upgrading towing capacity of 93 " 80 series

Submitted: Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:28
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I have a 93" , 80 series and my wife has rung toyota about upgrading it to an 3500 towing capacity , they told her that they will order a 3500 tow ball and fit it , and it will be able to tow 3500
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Reply By: deserter - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:31

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:31
Is it April 1 or May 1 today ?
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Follow Up By: Andrew k15 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:33

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:33
It is the 1st of may
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Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:39

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:39
With all due respect, I don't understand the purpose of the thread.

Hence the reply "Is it April 1 or May 1 today ?"
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Follow Up By: Andrew k15 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:46

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 11:46
I went to arb and asked the question about upgrading my 80 series to 3500 towing and they said because it's a 1993 model it can't be done , but I got home and my wife who rang toyota said if the change the tow ball it will be rated to tow 3500
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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:00

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:00
You obviously got someone at Toyota who has no idea.

The early 80 series had 2500kg capacity TOWBARS and so to get up rated, at the very least you would need a new towbar and possibly a re certification of the vehicle.

A towball wont make any difference as the ADR rule is as follows.

You may tow either the vehicles recommended capacity or the capacity of the TOWBAR WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER.

So if your vehicle is 3500kg rated but the towwbar is only 2500 Thats the limit. The towball is irrelevant

If the vehicle is only 2500kg rated and has a 3500kg towbar you can still only tow 2500kg Perhaps ask the question on www.lcool.org which is a dedicated Toyota forum. This has been discussed on there endlessly.
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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:02

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:02
On reflection the whole vehicle was only rated at 2500kg and was uprated in about 2006. However it was not made retrospective.
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Follow Up By: Andrew k15 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:03

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:03
The lady typed in our Vin number and it said it could be done and even spoke to her boss and even spoke to a tow specialist in perth
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:03

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:03
1990 to 1995 models only have a max 2500kg tow capacity, but the 1995 and newer models have a max 3500kg tow capacity.

As you have a 93 model increasing the tow bar capacity to 3500kg does not increase to the tow capacity of the vehicle so is still 2500kg.

Tow capacity of the vehicle is manufacturers tow capacity or tow bar capacity whichever is the lower - so you are still at 2500kg.

Toyota have not given you the full story and will be happy to sell you a 3500kg tow bar but it will not increase your tow capacity.

Garry
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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:03

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:03
not 2006 should say 1996

Check on Lcool
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:05

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:05
Looks like a lot of the same ideas at the same time.
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Follow Up By: Andrew k15 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:22

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:22
Thanks for all the input
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:36

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:36
For what it's worth I got the same run around from a couple of Toyota dealers and Toyota Australia when trying to get IN WRITING this same towing info re earlier Landcruisers.

The dealer, who probably either couldn't be bothered, or just wanted to sell a new vehicle, said the information was no longer available for that earlier model, but if I contact Toyota Australia they could help.

Contacted Toyota Aust. and I'm not sure if I got onto their tech support section or the head janitor. Anyway, similar response. He "thought" the info he gave was correct from memory but couldn't/wouldn't confirm in writing as officially the info he had didn't go back that far.

Now I have heard from unofficial sources much the same as has been laid out here. So I contacted our local Department of Transport and was told, once again, as has been said in previous posts, that either the vehicle manufacturers recommendation, or the rating of any component in the towing equipment is the figure that applies, WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER.

They also informed me that if the vehicle's towing capacity cannot be determined a figure of 1.5 times the TARE mass of the towing vehicle applies. I was also given the section in the regulations to down load.

Cheers
Pop

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Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:50

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 12:50
The Vehicle would have to be rebuilt to increase towing capacity to 3.5 ton and a 3.5 ton tow bar fitted.

I do not know about the rest of the people on this great forum but I'm sick of this stupid advise given to our members as this advise by the Dealer on this issue saying just fit a new towball.

These Bast**ds will kill this guys Family or mine one day .

I would be calling Toyota Head Office Demanding an explanation and total investigation into who told you this hopfully leading to their sacking.

May be worth contacting your local roads Authority and report it.

Advice like this will KILL someone.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 13:08

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 13:08
Aren't most common 50 mm tow balls rated at 3500 kg? Check yours and if it is not stamped with a weight on the top of it then replace it, an unstamped ball probably does not meet approved standards.

