TD42 surge (miss) under acceleration

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 01:53
ThreadID: 11964 Views:14365 Replies:8 FollowUps:10
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Hi all,

I have a 91 GQ SWB TD42 with 240000K's, regularly serviced and was TOLD that the injectors were serviced about 100000Km's ago, but no confirmation about the injectors.

I have an intermittent problem where the vehicle surges, actually feels more like a miss (fuel starve ??) whilst under acceleration, usually at around 3000 revs, then revs higher with no problems. It doesn't happen all the time, only when it wants to.

The vehicle blows no black smoke accelrating, just a light grey under heavy load. I have started using a fuel additive to combat water, replaced the fuel filter with no change.

The vehicle runs sweet up to 3000 revs, does not appear to lack power and on the times when it doesn't do it, revs right up to red line without drama. No one has been able to give any definate answer to my problems, so was curious if anyone else has suffered this annoyance?

Could it be a symptom of faulty injectors or pump??

Any suggestions would be appreciated, as i am 9 days away from heading into the Kimberley.

Thanx in advance..
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Reply By: Steve Mc - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 08:47

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 08:47
Hi Some of the older TD42s had a fine wire gauze filter under the banjo fitting on the pick up side of the fuel pump, which gets blocked with filter fluff after a period of time. Remove the banjo and have a fish around it is fitted deep inside from memory if you not are confident of doing this yourself take the car to a fuel pump specialist, Im sure you will find this is the problem.

Cheers Steve.
AnswerID: 53861

Follow Up By: Member - Ric- Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 10:33

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 10:33
Steve, u r right on, had the same problem 2 weeks ago, had me stumped for a while- changed fuel filter ... no difference, removed gauze filter on top of pump, and now it goes like a rocket. I now also put additives in fuel and in farm fuel tank, u could actually see a greenish tinge on the gauze...... regards Ric
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FollowupID: 315534

Follow Up By: shortgq - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:17

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:17
Thanx Steve,
Sorry, I should have mentioned i saw that whilst searching this topic a few weeks back. I had my mechanic check that banjo gauze and he reckons mine is actually missing, but I think I might look myself, having discovered this morning some of his previous 'handy work' and so called repairs, I am beginning to doubt his competency. i wish I could find a workshop I could trust 100%. God knows I pay a mean price for repairs, not bodge ups.. Thanx for the reply..
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FollowupID: 315549

Follow Up By: shortgq - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:57

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:57
Gents,

Just pulled the banjo off and low and behold, the mechanic didn't lie, i don't appear to have a gauze filter there. I had a look in and fished pretty deep, there appears to be a spring (on it's side around a tube) on the inside, but nothing else I can see. Any other advice out there?? and also, how do i get diesel residue off my keyboard??

Thanx for that suggestion though, that's one ruled out..
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FollowupID: 315551

Reply By: Member - Ric- Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 10:54

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 10:54
Shortgq, which way u heading up to Kimberleys, we are slowing plodding up that way via northwest coastal hwy in wa. leaving friday 16th .... ric
AnswerID: 53868

Follow Up By: shortgq - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:13

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:13
G'day Ric,

I am departing Sunday 18th (god willing) and am going up NW Coastal to Carnarvon, then going to cut across to Karajini, then up through Marble Bar - Derby - GRR - Mitchell etc. as long as the roads are open by then, if not will be staying on Sealed until roads open. Main Roads still have 1/2 of GRR closed.

I will be in a silver SWB GQ (Maverick), sya g'day if u see us.
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FollowupID: 315547

Reply By: CMB - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:38

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 15:38
Hi,

I own a 1999 GU with the 4.2 TD engine and have suffered the same kind of thing.

I have until recently kept the fine filter in place under the banjo fitting (find it by baring back a bit of fine electrical wire and bending the strands back to make up a small squid jigger).

Nissan had a heap of filters they had to sell that had felt in them to act as a water filter. This felt would always find its way into the pump filter. I don't use genuine filters anymore.

