Quote "even toyota fans admit there's nothing tougher stem to stern..."

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:12
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4wd monthly claimed this of the GU Patrol in their 2004 yearbook edition. This is a powerful comment that I have heard before, and as I'm in the market for a used vehicle of this kind would like to know if its a fair comment or not. I don't want to start an emotive war here...I would like some factual feedback if possible.
Thanks to all.
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Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:40

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 15:40
Horse you will probably start a debate as usual with no conclusive ending and buy a nissan if thats all you can afford as it is better than none at all, BUT make sure it has 6 PONIES under the front boot. Personally I prefer toyota quality. Just my thoughts

Cheers Pesty
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:15

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:15
I like nissans, they keep the toyota resale high........8-)

I dont think anyone can question the quality, r&d, resale value of the toyota, or the rugged old nissan drivetrain, but Toyota doesnt give cars away [as one post here claims] and they are the top seller, even though they are dearer, and that cant be because everyone is silly enough to spend more. And you cant count fleet buys when the top selling toyota is a 120 series, which mining companies etc dont use, like 100/78/78 series which didnt sell as many as the 120 did last year.[and the 120 was on the market 3 less months, and sold nearly double the 100 and the patrol]

All you have to do is drive the 2 of them to see the cheaper vehicle saves the amount it is cheaper, in R & D and NVH, but the nissan needs something going for it, so they market it on price.
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Follow Up By: flashnick - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:18

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:18
One has to ask why Landcruiser Mountain Park has selected Nissan Patrols as its recovery vehicles ??
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:57

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:57
I heard it was a local dealer/ sponsorship issue.
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Follow Up By: flashnick - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 21:07

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 21:07
Shhhhh Go_Offroad --- dont make it sound any worse - Toyota used to sponsor them - Nissan certainly dont sponsor them - not with a name Like Landcruiser Mtn Park - you certainly heard wrong - I spoke to them - they said the Patrols do what they needed them to do - something about the front diff in the Toyota ??
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 22:44

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 22:44
Ahh, if you read other posts here, you will see the front diff is an easy fix ;-)
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 16:56

Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 16:56
"I've just spent $70-80 K on a new 4WD, and now another $1000 for a front locker to fix a problem that shouldn't exist when operating within the reasonable expectations of the capacity of the vehicle?...."

More money than sense.........

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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 17:31

Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 17:31
Only if you were silly enough not to take the factory $900 twin locker option, but of course if you didnt have the lockers, and were using the vehicle in terrain requiring them, would you still expect warranty?
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Reply By: craig - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:16

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:16
My next 4wd will be a Patrol. Tough is what I need.
Patrol loving Landcruiser owner.

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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:42

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:42
G'day The Horse,
Bloke, I know a fair few Tojo owners and not one of them would be game to admit that a Patrol is as good as (or better than) their precious vehicle......G'day Pesty!!
However, there are 2 blokes (at least) in our 4x4 club who now own a Patrol after having got rid of their respective 80 series cruisers.
I'd be the 1st to acknowledge that Nissan's sales pitch has been pitiful over the years and you could be forgiven for allowing yourself to be led to believe that Toyota is the only way to go.......they spend soooooooo much on advertising. I also agree that the Tojo's have a slightly better fit and finish......but this only matters for a couple of months until you get your first few scratches and the inside is full of dust etc (assuming you bought your vehicle to be a REAL 4 wheel drive in the 1st place).
Nissan is renowned for it's tough Patrol drive-line. I do agree with Pesty that the 4 cylinder donk is one to possibly steer away from and look at the old fashioned 4.2lt Diesel.
Cheers,
Roachie
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Reply By: Davoe - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:45

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:45
unfortunatly I have never driven a nissan so I cant make a direct comparison (I would like to) But the facts are the reason i have never driven a nissan is because they are not used by mining or exploration companys and only a handfull are used by contracters who wish there boss would spend the money and buy a toyota. It seems to me they are generally bought by private purchasers who need to save money rather than get the job done
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 18:26

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 18:26
Not quite the reason ... Toyota do way better large fleet deals than Nissan does.
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Follow Up By: pathfinder - Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 12:59

Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 12:59
it's called tradition/inertia/status quo Davoe - the GU/GQ Patrols are far better than MQs, but I guess some companies have been once bitten, thrice shy with MQs...
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Reply By: flappan - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:52

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:52
Its because toyota practically chuck them at the mining companies. Ever wonder why a Yota is so expensive to buy privately . . . cause they are so cheap for fleet buyers. Have to make money somewhere.

