properly, and is there anyone you can recommend in Brisbane to do it?
Body is excellent but the 2f is leaded and not economical. I also am considering it as my tourer and getting rid of my V8 100 series (chews fuel) and I hate computers especially if I am travelling, as I can do the basic mechanics and do not want to get caught out in the outback.
Any thoughts would be appreciated as I am struggling with this.

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Reply By: get outmore - Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 18:59

Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 18:59
sorry but what your saying doesnt make much sense

if you want to swap donks you would do so purely for the project reason because nothing else in your thread makes economic, practical or common sense

the amount it will cost you will buy a heap of fuel so doing it to save fuel makes no sense
and swapping a an old 60 series for a 100 series because you can do your own mechanics makes even less sense (you will end up doing a crap load more bush mechanics on an old banger)
i could go on but to sum up
makes no sense unless you enjoy a mecahnical project
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 19:18

Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 19:18
I've got to agree with GOM. Doesn't make sense at all with fuel prices dropping like a stone.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 19:55

Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 19:55
even then
like i always say
fuel is the cheapest part about owning a vehicle
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Follow Up By: morto1701@gmail.com - Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 20:24

Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 20:24
Your right guys, I only worked out the numbers before to find it was a waste of time.
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Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 07:57

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 07:57
I have to disagree that a old banger won't be reliable.

My 3f has taken us everywhere without any problems what so ever. If you look after your truck, it will look after you. We have come across diesels having problems in the bush, always computer problems.

Also our 3f uses 1/3 more fuel than diesels, maintenance on the 3f is less than 1/5th of a diesel.

The 80 is 3 ton loaded and pulls a Jayco Outback Finch.

The 3f's torque is currently sitting @ 360nm, $4k being spent on her this Jan to lift her specs close to modern day stock diesel output specs.

I always surprise many 4wder's out on the track when they find out I'm running a petrol carby.

FollowupID: 830063

Follow Up By: morto1701@gmail.com - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 10:58

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 10:58
Thanks Cruiser 91, the computer is one of the issues my wife is concerned about as well. If it is an older vehicle it is easier to fix. MOst problems can be dealt with on the side of the road if you are prepared!
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 13:53

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 13:53
morto perhaps you should do some research as to how many 100s get stuck on the side of the road with a dead computer

I think you will find its a minute % of how many old bangers termanally give up the ghost.

besides from my travels i would say 99% of issues are from auxillery items, tyres, batteries, radiators and wheel related
the engine computer or not is generally the MOST reliable part of the vehicle
--- your looking for a problem to fit your solution
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 13:55

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 13:55
besides on another forum a guy i know got one day into a few week long family holiday and the head on his 2F gave up the ghost causing a very expensive recovery situation from the Nullarbour
- bet he would have given his left nut for your 100 series ....
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 21:34

Friday, Dec 19, 2014 at 21:34
Morto - is the 2F in a 40 or 60? If I was going to swap and the extra dollars were no issue, I'd go with the factory 12HT. Avoid any 2H's with aftermarket turbo's... potential time bomb. Ohterwise, a well maintained 2H is damn near indestructable, however slow.

If you own a 40 and REALLY want to know, I'd suggest you ask here.


Be nice to Nikky and prove you own a fourty.....

AnswerID: 543169

Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 08:05

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 08:05
I considered going down this path with the 3f. Diesel and v8 conversion's. Unless you can do the conversion your self it and keep it road legal it will cost huge dollars.

Recond the 2h with a few mods and a long range tank will cost you far less than any conversion and you will have a very reliable engine that will pull through the gears.
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Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 08:18

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 08:18
Edit: recond the 2f.
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Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 08:24

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 08:24
I also recommend that if you consider revitalising the 2f, find dedicated forums for your truck and gather info from people that have actually done it.

For example: http://forum.ih8mud.com/
FollowupID: 830068

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:35

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:35
One advantage of the old carbies is that if you get a load of dodgy fuel in a remote area the worst that can happen is a couple of clogged jets. Not rocket surgery to clear on the side of the road.
Try that with even an older mechanical diesel fuel pump.
The latest CRD petrol or diesel??
Better hope the phone has at least a bar or two and the bank balance is looking fairly healthy.

