No propane BBQ - what now?

Hi all
One of my fun activities while 'vanning has been cooking outside on the propane-powered BBQ. Looks like 'them days is past'...after the recent problems with these units, I find that my BBQ is on the banned list and I don't feel comfortable using it anymore.
What are the current thoughts/advice about what to do now? Portable electric hotplate driven from my van's external powerpoint? Electric frypan ditto? Portable BBQ connected to refillable gas cylinder? What do you all think are the pros and cons of these options, and are there other options I should consider?
I feel grumpy about having to abandon my compact little propane-driven unit but equally, I don't want to blow up anybody!

HugoC
Canberra
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Reply By: Member - Allan L2 - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 17:47

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 17:47
Hugo,
The units that have been withdrawn from sale use a butane canister. Still lots of propane fuelled cooker- stoves- burners available that are safe and portable.
Cheers,
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:25

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:25
Hi

No expert on subject but get the impression the term "Butane Cooker" is a broad, generic term - the gas canisters (well at least some of them) actually contain a mix of butane/propane. A link provided in previous thread on this subject gives some detail ... Pickles's Gas Canister Test

The type of gas is actually irrelevant as far as I can figure - they all go BOOM if things go wrong. It's the basic design of the units that pump out the gas that is the problem.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: adriang - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:08

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:08
"The type of gas is actually irrelevant as far as I can figure - they all go BOOM if things go wrong. It's the basic design of the units that pump out the gas that is the problem."

Not necessarily correct. If the cylinder is vented either through a relief valve or some other means, then the cylinder will vent the excess pressure. If the cylinder was thrown in a fire, then it would be a spectacular flaming vent but it should not explode.

I have a 3 burner Coleman stove that uses a disposable propane vented cylinder which is held away from the heat source by about 150mm, or you can run it off a LPG cylinder with the supplied hose and or adaptor.

The cylinders are not cheap, range from $6.50 on special to $10, nor is the stove cheap but it is built to last.

While butane and propane have very similar burning properties the lower boiling point of propane at -42 deg C, compared to 0 deg C for butane make it a much better bet in the cold weather, unless you like sleeping with your butane cylinder in your sleeping bag to keep it warm.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:24

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:24
...? I also said " It's the basic design of the units that pump out the gas that is the problem" which is what you are saying in more detail. I am still not 100% sure it matters what type of gas is inside.. if you put a match to the gas it will burn and if the unit/canister is faulty you may get an explosion. I dont think the type of gas/gas mix normally within the canisters in question will define if the explosion takes place or not (under normal conditions) which was my point as some were being pedantic about is it a propane fueled cooker, is it butane fueled cooker , is it an isobutane fueled cooker ? Irrelevant - its a bloody gas fueled cooker :)

By jingoes this is turning into drama - OP just wants to know alternatives to the cookers that have rightly or wrongly been banned/temporarily banned (whatever) - only about two or three people have provided any options.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: adriang - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:59

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:59
It does matter what type of gas is inside the canister or cylinder because a propane or LPG cylinder, even the disposable ones are a proper pressure vessel with a pressure relief valve or vent, whereas a butane canister is generally a glorified fly spray can , except for the new CRV canisters which will vent.

I am glad you recognised the option that I presented to the OP, which, judging by your later posts is a similar platform to what you use.

I am sorry to be pendantic, as you put it about the type of gas but it is very relevant to this discussion.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 07:56

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 07:56
adriang, right here the type of gas is irrelevant. What is relevant is the type of cylinder. Your set-up is completely different so is of no interest here. The cylinders involved here are $10 a dozen and not your $10 eack.
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Follow Up By: adriang - Friday, Apr 10, 2015 at 18:17

Friday, Apr 10, 2015 at 18:17
Hi Nomadic Navara

You state, "Your set-up is completely different so is of no interest here". Correct me if I am wrong but the OP asked for alternatives to the Butane stoves using $10 a dozen fly spray can, non vented canisters, which combined with the type of stove and apparently incorrect use, can be and has proved to be fatal.

Quote from OP "What are the current thoughts/advice about what to do now? Portable electric hotplate driven from my van's external powerpoint? Electric frypan ditto? Portable BBQ connected to refillable gas cylinder? What do you all think are the pros and cons of these options, and are there other options I should consider?"

You also state "right here the type of gas is irrelevant. What is relevant is the type of cylinder." You are absolutely correct in stating that the type of cylinder is relevant but as the type of cylinder is dictated entirely by the type of gas then one would have to assume that the type of gas is entirely relevant also.

