Sargent Group 4wd hire insolvency

Submitted: Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 06:43
ThreadID: 117691 Views:3453 Replies:7 FollowUps:31
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I understand that an administrator has been appointed for Sargent Group who are insolvent.

Check very carefully if you are hiring a 4wd and have / will placed a deposit.

You should check for yourself, but I know a very large customer of theirs has stopped using them until new terms can be worked out.

Looks like the end of the mining boom is starting to bite. Sargent has a very large fleet so there may be tons of 4wds about to hit the market. Lots of them will have been on mines too.
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Reply By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 07:34

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 07:34
Starting to bite? It's been chomping away vigorously for about 5 years here, ever since KRudd killed it by defining a super profit as 6%, but only if it were derived from mining, after which it is subject to another 40% tax. This meant an effective tax rate approaching 70%.

There has been virtually no capital raised for a new mining project around Kalgoorlie since 2010, where, typically prior to that there were 3 or 4 projects (ie new mines) a year coming on line, despite the gold price still being well north of $1200/oz for all that time and $1500 for most of it. Faced with that legislative uncertainty, why would anyone invest in a mining project in Australia?

Make no mistake, the mining boom didn't end by itself - it was killed off. And WE did it. The epitome of killing the goose that was laying the golden eggs. Expect many more of these businesses with heavy exposure to the mining industry collapses in the near future.
Paul B Kalgoorlie

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 09:51

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 09:51
70% tax??

LOL BHP is paying 0.002% tax by diverting profits to Singapore.

Out of $5.7Billion in profits diverted from Australia to Singapore, they paid the grand sum of $121,000 tax over 5 years.

I don't think we have much to do with their losses ... or profits.

Source, their annual report...

BHP's Singapore Sling.


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Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:02

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:02
Similarly with a few of the large manufacturing businesses in Kalgoorlie have resorted to fifo which is regarded by many as a cancer of rural towns.
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:51

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:51
Which just proves the point surely, Boobook. If you threaten 70% tax with or without consultation (this was without) you're going to drive investment offshore, and that's what's happened.

And Ian F, perhaps you'd like to tell us which "large manufacturing businesses in Kalgoorlie have resorted to fifo"? Five to ten years ago when there were massive skills shortages, all businesses, including my quite small ones, recruited employees wherever they could find them on just about any terms they could get them. If you want a job in Kalgoorlie now, you need to be resident in the Goldfields, unless you've got some very rare skill. About the only people regularly flying in & out of Kal to work these days are medical specialists.

But dream on, city folk, that you can take a baseball bat to our most competitive industry at just about every level and expect it to hang around employing people and propping up the national economy. Dream on comrades.
Paul B Kalgoorlie

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 11:50

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 11:50
Paul you are off with the pixies - the decline in mining exports are all to do with reducing demand overseas, the price and greedy miners not wanting to reduce production to suit overseas demand.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 12:22

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 12:22
Paul.

On the one hand you argue that mining was killed off by high taxes. But then when presented with the fact that BHP only pay 0.0002% tax on much of their profit DERIVED FROM AUSTRALIA, you argue that lower overseas tax regimes force the companies to move offshore.

Their Singapore office is about 10 accountants. The only thing they are mining there is the tax rate. The actual mining is here, and elsewhere where there is dirt.

It the demand and commodity price that is the problem. Don't you watch the news?

If they can't survive on $125K tax in 5 years then the problem ain't too much taxes.




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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 14:34

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 14:34
Ah well, we'll see who is right won't we. I'm just sorry our kids and grandkids who might have to subsist in a service economy that doesn't seem to think producing anything is important.

But best wishes all. At least we can agree to disagree without shooting each other in the streets, which seems to be the way in so many places.
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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 22:27

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 22:27
G'day Explorers

An interesting read indeed, I actually live in a so called mining town in the Pilbara and have done so for better than twenty five years, I've worked in the mining industry directly and also worked for the mining industry as a contractor, so I guess you could say that I've experienced both sides of life in the industry and as things go to this very day, nothing you are being fed by the media and the politicians comes anywhere near to how it really is.

Nothing can be further from the truth, no demise, no end in sight and no stopping the mining industry (the Beast) yes it has slowed down for sure the big boys of the industry have had an adjustment to their "profit" margins but believe me they have not and will not stop.

Just yesterday I travelled into and through a swathe of as yet un-mined country, but all the hallmarks of exploration and future development are in place.

The mid tier miners and the minnows in the mining industry have been belted into submission and so bloody what!! the big boys will swallow up these two dollar companies ~ when it suits them.

