Non Toyotas in the mines, how are they going

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:40
ThreadID: 110766 Views:3367 Replies:12 FollowUps:33
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Over the last couple of years I have read that various mines were trying out some of the other brands over their traditional Toyota fleets
I was just curious for any feedback on how they are holding up

This is not intended to be a brand beating thread

Cheers
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Reply By: Axle - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 14:40

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 14:40
Lol Alby, I'd say there all going very well, Because any non toyota brand that wasn't, would be broadcasted all over this place!


Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 544420

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 14:47

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 14:47
I was prompted to ask this question because of a post on another site relating to a Rio mine he is on and they are ditching all of another brand and replacing with Toyotas again as we're having too many gearbox and electrical issues
Was wondering if this was a trend or an isolated incident
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:41

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:41
Ably

They mostly buy Toyotas for a reason.
A bit more expensive but are generally more reliable than their counterparts.
As you may have noticed in your travels as soon as you head west there are Toyotas everywhere. I have heard the same as you about the other brands failing in the mines.

Cheers
AnswerID: 544422

Follow Up By: mike39 - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:51

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:51
The only problem I have heard about with the new Toyota v8 in mining operations is of corrosive water getting into the starter motor where it lives on the top rear of the V block valley.

Any problem with the starter motor involves at least 8hrs. to replace.
Words used were "bloody nightmare!"

Blokes on the road still complain about fuel/oil consumption compared to the previous td6.
This from WA operatives spoken to.
mike
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:57

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:57
I didn't realise Toyotas were making submarines now? West from here is the endian Ocean?
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:05

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:05
Mike,

I'd read on this site that the issue with the V8's starter motors had been solved, with a better drainage system.

But then this might relate to water only type situations, not the constant dust, and muddy liquids encountered in mining sites?

An acquaintance, who is a auto sparky in the Isa, first told me of this problem when the V8 first came out. Back then he was charging about $115/hr for labour, so with cost of new starter motor as well, it would be an expensive repair!

Bob
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: allein m - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:40

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:40
In loccol there is some posts reporting problems with the alternator position as well
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:45

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:45
That is right Bob, in 2011/2012 they started putting a breather extention pipe on the starter motor to sort the issue
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Follow Up By: Member - mark D18 - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 18:40

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 18:40
Hairy
I will "simplify" it for you
you need to Head south first

Cheers
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FollowupID: 831576

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:05

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:05
You'll still end up in the Indian Ocean........
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:56

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 15:56
Alby,

Probably 10-12 months ago, I saw a triple loaded with Mahindra utes, done up to mine specs, and heading west. To Cloncurry, the Isa or into the NT?

Not long after saw a similar load, this time well used Landcruisers heading east, all looking a bit sad, dirty and..........well used. :-)

Around the Isa and the 'Curry, it still seems to be the usual Hiluxs, Landcruisers and some of the medium sized trucks, in both single and dual cab. Mostly all with that yellow reflective tape.........

Haven't heard anymore of the "test" Rangers being used at Cannington, since RA departed EO.

Bob

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AnswerID: 544423

Follow Up By: allein m - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:44

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:44
I was reading a review in car sale the day and they are talking about a Ranger mine spec different steel rims extra heavy duty wiring loom for lights and such Xl or something like that

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/B377F658B734F172CA257CBD002641AC

I wonder how many they sold to the mines
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 17:13

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 17:13
Bob the Ranger was one in particular that I was interested to hear how they are going
The vibe on the Ranger forum suggests there are more niggling issues than what the Hilux has

I am not in the market to buy anything at the moment just curious. There was a lot of talk since the current shape Hilux and the 200 series that Toyota are not so tough and reliable anymore and were trading on their previous history and interested to see how their competition were fairing when doing the hard yards
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 18:04

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 18:04
Alby,
speaking to a friend who was adjusting a radio for me a couple of weeks back, I asked how the rangers were going where he works and his reply was and quote "I thought they were mad buying Rangers and putting them underground over 21/2 years ago but they have been very good with few problems and no major mechanical failures".

I see someone said the mines were going back to Toyotas but that is not evident in the central Qld coal fields.

Bob I think Mt Gordon are using Mahindras out your way and I know some properties around the Curry are using Great Walls.

Alby, be careful of forums as anyone can post what they like even if they haven't driven or owned a certain vehicle. If you look at the forum, just look at the long threads that appear and you will see any common faults or issues. some of the issues are because people haven't read their vehicle manual.