At the end of the day . . . Patrol . . . Cruiser . . . personal choice. Either will get you just about anywhere you want to go.
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Follow Up By: Pelesino - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:45

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:45
You may be right.... but I will disagree with "Either will take you anywhere", the new Yota won't go far with the IFS.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:47

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:47
Ddi you know the IFS 100 RTI score is virtually same as pootrol?
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Follow Up By: Pelesino - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:06

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:06
Nop. But you may be correct "VIRTUALLY" reality does not show that.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:08

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:08
This follow up thread is just text without your data ;-)
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:10

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:10
I love it when people talk with NFI , Fleet deals are equal or close to by all companies they give a National fleet discount to anyone with enough vehicles . Good try on trying to justify why they wont use Nissans , but guess again . You ever seen a Vehicle after the minnes finish with it ?
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Follow Up By: Bundyman - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 01:58

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 01:58
Flappan I have worked at over 10 underground mining sites across oz and 95% of them use cruisers and the one site that I was at that did have some nissans had already changed back to toyotas. Yes your correct about the nissan driveline being tough but the driveline isn't much chop to you when the chassis and body is U/S. Underground mining is the toughest and harshest environment/life you can give a 4x4 and most people would never treat their vehicles the way we do but for overall longativity the toyotas have it hands down. As for the fleet buyer discount, the company I work for buys second hand fleet vehicles from auction and then sends them U/G. At the end of the day its all about having a vehicle that suits your needs.
Cheers,
Hughesy
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen (WA) - Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 01:09

Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 01:09
Spot on Bundyman,

The nissan drivetrain (and handbrake) are superior to the tojo. However in all my years I haven't seen an u/g tojo fall in half due to a weak chassis (I have seen it from large amounts of rocks falling on them). I have seen PLENTY of u/g nissans that after a year or so underground at first bend, then after a while, fall in half - and thats even after the w/shop has added stiffners and plates to try and strengthen the chassis.

At the end of the day you'll end up with a vehicle that best serves your needs (price factors included). It just so happens that in the underground mining game (read: harsh environment), the Nissans are not as suitable as the tojo's by a considerable margin. The underground mining game hovever, is not the same as is played by most people on this forum.

Cheers
Stephen J.
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Follow Up By: Schevchenko - Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 18:14

Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 18:14
Mining companies use them because they are cheap and NARROW.
the rest is cod's wallopp
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 18:26

Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 18:26
Your reply is only text without data,

How much narrower are they than the GQ or GU?

How much cheaper than the nissan are they?

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen (WA) - Monday, Apr 26, 2004 at 00:04

Monday, Apr 26, 2004 at 00:04
The reason mining companies use tojos is because they are cheap and narrow - Bollocks!!!

I run undergorund mines for a living mate and that's not why we get tojo's. It's as per my previous post.

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Reply By: Mrs Diamond - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:56

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 16:56
gday the horse.
just got back from LANDCRUISER PARK qld
they use patrols for recovery vehicles.
and im patrol bias lol
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:02

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:02
Welcome back sweet tolerant lady!
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Follow Up By: Mrs Diamond - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:09

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:09
thats mr sweet tolerent lady thank you lolololol
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:12

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:12
my humble apologies, the dress completely threw me! roflmao
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Follow Up By: Mrs Diamond - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:14

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:14
its not a dress its a moomoo rofl
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:20

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:20
Stop it!, I may have to go change my clothes I am laughing so hard

hahahahah moomoo what a sight to behold!!!!
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Follow Up By: Mrs Diamond - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:32

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:32
ill sent you a pic with a g rofl
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:38