The only buggers crying poor are the GREEDY politicians who thought they would be bank rolled into the 25th century and the looser's who got sucked into the mega promises that came with the rise and rise of the "China syndrome".

If anything "Greed" and speculation has ended the politicians dreams of raking in the loot from multi national companies digging up Australia and flogging it off to who ever has the cash.

Something to ponder : The Roy Hill iron ore mining operations are still being developed, infrastructure is still being built, port facilities are being built for the shipment of ore to the world market(s) in later this year and this is Billions of dollars worth of infrastructure.

If it's all as bad as the pollies say and you think, why is Gina Rinehart and her consortium still pumping staggeringly huge amounts of money into an industry that is supposedly mortally wounded.

One for the Uranium mine lovers, the Kintyre uranium deposit on the northern boundaries of the Rudall River National Park is going ahead, the local, state and federal pollies are doing cart wheels and high five-ing themselves silly already, yet the Martu people at the Parnngurr Community situated just 80 k's from Kintyre are opposed to this mine and the potash mine already in operation on lake Disappointment.

Quote: Mr Jimmy Williams the deputy chairman of Parnngurr said there was no unanimous or majority decision from the Martu people for Kintyre to go ahead, despite what may have been suggested.

The Parnngurr Community has always opposed the Kintyre uranium mine......Our old people stopped uranium mining and we have to do the same, We don't want a mine at Kintyre or at Lake Disappointment, but they are not listening to us, he said.

Safe travels : Joe Fury




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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 12:57

Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 12:57
Don't know where you got your information Paul but even the initial proposal (the Resource Super Profits Tax) was only to be taxed at 40% of highest level of super profits. This was, unfortunately in my opinion, later watered down under the revamped MRRT by the lily-livered Gillard and Swan who also allowed big mining companies to bring forward their deductions so that they paid significantly less than they should have. Realpolitik maybe but at a huge cost to the nation as a whole.

The Henry tax review was the catalyst for the RSPT. It showed just how well big mining had done over the years, and that's without taking into account their propensity for offshoring profit to minimise tax. In 2001 mining companies paid 40% of their profits in royalties. Less than a decade later they were paying under 20%. Pretty obvious who was benefiting most out of the boom - and it wasn't the owners of the resources.

Even ignoring the philosophical argument about who should reap the rewards from the common wealth of mineral resources - especially in times of extra-ordinarily high prices - the MRRT had nothing at all to do with the return to "normal" conditions in the mining industry. In fact it was watered down and delayed for so long by multinational mining companies and the Abbott Opposition that it raised less than 10% of the expected revenue before its unwarranted demise.

Mining makes a significant contribution to the Australian economy but far less than many people think and far less than it ought thanks to our pathetic band of current politicians.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 14:26

Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 14:26
I do live in Kalgoorlie and have been through the gold downturn and worked at Keoghs with multiple company changeovers so I do know a little about fifo particularly with shutdowns.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, May 06, 2015 at 15:46

Wednesday, May 06, 2015 at 15:46
JF said .."...opposed to this mine and the potash mine already in operation on Lake Disappointment."

There is no "potash mine already in operation on Lake Disappointment"

Exploration/feasibility only at this stage AFAIK. May never happen.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Wednesday, May 06, 2015 at 16:09

Wednesday, May 06, 2015 at 16:09
JF says

How about that "no potash mine in operation and it may never happen" Choice eh.

Joe Fury.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, May 06, 2015 at 16:39

Wednesday, May 06, 2015 at 16:39
"potash mine already in operation" Choice eh :)

My point - There is no mine Joe.

Whether or not one should go ahead is another matter for discussion.

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: OBJ - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 07:56

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 07:56
That might make Fraser Island a little safer for us all, as it denies backpackers a source of transport in which to run amok :)
OBJ
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Reply By: MY D-mAx - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:22

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 10:22
http://www.dissolve.com.au/insolvency-news/insolvency-news-update-stl-holdings-pty-ltd-sale/#article-1

Which trades as Sargent Group
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 13:01

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 13:01
Its a bit off topic but we have developed a mining mining mining mentality! We have lost most of our manufacturing and concentrated on mining, service industry, selling off the farm, importing substandard food and cheap and nasty consumer goods... and so here we are today. The great nations have a good manufacturing base and that is the mainstay of their economy. We need to start smarter manufacturing in Australia again and be less reliant on other industries that are subject to world supply and demand. Michael
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Follow Up By: Kevin S - Life Member (QLD) - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 13:16

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 13:16
Michael, mining actually creates manufacturing opportunities but those opportunities go overseas if our cost structure is too high. It is costs, particularly labour costs, that have destroyed our manufacturing base. That and the high dollar that was influenced by our good terms of trade and a weak USD. Our national wealth comes form extracted and traded rural commodities. First Gold then wool. We will never create wealth behind closed borders.