The ball on my tug is rated at 3500 kg but everything around it has a lower rating.
PeterD
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 14:55

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 14:55
i JUST LOVE this forum for those who treat peoples questions like a april fools joke... for those, they are the fool.
and for those WHO KNOW IT ALL.....soo called ARM CHAIR EXPERTS ON HERE...
which are a few and drag this forum into the gutter at times..
and actually don't know..

im sorry for those who actually make a good contribution to this site, that's why I keep coming back..
and I will defend and try to assist my fellow 4by aussie when I have something to offer

okay, down to business
this mod would require an enqineers cert..im guessing
as such I have kept this persons details for future references if I needed or someone else in future..

john Wilson in the Canberra/quenbeyen area... look up www.vehicleengineering.com.au/
sorry I don't have a phone number but this should be ample info to help you out..


have been told depending on which brand of towbar.. all that needs to be done is remove the 2500kg towbar rating and either weld or pop rivet a 3500kg onto it..
I used to make towbars at work.

you possibly might require a brake upgrade to get the 3500kg rating..
I know up until late 92 the 80 series had smaller brakes..
later models had larger brakes standard and that is all I know..
only speaking to an engineer and going from there,than hearing from idiots on a forum who say the vehicle needs a rebuild or cant be done..

moderators need to step up and remove stupid replies....people who treat a fair question... and tell them they are a fool and YET HAVE
made no contribution of any benefit to the actual thread.

have a nice weekend and hope you get onto john...

and yes the landcruiser lcool is a very very good site for info.
chews your time looking for an answer.
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Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 15:40

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 15:40
Remove the official tow bar rating plate of 2500 kg and simply attach one that says 3500 kg , REALLY ?.

Gee I thought rating plates actually meant something legally.

Yes , I also now believe Idiots and stupid replys need to removed.
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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 16:13

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 16:13
Yes there are some idiots arent there.
The vehicle was rated by the manufacturer for a reason and one of them was the smaller brakes etc.
To say you can just falsify the compliance plate is stupidity to say the least.
Also you chew your food, you chose your time.

Sentences start with a capital letter.
Have a nice day.
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 17:10

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 17:10
Amazing how people only read what they want to in a reply.....did you not noticed he wrote "depending on which brand of towbar", and also mentioned "you possibly might require a brake upgrade to get the 3500kg rating"?

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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 17:29

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 17:29
Yes I did and after reading about 20 pages about it on the LCool forum it appears it was able to be done about 5 years ago but may have been stopped in the recent past.

There is quite a bit more to it than just brakes and uprating the towbar.

Toyota dont want a bar of it (pardon the pun) and some engineers were doing it then. Maybe not now.
The one mentioned in the post was one of them.
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Follow Up By: wholehog - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 20:42

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 20:42
I'm with Tom on this one..the other uninformed clowns think its a 3500kg towbar/ball or a pimply faced spare Toyota parts sales boi approval to go from 2500kg to 3500 kg.
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 12:53

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 12:53
Like i said, people only read what they want to at times......lets just keep overlooking the fact he did mention "only speaking to an engineer and going from there", as being the way to go in his reply.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 14:37

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 14:37
An approved automotive engineer may be able to increase the tow rating and GCM.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome.
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Follow Up By: Member - TonyV - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 23:28

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 23:28
cannot upgrade GCM only GVM.
TonyV

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 14:00

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 14:00
Not so.
It depends on the vehicle.
I have had our OKA GVM upgraded from 5,500kg to 6,600kg and the GCM upgraded from 7,000kg to 9,000kg.
And ours is not the only one.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Reply By: Andrew k15 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 15:58

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 15:58
I'm actually talking with the auto approved roads government person at moment and checking all figures
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Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 17:32

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 17:32
good luck with it Andrew.
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Reply By: Whirlwinder - Friday, May 01, 2015 at 18:19

Friday, May 01, 2015 at 18:19
Andrew,
Regardless of what you have been told an 80 series diesel, evenwith an aftermarket turbo and 2.5" exhaust will only SAFELY tow 1.5 tonnes. Sure it will do it easily on the flat but give it a decent hill and it will struggle.
I have just bought a 76 series V8 to SAFELY tow a Kimberely Kamper after 17 years of our great 80 series.
If it is a petrol you will need a petrol tanker following you!
Good luck with you decision,
Ian
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Reply By: Member - TonyV - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 00:13

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 00:13
A heated debate.

