FRIDGES & WHAT MAKES EM GO ???

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 14:37
ThreadID: 12218 Views:2090 Replies:4 FollowUps:17
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Hi groovers,
OK this might sound a bit stupid but im struggling a bit with all of this (post 12199). i am buying a fridge waceo cf90 (yes Lucy is letting me). Now my questions are.
1. Do I run a deep cycle and a "normal" battery
2. Two deep cycle's ( as i have had sugested to me )
3. Two normal batteries (what are cold cranking amps)
4. Do i keep the cigarett socket or do i go for a 12v pin plug
5. What are the "fridge power" things ??
6. What would be the best way to set it up, bearing in mind that i am wanting to get my entire dual batt stystem redone cause at the moment it is @#$% and i dont understand it at all

i know this might sound even worse.but ive NFI when it comes to electrical stuff
thanks in advance guys all help is greatly apreciated

Rexy
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:04

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:04
Rexy,
Why is your existing DBatt system no good? What sort of vehicle?
Now to answer your questions as well as I can....
1&2&3) I run 2 "normal" batteries. The standard starting battery and an Exide Extreme for the aux. Deep cyclers are really designed for applications like running motorised wheelchairs and those trolley's the oldies tend to use etc. They need to be well re-charged and I don't believe an alternator has the ability to do a good enough job of that. CCA are the measure of how much cranking capacity a battery has at a certain temperature. Others will explain that better than me.
4) I wouldn't trust a standard-type of cigi plug. They have a bad habit of vibrating loose...the only thing holding them in place is the tension of the negative spring-loaded gizzmo on the side of the plug. Go for a positive fitting or hard-wired even better.
5) By "fridge power things" I'm guessing you mean the units like "THUMPER" etc which also double up as an emergency engine starter etc. I haven't had any 1st hand experience of these, but some blokes in our club use them for running lights etc and they seem pretty good, even if somewhat overpriced for the amount of "bang" you get out of them. EG: I think the biggest is around 56AH and costs around $500-. Compare that to a good starter battery of say 100AH for about $120- plus a few fittings. The advantage is that the Thumper etc are not wet cells and are safer to carry inside vehicle cab etc. You could opt for a Exide Orbital spiral cell battery but they're nearly $400- but would run rings around a Thumper.
6) As I've siad on previous posts, I believe in keeping things simple, but also being in control and in touch with what my vehicle is doing. For that reason, I don't like fuly automated systems that charge the starter batt first then automatically change over to charge aux batt. I prefer to have gauges and switches so I can control these things. However, I freely acknowledge that there are those among us who just don't want the hassle of having to remember to switch something on/off etc.
Let us know what's wrong with your current system please.
Cheers,
Roachie
AnswerID: 55144

Follow Up By: REXY - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:25

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:25
Roachie,
WOOHOO someone who actually understands "idiot" speak lol. thanks for that mate and yes i meant a thumper but i couldnt rmeber the name of them lol.
My currnet vehicle is a 93 td smuf mobile (dont hit me. as soon as i grow up im getting a 100's or a patrol).
the problem with my battery set up is : ok looking into the engine bay from the bullbar.
right hand side is starter motor, running straight to one batt. (cant think of the name off the top of my head but they are good ones). that is earthed to the chassie. possitive cable runs from that bat across the front of the radiator to the other one on the left side of the bay. the positve then runs to my engine fuse pannel then withthe negitive runs to the altenator. an auto electrician told me that in this configuration they are in series but im not sure.
My limited knowledge of electrical systems (mainly what i have read on here ) says to me that the "main" battery should be connected to both the starter motor and the altenator then a positive should run to the secondary batt via a selenoid. then any accessories i want i.e the fridge should be run from this battery through a fuez pannel through the fire wall then to the fridge ??????

hope i havnt got it all mixed around.

thanks again mate

rexy
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Follow Up By: Member - Gajm (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:40

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:40
Rexy, don't beat yourself up for asking a question, that's what this place is about. If you don't know something you ask, simple. There are really no dumb questions if you don't know the answer, the dumb thing is not asking in the first place. Not everyone on here knows everything there is to know about every subject....even tho one or two think they do lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:21

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:21
Rexy,
Your vehicle may have a factory-fitted dual batt where both batts are connected in series for starting purposes etc (same as 100 series cruisers I believe?).
Given that it's well out of warranty, I wouldn't hesitate to change things around. Like you said one batt should be connected to alternator and starter motor and fuse panel etc. The 2nd batt should be connected to the first via a solenoid and earthed to both engine and body/chassis. You would then attach a heavy cable from 2nd batt to a separate fuse panel (on the fire wall is where I keep mine), which in turn has wires going to radios etc. In the case of my fridge etc, I have a heavy cable going from the 2nd batt via a fusible link, down to the cargo area to run the fridge.
No worries. BTW, as I'm not an auto electrician, don't take everything I say as gospel, JMHO and how I have done things myself.
Just sounds like you need to fiddle about with some new cables and a solenoid with switch etc.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Roachie
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:27

