Cryovacing Fish

Submitted: Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 08:48
ThreadID: 110542 Views:4241 Replies:9 FollowUps:23
This Thread has been Archived
Hi
A friend is planning a fishing trip north in a few months and will hopefully be wanting to store fish for return home. He has a cryovac machine, 2kva honda generator and will be buying a Fridge Freezer, probably about 60 litre 12v, or possibly Chescold 3 way fridge freezer.
With this in mind we were discussing options for storing the fresh fish until his return home, a period of approximately 3 weeks. Has anyone used cryovacing to store fish in a fridge for this type of period. The possible plan is to catch fillet and cryovac fish and then place into refrigerator until return home in 3 weeks when it will be frozen.

Advise from readers who have done this or have a alternative suggestion would be much appreciated. The reason for refrigeration and not freezing while away is obviously to reduce power needs substantially.

regards Kc
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Jarse - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 09:25

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 09:25
I can't help you with refrigeration only, but I've had very good results cryovac->freeze.

The longest I've had fish frozen is about a month. I've had no noticeable deterioration in flavour at all.
AnswerID: 543440

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 10:12

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 10:12
In most jurisdictions there are bag and possession limits to stop what you propose, and with good reason.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA106 Motorhome.
AnswerID: 543443

Follow Up By: Kelpie D - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 10:53

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 10:53
That is right. One should read the rules carefully. You don't just get a slap on the wrist, fines can be in the tens of thousands and include jail. In your "possession" includes what you have at home, in the car, in your bucket, in your boat and anywhere else and not just what you caught that day.

As for vacuum packing, the general rule is double for fridge and quadruple for freeze. So fresh fish with a fridge life of about 4 days will be good for about 8 days if V.P. Frozen fish is good for about 6 months, so V.P and frozen will be good for about 2 years.
3
FollowupID: 830395

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 23:25

Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 23:25
Kelpie and why exact would frozen food have any kind of a limited lifespan?
if properly packaged to prevent physical spoilage the lifespan of frozen food is indefinite.
vaccume packaging pretty much eliminates physical spoilage a microbial spoilage at frozen temps doesnt occur so their is no actual frozen shelf life. thats an old wives tale
0
FollowupID: 830456

Follow Up By: Kelpie D - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 17:07

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 17:07
I was sort of hoping someone else might have jumped in. But looks like they don't care...and funnily enough, neither do I...!!!

Maybe you should keep the world a safer place and "stay inmore". If I am on your Christmas lunch invitation list, could you please remove me. I would not like to be killed by food poisoning, well ay least not by your food poisoning.

For everyone else (basically you people with at least half a brain). You should ignore "out there with the fairies". Vacuum packing or as one expert has stated "vaccume packaging" does not eliminate anything other than air. In fact it creates a perfect environment for things like clostridium botulinum bacterium, which can and will kill you !!! Freezing does not eliminate anything other than heat, which can and does make a perfect environment for things like clostridium botulinum bacterium.

I have stated above the general rules for shelf life, or fridge life and freezer life...There is also a golden rule when vacuum packing.

The golden rule - Never and that means NEVER vacuum pack garlic or mushroom. They both contain clostridium botulinum bacterium in lethal amounts. Don't panic, when cooked through, like in pasta sauce or a stew, all is good, you can VP away till your heart is content. In the open air, all is good too. Clostridium botulinum bacterium needs zero oxygen to multiply...just don't vacuum pack them and all is good.
0
FollowupID: 830474

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 17:51

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 17:51
sorry kelpie - your wrong
at freezing temperatures ie -18- to minus 25
bacterial spoilage cannot and will not occur
bacteriolgically the food will last indefinitally
however I have differenuated between physical spoilage which can occur such as freezer burn etc in improperally packaged foods

you are also incorrect in your statement that freezing only eliminates heat - it also eliminates water - ice is in a state that cannot be used by bacteria
whats more freezing while its not a prime use will actually KILL bacteria (some definitly no where near all) but frozen products will have less bacteria than they were frozen with
certainly ive eaten products frozen for over a decade and frequently products frozen 3-5 years .

you are correct with some of what you say regarding clostridium botulinum
0
FollowupID: 830478

Follow Up By: Kelpie D - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 19:27

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 19:27
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
0
FollowupID: 830492

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 19:53

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 19:53
I reeeely hope your kidding with those quals - besides my experience a basic internet search would have shown you im right.
and yes i also have foot technolgy qualifications but i was actually awake in class
also 10 years as a butcher where yes stuff could be frozen a long to very long time