My understanding from reading information in LCOOL and other places.

Pre 1999 each state had their own rules, ADR and computerisation brought this together from 1999, the may explain the vague and differing responses from Toyota and the states transport people.

The original 1990/92 80 only had a low GVM in 1993 this increased to around 2960kg
In 1996/7 the chassis was strengthened and the GVM stayed at 2960 with towing capability of 2500kg and a GVM of 5460kg.
In 1996/7 if you asked Toyota would replate your vehicle to 3500kg towing and 3180kg and GVM of 6680kg.

This was achievable because the 1996/97 chassis and brake changes was in preparation for the release of the 105 known at the 100 series.

So prior to 1996 it is not possible to upgrade the towing capacity of the 80 series without full engineering. The age means the chassis may be rusty or damaged, the brakes designed for asbestos pads now have non-asbestos pads that don't hold so well.

The capacityinfo is from Redbook, the GVM - GCM explanation is from Statewide 4x4 FAQ's
Does Increasing My GVM Also Increase My GCM Or My Towing Capacity?

No it does not. Unfortunately you cannot increase the overall GCM or the maximum towing capacity over the manufacturers specifications. By increasing the GVM of your vehicle it allows you to be smarter in the way you set up your vehicle and caravan/trailer.

If you are towing up to the maximum towing capacity at all times then a GVM Upgrade may not suit your needs, however this is not a very common scenario. If you tow less than your maximum towing capacity then it is very likely that you can benefit from having a GVM Upgrade.

FOR EXAMPLE:

200 Series Landcruiser:
•GVM 3300kg
•Max Towing Capacity: 3500kg
•GCM: 6800kg

If you were towing a 2800kg caravan with a ball weight of approx 280kg and your vehicle was loaded up to the maximum GVM of 3300kg (inc your ball weight)

GVM 3300kg + Caravan 2800kg = 6,100kg

As you can see you still have another 700kg before you reach the manufacturers maximum GCM of 6800kg. By having a GVM Upgrade fitted and increasing the GVM of the vehicle from 3300kg to 3800kg you can make use of another 500kg on the vehicle while still remaining compliant and roadworthy, also ensuring that you are covered by insurance should you have an accident.
TonyV

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Follow Up By: Member - TonyV - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 00:16

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 00:16
Oh to be able to edit..

In 1996/7 if you asked Toyota would replate your vehicle to 3500kg towing and 3180kg and GVM of 6680kg.

Should read In 1996/7 if you asked Toyota would replate your vehicle to 3500kg towing and 3180kg GVM and GCM of 6680kg.

(fat fingers)
TonyV

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Reply By: TomH - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:57

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:57
Wonder what the result of the phone call was.

Would be nice to know.
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Reply By: Loddo48 - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 11:10

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 11:10
Please check with you local vehicle engineer as two of my mates have just had their Toyota Prado's 120& 150 upgraded to gvm of 2990kg and tow rating upgraded to 3000kg . required the tow bar to be replaced with a bar rated at 3000 kg.
the 120 required the rear seats to be removed.
this is in NSW do not know about the other states
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Follow Up By: Member - TonyV - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 16:57

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 16:57
Loddo, totally agree that an engineer should be contacted.

The site I quoted from and pasted the URL works with a Certified Engineer instead of guessing.

"Our GVM kits are fully track tested in conjunction with a Certified Automotive Engineering Signatory to achieve maximum stability, braking performance, ADR (Australian Design Rules) conformity and operator comfort, before test data and documentation are forwarded to the DEPARTMENT of INFRASTRUCTURE, TRANSPORT, REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT and LOCAL GOVERNMENT for full analysis."

By the way the Prado 150 GVM is 2990kg as standard.
TonyV

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Reply By: Loddo48 - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 18:07

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 18:07
sorry the GVM on the prado 150 went from 2990kg to 3300 kg .
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Reply By: TomH - Tuesday, May 05, 2015 at 17:29

Tuesday, May 05, 2015 at 17:29
3 days and no reply from OP Must be still on the phone to RTA lo.l
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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 16:14

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 16:14
A week now and no reply We may never know the official answer to this question.

Would be nice if we did so all will know.
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