So maybe it is of no interest to you but I hope Hugo C (OP), may have found some interest in a direct answer to his question.

Cheers
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Reply By: Notso - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:15

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:15
I was in an "Old Wares" shop the other day and came across an original, unused Companion Gas two burner stove. Built in Back and Side Shields, built in toaster that just flips down over the burner and a aluminium hotplate that does the same. What a well designed unit, made in Australia, lord know what year? Now own it of course!
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:26

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:26
I remember them well, a great little stove. You won't find anything similar made in Australia now. It would be a pity to get it dirty, a collectors item would imagine .
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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:00

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:00
hi notso
i have one of those identical to your description orange in colour they were made early eighty's i bought my new and have now reverted to using it as i too have the butane single burner that has been placed on the banned list despite never having any problems with mine i don't fancy getting burnt or blown up either with gas cheers
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:54

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 18:54
Seriously Hugo April 1 was days ago.

First of all those little $15 units never were propane and today the cannisters hold Iso-butanne.

We had one blow up within a few meters of us once , but never put us off, and they are one of the safest ways to go, even taking into account the issues.

In the world of relative risk they are seriously way down the list and proper use limits that further.

If you want something to avoid they try the mains electric hotplate you refer to, and never ever ever consider a refillable gas cylinder !




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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:06

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:06
...and also feel free to stack the inside of your car with re-fillable petrol cans :)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: wholehog - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 21:15

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 21:15
good post Robin. However the panic merchants will be out now.

Please check the safety warnings issued between NSW and QLD.

..they are generally a safe cooker used appropriately.

NSW butane cooker

butane cooker QLD
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Follow Up By: wholehog - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 21:16

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 21:16
i buggered the NSW cooker link up..

NSW

try this one
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 21:42

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 21:42
Thanks WholeHog

While a senario can be presented in which those devices can go off there are fundamental reasons why they are safter than the 2 other options mentioned.

They are that the cannisters hold massively less fuel than your typical 9kg bottle and secondly the cannisters contain gas under lower pressure and in a much lighter construction container so that when they do go off the explosive forces are much lower - still having one go off in the tent next door does focus ones concentration.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 22:27

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 22:27
...what you say may possibly be true (from a "kaaaboom" point of view) but it is apparent that even the small so called "butane" (=isobutane (methylPROPANE :) cookers will cause serious injury (problem threshold reached).

I assume some continuous spate of bad incidences have resulted in the recall/ban of the gas burners.

Some people have 2x45kg lpg gas bottles attached to their houses..been the norm for decades (and decades)...not banned ..wonder why ? Quickfire risk assessment based on nothing more than "canister" size is meaningless/irrelevant in this case.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 23:02

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 23:02
So Robin, Being struck on a pedestrian crossing by a 10 passenger bus is so much safer than being struck by a 70 passenger bus??? C'mon, your 'fundamental' logic is, err, somewhat less than logical.

Having spent years working in the petrochemical, oil & gas industry I know the potential of fuel vapour explosion and I would not go near one of these stoves. The mere fact that they required a safety device in case of canister overheat attests to the unsoundness of their very concept.
Combine that with the market forces dictating the manufacturing quality and you have what can only be called a 'bomb' in your hands! As unfortunately some have learned.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 09:44

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 09:44
Is the problem negated if you use the CRV safety cans? They do not explode

Personally I think this whole debarcle is a load of rubbish to protect the stupid who have been using them incorrectly
There are millions of these things being used around the world and we still hear more about people dying from shark attacks than gas stoves.
There has also been a number of accidents with the backyard BBQ and LPG gas bottles so a bit of prospective is needed here.

They have not been banned, it is not illegal to use them. They have just been withdrawn from sale.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Apr 14, 2015 at 08:09

Tuesday, Apr 14, 2015 at 08:09
We will continue to use ours as long as we can purchase the cannisters. We turn it off as soon as practical and also unlock the cannister. Never leave it "loaded" unless actually in use. They leak if "loaded" and turned off.

Yes they do get hot, but I reckon that you would have to be a bit of a galah to cook on them using anything as big as a camp oven. That's like trying to pull a road train out of a bog with a beetle.

