Signing Nissan 4WD warranty worksheet before works start- what does it really me

Submitted: Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 16:34
ThreadID: 11484 Views:1442 Replies:10 FollowUps:4
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Signing Nissan 4WD warranty worksheet before works start- what does it really mean for me?

A few years ago I bought a new GU Patrol.
In the last few years a few things went wrong with the GU Patrol.
Each time the Accredited Nissan Workshop Manager inspected my vehicle
And got approval from Nissan Australia to carry these repairs under Nissan warranty.

This is where the problem starts.
My GU is booked for a time and date.
Few minutes before I hand over my 4WD keys to the Accredited Nissan Workshop Manager,
I am asked to sign a form.
The form has some incomprehensible jargon and code numbers.
Many times I asked to have a copy of my signed document and every time I am refused to have a copy of my signed document.
Instead I am given a copy of an invoice with Null Payment.

I thought I'd be entitled to have a copy of a document, which has my signature.
At the Accredited Nissan Workshop, the photocopier is in the same room but each time the same story.

I am refused to have a photocopy of the document I just signed.
I have been to different Accredited Nissan Workshops and they all do that.

I find this type of behavior very suspect.
I can NOT explain it, but it does NOT feel right.

Instead at the end of the repairs under warranty I am given an invoice with Null Payment.
But my signature has disappeared and never seen again.

I really want to keep track of what I am signing?
What are my legal rights?
How should I handle the situation?

Because I do NOT pay the Accredited Nissan Workshop, (Nissan Australia does) 40% of the time, the repair is unsatifactory and I have to bring back the GU again to fix the repair of the repair.
How do I stop that merry go around of repairing the fault of the fault?

I feel very much bullied when I give my signature and I do not receive a photocopy of what I sign.
This "tactic" from the Accredited Nissan Workshop is very unethical and suspect.

John
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Reply By: Rosco - Bris. - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 16:51

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 16:51
G'Day John

Can't speak for the Nissan setup but LRA have a similar arrangement. I've never worried about it unduly before but now you've got me thinking.

Regarding the unsatisfactory repairs, I had a similar problem with the air-con not being fixed the first time. On reading the handbook blurb I noted a clause where LRA ... (not the stealer) has a "Fix it first time" policy wherein if they don't and you notify them within 7 days, they are required to come to your address to pick up your vehicle and leave a courtesy vehicle for the time your vehicle is away.

Had occasion to apply that clause in the present situation ... boy oh boy did the stealer cough and splutter ..... perhaps a lesson well learnt for them ... we'll see.

Nothing similar with Nissan I suppose ??? Sure as hell gets their arse into gear.
AnswerID: 51596

Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 17:10

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 17:10
I have never had that problem.

Everything that I sign for, I get a copy of. My dealer doesn't even need to be asked, it just happens. For the record it's Suttons Holden at Arncliffe.

I'm of the view that anything that you sign, you are entitled to a copy of. Not sure what the legal stance is.
AnswerID: 51598

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 18:24

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 18:24
mmmmmmm Ford do the same thing although I havent asked for a copy, I will ask what I am signing next time.
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AnswerID: 51604

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 19:03

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 19:03
Many times I asked to have a copy of my signed document and every time I am refused to have a copy of my signed document.

Then dont sign it, get them to call Nissan Headoffice while you stand there and say Im not signing anything till I get the car back.. You could be signing ANYTHING.. If in doubt see a lawyer..
AnswerID: 51617

Reply By: Member - Raymond - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 19:13

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 19:13
Hi John
What you are signing for is to authorise the dealer to do the work which is listed on the sheet you sign and then when the vehicle is finished you are given an account with what work has been done, if all the work is under warranty as mine was today the invoice has a nil amount at the bottom. If you don't sign the dealer cannot do the work.
You may need to change dealers, so far all the warrantee items have been noticed by the dealer and fix the next time
Ray
AnswerID: 51619

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 20:09

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 20:09
Yes you are signing to authorize the work. Not all dealers require this.