Ok im going to do a very basic internet search seeing as you seem to think theres a remote possability you know what your talking about

here ya go
EXACTLY what ive been telling you - physical and bacterial spoilage
sheesh 2 seconds would have prevented you looking silly especially after you tried saying how qalified you were
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/UCM109315.pdf

"Because freezing 0° F (-18° C) keeps food safe indefinitely, the following recommended storage times are for quality only"
0
FollowupID: 830493

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 20:09

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 20:09
oh and to your other wrong statement that all freezing does is eliminate heat which i pulled you up on.... like i said a 2 second search would have prevented you looking silly
http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educators/competencies/general/spoilage/spg1.html
"Freezing - the freezing of foods changes water from liquid to solid form and renders it unavailable to microorganisms and chemical reactions.
"

i m not a troll all i did was try and correct the common misconception that food can only safely be frozen for certain lengths of time
the way food is packaged prior to freezing makes a big difference
suction packing goes a very long way to preventing any physical spoilage during freezing and as ive now corrected you :) bacterial spoilage Does not occur at proper freezing temps (-18 to minus 25 )
0
FollowupID: 830494

Follow Up By: Kelpie D - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 20:37

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 20:37
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
0
FollowupID: 830496

Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 09:25

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 09:25
no I already explained why the post didnt start out out as a fight - rather it was educational about packaging and freezing times
and no I also said what my experience and education in the field was

i merely suggested a quick search would have save you embarrasment by being found out as having no knowledge on the subject and making up fake claims about working for the food authority and CSIRO (if that had been true i wouldnt have had to correct you on those few very very basic errors of fact you tried putting forward)
- i didnt need to search that info - its common knowledge to me

I really hope youve learned something
0
FollowupID: 830510

Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 09:38

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 09:38
Any way just to sum up for people interested in knowing
if a product is stored and handled correctly prior to freezing and is defrosted in a correct manner
the time it has spend frozen will have no effect on the safety of the food to eat

and the better it has been packaged (suction packing is an excellent way to store meat prior to freezing)
the less physical deteriation will occur over extended freezing times (ie freezer burn)

suction packaged meats lifespan if kept correctly frozen would best be described as years rather than months
0
FollowupID: 830512

Follow Up By: Kelpie D - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:33

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:33
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
0
FollowupID: 830522

Follow Up By: Kelpie D - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:36

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:36
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
0
FollowupID: 830523

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 17:57

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 17:57
I read the news everyday, and to date, I haven't seen deaths from Botulism exceed the annual Australian Road Toll.

From that I'd say 99.999% of "fishos" must be doing something right, with the catching, storing and consumption of their catches.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 830537

Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 18:58

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 18:58
bob the biggest danger with botulism is the storage of cooked ready to eat food in oxygen deficient atmospheres .
Botulism spores readily survive normal cooking
this is why canned foods are not just cooked but cooked to a specific time/temperature sufficient to kill something like 110% of clostridium b spores.

this is why i always strongly recomend against suction packaging of cooked foods such as stews etc
with raw foods the issue is nowhere near as bad as the toxin itself is readily killed by cooking.

Botulism is pretty rare anyway as usually food will appear "off" anyhow
it is however treated with the utmost caution - as i said the whole canning industry is based around making sure cans are cooked to an extent theres no chance of it
due to the fact its one of if not the most toxic substance known to man

1
FollowupID: 830540

Follow Up By: Gramps - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 19:37

Wednesday, Dec 31, 2014 at 19:37
Well handled 'get outmore' and thanks for the info.
0
FollowupID: 830543

Reply By: tonysmc - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 11:07

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 11:07
I'm not suggesting they are doing anything wrong, nothing like fresh fish you have caught yourself, but make sure they are aware of the bag and possession limits. Fisheries can and will check what you have in your car and van and you will be prosecuted for not complying. This includes simple things like leaving skins on fish for identification. There seems to be a misconception that once you get the fish back to you van you are safe to stock whatever you want. It is illegal! Make sure your friend checks the fishing laws for the state he is going too and the ones travelling back through.
I know plenty have done it before, however so do fisheries, this is the reason they are cracking down on it more.

Cheers

Tony
AnswerID: 543446

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 12:52

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 12:52
We have been catching & filleting fish we have caught for some years now and once cryovaced and frozen they last for MONTHS similar to purchased fish that is frozen.

