Landcruiser LSD FIX

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 10:09
ThreadID: 119403 Views:7032 Replies:2 FollowUps:5
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Hi all, I've finally worked out why landcruiser lsd are not up to our standards compared to patrols. After many attempts of messing around Ive used my mechanical background to finally crack the code, puzzle, mistery or lack of design from factory. The reason they just don't work is the order of the clutch pack themselves. No need to add or do anything to shims as that won't solve the problem. As said, it's the order they're in. So for all cruiser lovers here are my findings:- standard factory lsd clutch pack order are:- ring gear, fibre plate, steel plate, fibre plate, steel plate, fibre plate, steel plate, shim. The problem is there's not enough friction contact on ring gear having this set up. Here is what you want to do:- ring gear, STEEL plate, fibre plate, steel plate, steel plate, fibre plate, steel, fibre, shim. This is the best 3 fibre plate lsd clutch set up. Just like the famous patrols. No need to add or mess around with clutch packs, but note, you need to have a lot of mechanical knowledge to have a go at rebuilding this. Ille post up some pics soon, as ille be doing a mates lsd soon as well. One thing to note, is their is one critical measurement to do before, is measuring all clutch packs combined clamped together to see if the overall thickness is still within specs.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 12:24

Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 12:24
Gabriel,

May I ask how long, in mileage (kilometers) terms you have driven with the clutch pack elements arranged in this order?
The concern I would have is the longevity of the plates running steel to steel and a fibre plate against the shim.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 556690

Follow Up By: Gabriel K1 - Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 16:11

Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 16:11
Hi pop2jocem, glad you asked. Approx 70,000k's. No concern mate, as lsd works once friction is applied such as one wheel spins more than the other. Now we're only talking thou of an inch so in other words during normal driving the lsd is open and no friction is their. This applies to all lsd.. They lock up only when you have different wheel speed than the other. Remember it's not the steel that's the issue with poor working lsd but the lack of contact area. So factory set ups just don't work as their is only around 20% percent of fibre catching on side gear. Remember it's the side gear and first clutch plate that enables the bite. And the rest of the clutch pack follows. So by rearranging this to a steel greatly increases contact area.
Remember there is no friction their just only thou of an inch during normal driving. Adding clutch packs and making it tighter doesn't solve the contact surface area problem and will only fail after lots of money and effort as it is under constant friction and wears out. Lsd do not work under constant friction. They friction up only when one wheel spins faster than the other. I hope this helps and will post some pics soon on the lack of contact area on fibre to side gear.
Feel free for any further tech questions or advice!!
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FollowupID: 842957

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Jul 06, 2015 at 15:57

Monday, Jul 06, 2015 at 15:57
Gabriel,

Thanks for that explanation.

I replaced the rear diff center in my HZJ75 with an air locker many years ago but the original is still sitting somewhere on a shelf in my shed. When I get some time I will tear it down and have a bit of a play around with it.
I intended replacing the smaller front diff with a complete disc to disc housing ex an earlier HJ75 (2H engine) so that the diffs were the same front and rear and re-building the old rear LSD to fit in the front.
I know an air locker would be the ultimate but they need to be applied judiciously. I figure a working LSD might just be worth a shot.

As an old, now retired, diesel mech who fitted Detroit Lockers for a company I worked for many many years ago, I do know what the inside of a diff looks like.....LOL

Pics would be appreciated all the same.

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 842993

Reply By: Gronk - Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 18:21

Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 18:21
How is the "good" Patrol one configured ??

If you have done 70,000K's trouble free....and it works....why hasn't Toyota configured it this way ?? Surely they would have the brains to work out your way is better ??

There must be more to it ??
AnswerID: 556698

Follow Up By: Gabriel K1 - Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 20:05

Sunday, Jul 05, 2015 at 20:05
Hey Gronk, patrols lsd are configured slightly differently and this is when I realised when rebuilding my good mates gu h233 rear diff that the lsd clutch plates are the same as what I had learned. But one thing different on the patrols is that they have this big pinion housing that takes all the friction. Steel to steel, YES, then fibre and so on. So I was over the bloody moon about it. As to why cruisers failed to do this. Why you ask. Well who friggin knows mate. Why did patrols stop making 4.2 turbo diesels while Toyota are pumping out V8 turbo diesels. Dont give me emission laws crap excuse. Why don't cruisers hzj80 standard have rear barn door spare wheel holder. Why did patrols have front wheel shimmy. Why don't cruisers have the same driveline strength. Why do TB42 always overheat and cruisers petrol don't. Why why why I can't answer apart from cost cutting and or they both have good and bad points and engine/driveline design engineers should either be sacked or need a wake up call.. All I can say is, it works and some bloke on another forum Im on, from the U.S commented about it and he did the same thing with great results, only difference is that he didn't put a thread on the forum about it when he did the same thing. Seems like I'm not the only one brainstorming stuff.. Any how, each to their own. I only put a thread on the forum as one of my mates said to do so to help others out so better late than never I suppose..
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FollowupID: 842966

Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Jul 06, 2015 at 09:41

Monday, Jul 06, 2015 at 09:41
Not trying to be negative mate....and if it really works, it might make a lot of cruiser drivers happy.
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FollowupID: 842983

Follow Up By: Gabriel K1 - Monday, Jul 06, 2015 at 10:42

Monday, Jul 06, 2015 at 10:42
Hey Gronk, no negatives taken. Having had cruisers for a long time such as 45, 75, 80 as well as patrols Gq, Gu and landy series 2 ex army over the years I just get wound up with manufacturers.. maybe it's the way I wrote the thread that seems like I'm stepping on toes.. But yeah, I just can't understand how manufacturers can make something good or bad for this matter and not improve it..
The other thing I've been brainstorming is with the patrols front end shimmy. How they've made the upper and lower kingpin offset to suit other countries that drive on the opposite side of the road to compensate road camber. Well, that is not good enough as Nissan should of made the swivel hub assembly interchangeable with bolts rather than welded as one piece to diff housing. Not as strong maybe but that's to be disputed. Or at least make them to suit Aussie roads as each patrol is made for a particular country. Pathetic. Offset kingpin bearings are just a bandaid fix.
I know after my 2 patrols and thousands spent including pro axle offset kingpin bearings. One thing to note is that pajeros have a really good lsd as they too have the steel shim up against the side gear.. It's the force that lets them down so all they need is an extra shim as long as it's still within specs otherwise you won't be able to install spider gear pin if too tight. Another trick for those that don't go via the diff way is to get that handbrake working the way it should and once off-road and loosing traction from the lack of lsd or just hung up is to yank that handbrake hard and while in gear and throttle slowly, release handbrake slowly and always it ille get you out as what this does is clamps the rear wheels and provides torque to wheel that had limited traction. Works a treat providing handbrake is in perfect condition. I've pulled out many situations and even done a recovery this way up Cape York, but the lsd is the preferred option or a locker.
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FollowupID: 842985

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