This is a new vehicle and they are getting the bugs out. Mine is early 2012 and has had no problems except one and the first thing they said was bring it in straight away and we will have a look. Problem sorted on the spot and a new bracket was ordered and will be fitted when it arrives. 40000K of towing over 2.5t and used off road as well and I think that is how the bracket probably cracked due to corrugations

Also I am not a brand name person. I will say it as I see it with no BS.



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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:58

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:58
Slow one yes I am very aware of how the forums work
None puts up a post they they used their vehicle today and it performed as expected but will soon let you know when it doesn't
You hear horror stories on all makes and models of you dig deep enough

I too am not brand loyal and have owned a number of different makes
available
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FollowupID: 831613

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:01

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:01
Well autocorrect really stuffed that post up for me, lucky there is an edit feature so that I can correct it lol

Anyway I am sure you can get the jist of what I meant
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 19:52

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 19:52
My Jeep made it home today! :-)
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:13

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:13
Micheael,
I can here it ticking from here, run. LOL.
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Reply By: allein m - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:38

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:38
I have been keeping my eyes on Pickles when the first of the GX mine or gov ones came on to be sold and what I have noticed is the ones I have seen GX 200 s most in the condition report say under body corrosion and some some case major corrosion

one the other day said engine bay filthy major under body corrosion and seats all in a filthy stained

Now I am not sure if these are mine but from the roll bars and other gear I would have to assume some are from mines

I am not sure what prices they went for but I asked some one about the cost of cleaning and all I was told is expensive
AnswerID: 544427

Follow Up By: allein m - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:47

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 16:47
1 Vehicle Body Stone Chips To Front End ,Various Minor Scratches ,Various Stone Chips Comment Only
3 Undercarriage Surface Corrosion Evident Comment Only
5 Windscreen (Front) Pitted Comment Only
10 Centre console Holes (7 Or More) Other
12 Cargo Bay Carpet/Mat Holes Other
13 Cargo Bay Lining Boards Scratched/Scraped Comment Only
14 Hood Lining Torn/Ripped/Holes Other
15 Carpet/Mat Mounting Holes In Floor Comment Only


this is 200GX from pickles
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FollowupID: 831565

Follow Up By: allein m - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 17:49

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 17:49
ok so pickles want s $59kto $63k for a vehicle that has spent 12 months in a mine .


.most are around 60,000k


ok question will the vehicle stil be covered under new car warranty most are 2/13 so that is still around 12 months new car warranty

$80,330.69 is drive away price so

you pay $63,000 for 2nd hand and spend x amount to get it clean and ready for the road with 1 year warranty

not sure if it is a good deal new gives much more security with 3 y warranty and less problems

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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 17:54

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 17:54
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I think I have read before that the mines negotiate a buy price without the standard consumer warranty
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Follow Up By: allein m - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 18:17

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 18:17
ok that is what I have heard before so when the vehicle is sold on there is no new car warranty

so you take a huge risk in buying a 2nd hand mine vehicle at $60k
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Reply By: OBJ - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 19:46

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 19:46
I have been told from a couple of guys who work in the mines up here in the Hunter Valley that the mines dropped Toyotas because of their minimal safety accessories. In short, they did not have the right number of airbags according to some OHS formula. Even a local Toyota admitted that to me when I was chatting to him about it. I don't have any info as to whether Toyota addressed the problem as this conversation was probably 18 months ago.
OBJ
AnswerID: 544433

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 00:42

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 00:42
Yes they did address the issue, the Hilux required the fitting of a lapsash centre belt to the dual cabs in lieu of a lap only belt and they had to do their crash testing again to have it reanalysed as a 5 star rating
The horse had bolted by then and the other manufacturers got to place some of there product on the mine sites
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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 19:47

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 19:47
W.A. minesites are still predominantly Toyota, although there are grumbles about the earlier model Toyotas being more robust and presenting with less problems.

Ford are pushing hard to get more Rangers onto W.A. minesites, but the new Ranger sales are still dominated by private buyers, shire councils and other general businesses.
The Ranger has made a slight dent in Hilux sales to the W.A. miners, but it's still a long way behind on mining sales.

The news articles always like to boom up that Rangers are decimating Hilux on the minesites, but it's not true - they lump all sales figures together to make it look like Hilux is losing lots of mining sales - but it's the private and council sales area is where the Hilux is lagging.

Ford Ranger hits Toyota Hilux where it hurts - news article

Vehicle purchases are driven by OHS, bean counters, and mining engineers - and the main driver today is how safe the vehicle is.
The big miners will now only buy vehicles with the highest crash-safety ratings.
So a lot of the cheaper vehicles will never get a look in, because their crash-safety ratings are poor.