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:27
Geez Rexy, ya doing well mate picking that all up. You almost know as much as Roachie!! hahahaha. Series and parallel work like this:
2 identical 12 volt 50 AH batteries being used (50AH [amphour] means you can drag 1 amp (A) for 50 hrs or 10 for 5 hrs etc, simple maths) in SERIES the volts add together i.e you would effectively have a 24v 50AH setup. In PARALLEL the amps add so you would have a 12v 100AH setup.

Some vehicles use 2 batteries in parallel like a 80 series Cruiser. These are not a dual battery setup like outback travellers need, merely a way of getting more AH from a 12 v setup. If yours is like this then you may have to fit two new batteries and get a bit of re-wiring done. This would then be setup like you mention above. Roachie is spot on with all he says above methinx, although I would go with REDARC isolator instead of his solution to No6 above.

Hope this assists
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Follow Up By: Davoe - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:29

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:29
Are Hilux surfs 24volt like most imports ? if they are I think it would create additional problems with setting up a true duel battery circuit
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:50

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:50
That'd explain the batteries in series
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:01

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:01
Davoe,
"Are Hilux surfs 24volt like most imports ?"
What the hell are you talking about?
I've never heard of any import being 24v. It's not a friggin bus, it's a hilux.
Read my reply to Rexy if you actually want to know some fact.

Sorry if I seem rude, but what the....
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Follow Up By: DiesAl - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:43

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:43
Roachie, this may sound like a dumb question but whats the diff between a fusible link and a fuse and why do you use this as opposed to a fuse for your fridge??
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Follow Up By: rolande- Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:44

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:44
Roachie,
Sorry to butt in and change subject, but I am just fitting a dual battery system to my GU. I have looked at the firewall to position the fuse box from the aux' battery, up high under the bonnett, in front of the passenger . My alternative was to fabricate a bracket to go on the aux battery tray. Question: Did you fasten to the firewall with self-tappers or use something else - thinking about vibration down the track. Do you find heat under the bonnet affects the plastic of the fuse box at all?(seems close to the turbo). What type of fuse box did you fit, (I have a piranha, but would buy another if it was better).
thanks
Rolande
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 09:29

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 09:29
G'day DiesAl,
Now I'm getting out of my depth. My Auto Elec installed 2 fusible links off my aux batt when we installed the system...(he did the "hard" stuff; I did the easier job of installing the brake controller under dash, wiring driving lights/shuroo etc). So I'm not sure what the benefit of a fusible link is other than to say (I think) it can handle larger currents than say a 40amp fuse. In my case, the 2 fusible links lead to the back of the truck using around 10mm cable. One goes to the cargo bay to run fridge, maxair compressor and a couple of general purpose outlets.
The other leads to the NARVA 12 pin trailer socket. The lower 5 pins on this socket are heavy duty.....the 2nd fusible link goes to the C/T's battery for onboard charging.

G'day Rolande
I've used one of those Pirahna fuse boxes. I think they come in 6,8 & 10 fuse configurations; mine is only a 6. I've mounted it on the firewall above the turbo, close to the bonnet. No problems with heat etc, and mine has gotten pretty hot at times. I used one of the existing captive nuts on the firewall with a 10mm bolt and then attached the other end with a self-tapper (you could also use a pop rivet if you wanted to). I run 6mm cable from the +ve on aux batt to the fuse box. I drilled out the small holes in the male protruding lugs along one side of the fuse box, bared off the appropriate amount of insulation and then fed the twisted cable through the 6 lugs and soldered each one, then covered it with a piece of that magic split tubing.
The 6 fuses go to UHF, cigi socket in dash board in front of transfer case lever, twine shower pump, air horns solenoid, rear/reversing lights and mobile phone kit.......so no great power requirements there. In the case of the cigi socket, I've piggy-backed another cable up onto the dash to another cigi outlet on "A" pillar to power Garmin Etrex.
Hope this helps.
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Follow Up By: rolande- Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 19:51

Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 19:51
Roachie,
Thanks, will look for the captive nut you mentioned
Rolande
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Reply By: The Publican - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:02