Cheers, Kevin
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 13:21

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 13:21
Couldn't agree more Michael.

The good news is that there are lots of jobs at coffee shops. We can all server each other cappuccinos. A coffee shop shop led recovery.

Our costs are out of control and everything here is 50% to 200% more than other countries as a result.
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Follow Up By: Tim F3 - Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 17:48

Saturday, May 02, 2015 at 17:48
Kevin Australia lost its entire pipe coating and steel pipe production a couple of years ago. The only 2 pipe coaters in Aust left to set up overseas,that left no one to apply coatings to bare steel pipes produced in Aust ,effectivly killing that industry at the same time.

Now all oil,gas and water pipes are imported.....This partly supports your argument,as labour costs and a high $ were significant factors.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 11:02

Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 11:02
that's it Michael - or as one well known chap warned us 30 years ago "we've got to stop being the lucky country and start being the clever country". The media turned that into "oh look, we are the clever country" and most believed them.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 12:04

Sunday, May 03, 2015 at 12:04
As long as we keep chanting the
"I want it all, I want it now, I want it cheap, I want to do it on borrowed money, and I want a pay rise" mantra we will continue to turn the lucky, clever, privileged society that was Australia into just another banana republic as a certain pollie espoused a while back.

Maybe another province of the PRC??

If we had been buying an Australian made article instead of being seduced by the price tag many years ago, just maybe we wouldn't be looking at as many job losses as we now are.

Job losses in the mining sector, with particular emphasis on the exploration and new construction divisions, are a result of the demand for our product in overseas markets declining.
Australia had a reasonably healthy steel manufacturing industry many many years ago.
Why do you think that declined into a hobby shop???

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: GREG T11 - Tuesday, May 05, 2015 at 21:04

Tuesday, May 05, 2015 at 21:04
A very passionate subject that truly only has one solution, like or lump it our labour costs are the major factor . If you as a manufacturer of locally made goods were offered by an o/seas supplier to produce the same goods at a significant saving which not only included the benefits along with wages and holiday/sick leave no payroll tax, superannuation, rent or money tied up in equipment, the list goes on . Which way as a business owner would you go ?
The Australian market has proved they are happy to buy inferior crap from multinational companies that as their only saving grace is they are employing people who may have worked in a business obliterated by their predatory tactics .
This is across the board from grocery to hardware and anything else that has been able to be a create a reasonable living for a small/medium go getter . Making a decent living putting in 70 hour weeks in your moderate sized business whilst employing a few loyal FULL time workers and making a decent profit, envision the ability to expand in the near future through population growth ? Yes, and so does Bunnings and Co.
This analogy holds true across 99 % of industries, it's sad, it's actually a disgrace but apart from the tariff system abolished over the years that in reality planted the seeds we only have ourselves to blame . We want to pay as little as possible and to compete an Australian company has to pay someone peanuts to do it locally, are you going to be willing to do it ?
Vicious circle goes round and round and a hell of lot of small business has already fallen off .
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 07:20

Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 07:20
Greg, you are 100% spot on correct but you have left out the part where the local business is accused of ripping off its customers. It is the icing on the cake after all. Perhaps Aussie businesses could actually start making money again, by having no staff, no premises and drop shipping direct from China from sales off a website? Poor local business that actually has stock on hand is used by the consumer to inspect the product before buying it online cheaper....classic! Boom times for people in the parcel delivery business? Maybe, you can't farm out that part of the process yet.
Now, the other best thing we can do is sell off all essential services and profit making government utilities to private enterprise. Leave a note for the grand kids..."well, it seemed like a good idea at the time, my budget got balanced, how's yours going? What? Nothing left to sell?".
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Follow Up By: GREG T11 - Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 20:56

Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 20:56
The scary thing about all this is that there are people out there that seriously believe they are saving dollars buying online . I am not talking about the obvious pitfalls of no warranty back up, after all to get a refund or repair from some retailers these days is no longer just a matter of returning it to the point of purchase . Electrical goods are a prime example, in a lot of cases you have to take it/ship it to the official repairer for assessment which kind of defeats the purpose of buying it from your local retailer in the first place !
For the online buyers out there here is a little gem . This is cropping up more and more lately . A website is set up with products claimed to be on hand, quick turnaround all the usual spiel . This can be set up anywhere in Oz, all you need is a computer, An account with a freight co. and an account with a supplier desperate for sales . You don't touch the product, you don't see the product, the end user pays you straight away by C/card including freight costs, in fact you could do it on your Ipad while sitting at the pub .
I am serious here, it is happening . There are some downsides to this, once the goods are delivered the buyer realises they paid for something that they could have sourced locally for a couple of bucks more ( but you got your money and there are heaps of more suckers out there), and you have to rely on your source sending the correct goods in the first place ( I will be doing an experiment in the next week or two by having a blonde moment, I am looking forward to the outcome ) . These new age entrepreneurs then sell up for $25 - 75 grand and move on . Now that is classic.
I do not agree with this at ALL . However you can't blame them it is legal and at least a gst is still applicable somewhere in the transaction .


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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 10:17

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 10:17
I just bought a set of 8 shockers for the OKA.

Quoted price locally $208 each (+ freight from Melbourne to Adelaide if I wanted them in less than a month). I eventually haggled that to $176 each (+ freight).
This model shocker used to be made in Adelaide. Not sure if they are now or not, but there is still an operating plant here.

I eventually and reluctantly bought them from the US for US$27.05 each (plus freight). Delivery to the door was 6 working days.

Hello!!!!

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 11:07

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 11:07
Hello Peter,

That story isn't unusual by any means. However the crazy part is that the local guy is probably struggling to survive even charging those prices. Anyone running a business knows what I'm talking about. Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 12:35

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 12:35
I don't accept that.
They could import them for the same price ex USA as I did, or less if they purchased ex factory, but they are not "tuned in" or well enough organised to do that.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 13:17

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 13:17
I was talking with a high end suspension specialist recently and he said that his customers often source product from O/S cheaper than he can get it through the legitimate authorised Australian distributor before he even gets to put his own markup on it.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 13:19

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 13:19
Suspect that a lot has to do with us being a small country buying low volumes of product
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 14:51

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 14:51
I bought 8 shockers @ $27.05 each. The price for ONE was US29.50.
Anyone could buy at those prices.
How low a volume can you go.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 14:52

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 14:52
You are correct Alby. Anyone who hasn't had to deal with this crap doesn't believe it. They just think that the locals are greedy, but then wonder why all the businesses are closing down. I'm sitting here looking at my supplier list for computers. Wholesale price $747 to me (plus $20 freight), recommended retail $849, so there is less than $100 in it for me.....except there will be multiple places on the web selling the identical computer for $750. I must be a bad manager. The same computer in the US will be around $400 but you can't sell that here with the different power supply. Even if you could, the freight and exchange rate put it back up near the $700 mark. Every business I talk to is in the same boat.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 15:12

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 15:12
Things are changing.
Businesses need to change too. Those who do survive, those who don't disappear.
It has always been thus.
My father was a corner shop grocer. There are none of those in cities anymore. He knew it was happening and changed the way he did business to survive.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 16:34

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 16:34
Businesses are changing... they are closing. I thought that was what we were talking about and is the topic that started the thread. It would be good if there were new ones opening up. The mega big companies are gobbling everything up. The only defense is if the consumer cuts them out.

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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 11:06

Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 11:06
The problem with mining is the ridiculous rates of pay compared to real life needs , since when is a truck driver worth more per hr than a nurse /doctor ?
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 22:53

Thursday, May 07, 2015 at 22:53
How many truck drivers earning more than $1000 a day?
That's what a locum doctor can earn and nurses don't earn anything like a doctor.
GU RULES!!

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 08:20

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 08:20
The point was that truck drivers at mines get paid far too much in comparison to nurses…..
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, May 08, 2015 at 15:51

Friday, May 08, 2015 at 15:51
Whats that got to do with anything Alloy?

does a footballer deserve the pay they get compared to your doctors and nurses?
how about Hugh jackman? or other Actors \
and besides - what does a truckdriver get paid? do you know?

trust me its not the 200k a year people with no knowledge of mining often spout
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 17:24

Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 17:24
get outmore, , the point being that mining co's have brought the country as a whole to an unsustainable economic expectation , when a truck driver at an open cut mine gets paid more than a nurse who has a uni degree + extra study +management degrees + constantly upgrading skills + on call 24/7 for 19+ days straight is paid less than a year 10 dropout because he drives a truck for a mining co , why is Holden + Ford + soon Toyota giving up manufacturing in AUS ?? Because mining co's have set the bar for unskilled/ semi skilled labour far to high , why would a fella work at Ford Etc driving an internal truck if the "mines" offer 2+ times the dollars ?? Oh well he says " I want more money the same as the mines fellas get "
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