Reading above where omeone mentioned a mains powered electric cooker. That reminds me of a trip with the grandkids. After we got away from town the grandkids asked if we take an air conditioner. Of course we do, we answered, thinking the car has one. One sat quietly for a minute and said "You will need a bigger extension cord then" Love em don't you. And no we don't drive a jeep.
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Reply By: TomH - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:03

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:03
I used and have sitting in the shed a 2 burner gas stove together with a cast iron plate and a 2kg gas bottle. Its in Brisbane and its perfectly clean
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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:23

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:23
I have never had a problem with these butane cookers either but I remember when the first of the drop deck cookers came out and I thought then that they were pushing the envelope in modifying such a good design.

Drop deck cookers are the ones where the burner is below the top of the canister. Poor design in my opinion. Still, safe enough if you know the issues and take suitable precautions.

I have been playing with many types of gas since I began as an apprentice plumber in 1962 so no stranger to the potential dangers.

With the drop deck units it would be easy to overheat the canister especially if you were unaware of the issues. I have a drop deck and one of the original flat deck units and a flat deck double unit and I reckon they are a brilliant design.
Never go anywhere without at least one of them and usually I carry two of them.

What I do find in winter is that I often have to tip warm water onto the canister to warm them up to make the gas vapourise or they go out due to freezing.

Not sure about the drop deck unit but the double and single flat deck units are not on the banned list so I am sticking with them till advised otherwise by the authorities.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: philw - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:33

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:33
The Trangia spirit stoves are pretty handy and safe.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:46

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 19:46
Until you accidentally spill a spirit bottle alongside!! lol
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 22:53

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 22:53
Hi

Trangia do indeed have a good reputation but thinks it's more for those travelling light (e.g backpackers). Friend of mine had one and it worked fine..he has however now switch over to JetBoil. Still more for backpacking but nonetheless I have just purchased a JetBoil flash (Java) for quick coffees on the go (small gas bottles and much safer than those cheap "butane" cookers ":)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Monday, Apr 13, 2015 at 23:36

Monday, Apr 13, 2015 at 23:36
Some years ago a student on a camping trip in the Flinders Ranges was hospitalised after inhaling flames from a trangia which they had tried to refuel mid-cooking, not realising the unit was still alight.

Trangias are one of the most popular units on the market (taking into account historical use) but all cooking options have their issues.
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Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 23:03

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 23:03
Hi Hugo

Having recently seen a Coleman dual fuel kettle in use, I was most impressed.

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Reply By: The Explorer - Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 23:39

Monday, Apr 06, 2015 at 23:39
Hello Hugo

Firstly apologies for some sidetracked discussion on the butane/propane/whatever cooker subject - we are only human :)

OK back on track - no idea what every one else gets up to but I just use single burner, 2 or 3 burner stove (various makes) depending on plan when out bush using an lpg bottle (have a few Primus 340g, 2.5kg and some other standard (3'8" BSP-LH valve) 2kg/3kg versions). Also have that Jetboil unit I mentioned but that is mainly for hiking (that's what I told the wife anyway :).

Single burner is great for short trip where cooking up some snags and a coffee is the limit of the menu. Same as the "butane" cooker I assume.

There are numerous brands/models so very hard for anyone to be sure of providing best advice. If you head down this path maybe a small (2 or 3kg lpg bottle) and a single burner or maybe even a two burner stove would do the trick. Size of bottle/s you choose depends of how long until you can resupply and some economics as well.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:10

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:10
Yep. Something like this:
http://www.bunnings.com.au/gasmate-single-burner-portable-camping-stove_p3230551
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:30

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:30
Firstly for the OP, these haven't been banned from use, just from sale awaiting a possible redesign or 'fix', a fix for human stupidity mostly.
If people don't use the appropriate sized frypan, pot, or kettle, then they are asking to be a statistic.
There are enough warnings on the product and instructions.
As far as I am aware, there has been one known incident with these stoves in Australia.

They are very convenient for many people and shorter tips, where some of the cooking / hot water for cuppas isn't needed all that fast, or economical (one of the dearest gas options out there).

It's funny though that butane canisters are still able to be purchased, Bunnings state in a new article that "butane gas canisters that accompany the stoves were still for sale."
A bit like banning new sales of guns, but leaving the ammo available for purchase !!

Hugo, exactly what I use on 80% of trips, a 2 burner LPG stove, fold up type, great in the wind and so much faster that the canister iso butane single, double, or bbq type stoves that are withdrawn.

Sigmund, I also have one of these single burners that screw straight to the cylinders, use that for heating the shower water.

I usually take 2 x 2.0kg LPG bottles, which I find fit in nicely and give me some flexibility to use 2 LPG options at a time if needed.