FollowupID: 830082

Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:41

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:41

ive had dodgey fuel - stopped my old girl dead

all i had to do was change the fuel filter and away i went
- the permanant fix took longer like draining the fuel tank and changing the filter a few times

thing is we tend to forget carbies were more tempremental than an 18 year old girlfriend and back in the day were the cause of more frustration and hassel than a $10 bank balance and $1000 drug debt

gimmie fuel injection for reliability ANY day
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:57

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 10:57
pop, I've yet to figure out what will stop a 2H - I once drove it for 2 days without an alternator or battery .....

Petrol engine - good luck !
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 20:59

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 20:59
yes they could be harder to stop than start.
The last toyota engine built that didn't rely on electronics to go (yes the 1hz does and ive seen them stopped by electrical gremlins)
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Follow Up By: morto1701@gmail.com - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 21:22

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 21:22
Hi Scott she is a 60 series. I intended to drive the 2f as long as possible, just a pain being a leaded and having to put additive in every time as well.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 21:33

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 21:33
get outmore,

Explain to me what "electronics" could stop a 1HZ??

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 21:51

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 21:51

Yeah, the ol' 2H took some stopping, but like any diesel (and I own one) get a load of water through the system and that could well be the death knell. High pressure diesel injection don't appreciate injecting water.
Not that in "diesel" terms the 2H used such a high pressure.
Get a load of water through a carby petrol engine and a good clean out will see you on your way again. The worst case scenario is that it will put out the fire in your cylinders temporarily.
An old tea strainer would be good enough filtration for one of them old bangers as far as dirt goes.
I must admit, having worked in a diesel fuel injection shop many years ago I do have a preference for an in line fuel pump over a rotary.

FollowupID: 830175

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:19

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:19

If adding fuel additive is getting to be a pain in the posterior, take the head off and take it to a reputable cylinder head repair joint and get them to fit a set of Stellite (or similar) valve seats and suitable valves.
No more additives (:=))

FollowupID: 830176

Reply By: Member - eighty matey - Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 21:16

Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 at 21:16
G'day Morto,

I've been rereading old 4wd Monthly magazines because they are more relevant to my needs and my vehicle.

I just read in issue 56, August 2003, a bloke took out the original 3B out of his 1983 BJ42 and put in a 2H out of a 60 series.

He reckons for all the stuffing around it wasn't worth the bother.

AnswerID: 543203

Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:58

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:58
pop ive seen a few stopped by either lack of power to the fuel pump solenoid or the supply wire being broken.
-they need electrics to run
FollowupID: 830179

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 23:14

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 23:14
Dead right mate. They need 12v to operate the solenoid and not many amps. Also a suitably modified shutoff solenoid in the tool kit will get the fuel flowing again if your batteries are absolutely dead. You do need to stall the motor in 4th or some high gear to get them to stop however. Or choke off their air supply. Also you will need to "bump" start. The biggest power requirement is the glow plugs of a 1HZ.
Not much 'electronicery" involved.
This is where an old carby job comes into it's own. No glow plugs, just enough power to get the sparks happening. Even then, a tow start or roll down a hill if available can get enough juice from the alternator to excite the coil.

FollowupID: 830182

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:47

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:47
nope if the battery is dead flat it shuts them down and no you cant bump start them - before I knew how they worked i tried tow starting a 1hz - no can do the fuel solonoid is shut off.
the other thing with a diesel is they need ALOT more battery power than a low compression petrol just to turn over - thats why whenever anyone boasts about how long thier battery has lasted i ask if they have a petrol or diesel
a good battery in a diesel lasts about 2-5 years and in a petrol about 5-7 years
(obviously theres alot of leeway either side of that but thats generally speaking)
FollowupID: 830193

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:58

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:58
as for the 2H I had some repairs dont to mine just before a major trip - and somehow I got it back with the edic motor fried and the glow plugs and glow plug control moduile fried (found that out later)

anyway nothing was going to stop me so I set up a kill for the motor with string leading from under the bonnet to the side mirror - this proved a hassel so ended up stopping it by stalling it

I only found the glow plugs didnt work after getting into Alice springs from darwin and ice on the windscreen - yes they will start with no glow plugs but it takes a good turn over and a white clouds from the exaust that would do woodstock proud everytime you start
FollowupID: 830195

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:43

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:43
Sounds like I am getting you around to my way of thinking (;=)).