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:02
The question you really need to ask yourself first and foremost, do you really honestly need a 90 litre fridge.
1) Yes
2) No, that suggestion is foolish, unless you are going to run 2 x deepcycles connected to a proper battery charging system.
3) Why do you think a cranking battery is going to work as a deep cycle? Why do you think they make many different types of battery?
4) Only dummies use cigarette lighter plugs above 2 amps.
5) Absolute rip-offs and complete waste of money.
6) A Redarc battery isolater with a 90Ah deep cycle battery and a GMC850 generator from Bunnings for $198. A 90 litre fridge takes a *substantial amount* of power and a 90Ah battery will generally not last 12 hours on a Waeco.
Once you go over 50 litres or even up to a 68 litre with a BD35 compressor, but once you step up to a Danfoss BD50F compressor you need a decent battery setup to keep it going. When we talk decent battery setup we are talking decent money.
You cannot actually buy a decent batter setup, it needs to be done by somebody that knows what they are doing
AnswerID: 55160

Follow Up By: ThePublican - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:47

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:47
G/day Ozi /Phillis /William.
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Follow Up By: The Publican - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 18:55

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 18:55
Ah ha, the uneducated runt of society rears it puss head again.
Look little failed wonker go back and get your mum to change your diaper. Then get your mum to sit down with the book to teach you Abc for your basic English lessons. Must be a bummmmer been one of the uneducated kook of the Internet. What is your address so I can send a psychiatrist or councillor around to see you.
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FollowupID: 317168

Follow Up By: TheUndertaker - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 20:04

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 20:04
The Publican,, should you ever be actually game,,come and see me in the RUM JUNGLE,,we will see who needs a lesson,
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FollowupID: 317182

Follow Up By: -OzyGuy- - Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 22:35

Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 22:35
Do you need a 90 lt fridge...?
have you used a 90 lt fridge before...they are big

Generataors are not permitted in 'National Parks'.

If you read the installation sheet that comes with a Redarc Isolator you will see that it clearly states that both batteries must be identical, NOT a Deep Cycle (Amp/Hr) a Cranking (CCA) battery.
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FollowupID: 317457

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:53

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:53
Mate your ok, no need to panic! Your Smurf has two fairly small sized batterys, hooked up as one big battery.
ie You flatten one, you faltten both. They do last a long time while hooked up like this though. Putting an isolater between the two batteries is a very easy and cheap process, you just need to choose what kind you want. I used a Jaycar build it yourself type kit, but sounds like you may need to purchase a ready made jobby and just put it into the car. Basically if your surf is a 3.0l td, your passenger side battery will become your starter as it has all the big FO cables that go to the glow plug relay and starter motor, that cable that goes along the top of the raditor links the second battery on the drivers side. The main fuse box joins up with that cable and connects to the second battery.
What you do is simply take the cables off the positive terminal of the second battery, buy a battery lead from super crap autos or some place similar, put a bolt through the ends of the two cables and connect it to your isolator. Then tape them up with plenty of insulation tape and cable tie them out of the road. Then get another battery cable from the for mentioned place and hook it from the isolater to the battery. All done. there might be some other wires for voltage detection etc that need to be done but that's the basics.
The other thing you will probally need to do then is get a bigger starter battery as the little one will do the job but won't last long, especially through winter. A NZZ70 (landcruiser size) battery will fit perfectly in place of the smaller factory one.
If you want photo's or any more detail of how I did it let me know, also I use a Hella 16amp plug for my fridge, bloody brilliant, clicks in nice and tight, doesn't melt like some cig plgus do, and it has an adaptor so I can plug it into a normal cig plug in another vehicle for some reason.
AnswerID: 55168

Follow Up By: Davoe - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:44

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:44
Just got off the surf owners forum under faq looking at duel battery set up and you are correct. I have only looked under the bonnet of a few imports and they were all 2 battery set ups and i was told it is because they are 24volt so it pays to not believe all you are told but that is what the question mark in my followup was for - I wasnt sure
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FollowupID: 316875

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 18:08

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 18:08
Actually Daveo I want to appologise for sounding a bit grisley before, hard week already and it's only Tuesday!!! ;-)
When it comes to imports the people who know about them are the owners...

And you know what the owners know? They know that they are just like any other car on the road!
Have a good one Davoe!
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FollowupID: 316884

Reply By: REXY - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 07:52

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 07:52
Thank alot for your help guys, i really apriciate it. in answer to the majority of questions,

I am going to get an auto elecy to help me set it up. but as a few of you have pointed out, i as told by an auto leky that surfs were 24 v. hense i went "oh crap".
and aftwer that opinion i started doing a bit of home work and you would be suprised how many people think that smurf mobiles are 24v. Im going to give it a go myself., cause at least then i can learn something more about my truck and B4 i actually crank it up ill get a mobile auto lekky to come over and checkit out to make sure that i am not about to frag everything out
once again guys

thanks alot

Rexy
AnswerID: 55253

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