If it has codes (rather than descriptions) and you do not understand what they mean and you still sign it then you are a fool.
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FollowupID: 313355

Reply By: Guy - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 20:01

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 20:01
The issue here is that I sign a document which "appears" to allow the accredited Nissan workshop to start work on a particular job.
But the problem comes to the crunch when I try to compare what I have been invoiced under warranty and what I signed.
If I am NOT allowed to keep a copy and even NOT be allowed to see what I signed , how do I know the items I am invoiced correspond to the items I signed for?
I can be overcharged very easely.
(even if the job is under warranty).
- Interesting answer from Rosco
- Interesting that Savvas is geeting a copy of what he signed
- Truckster, nice reply but this is NOT practical. - These accredited Nissan workshops I am dealing with will refuse to have a lawyer examining their papers. I am NOT allowed to take what I sign out of the office of the accredited Nissan workshop.
This is where the problem is.
-Raymond this is the theory but the practice is different.

If Nissan has a quota system against my name and I do believe they have bacause I expereinced difficulty passed a certain threshold.
The result of the accredited Nissan workshop "overcharging" makes harder for me to have warranty repairs done if the accredited Nissan workshop has inflated artificially my quota by passing his "workshop mistakes" onto Nissan warranty.

For example by claiming Nissan warranty repairs when actually the workshop mechanic made a technical mistake and damaged the car.
Which happened to me a few time.
Then the accredited Nissan workshop ask me to come back and I didn't sign an other form again.
Why NOT?
Instead of the accredited Nissan workshop being responsible for their errors then Nissan is being charged for faults which are produced by the mechanics of accredited Nissan workshop (and not manufacturing faults) and my quota is being reach quickly increased.

This is a fraud against me the user and against Nissan the company and I do get penalised as explained above.

John

AnswerID: 51628

Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 21:32

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 21:32
Interesting theory Johnno ... again I have no knowledge about your case, but I'll put forward a couple of events which happened to me in the past with different vehicles .. new and under warranty and serviced by the same stealer.

1. Main high tension lead from distributor to coil was left out of a retaining clip which allowed it to rub/abrade against a main front engine drive pulley.

2. Top left off brake master cylinder and only discovered by me some time later. No spillage but as we all no doubt know, brake fluid is hydroscopic?? ... takes on water.

Net result .... both errors corrected by the stealer without any documentation of any kind.

I think it's fair to say they should not all be tarred with the same brush ... notwithstanding they ALL charge like a wounded bull.

P.S. I'll still refer to them as the "stealer" LOL
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FollowupID: 313377

Reply By: Member - Raymond - Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 20:38

Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 at 20:38
Gee Burnie, sorry but I don't seem to have the problems you have, the dealer explains what work is to be done, it is writtenin plain English, I suppose I should cross examine him to what the part numbers mean. But no I am not an idiot, I just have a good dealer and no problems with them.
Ray
AnswerID: 51634

Reply By: fourstall2000 - Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 at 09:26

Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 at 09:26
Nissan are starting to worry me,having my 3.0 litre diesel replaced under out of warranty repair (under fourby previously reported on this site Jan). In was extremely pleased thast Nissan would support their product in such a way.
But when I tried to establish what caused the failure,the blinds came down in a big way.
I have seen countless enquires through the media and web sites trying to establish why these engines are failing,and what models , engine numbers are affected.
Nissan is apparently not prepared to carry out a recall or notify owners at risk,rather preferring to wait until they fail.
This is immoral in my opinion,in my case because Nissan cannot or will not asure me that the new engine is free of this mystery defect, what do I do wait for the next time?,or not go on remote trips?
Nissan are making big bucks with the x trail,and I can see the 3.0 litre being phased out,this leaving the 3.0 litre to depreciate rapidly because of the engines reputation, and the public not knowing which models are safe to buy.
Nissan has always had a good reputation,this is deteriorating in my belief-shame.
AnswerID: 51733

Follow Up By: David N. - Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 at 23:28

Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 at 23:28
Sorry, no offence, BUT
1. I know many people who have the early 3 litre Patrol, lots of k's, and who have never had an engine related problem. Nothing, zero, zilch. (nor many other problems either..) In fact I know nobody personally who HAS had major problems with the 3 litre. Do you really expect Nissan to fix engines that aren't broken.... get real.
2. The resale on the 3.0 litre Patrols is damn good. A friend bought a new one very recently because the 2nd hand ones were so expensive.
What makes you think they are about to phase out the 3.0 litre?? They sell dozens of them for every 4.2! IMHO nothing else comes close WRT performance/economy.
I have an old 4.2 which is bullet-proof, but if I was buying new tomorrow I'd probably go for a 3 litre- everybody I know who has one loves theirs!
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FollowupID: 313628

Reply By: Member - Andrew O - Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 at 13:13

Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 at 13:13
I've had cause to sign the same sheet for warranty work. I have a nasty habit of actually reading what I am signing - and on one particular instance, crossed out the clause that allowed the dealer to charge me for the work - I also had the dealer initial it to confirm it - done woth no problem.
I don't have a problem not having a copy - I do have a problem when people say "sign here its our standard form". My response - "If its your standard form then I shouldn't find any problem but I'd like to satisfy myself its OK". I'm not a lawyer, just read stuff and apply common sense to it.

AnswerID: 51748

Reply By: Guy - Thursday, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:21

Thursday, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:21
Thanks Rosco for your excellent information. I totally agree with you. Accredited Nissan Workshop has SERIOUS problems because legally they can stuff my car and they won't be responsible.

Andrew I like your style - I'll try that next time and report on this forum.

Event I wonder to which extent the "duty of care " would apply to Nissan users.

Especially in the middle of desert or the Tanaman track.

Some users never had a problem with Accredited Nissan Workshop, this is good.

But I know 2 people who had problems with their GU 3 liters.
One the front left shaft leaked oil and the other at 2000km the radiator hose had two pinholes, which created an overheating of the GU3.0.

But for a user like myself who expect the Accredited Nissan Workshop to do their job at 100% there is a serious problem.

40% rubbish job and 60% good work is NOT good enough specially when my car is going to go to the desert or very remote places.
The duty of care will apply.
This is not good enough to trust the result of a job on my vehicle to be only positive at 60%.
I am expecting 100%.

60% success rate is less than the Australian Army success rate in action in Iraq for their fleet vehicle under fire.

After all these discussion I decided to call the Office of Consumer Affairs in my State.

I learnt from the Office of Consumer Affairs:
1) The repair of a car or 4WD under warranty of vehicle is NOT covered by the Office of Consumer Affairs.
This is legally a private contract between the Accredited Nissan Workshop and myself.

I should see a lawyer about every "warranty claim I sign" because if suddenly Nissan refuse to pay "under Warranty",
I would be forced to pay because I signed this clause.
Nissan does refuse to pay if I add third party equipment ===>> like shokies, coils, engine enhancers, different brand of radiator coolant, different brand of oil etc.

2) Real-Estate Contracts, Sale of Motor vehicle are regulated contracts. So, the size of the lettering and the production of a legal copy is a requirement.
But under a private contract then the size of the lettering (even unreadable) becomes irrelevant.
There is no requirement on the part of the Accredited Nissan Workshop to give me a photocopy of document I signed.

Accredited Nissan Workshops have managed to get powerful again at the expense of the Nissan 4WD's users.
May be it is time to balance the power between 4WD users and the Accredited Nissan Workshop.

John
AnswerID: 51904

Follow Up By: angler - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 12:28

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 12:28
I remember my very first service at my local Landrover dealer for my new 1998 Turbo disco. The mechanic had made sure all squares were ticked and comments complated. I noted with some trepidation that the spark plugs were changed and points adjusted.
They were quite lucky that I had absolutely nothing go wrong in the next two years as I was ready for anything.
Incidently landrover australia has a two years warrany on paintwork whereas the rest of the world has a six year warranty.
(yes I did have a slight paint problem fixed by me for virtually NIL.)

I am still wondering about a replacement for poor towbar weight my disco. The 3.0 looks good BUT !!!!
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FollowupID: 315542

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