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:38
Now now now thats just WRONG! My email is behind my pic hahahaha!
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Follow Up By: Mrs Diamond - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:32

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:32
do you have a favourite colour lol
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:32

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:32
I love a midnight blue hue
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Reply By: Member - Peter (York) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:04

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:04
I hate the comment "buy a Nissan if thats all you can afford" there is no need to put a person down because he may earn less than you , I have seen good drivers and bad drivers in both of the main makes ,a 4x4 can only do what you will let it . I had a Toyota and switched to a GU Patrol I am happy I changed because the Patrol suits what I am doing not what I can afford .
To answer you question I have found the GU 4.2td a great 4x4 well built , plenty of room , and drives well .The extras have cost me less and I now have a great 4wd that does all I want it to
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:15

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:15
Hear Hear Peter, I have a Nissan cause I used to have a Maverick and although I could probably sell a couple of my kids to get the extra $$ needed to buy a Toyota I wanted to stick with a live axle and not go to the Independant. Its horses for courses.
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Follow Up By: Member -Bob & Lex (Sydney) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:46

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:46
I like the new chariot Peter. Its not the cost but the extras you can buy with the difference.
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Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:25

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:25
Lighten up peter dont take words so seriously and read my original post fully, I have been calling nissans poor mans toyotas for years (check with roachie), Im not talking about money as I drive 14 year old cruiser and im sure many of you spent more on your steeds than I did, you included by your rig pic, but in my experience over many years of punishing them the toyota is harder to kill when tested over time.
Most of the banter back and forward on the posts is about modern 4bys most of which have not covered 500,000 ks and I am on my third toyota that has covered this mileage, so until they do then they cannot be judged properly.

Cheers Pesty
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Reply By: Member - Jiarna (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:51

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:51
Either the Toyota or the Nissan will take you where you want to go with a minimum of fuss. I drive a 2001 Troopie ambulance and a GU Patrol 4.2td fleet car for work, and haven't killed either of them yet. They are both great vehicles. If I had to choose between the latest Cruiser and the latest Patrol, I'd lean towards the Patrol just because I don't like IFS. Just my 2c worth.
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Reply By: peck - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:57

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 17:57
Don't spend too much time off the bitumen particularly if fully laden - because they break! Rear coil spring towers are a major concern along with gearboxes and locking hubs ... and if you've got the rubbish motors the French put out ... that's another story. Good luck!
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Follow Up By: Flash - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:16

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:16
What absolute garbage.
I have driven both, I service both, I'd trust either in the bush, but if buying new tomorrow I'd buy the Nissan for TWO resaons:
1. Better value for my hard earned money
2. Better resale value- that's official, (not just my opinion) from Glass's guide.
You are full of it peck, both makes have had problem areas, but both are generally very good.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:00

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:00
So you saying 5th gear, flywheels and 3.0 engine failures dont happen flash????
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Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 18:37

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 18:37
Horse.
I must admit that i haven't read the other replies, I don't want to get caught up in the "war". But I do have a few points to make.
1) generally speaking, Toyota make better vehicles than almost anyone else. That goes for the Corolla thru to whatever their luxo saloon is. They have superior build procedures, plain and simple.

2) The Patrol is "tougher" ... proof is in the number of comp trucks that are GQ's and GU's.

3) Toyota's are either $7-8K dearer or 7-8 years older. Better re-sale.

4) You can buy a lot of accessories for $7-8K... or a 7-8 year younger truck

I drive a GQ, if I was to spend $30K tomorrow on a truck, it would be a GU. If I had $50k to spend, maybe a 100 series. Maybe! I was in a 100 Petrol V8 on the weekend, extremely nice car, but at $89K a bit too dear to take bush! I wouldn't have the petrol anyway, I would go for a (cheaper) diesel with live axle front end.

I hope this may help, it is just an opinion though.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:16

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:16
You dont think point 2 is becuse of price?
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:26

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:26
FORD EXPLORER !!!