Re Trangias and safety, the only real drama with them is when people (mostly school camp users) go to refill them thinking they are out of fuel, and there is that very faint metho glow still burning but hard to see in daylight.
Mostly this has been rectified now with good pre trip mentoring by teachers, but for a while there was a spate of kids getting burned refilling these stoves.
....They weren't banned at the time though....
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:47

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:47
Hello Greg,
Propane & Butane are two different gases. They have some very different properties particularly their respective boiling points & the vessel they are stored in. Propane (LPG) is stored under much higher pressure in a much heavier cylinder that is fitted with a pressure relief valve, unlike butane which is stored in a tin with no relief valve. The two different gases should not be confused with each other.
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:51

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 06:51
Should read "Tin canister with no relief valve".
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 11:03

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 11:03
Hello Alan

I am well aware that they are different gases. I was trying to point at that the use of the word "propane cooker" instead of "butane cooker" was sort of irrelevant to the discussion as they are just generic terms that dont have to be taken 100% literally especially when you consider that

1: the contents of many canisters (all?) is a mix of (iso) butane and propane, though I am lead to believe that isobutane generally makes up the bulk of the mix. No doubt these two gases are often stored separately, in different containers but not in the case of the cookers/canisters being discussed (and others - the canisters I use for my Jetboil are also a mix of isobutane and propane).

2: Isobutane is also referred to as methylpropane.

So are they propane cookers or butane cookers? Does it really matter? No. Just semantics.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Zippo - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 12:46

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 12:46
Les stated: "It's funny though that butane canisters are still able to be purchased, Bunnings state in a new article that "butane gas canisters that accompany the stoves were still for sale." A bit like banning new sales of guns, but leaving the ammo available for purchase !!"

Not at all strange. The existing stoves (guns) are still out there and legally in use, so consumables will remain in demand and therefore available.

Heaven help us if the nanny-state authorities try to cut off the consumables as a way of preventing use of the stoves, something they can't actually do directly.

Given the statistics - about four? recorded incidents in AU/NZ where there are an estimated 4 MILLION of these devices - and what appears to be misuse in each reported incident, I for one will keep using my one-burner device to boil the billy until they physically rip it from my frozen hands.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 13:29

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 13:29
"I for one will keep using my one-burner device to boil the billy until they physically rip it from my frozen hands."

For bloody sure Zippo, for weekenders or day trips, will still be my choice for convenience.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 14:51

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 14:51
Of course the gas cannisters are not only used in the stoves but other appliances as well so unless the cannisters themselves are faulty there would be no reason for them to be withdrawn from sale.

I have two Gasmate cookers that I have had for years and will continue to use them.

This time last year I bought a two burner/cannister version from Big W and it worked fine until late last year when one side started catching fire around the gas connection after it had been on for a while. The other side was fine.

After a couple of fires I decided to investigate further and found a small crack in the fitting that the cannister goes into. Not initially visible but when the cannister was locked in the crack opened up a little letting gas out. Not detectable by smell, sound or even a gas detector but after enough gas had escaped to make it over to the lit burner the gas would ignite - as the flame was near the top of the cannister I guess if were allowed to continue burn the canister would get hot and explode but as it was the gas was just burning off.

I though about lodging a safety complaint but for various reasons didn't and just threw the cooker out. On reflection maybe I should have.

So there were probably far more safety related incidents than have been reports.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 17:29

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 17:29
I'm sure there were more incidents than reported - that goes for pretty well everything.

Your case was a fault rather than a malfunction, and not something an approval process is ever going to address. The predominant reported cases were from misuse such as employing barbecue hotplates or oversize pans which cause excessive heat to be reflected back towards the canister and safety valve. The instructions with these items are fairly informative but I guess most users just ignore them (at their own peril).
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 17:59

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 17:59
Even if the instructions are read by the purchaser (husband?) they may not be passed on to the user (wifey?) who possibly has little comprehension of the potential for misuse. A well designed product should allow somewhat for the ignorance of the user. Whoever would consider that using a grill plate or larger than appropriate saucepan would cause the damn thing to blow up in your face?
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Zippo - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 18:19

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 18:19
Valid points. I guess that all people using an appliance should be familiar with the instructions, but that's only going to happen in an ideal world - and we don't have one of those.