We only keep enough fish to stay within the bag limits for 2 people and that is plenty.
Then any excess that we catch is eaten the day of the catch.
Having said that we are inland fishers mostly, so the bag limits are a bit better than some other areas.

We have often spoke to fisheries inspectors and have never had a problem .
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 543452

Reply By: Drew - Karratha - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 13:55

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 13:55
I have recently started cryovacing fish when away on camping trips, but have a 57l engel Combi which can be used as a fridge and freezer, so it is always frozen ASAP. Fish caught on the last couple of days of a trip is cryovaced and then placed on ice until we get home. When going remote we use a solar panel to keep power to the engel, otherwise it is on 240v at caravan parks... In WA once fish is landed it can be filleted / chopped up / skinned / etc however you want to, and this is where the 20kg per person limit comes in... Even on trips that we have caught heaps of fish we have never gone over 1 persons limit (20kg of fillets is a LOT of fish!!). Make sure you check the regs for where you will be fishing and contact fisheries with anything you are unsure of - not believe what people say on forums....
AnswerID: 543453

Reply By: kcandco - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 14:31

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 14:31
Thanks Everyone for your replies. It looks like a week is about tops for keeping cryovaced fish in the fridge so I don't think that will be an option.

Also Thanks for mentioning the bag limits situation. I don't know if my friend (and no it's not me in case you were wondering) would be aware of this. Ignorance is no excuse but sometimes people just aren't in the know. That's why I love forums like this, advice from those who have been there done that.

regards Kc

AnswerID: 543456

Follow Up By: Bigfish - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 14:43

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 14:43
There have been quite a few who have lost their boats,cars and tackle. In your possession is exactly that. Except if in your home. Many locals also do not take kindly to the southern pillager. The fools that do break the rules makes it harder for gaining access to waters. Landowners wont let people through and even the aboriginals have been known to sort the tourist out! The NT fishery is well managed and relies on people doing the right thing. Catch and release is becoming very popular, except amongst the greedy ones. Limits are there to ensure the fishing lasts for a long time. If your mate has a big fresh feed everyday and brings a few fillets back he will remember it forever. Hope he gets some nice ones.
cheers
3
FollowupID: 830401

Follow Up By: Member - Scrubby (VIC) - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 15:14

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 15:14
G`day Bigfish,

Please tell me where I stand ??
Scenario -- Three vehicles, six blokes, all catches have been within the possession limit for each bloke, fish have been filleted with skin left on and then cryovaced.
I have an 80 ltr Trailblazer running at about -15c and all the fish is packed in it but the quantity it is far more than my possession limit.
So if the three vehicles are traveling together and pulled up by the "sheriff" but I have all the fish in mine....... ah ... guilty or not guilty.

Scrubby
I don`t know where i`m going but i`m enjoying the journey.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 830404

Follow Up By: Member - Scrubby (VIC) - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 15:31

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 15:31
Oh a bit more.
Same Scenario.
We caught these fish in Queensland,.. so do Qld reg`s apply?.... Yes.

We travel through NSW heading home, so do NSW reg`s apply?...?

" Many locals also do not take kindly to the southern pillagers."
We travel into Victoria nearly home, so do Vic. reg`s apply?....?

....... ah........ah.... booked three times....... Guilty .., Guilty..., Guilty your Honour.

Scrubby.
I don`t know where i`m going but i`m enjoying the journey.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 830405

Follow Up By: Bigfish - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 15:42

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 15:42
Gooday Scrubby. Not a 100% sure of qld regs. If it was me I would make sure that each bag had the owners name on them. Would also ensure that the cars traveled together as a group. If you got pulled over for a roadside search at least all anglers and fish would be accounted for. I reckon if you got pulled over and had say 30 fillets in your freezer with no mates to be seen..you,d be gone. It costs a lot of money to do these trips. I,ve done hundreds and dont bring anything home now. Cant blame people for taking some home though. Fill ya bellies up whilst camping and then bring your bag limit home. Dont know about the NSW/VIC barra limits but I dont think you,d have any problems with the legal size and limit you are transporting from Qld.

Maybe google qld fish regs or drop them an e-mail. If you just stick to the regs you,ll be laughing.
1
FollowupID: 830407

Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 10:45

Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 10:45
In WA

All of your fish (filleted or otherwise) is to be clearly labelled with the DATE, SPECIES, ANGLER (and preferably weight but the weight not essential)...doesn't matter if you are travelling or camped ...if its in you possession then LABEL it

If the "Sherriff" as you called them pulls you over and you are travelling together .......then you all pull over together....... and then the clearly labelled fish is identifiable to each individual and that angler can stand there with you and the inspector and claim ownership/liability......in that scenario all in one or more fridge/freezer there wont be a problem.........