Old carby petrol donk, no battery bank that would do a diesel electric sub justice, no fuel solenoid, no glow plugs, no worries about dirt or water doing in your all singing, all dancing injection system, none of them pesky electronically infected fuel systems that you need a doctorate in electrical engineering and enough testing gear that would do a Tricky Dicky shop justice to diagnose a blown fuse, and if necessary your dear octogenarian granny could push start it. (;

Ahhh,,,,, the good ol' days.....lol.

Hmmm, so morto, you wanna get rid of that troublesome petrol engined antediluvian beast of yours and buy a nice new full electronic one??

FollowupID: 830198

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 15:36

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 15:36
except just one thing - reliability....
i was waiting to cross the king edward river a poxy landrover free lander diesel crossed in front of me with water over its wheels - not too high - my 2h cruiser folowed - pffft! no challange ...
i spotted the 2f powered 40 series behind me die in the middle ....

i went to assist - fan had sprayed water on the motor and theose spark plugs your raving about had been killed and the vehuicle was no go in the worst possible spot. were not talking high water either maybe 700mm at most but too much for sparks and carbys
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 16:39

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 16:39
So I'm guessing the driver hadn't stopped to loosen or remove the fan belt, fit a bit of canvas or plastic across the radiator, spray a little water displacing fluid over the distributor, high tension leads and spark plugs and make sure he either had a snorkel fitted or that the water depth was not going to get sucked into the air intake.
And of course all the above would be vehicle's fault, not the lame brain driving it???
Now let's have a look at the same lame brain driving a diesel and trying to cross a creek with water depth high enough to get into the air intake without a snorkel and no canvas across the front or loosened fan belt.
Some possibilities, no probabilities. A hydraulic lock and bent con rod maybe a leg out of bed. A fan that got a bit miffed about being asked to perform the job of a propeller and getting up close and personal with the radiator.
The water would stop a petrol before it would stop a diesel if no precautions were taken The whole point of this discussion is what happens after.
The petrol needs to be towed out and the electrics, no electronics, need drying out. Water sucked into the carby of a petrol? Personally I have never heard of a hydraulic lock causing permanent damage. They usually just stop.
Try the same scenario with the diesel, whether old school or electronic everything. You had better hope the electronic version gets drowned and the engine stops before the water gets sucked in. That happens and it's highly likely the trip home will be on the back of a tilt tray followed by a bill big enough to give our present incumbent treasurer a very big heart palpitation.
I wish I could remember where I saw and could get a copy. Years before Toyota or anyone other than Landrover brought out diesel versions of their respective offerings I saw a picture of an early 70's Toyota FJ 40 happily crossing a creek with the driver, his Mrs and a couple of rug rats. The water was just lapping over the front of the bonnet.
I guess he must have taken a few simple precautions.

FollowupID: 830211

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 18:21

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 18:21
i think you missed the part where the water wasnt particulary deep - even a freelander just cruised through
it was maybe wheel hight
but as soon as the fan touched the water it was lights out for the petrol
FollowupID: 830217

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 21:39

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 21:39
My 2H is a vacuum feed, so it doesn't even need power to the fuel pump.
FollowupID: 830227

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 22:08

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 22:08
Tell me get outmore, which part about loosening the fan belt before the water crossing confused you?
Or put a screen of some sort in front of the grille?
Or spray a bit of water displacing fluid over the high tension electrics?
Now all of those simple precautions need to be done before undertaking a water crossing.
Unless you plan for a trip where the whole journey is going to be undertaken through 700 mm of water rather than just a short creek crossing.
Anyway, I'm out of here.

FollowupID: 830229

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 03:40

Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 03:40
pop as I said there was a line up of vehicles going through. for such a shallow crossing no one was doing any prep. no one had issues except the old petrol banger
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 15:10

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 15:10
Current vehicles are becoming increasingly complex - and part of the problem is most owners have little understanding of how the electronics in their vehicles actually operate - and how the electronic systems interact with each other.

There's definitely a lot to be said for simplicity - however, a vehicle with a moderate amount of electronics that are properly designed for protection and with robust construction is as reliable as an older vehicle with no electronics.
Many electronic failures are not terminal. ECU's all have limp-home modes that will allow you to drive to a repair centre, if the damage or the problem is not a major silicon-chip failure.