We're relatively safe, having both done that bit (RTFM) and we don't actually cook on ours, just boil the billy.
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Reply By: get outmore - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 11:58

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 11:58
im willing to help you out here - so your not tempted to use your butane stave again im going to make the generous offer of recieving it off of you - postage paid buy you of course as im the one doing the favour :)

I chucked out a couple of manky old ones thingking id just replace thedm right at the wrong time :(
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 14:34

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 14:34
I did exactly the same thing, put aside two that I have had for about 4 years. Both were looking a bit tattered, but worked well and never a mishap. The two new ones I bought to replace them with are on the "Don't Use List".
I just had a look in the shed, and blow me down, the old ones that I had are on the list as well.

Cheers
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:27

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 16:27
Maybe some of you who are referring to "very few reported incidents" should carefully read the Fair Trading NSW bulletin referred to above here.
Their action was based on tests rather than the number of reported incidents.

Extracts from their statement were.....
"In 2014, tests on these cookers were conducted .... resulting in an 84% failure rate ... relating to the overpressure device more commonly referred to as the shut-off valve... There have been reported incidents across Australia and NSW. Some have resulted in injury ranging from scalding to serious burns. One incident involved a mother and her teenage son receiving burns after standing near a cooker when it exploded. The son sustained significant burning to his legs, requiring several operations and ongoing medical treatment....On MOST MODELS, it was also found that the part of the shut-off valve protrudes from the appliance allowing debris etc. to block this integral component from properly operating...."

84% failure rate of all cookers tested??? But they are convenient and cheap so many of you will proclaim them safe and continue to use them!!!! Just not near me please.


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Allan

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Follow Up By: Zippo - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:35

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:35
They don't set out in that linked article how they tested them, and for my 2c that's pivotal to the whole exercise.

What they DID say was "Fair Trading has been concerned about the safety of these appliances due to several incidents of explosions resulting in injury. However it appeared that misuse rather than non-compliance with the Australian Standards contributed to these explosions. "
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:47

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:47
It would be a fair assumption me thinks that whatever method they used to get a 84% failure rate is not the same method of how the general public use them
The incident rate with these units compared to how many have been sold is very low
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 22:02

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 22:02
No Alby, read the report carefully. No assumptions.

It said that it was..... "found the products’ shut-off and safety valves failed to operate once heat was dispersed over the butane gas cylinder."

They are saying that 84% tested failed to respond safely when the canister was subjected to excessive heat. And, unfortunately, this IS how some general public are using them!
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Allan

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 22:45

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 22:45
But 84% in public use are not failing - so the the test method is not representative of how they are actually used.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 22:54

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 22:54
You are not understanding it either Garrycol.
If the product use does result in overheating of the canister then there is an 84% likelihood that the safety shutoff device will not operate with the possibility of personal injury. Not good odds for a safety device!

It is the same as saying that in the event of a collision, 84% of vehicle safety bags will not work. Would you accept those odds in your vehicle?
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 07:33

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 07:33
Alan how long did it take you to get used to eating cold raw sausages ?
:)
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 08:44

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 08:44
Never touch 'em Alby.
I just slip down to Bunnings on a Saturday morning for "One with onion thanks"!
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Allan

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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 09:24

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 09:24
Hahaha

You need to get a bit more adventurous with your touring locations Alan.
Do the staff get annoyed with you pitching your tent in the carpark?
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 10:11

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 10:11
Allan - I understand perfectly.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 05:18

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 05:18
I just reread that article and this would explain the disparity between failures in the real world and their testing procedures outcome

"What is the background to this issue?
Fair Trading has been concerned about the safety of these appliances due to several incidents of explosions resulting in injury. However it appeared that misuse rather than non-compliance with the Australian Standards contributed to these explosions. In 2014, in light of these incidents, state regulators including Fair Trading worked with two of the gas certifying bodies to re-test these cookers. These tests found the appliances to be non-compliant to the Australian Standards. This resulted in the certifying bodies suspending the approval certifications in February 2015."
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Reply By: Member - eighty matey - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 20:53

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 20:53
Hi HugoC,

we carry two of these great little cookers. Our kitchen in the Landcruiser is setup to carry two of these.

While we were tripping around over Easter I was wondering what else we can use. We prefer to cook with a fire but sometimes there is no option except for a fuel stove.
We don't want to carry a large gas bottle in our vehicle and we have nowhere outside, with our Shippshape rooftop tent on top, to carry a bottle.

I'm going to keep using them as we have for over ten years. When it's impossible to use or I find something that fits us I'll change.