My diesel guru says that the Nissan fuel pump has very little "suck" and the missing is the pump trying to keep up when you accelerate. He says a cheap electric fuel pump is the answer. We use these pumps (about $100) on our tractors as they suffer the same kind of thing (bought about by making the fuel pass through big 2 micron filters - EUI injectors need very clean water free fuel).

Good luck.

Chris.
AnswerID: 53881

Follow Up By: shortgq - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 16:06

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 16:06
Interesting!!

With the little 'squid jigger' to remove the filter, it sounds like, from what you are saying, it's not possible to see the filter in the pump. i am wondering if I missed it. I had a look with a good light, and gently poked around with a small srewdriver, but didn't want to poke to hard as I have no idea what's inside. Should I have another look?? If it was a problem that needed an electric fuel pump, it should happen all the time, shouldn't it. i might just roll it down the street on fire...

cheers
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FollowupID: 315552

Reply By: CMB - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 16:36

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 16:36
The filter is super fine and only just fits in the hole left buy the banjo fitting (under a spring that goes in one way only - it has a smaller coil one end that rests on the filter).

I doubt very much you will see it with a light and suggest very strongly against a screwdriver. You don't want to damage it. The jigger ensures the spring and filter come out in one go and is not lost.

Electric fuel pump - the diesel guru says the problem is with the pressure difference that occurs under quick acceleration from one side of the pump to the other (something like that anyway). I have had my pump and injectors overhauled a few weeks ago and have not felt the "miss" but I have left the fine pump filter out as well - less restriction.

New fuel pumps don't seem to run with this filter anymore.

Don't light up without a permit.

Cheers.

Chris.
AnswerID: 53886

Follow Up By: shortgq - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 18:09

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 18:09
I still don't appear to have one, i can see a spring inside the pump, but it is on it's side and appears to be wrapped around a pipe running horizontally inside the pump. I hope that's not the spring, i don't think so as it appears to be well fixed and not rattling around loose. I can only guess that if there was a filter there, it is way deeper than the thread depth for the banjo bolt, as i can see a fair way inside, certainly past the most obvious area for a filter.

The bizarre thing is, I have put it back together, bled the system and it 'appears' to have cured it. I am wondering if there was maybe a touch of air in the system, could that cause it, or I poked my screwdriver through it the 1st time and now have great flow. Being an intermittent problem, it will no doubt return tommorow, just on the test run, it showed no signs of missing at all, that is unusual.

i hope I am looking in the right spot for the filter.

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FollowupID: 315559

Reply By: CMB - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 18:40

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 18:40
On the GU the banjo is a vertical affair on the front side of the fuel pump close to the engine block. The spring and the filter are obviously vertical as well..

I thought the GQ was the same (old work vehicles are GQ's) but they may well not be.

If in doubt, I can send you a digital pick.

PS: I am told that when diesel guru's work on these pumps, they usually don't put the filter back in as the newer ones did not even have one. Yours may be already removed.

The air could have had a lot to do with your problem.

Chris.
AnswerID: 53895

Follow Up By: shortgq - Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 20:41

Sunday, Apr 11, 2004 at 20:41
Chris,

My banjo is pretty much on top of the pump, very easy to get to, i hope I pulled the right thing off, I just followed the fuel line down to the pump and found a banjo, looks like it has a screw in the middle of it, yeah its the right bit - I hope!!

Maybe it was a bit of air in the system, I am not sure what the symptoms are for that, but I would expect the service people would bleed it properley, surely. They put the filter on, do the servicing, i will be amazed if it was something that simple, but i hope it is. I'll let it sit overnight and see how it runs tommorow.

if it s not too much trouble, I would appreciate a picture of your pump, too see how much different it is to the GU, that would be great. Email to
2bukoo@swiftdsl.com.au only if it is no trouble.

thanx for the input.
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FollowupID: 315578

Reply By: Steve Mc - Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 09:57

Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 09:57
Short gq I would work from the pump back, see how you go with the gauze if no luck check all hose clamps make sure they are tight and not sucking air and if you use a genuine filter make sure the water trap warning attachment( the grey thing with the wire and clear tube) on the bottom of the filter is screwed up tight & the o ring is seated right, same goes for o-rings on non genuine. While your at it blow a bit of compressed air back down the pick up line back into the tank remember to remove the filler cap. this might clear any obstacle that could be blocking flow of fuel. Its amazing the things that turn up in fuel tanks.Access to the tank is via the sender unit cover under the carpet in the rear in the SWB. Try all the above before venturing to the tank .All in all it doesn't take much to upset a diesel specially if its sucking air.