You will, very occasionally, suffer a total ECU failure. These are quite rare today.
Most electronic failures are created by single sensor failure, which is not terminal.
Early ECU's totally failed to operate if just one sensor failed. The engineers have got a bit smarter and the ECU can now generally determine reduced parameters for limited operation if one sensor fails.

Owners can help themselves a lot by learning how their vehicles systems operate and interact.
Then they can ensure they carry out regular maintenance to make sure problems don't develop via neglect.

In order of causing vehicle breakdowns and stoppages, this would be my reasonable estimation (below).
There are RAC and AA reports online that give extensive reporting on breakdowns in other countries, but Australian conditions and your own operating conditions will affect your vehicle differently.

1. Flat tyre. The biggest single % of vehicle stoppage. Carry two spares and learn how to fix flats. A square-cut length of 100x50 hardwood timber placed at right angles to the rim and close to the rim, then driven up on, makes a perfect and simple bead-breaker.

2. Flat battery. Not terminal if you have a 2nd battery, or a jump-start battery pack, or another vehicle. Can be terminal if the battery has suffered total collapse and the voltage falls below 7V, which is usually the cut-off voltage for electronics operation.

Increased levels of "on-board" electrical systems, such as entertainment systems, sat-nav systems and electrically-operated components such as steering, are placing an ever-increasing load on batteries.
Always buy the best battery with the best CCA rating and the longest warranty, that will fit in your battery tray.

3. Cooling system failure. By far the largest reason behind the above two reasons, for vehicle breakdown. The causes are usually neglect of the cooling system - a sure-fire recipe for early engine death.
If your head or block is aluminium alloy, then you need to be super-vigilant on cooling system maintenance.
Keep careful watch on hose condition - particularly heater hoses and any bypass hoses. Replace them as soon as they show signs of cracking when squeezed, or hardening.

Coolant - ensure your coolant has the correct level of factory-recommended inhibitor. DON'T buy "el-cheapo" inhibitors or ready-mixed coolant.
The risk is too great that the "el-cheapo" stuff is poor quality or doesn't have the specific additives required for your head and block.
For Toyotas, I buy the genuine Toyota inhibitor and mix it in the right proportions with rainwater or distilled water. I change the coolant out totally, every 3 years - religiously.

I've got a 13 yr old, alloy-head/cast-iron block Toyota that is still running on all original hoses and original radiator - and it has never had one single cooling-system component changed in 13 yrs.
That's all due to religious changing and checking of the coolant quality.
You could eat your dinner off the inside of the radiator and the head and block.

4. Oil problems. Engine sludge, leaks, and infrequent oil changes mean early engine death. Keep your engine bay washed down regularly and fix leaks as they appear, use top quality oil, and change engine oil frequently.
Don't forget that transmissions and diffs leak, too - so check them regularly. They don't hold much oil.
One BIL destroyed his Hilux transmission when he ran it out of oil due to a slow leak.

5. Electrics. It's not just electronics, but electrics overall, that rely on maintenance to keep operating. Connectors can become corroded if not adequately sealed, particularly those below about 600mm above ground level, where all the moisture and road grime accumulates. You can get a surprise sometimes, by just cleaning up headlight connectors, as to how much it improves headlight brightness. Keep earth straps clean and tight, and keep unsealed connectors and electronic components sealed with some CRC red urethane seal coat.

6. Accessories. You can have starter motor and alternator failures on anything. You can usually get around these fairly simply with manual transmissions and basic vehicles. However, with current automatic vehicles, you are now faced with no choice but immediate replacement, as they are usually unable to be tow-started.
Fortunately, starter motors of today provide pretty reliable performance and usually only fail after around 200-250,000kms of use.

7. Fuel. Fuel contamination is common when using drum fuel or travelling through remote areas. You can protect against fuel contamination by utilising plenty of filtering - both when refuelling, and by installation of additional fuel filtering on the vehicle. Water contamination is common, you must be alert to it.