Baz.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:30

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:30
well the exploder is a great buy 2nd hand, if the previous owner has fixed all the issues, ........but then it still looks like an exploder......8-)

Same goes for the cherokee.....8-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:37

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:37
1)
GO_OFFROAD, Yes... it probably does come down to price... refer my points 3 & 4 , but... the comp guys that I have spoken to have said the Patrol driveline is the toughest, the mags all say it, heck, I have a friend who is a dedicated Toyo nut.... and he wishes he had my GQ! I have no interest in the Toyo/Nissan war.... I bought my GQ on a value-for-money basis... and I love it!! Wouldn't have anything alse right now!! And like I said, if I had $50K to spend I might spend it differently. Maybe.

2)
Baz/GO_OFFROAD Sorry. I refuse to be drawn into the manufacturers wars.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:45

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:45
Its OK Brian, no need to explain,

I just wanted to point out that alot of comp trucks are built to a price, starting with a cheap vehicle, and your first assumption it was all to do with driveline may not of been 100% correct.

I remember my gq falling apart very quickly when i had it, the 80 had alot more grunt, bigger tyres, and did more comps and hard work, and it too did similar things in wear factor, but over 4 x the km that the gq had the same issues.

I wont go into the semantics of why the toyota rear suspension design works better lifted, or why the car handles better, has a better road feel with the steering set up etc, as those who need to know those things, already do ;-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:58

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 19:58
Was your GQ new when you bought it??? or second hand?? If second hand, maybe it had been flogged by the previous owner. I don't raise this as a cop out, simply that my GQ had been owned previously by the local Power company, regularly serviced, looked after etc.... and we bought a damn good car. A friend bought a GQ because "they're bullet-proof"..... but his had been abused badly by the previous owner. This one has cost him a motza!! Given the same circumstance, it could be any make of vehicle..... poor maintenance is poor maintenance!!!

As far as your comment "I wont go into the semantics of why the toyota rear suspension design works better lifted, or why the car handles better, has a better road feel with the steering set up etc, as those who need to know those things, already do ;-)" well.... if what you drive suits you, then that's fine! Doesn't mean it's better than what I drive or what anybody else drives. Like I said, I won't be drawn into manufacturer wars.... if it's got 2 diff's (minimum) and a fair dinkum low range, it's a 4by!! If it goes where you want it to, then fine!!
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:07

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:07
My GQ was 12 months old when I got it, it was a 93 model, back then, bent control arms, broken panhard rods, cracked body mounts, torn off sway bars, cracked rear doors, cracked chassis were not as common as today, and the 80 did 2 Aus safari's, before it started life as a comp truck for winch challenges rallies etc after that, and certainly faired better in the longer term than the GQ.

And like I said, no need to explain re suspensione etc, like I said, those that need to do ;-) so they drive what suits, as you said....

And nissans have medium range [36-1]....not low range [42-46-1] ;-)
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Reply By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:01

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:01
The Nissan drivetrain IS widely recognised as the strongest, and that answers your question.

Funny how the insecure Toyota owners always dive in and start talking price, trying to justify paying too much for an inferior 4WD. A look at redbook.com.au will confirm that the much stated resale difference has long been a myth.

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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:15

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:15
but surely 3 times + the No of cruiser compared to patrol buyers couldnt be wrong last year alone ;-)

It all depends if a widely recognised strong drivetrain is the major factor in buying a new vehicle or not.

My last 2 4wds have been over 200kw, and 520nm @ the wheels with 36" tyres, and had alot of abuse, and I didnt break the drivetrain on them, how much stronger would I need it to be, if it didnt break?

Oh, and they were both toyota's ;-)
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:29

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:29
Ok so first it was price and resale. bzzzzt you lose
Now its sales? bzzzzt again

The bloke SPECIFICALLY asked about drivetrain strength.