Anyone who buys a used minesite vehicle is buying trouble.
Salt water is always used to water down minesite roads, as fresh water is always in short supply.
That salt water often contains some dreadful additional corrosive ingredients such as sulphur, iron, calcium, magnesium, and arsenic compounds that often highly acidic or highly alkaline.
Add in naturally corrosive chemicals in the soils used for haul roads and minesite roads, and you have the scene set for high maintenance levels and short vehicle life.

Cheers, Ron.

(former mining contractor and gold miner, with current mining industry contacts and knowledge)
AnswerID: 544434

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 19:49

Saturday, Jan 17, 2015 at 19:49
Meant to put, "MINESITE vehicle purchases are driven by OHS, bean counters, and mining engineers, etc ..."
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:03

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:03
I have personal experience of the corrosive nature of some minesite roads. When I worked at one iron ore mine as a contractor BHP gave me their worst old single cab ute Tojo as a general carry all do everything vehicle and I broke 2 right behind the cab. Chassis was fairly rotten after just a couple of years.
I just unbolted the tray body and dropped it onto the next heap of crap dragged out of the graveyard.
No doubt if I hadn't broken them they would have been sold at auction, tarted up and flogged off to some unsuspecting punter as "privately owned" by a little old man etc. :-)))
AlanH.

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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:12

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:12
Alan, too true - we had to stop at the mechanic in Lienster (great mechanic btw - very helpful) to get a few things fixed on 2 vehicles before we headed up the CSR. They had a number of fairly new 70 series in the workshop on lifts. While chatting we asked them what the 70's were in for and they said all were getting the sumps and underside bits replaced. Apparently corrosion was eating out all the underside, particularily the sumps. Happens on all makes of vehicles, around 20 - 30k they all need replacing.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:04

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:04
now heres something thats not commonly known , minesite vehicles arnt neccesserally purchased for reliability - rather how long they will last

it used to cost about 20k a year to keep an underground vehicle going - it would be far far more now.
they generally retire them when the chasis becomes too rusty - hence toyotas are the preffered choice as their casis are far superior to any others.
Corrosiveness in mines comes from 2 sources
- high salt ground water
- sulphides, most miines mine ore in suphide form and even if they dont sulphides are abundant (pyrite is an extremely common and well known suphide) and make sulphuric acid when mixed with water
I currently work in a fairly unique mine as it doesnt mine metals, has very low to non existant sulphides and has very fresh groundwater
the way the vehicles last is like nothing ive ever seen at any other minesite
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Reply By: The Landy - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 08:50

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 08:50
Whilst not necessarily an answer to the question posed, a comment I'd offer is that mines are "exceptional" places, put a vehicle of any brand into them and most are likely to develop problems over time.

Perhaps some more that others, and the problems may be different - but it is to be expected.

And similar to Ron's prior post, I think the type of vehicle is governed first and foremost by the OH&S requirements of the particular company, other considerations follow behind this.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 544459

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:08

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:08
Yes no doubt the purchase decision is made on safety best practice with vehicle suitability and reliability a side issue
The guys on the ground have to deal with what is issued as best they can
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Follow Up By: allein m - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:24

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:24
there was a documentary long time ago about life in the underground mine in Kalgoorlie and the mechanic was talking about a landrover 110 or before that that lasted a week in a mine before some thing major broke and it was towed to the surface never to return again.

did not last long enough to get a oil change
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:25

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:25
I've heard just that exact same story in several bars ...... so it must be true. :-)))
AlanH.
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:28

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:28
It's interesting to see that the prices on new Jap-built Prado and Landcruiser have suddenly been adjusted downwards by $4000-5000 - largely due to the Japanese FTA, according to Toyota Australia.
That will smart, for anyone who just bought a late model used Prado or Landcruiser, and who was using the old prices as a guide.
It's only the Jap-built vehicles that are affected, all the vehicles built elsewhere, such as Thailand, are unaffected.

New vehicle price drop for Landcruiser and Prado

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 544469

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:56

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:56
I remember about 15 years ago when there was a taxation ruling changed I think it was when the prices dropped closer to $30k overnight on fourbies, that has got to hurt for some

Porsche has a good pricing policy whereby they increase the retail price by at least a couple of % every year regardless of external circumstances and do not 'discount' but will 'negotiate a package'

They do this to protect their existing customer base and their resale values as they know many of their customers are long term repeat ones.
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Reply By: garrycol - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:58

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:58
I thought that the only reason Toyotas were being dropped was because the mines required all vehicles to have a 5 star ANCAP rating which the Toyotas used did not have and Toyota refused to upgrade their vehicles and let to Toyota to drop the commercial Landcruisers in a year or two.