Cheers Steve
AnswerID: 53917

Follow Up By: shortgq - Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 11:48

Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 11:48
Thankyou for that. I will check the whole line.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 315595

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 21:01

Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 21:01
I would have the pump checked out by someone else apart from your usual bloke who you state doesnt always do the best work..

I would probably get the injectors done too, since your heading on a trip, and dont actually know if they have ever been done..

Check the fuel system for an air leak, using a piece of clear hose you could see if there are any bubbles in there.

Replace the rubber hose from tank to metal hose, and check the metal pipe for splits, or wet areas on it under the car.

Ive heard of people putting secondary pumps in the tank on Diesels to feed more juice to the engine but that was only on a few comp trucks that were really going hard.

The mesh is only on later models (if I remember correctly), mine 91 doesnt and never had it either.
AnswerID: 53958

Follow Up By: shortgq - Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 23:31

Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 23:31
Thanx Truckster,

I appear to have solved it, took it for a good run today and it hasn't come back, it sounds like maybe some air was in the system which is annoying as it was easy to fix. Annoying not because it was easy, because it has been a problem for a few months now and no one in the motor industry could cure it for me.. I never even thought of bleeding the system properly. Never assume a workshop will do the easy stuff..If it returns, i will try the clear hose and check everything through to the tank.

As for the injectors and pump, they will have to wait until I get back, I have thrown too much money at it in the last few weeks preparing it for this trip. I am happy they should be OK.

I will have to try and figure out who to take the vehicle to for the pump and injectors when I return. I just don't know what to do there. I go to one of the most reputable 4wd centres in my area, the majority of work is good, but i keep discovering small things that should have been picked up in basic service and also some work which had been fixed with thread tape and 'emergency' type repair which has really pi&&ed me off, as they know the vehicle is about to go away for some time. i will sort it out..

Anyway, thankyou for your input, the vehicle is running sweet now, I just want to get packed and head north.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 315631

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 13, 2004 at 21:44

Tuesday, Apr 13, 2004 at 21:44
As for the injectors and pump, they will have to wait until I get back, I have thrown too much money at it in the last few weeks preparing it for this trip. I am happy they should be OK.

Maybe worth gettin checked BEFORE you go, would suck bum to have the fuel pump go fluff in middle of nowhere. you would root the queen mum at that point in time to have spent the $$ on the fuel pump!!

enjoy the trip
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FollowupID: 315737

Reply By: Hankster - Wednesday, Apr 14, 2004 at 17:53

Wednesday, Apr 14, 2004 at 17:53
Hi guys... Your problem sounds a little bit different to mine but over the easter break I drove from home at Halls Creek down to Karratha. By the time I got there my 90 GQ would only do about 90kph and was surging quite badly at around 3000 revs. In the end I tracked the problem down to being air in the system. After bleeding it several times the problem would disappear but re-appear a short time later. Eventually I found that the air was getting sucked in at the fuel filter where the filter screws into the bleed pump housing. It turns out that the actual diaphram inside the bleed pumper has a small hole in it which allows the air to get sucked in to the system. I put an inline filter in it for the trip home bypassing the factory filter and will have to order a new bleed pump mechanism. My motor and fuel pump is all new so I knew it wouldn't be the problem your talking about. Maybe this will help someone else one day.

Regards Hank (GRR on 15/05 - white Mav LWB 3" lift kit and big tyres with an off road camper trailer, see you all there!!)
AnswerID: 54211

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