I know stockers that have broken Tojo diffs so you must drive like a pussy......
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Follow Up By: rolande- Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:33

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 21:33
The Honda 90 step-through is the largest selling motorbike in Australia, has been for years. Does this then mean that it is the best bike and Yamaha R1, etc, is not as good? We all know advertising, fleet sales etc, skew results.
Rolande
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:02

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:02
touche rolande - love your work son. LOL

GO_OFFROAD must be including the whole Tojo offroad arsenal to get 3 to 1 figures. That would include the mighty Rav and rockcrawling Kluger in with the IFS Blandcruiser and the Prado Westfield edition.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:44

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:44
Hey Andrew, didnt realise it was a competition, but thanks for your "valuable" input........
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:46

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:46
3 - 1 sales is land cruiser 120/100/78 sales vs patrol, no rav or kluger, as theya re up against the x trail....
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Follow Up By: The Horse - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:51

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:51
GO_OFFROAD - what are you trying to achieve here?
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:53

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:53
always happy to put in the minimum.....
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:56

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:56
Horse, I am only quoting some facts, and pointing out some misconceptions, is that a problem for you?
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:59

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:59
you have - conveniently - forgotten the pathfinder.... (as have many buyers)

but back to drivetrains.....
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Follow Up By: The Horse - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:10

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:10
GO_OFFROAD - I think the only prob here is that you have forgotten the original question. Scroll up and have a quick read, it might save you a little embarrassment.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:14

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:14
So HORSE, are you trying to say I am the only one who hasnt looked at the topic for a while, or I am the only one replying, or am I the only one not saying what you wish to hear?????
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 17:18

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 17:18
Since when do we stick to the topic
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 02:04

Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 02:04
Intersting read, GO_OFFROAD has a definite Toyota fettish as evidenced in HIS previous uninformed ramblings.

Toyota does have the market share by virtue of essentially GIVING away Cruisers to the mining and Govt sectors. The cost of this is borne by the average Joe that wishes to buy Toyotas, explaining why they have such a "price premium". Abslutely NOTHING to do with reliability or strength...

(5 studs throwing studs, front diffs on Prados, rear seal leaks in engines, and a few other maladies come to mind. I'm sure some owners will elaborate, not all of them are happy....)

The Toyota Myth (Snowy moutains scheme) ignores the fact that the original contract was to Land Rover, but due to the post war demand for vehicles most of the coalition manufacturers were unable to provide vehicles for non-military use (Jeep included).
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:39

Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:39
GaryinOz, can you tell me how many fleet and mining companies use the 120 series?

As this is what sold double the patrol last year, and was only on the market from March, I must say I dont know many companies that make a profit by giving cars away, but if it makes you feel better to think so, thats fine.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 17:15

Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 17:15
None , I would suspect. :)

If they were strong enough they would be used.

There again, most Mining companys' are after low maintanance vehicles. Too many electronic gizmos in the 120, and the "bargain basement" version is seriously underpowered.

Oh, and another couple of concepts in businness, "cross-subsidisation", ie you pay higher prices for your Camry so mining companies/fleet ops can have cheap vehicles, and "volume discount" ie you buy 100 of them then we cut 15% off the price.

.....and who really pays for the lavish and extensive advertising that Toyota use?

"Oh, what a fleecing"

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FollowupID: 317534

Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 17:38

Friday, Apr 23, 2004 at 17:38
So if the 120 is the biggest seller by more than double other cruisers, and the mines dont use them, and the 78/79 only about 20% of the 100 sales, how many cars do they actually give away?

Or are you clutching at straws here, and cant substantiate what your saying.......

I know the sales figures back my statement, what can you produce????????
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Reply By: The Horse - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:15

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:15
Now that I have returned from work I have had a chance to check over some responses. Thanks to Brian, Roachie and Steve who I feel had something interesting to say. At this stage I feel totally unbiased because I have not put money down for either. If its MY money then I don't give a crap about brand loyalty or other nonsense - I want the best and toughest my money will buy. I see debates about fleets etc naive - its about economics - also advertising. I was initially steering towards Toyota but the fact is so far that everyone whose opinion I respect ie: mechanics especially, say the nissans are built to a totally different spec level saying their gear boxes, diffs and transfer cases are massively larger and generally sourced from nissans 'light truck' catalogue. They may not drive like a corolla but I don't give a rats. These points don't really seem debatable - if a nissans gearbox is x times heavier then thats a fact. Nothing is coming up here to contradict that.
Thanks for the replies
AnswerID: 55193