So unless Toyota change their minds and upgrade the commercial cruisers to 5 star ANCAP then I understand they are history.

Garry
AnswerID: 544472

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 13:22

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 13:22
Gary they have upgraded the Hilux to 5 star which required minimal changes other than new accreditation
The 70 series got upgraded with ABS and there was talk they were adding side airbags to meet the standards but don't know if it is going to hapoen or not as there seems to be a lot more talk about Tacomas and Tundras potentially being replacements ??

I understand they have side stepped the 5 star compliance rating with the 70 by registering the vehicle under a different category
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 23:59

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 23:59
Left hand drive petrol v8's as an alternative ??
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FollowupID: 831726

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:28

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:28
70 series Toyotas are now rated as 3 Star ANCAP with the addition of airbags and ABS.
Mines are requiring 5 Star ANCAP for light vehicles.
Apparently the current 70 series can't be made to meet the 5 Star rating in its current form.

There was some discussion about them being registered as trucks to avoid the 5 Star requirements, don't know where this discussion ended up as yet.

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Reply By: allein m - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 13:17

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 13:17
Here in Broken Hill with both major mines all I see is CBH have mostly 2006 toyota standards and Perilya have a few Triton and Ford and I have seen a lot of patrol utes come from the underground section


in the case of the Patrols ute 4cyl most of them look like they have had a hard life underground the others seem to be surface service vehicles
AnswerID: 544474

Reply By: noggins - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 13:21

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 13:21
With any purchase of any fleet it's the bean counters that get the final say
Given a choice of vehicles that pass their OH&S and previous reliability, it then comes down to a selection of "package deal"
There is no GST or sales tax so the deal then comes down to the basic price from the dealer / factory.
Remember we're talking about a couple of hundred in a big concern here.

Then when the vehicle is sold on the auction houses get the best price going, remember that is judged by the poor suckers that had to pay all the GST and sales tax.

This works out (roughly ) they can buy a Yota for the price of a Great Wall and resell it later for the street value of the Yota, sometimes making a good profit , sometimes breaking even on costs.
But still reducing their fleet costs by doing it this way rather than buying a fleet and flogging it to death.

Many dealers that have late model Yotas and Rangers got them from the local shires fleet sales and many have been used a salary package deals and never did any actual hard work , with the exception of the occasional weekend jockey.

The mines ones are very similar but are evident by the underneath replacements and panel work done on them and get a lower price on the market ,and higher k'ms and if lucky, still get back what , or near, it cost them in the first place.

So yes it all comes back to the bean counters and special deals made with the builders of the vehicles.


z
AnswerID: 544475

Reply By: swampfox - Sunday, Feb 01, 2015 at 17:39

Sunday, Feb 01, 2015 at 17:39
HI
The mine I was working for purchased Nissian patrols
The biggest trap as with all things, cheap to buy but very very spendy, robbery on guenuine parts.
The manager never tried non guenuine or had his superiors setup a discount parts supply from OEM . Absolute Di** heads .
To solve this problem the decision was to go to CANNOT BELEIVE THIS
***Tractors by Kubota **** same outcome
The utes would do a ""complete""" front and rear end every 3mths
The tractors would need all things that moved every 3-6 mths [including diff housings and body parts ]
Over all repair bill the same

Approx cost for nissian parts is double that of a tojo [f/end complete]
[many parts on the nissians were unavailable non guenuine ]
Life span of an under ground ute 2 years then it was a rust bucket

Rust was caused by
humid underground condition
driving in constant wet conditions
finds or drilling muck very abrasive and high in corrosive minerals
vibration created bare metal where rust starts
use of artesian basin water laden with minerals to wash down after shift

swampfox
AnswerID: 545180

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, Feb 01, 2015 at 17:49

Sunday, Feb 01, 2015 at 17:49
That is interesting about the Nissan parts cost, would have thought they were reasonably comparable to a Tojo
As a comparison would the Cruisers have faired similarly in those conditions and required just as much maintenance but just cheaper for parts and availability ?
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FollowupID: 832712

Follow Up By: swampfox - Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 18:27

Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 18:27
Hi
Many Nissians are not supported well in the after market . The other point is Nissian models change regularly or have production line changes .Eg drag links/pitman arms etc etc that r different model to model or different when there r different wheel bases .
They can be $800-1200 each
The parts are far more available for a tojo
The nissians last as long as the landcriusers
The earlier patrols have a way better axle seal ,loacted by the diff centre rather than a pathetic outer axle seal like a tojam
Front end rebiuld for a patrol with major drag links double of the tojam
Parts r cheaper 4 the tojam

swampfox


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