The bottom line is, a 20 yr old high km vehicle that has not had every major component replaced, is not going to provide any more reliable motoring than a current model electronic vehicle with modest kms, that's kept in good condition.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 543227

Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:14

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:14
To my mind, the whole crux of this discussion is not so much about whether a new well maintained vehicle or an older well maintained vehicle is more likely to fail in a remote location. It's about the fact that either can fail. It's about when you encounter a failure, which is more suitable for a bit of bush surgery to get yourself going well enough to get back to help. With the new stuff you rely more on the maker getting it right in the first place.
See how well your "limp home mode' helps when a crank angle sensor decides to chuck in the towel.
I have been asked many times "what spares should I take apart from the obvious tyre repair stuff, hoses and fan belts"
My reply has often been "what part are you planning to have fail".
No idea where you can buy a box full of lateral thinking. (;=))


AnswerID: 543236

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:36

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 22:36
Pop - The few crank angle sensor failures I've seen - they were torn off by a stray piece of wire, or a stick flicked up by the wheels!
Physical damage to electronic components is potentially a larger problem than internal failures.

Admittedly, when a major electronic failure happens, you certainly do need to have a code reader available, and the service manual as well.
Then you have to source the failed electronic component - which is generally more fraught with danger than replacing an obviously-broken mechanical part.
Electronic parts are non-returnable, which is a major PIA if the supplier got the part wrong - and you've had to open it, to find out it was the wrong part!

However, I have to mention a bunch of friends who did the CSR in July 1989, with non-electronic Toyotas. Nearly all farmers, they equipped themselves with everything they reckoned they might need, including the kitchen sink.

They had welders, gas-axe, spare spring leaves, and dozens of spare parts - and the only part that broke was one tie-rod end - and guess which part it was, that they never had with them?!

So the group ended up stopped for two days, while one member made a dash into Newman, just to get a tie-rod end!

Cheers, Ron.
FollowupID: 830178

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 23:27

Sunday, Dec 21, 2014 at 23:27
To be honest I have seen a few CAS's fail but it's mainly been a broken wire or crook connection. Only remember one dying from external impact. As you said, finding which part of the system is causing the dramas without the necessary diagnostic tool and suitable software can be a bit of a hit and miss affair. When we encountered some punter who figured he could tell which sensor or whatever had died and wanted to give the old trial and error method a shot we made it very clear that whatever electronic component he bought, he owned. No returns.

Geezus, sounds like your mates could have set up a workshop on the CSR with all the gear they had...lol. I would have thought they could have done a temporary welding job to get themselves moving again.
Guess it depends where the offending bit broke.
The old story, take the kitchen sink and you need the laundry sink...lol

FollowupID: 830183

Reply By: madfisher - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 21:05

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 21:05
A very mild and much cheaper update would be to replace the 2f, with a 3f. 3fs had a shorter stroke and reved much more freely. add a set of extractors and a carby upgrade and bobs your uncle. Generally they gave about 10% better fuel economy then a 2f as well.
A fully rebuilt 3f with and engine balance and blue print will be a long lasting and durable engine and as its the same block should bolt straight up.
cheers Pete
AnswerID: 543269

Follow Up By: morto1701@gmail.com - Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 22:38

Monday, Dec 22, 2014 at 22:38
Thanks Pete
I will check it out, maybe a viable option.
FollowupID: 830230

Follow Up By: madfisher - Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 20:49

Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 20:49
And I should have added 3fs from 86 on where all unleaded.
Interesting years ago when I had a 2f fj40 I use to lust after a nice 60.
good luck pete
FollowupID: 830267

Reply By: get outmore - Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 14:23

Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 14:23
bottom line is with a wagon worth 6 tops.
The most cost efficient way to swap engines is to sell it and buy the wagon with the dont you want unless your doing all the work yourself.
These days unless it's a specific project your into swapping donks is a mugs game cost wise
AnswerID: 543297

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 14:27

Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 14:27
purely for reliability and comfort id take your 100 series any day over any other option youve put forward.
stuff the naysayers about computers... ive certainly never heard of a 100 series on a tilt truck through a computer gremlin.
seriously youve talked yourself into a 5th rate solution to cure an imaginary problem
FollowupID: 830261

Reply By: madfisher - Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 20:58

Tuesday, Dec 23, 2014 at 20:58
I work for a rental company for the last 8 years which normally run around 150 vehicles , in that time the only computer problem we had was when we sent and ex mine hiace bus to the detailers and they drowned it. Modern vehicles are incredibly reliable.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 543304

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