Follow Up By: flashnick - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:28

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:28
If you care to research toughness issues - check out info on toyo front diffs on this forum and from your mechanics, may help clarify things in your mind ,

Nick
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:44

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:44
The front diff is an easy fix;-)

welcome to 1996.....
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:01

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:01
you mean spend $1400 on an airlocker and it "should" be OK?
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:03

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:03
Wow, $1400, wish you were my customer......8-)

But a ARB locker is part of the strengthening, along with another mod.
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:06

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:06
$1400 fitted is the rec. retail.
regardless of actual $, doesnt seem right when youve paid $10K extra for all of that toyota R&D....

and the $2.5K to get the spare where it belongs

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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:11

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:11
Thats the buety of the toyota pricing and marketing, it keeps people with these concerns out of toyota's....8-)

But a locker is a locker, so if fitting one, you get the added benifit, if you didnt get the twin $900 factory option of twin lockers when you fit it.

And the spare is an easy fix ;-) without being suckered into a kaymar boat anchor...
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FollowupID: 316990

Follow Up By: Member Eric - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:21

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 23:21
You cannot tell me that you have driven a Nissan & Toyota , and you think they drive the same . Jump into a 80 series then into a GQ and its like going from a Limo to a bus . You cannot argue with that , you also cant go past a 4.5 petrol infront of a 4.2 nissan petrol . Diffs , I will agree . If there was a mod to fit nissan diffs in a Cruiser , I would do it .

Dont start me Truckster lol
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FollowupID: 316993

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 17:19

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 17:19
Best and Toughest may be two different things
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
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FollowupID: 317144

Reply By: barrycam - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:24

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 20:24
Hi m8
I have owned a Nissan Patrol coil-cab turbo deisel for 2 years (61.0380klms) so far the vehicle has served my wife & I very well. We considered a Toyota R/V turbo diesel at the time of purchase but decided approx.$10.000 difference in price did not warrent going Toyota. A decision I do not regret.
The ride is far superior in the Nissan (all coil vers Coil/semi-eliptic).Power is down to the Toyota but a 3ins exhaust & tweaked up pump (done by Nissan dealer ¬ affecting the warrenty) has seen a vast improvement in power.
We toured N.S.W & Vic. last year for 10 weeksin June this year we intend to visit the Terrirory for 12 weeks towing a 17ft Jaco poptop caravan, we expect no trouble if things continue as they have.
Just another reason we choose a Patrol was B.M.A coal the company I work for have used the Patrol as the vehicle of choise in the mines at the Bowen Basin Coal fields for the last 4 years. Believe me the coal mining industry is a tough task master as far as vehicles go.
Hope I,vebeen of some help to you
Cheers Barry
AnswerID: 55197

Reply By: Pauley - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:08

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:08
Hi,
I drive a Nissan Patrol at work, no idea what model it is but there are only about 37000K on the and its a 4.2 turbo diesel. My own 4wd is a 81 Toyota 2H ute. I did a couple of quick trips thru Normanton Burketown Doomadgee last week in the Nissan. It was really comfortable to ride in and for reasonably smooth dirt roads I doubt if it could be bettered but those coil springs certainly seem soft when it hit a decent dip or bump or something. I doubt if the Nissan will last anywhere near as long as the old ute if it spends most of its time up here.
Paul
AnswerID: 55218

Reply By: goingplatinumcomau - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:33

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:33
What things have gone wrong with the car?
I purchased a Nissan Patrol 3.0 GR 5Dr in December 2000 through a Nissan dealer in Dublin. The engine was replaced under recall at 30,000 miles, the spigot bearing then failed after a short time (we paid the bill), after replacing the spigot bearing it became difficult to select reverse gear and eventually the gearbox failed at 61,000 miles (we paid for new gearbox). Now at 100,000 miles the 2nd engine has to have the head gasket replaced due to failure and this will cost an estimated £1,300.00. The Nissan garage has stated that there will not be any goodwill gesture due to some French geezer who now runs Nissan Japan, do I have any recourse with Nissan and if so what? The vehicle has always been serviced on time by an authorized Nissan dealer. I have spoken to the RAC and they have not really made any comment other than the vehicle is out of warranty. I have spoken to other Nissan Patrol owners and they are amazed at the problems I have encountered as they have not had any problems whatsoever, one person has had 5 Nissan Patrols and never had a failure, was he lucky or is there an endemic problem with this model. Hoping you may be able to shed dome light on the problem.