Steve.
AnswerID: 552124

Follow Up By: Stu & "Bob" - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:23

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:23
I have a series of Coleman "dual fuel" stoves. Use with Shellite only.
Just got an old army Choofa (sp?) going again....will be stored in an appropriate bit of PVC pipe to look after it a bit.

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Follow Up By: Member - eighty matey - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:28

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2015 at 21:28
I've got to measure the space we have built into our kitchen to carry our two "lunchbox style" burners.

After I've done that I will have a look around.

Steve
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Reply By: Member - Gnomey - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 08:00

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 08:00
G'day Folks
Hugo asked about a "propane" powered BBQ. People answered mostly about butane stoves. Hugo if you are in a van I don't see great hardship in getting a small LPG powered BBQ and bottle. I don't know the configuration of your current BBQ and how the gas canister fits into it. It might be safe for extended use or NOT. You mentioned it's on the "banned" list. Not a a good sign.

FWIW folks and to add to the confusion, some years ago when we bought a Baby Q in the UK as a gift for our hosts it a was fuelled by a canister and the LPG bottle hose fitting was an extra. The fuel? Propane.

Now, FWIW, my own take on butane canister stoves? I don't care much for disposable anythings and prefer not to use canisters headed for landfill or worse. Yes I own a butane single burner stove as a back up for a twin burner LPG stove. I've used it about 1.5 canisters worth of times in 4 years, including once to boil water to produce steam to clear the jets on my LPG stove (dirty gas fill I think) ie. the reason I bought it. And BTW the LPG stove is a Primus, vintage 1980 something so it might just have gas lines with accumulated crap in them.

For my $0.02 having the fuel can enclosed with the burner is not a very good idea. In this I agree with Allan. Convenient yes. Safe for people whose appreciation of how things work is limited or non existent? No. Folks like that (and there are lots of them about these days) would either not bother reading or not bother heeding, the warnings.

I intend keeping my butane stove and using it as little as possible. BTW I also still have several kero and shellite pressure lanterns and I'd guess plenty of people have lost a bit of hair from under-educated lighting procedure of these and the old kero pressure stoves. Just haven't used them for a while. And yes there is a big difference (of degree) between a kero flare up and igniting the contents of a butane canister - "safety" release or the whole shebang at once. :^)

Cheers
Mark

AnswerID: 552145

Follow Up By: Hugo C - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 09:40

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 09:40
Thanks for all the replies and follow-up...and apologies for the confusion caused by my loose use of the word 'propane'. After 30 years of working with hydrocarbons in my professional life, I should have known better....slip of the pen!

Let me clarify by saying that I'm using an Auscrown AD90 butane BBQ. This is now on the banned list and has had its certification (Certificate 5241) from the AGA withdrawn. It's one of the 84% that 'failed the test'. The NSW Fair Trading Authority's report makes fairly sobering reading.

I think I have all the feedback I need, folks. Thanks for the input.

Happy trails
HugoC
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 09:59

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2015 at 09:59

Northern Star, 6 Mar 2015 ---
"Just weeks after a Casino man died from burns to 100% of his body when a gas cooker exploded the Department of Fair Trading has banned the sale of butane cookers in NSW.
About 11.20am on Monday February 2, a 220 gram butane cylinder exploded ripping through a caravan and annexe at Casino's Glen Villa Resort.
After being airlifted to Royal Brisbane Hospital's burns unit, that night the decision was made to turn off 33-year-old Nathan Kliendienst's life support."
Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 552147

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 05:04

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 05:04
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/assets/mines-safety-health/PnG-SA-54.pdf
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FollowupID: 837765

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:59

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:59
Alby, is your link intended to relate to the incident above?
The Safety Alert was issued on 22 January 2013 however the accident was not until February 2, 2015.
Certainly the user may not have inverted the trivet but there is no statement of that being the cause.

The shortcoming that is the issue with all of these products is the proximity of the fuel canister to the source of heat being the burner. Contributing factors are incorrect operation and faulty safety devices, however the fundamental design invites accident. Safety should not be reliant on a warning sticker.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 13:21

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 13:21
No Alan I was aware it was unrelated incident
Just posted it as additional general info
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 14:09

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 14:09
Sorry Alby, I misunderstood.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: BunderDog - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:56

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:56
It appears that ACCC has started a recall on all effected units.
AnswerID: 552202

Follow Up By: BunderDog - Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:58

Thursday, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:58
Here is the link..................

Recall
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