In other words travelling in a CONVOY AS ABOVE...no issues

Camped together...same rules as above the angler/s needs to be present and be a "real person"

If you are hours apart or more then clearly you are not travelling together.....all the fish in your possession is yours....(your mates either miles behind or already in front /home)..... there is no other anglers with you..... and you will suffer the consequences

Simple and effective rules for "Fish for the Future"



Life is a journey, it is not how we fall down, it is how we get up.
VKS 1341

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 830429

Follow Up By: Drew - Karratha - Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:56

Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:56
In WA if you are below one persons possession limit you do not need to label each bag, just the esky / fridge etc that they are stored in. If more than one persons possession limit is stored in the one esky / fridge etc, then each bag requires a 75mm x 25mm label of the owners full name. There is no requirement for species, weight, date caught, etc. (p 34 - 35 of the 2014 rec fishing guide).
0
FollowupID: 830432

Reply By: Member - Scrubby (VIC) - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 14:55

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 14:55
G`day Kc,
Just be sure not to pack the fridge too tight, cold air must be able to circulate around the packs to maintain there required temperature.

Scrubby.
I don`t know where i`m going but i`m enjoying the journey.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 543457

Reply By: Member - johnat - Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 20:35

Sunday, Dec 28, 2014 at 20:35
Unless you have a commercial Vac Pack machine, I'd be careful about the keeping properties. The simple "benchtop" machines sold by such as Aldi do not get tghe required amount of vacuum in the bag, and the bags are sometimes not capable of retaining the level of vac needed to keep the food.

BTW, unless you are using a "Cryovac"(R) machine you should actually be using the term "Vacuum packed".
AnswerID: 543470

Reply By: Iza B - Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 07:08

Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 07:08
Fish does not seem to last well in the fridge more than one or two days, whether vacuum packed or just covered with cling wrap. If you want to bring some home, I suggest you fillet, wash fillet in sea water, shake excess water off, pat dry with paper towel, vacuum pack, and turbo freeze. The transition from fresh to frozen in the cold store should be as fast as possible, so I suggest only packing a couple of fillets a day. Saltwater barra freezes well but Trevs turn to mush while defrosting. Just suggesting you think about what species you might choose to bring home.

Mate who travels up that way a lot, puts a dry ice block in the fridge a couple of days before coming home, using the fridge as an esky, essentially. Feeds his face for the first couple of days then freezes his catch limit just before the trip home.

Want to echo the other warnings about keeping inside the catch limits. Fisheries officers up north have been known to have a drive around the Gray Nomad camps and note some rego numbers for further investigation. Multiple rigged rods on boats, large chest freezers on generators, lots of crab pots, are all indicators that someone might be intending to do the wrong thing.

Iza
AnswerID: 543476

Follow Up By: mike39 - Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 08:37

Monday, Dec 29, 2014 at 08:37
I also visit the gulf with 3 mates on extended fishing trips.
We do take 2 freezers, shelf type upright and a chest, both run 24/7 noisy gen. during the day, quiet one at night.
Homeward bound they are run via an inverter with the quiet gen. for the o/night camps. (6 day run for us)
Vacuum packed and sealed fillets are initially frozen on shelves then transferred to the chest.
Couple of points:
We have a very good book keeper who documents every packet of fish to be frozen so he can tell how many jew, barra ie fish with per person bag limits we have to go.
All fillets are left skin on and most important 2 fillets = 1 fish so don't cut a big fish into 4 fillets.
As well as min. size of fish there can be maximum lengths.
We have nearly always met inspectors somewhere, last one Barcaldine of all places.
Do the right thing and no one complains.
mike

0
FollowupID: 830420

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 20:45

Tuesday, Dec 30, 2014 at 20:45
Think there's still a couple of inspectors based in Longreach, Mike.

They've got a huge area to patrol, but are not adverse to a "little" aerial surveillance too, if they think there's some naughty work going along the Thomson, Diamantina or Georgina Rivers.

Have heard reputable tales of one bloke, running 6-8 nets in the waterhole at Old Cork. Dunno if they ever caught him, but he's leg up now so unlikely to offend again.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 830497

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)