Yours Faithfully,
Allan Feltham.
(Swindon area)

P.S. I have had the vehicle serviced 2 weeks ago and the Nissan garage has told me that there is a problem with the turbocharger and the front discs need to be replaced.
General comments?
Good 4x4 vehicle seriously let down by very poor engine and gearbox. Nissan are poor to deal with


..............................
8th Oct 2003, 02:10 Patrol gr 3 vdi 's French owner, we have the same problems as Allan. Bought in October 2000, 77 000 km, the engine and crankcase were replaced by NISSAN in 2001 because the crankcase was too small. Then, NISSAN changed theair-conditionning. And now since April 2003, the engine heats up and we lost power. NISSAN accepts, just now after 5 months, to change the radiator. We are not ready to get back the vehicle because we think it is not reliable any more. We think there are problems on that kind of vehicle and we would like that NISSAN hears us to make an exchange with a new vehicle. Could you write us to make a point and made an approach Nissan. Isabelle BEGUN 92190 MEUDON FRANCE.
.................
17th Jan 2004, 13:39 Join the list of dis-satisfied Nissan Patrol Customers.

Both Nissan and the Nissan Dealers do not care about you when they have your money. They must be amongst the most hateful group of people to have any dealings with.

I unfortunately have a Nissan Patrol (Utter Rubbish) and my wife has a Nissan Almeria (Not a lot better)
If I could con someone into giving me any reasonable price for them I would get rid
.........................
9th Apr 2004, 03:56 I had a Nissan Patrol from September 2001 to December 2003
From the first service it required more than a dozen visits to Arnold Clark to repair faults with the engine management-completed July 03 finally. But--worse-the brake pedal started to go down to the floor--it was taken to Arnold again repeatedly from April 032 till August,03 when I had it examined by an independent-and was warned not to drive it as the brakes and other parts were defective. Over the next 3 months, while off the road, it was examined independently, failed an MOT, was tested by the RAC and examined by Lothian and Borders Police--in all cases it failed on brakes. Nissan would not discuss, as it was a contract hire, and I was not the owner--just the driver whose life was at risk. The contract hire company Lombard took it away on 5th December, but continue to invoice it to me. They recently sent a letter via their lawyer saying it had been examined and repaired, and passed an MOT, and there were no brake faults. I have passed them, and Arnold Clark the pages of the MOT test manual which confirms that a pedal touching the floor is a failure point. Email me if you require more or have same problem
keb@rsp.net.
..............
It appears to be happening all over the World.

However keep buying them ........... There just going to have amazeing resale value ??

Car salesmen don't tell Lies ?
AnswerID: 55225

Reply By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:33

Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 at 22:33
I own both - a Ford Mav and a 100 series TD Landcruiser. Now, if I could get a vehicle with the Toyota turbo diesel inside a Nissan chassis and drive train - I'd buy a dozen tomorrow. Tojo's = smooth 'n powerful. Nissans = tough.

PS - I bought the Cruiser as part of a company car deal and to use as a "round Australia" tow vehicle. If, by the time I return from that trip, Nissan have a six cylinder motor that pulls better than the Tojo I have now - I'll swap it - instantly.

Bilbo
AnswerID: 55226

Reply By: The Horse - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 07:07

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 07:07
Now I suppose its up to me to sort out the guff and hot air from the substance. The original question was to do with toughness, I suppose I was hoping to hear a few more reports from mechanics etc who have worked on these vehicled. This was something a test drive will not show.
Thanks for the replies!
AnswerID: 55250

Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 11:09

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 11:09
Search the net, and forums for problems associated with models. Im sure your answer will become apparent soon enough.

People complain about price on toyota, [poor prople cant afford cheap things ;-) ] and a front diff issue, which is easily fixable.

Nissan has had its share of issues, as this thread has detailed some, and alot of people had to battle for warranty on items that were an issue, to get them fixed.

Just the issues I have seen with Gu's that have been 4wding with me, are enough to make me happy with my choices, though what i do might not be what everyone does either.

Driving both is what you should do to make up your mind though, taking into account in the back of your mind, the results of your research.

Once you know your budget, price should be one of the last criteria in your desicion.
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FollowupID: 317058

Follow Up By: The Horse - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 17:36

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 17:36
GO_OFFROAD - I have actually taken your advice. the 4.2 nissan diesels definately have the reputation as the toughest there is according to the searches I have done. I am completely unattached to either brand and initially approached patrol's reputation with suspition to protect my wallet. The early 3.0td seemed to be a small glitch, but I am not in the market for this motor anyway.
Thanks for the advice.
Horse.
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 23:30

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 at 23:30
Having read all that and other toyota/nissan threads I'm convinced that a vast majority of toyota/nissan owners get around with one hand in their pocket for reasons other than looking for coin.
AnswerID: 55414

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 at 13:32

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 at 13:51

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 at 13:51
[ View Image]
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Reply By: Keith Scott - Saturday, Apr 24, 2004 at 00:20

Saturday, Apr 24, 2004 at 00:20
I'm just wondering if this is the longest thread currently on ths forum?? how can we find this out?? just out of interest!
AnswerID: 55715

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Apr 24, 2004 at 15:21

Saturday, Apr 24, 2004 at 15:21
Not a chance, we've had some with well over 100 responses
.
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FollowupID: 317610

Reply By: Schevchenko - Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 18:31

Sunday, Apr 25, 2004 at 18:31
We all know - every man and his dog knows - even toyota CEO knows - the Patrol is a much tougher truck. I can't believe there is even debate on this. It doesn't mean its better though.
AnswerID: 55887

Reply By: Mike-TS - Friday, May 14, 2004 at 00:16

Friday, May 14, 2004 at 00:16
I've never read so much opinionated and unsubstantiated bollocks.

As an engineer (Master of Engineering Degree) and a non-Toyota and non-Nissan owner let me tell you something: Every mechanical device has a flaw somewhere. The flaw may be critical or non-critical. What I mean by this is sometimes a vehicle can be driven with a flaw all it's life and no impact will be seen by the driver. Sometime however the flaw is more serious and the driver will notice.

One of my friends bought a brand new GXL 4.2L Toyo in 2000 and within 1000km the gearbox packed in and Toyo replaced it. There was a thread on this site for a while where a guy bought a new 4.2 TD Toyo and the clutch packed in - many moons later Toyo replaced it! This doesn't mean that Toyo's are crap it just means that the flaw for that specific vehicle turned out to be critical.

I've not experienced a Nissan problem firsthand but there certainty appears to be lots of myths out their. Another friend at my swimming club went to great lengths to tell me why a 4 cylinder diesel engine was weak because it revs harder - yeah right. Maybe our little Japanese friends thought about that when they designed it? Give me strength!

Toyo 80 TD had a problem with big ends, Nissan GUII 3.0 TD had a problem with lubrication (or so I'm led believe from all the threads). So what? It's part of the nature of desiging a new mechanical device. Only many miles in the public domain fully tests out these mechanical devices. These may have been fundamental design problems withthe initial release vehicles but they all seem to be ironed out now.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of vehicles that are sold every year of course one or two are going to keel over. It's the natural order of life. It's impossible to have an accident free life or a flawless mechanical device. This applies to Toyo's and Nissans.

So get over it. Chose a vehicle that you like and can afford and live with the mechanical flaws...they all have them.

By the way I had a Landrover Defender once...best 4WD running gear ever but Landrover decided to wrap a lot of crap round this and ruin the vehicle. Now that's a designer that I would like to slap about for a while!!!! How can someone just not get it?!

AnswerID: 58545

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