Traveling with firearms?

Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
ThreadID: 1258 Views:3069 Replies:26 FollowUps:31
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Just wondering what, if any permits are required for a person with a ACT gun licence to take a registered gun through SA, NT, & WA on a Four-wheel driving trip?
thanks in advance for any input!

Frank
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Reply By: Darryn - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Frank Don't !!! You maybe ok in SA, possibly in NT but if checked by police in WA they will probably confiscate your firearm. The supposed "National Firearms Laws" are anything but national. Check the SSAA website at www.ssaa.org.com for more info.
Regd's Darryn
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Reply By: Bob - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
A smart move Frank. Goran is out there somewhere in the NW of WA with the AK47 under the seat of the Toyota, so it makes a lot of sense to have a weapon with you, just in case.
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Follow Up By: Goran - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Bob , you have always been an idiot , so you can stop proving that here .
Kiss my serbian arse , you bleep . I hope i will see you some day in the scrub.
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Follow Up By: Bob - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Not if I see you first Goran.
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Reply By: Frank - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
The wepon wouldn't be carried for self defence, more just incase we injure wildlife on the road, or maybe to whop the odd bunny in bush camps when no one is around for miles. Would only consider a bolt-action 22lr, bolt and ammunition would be stored seprate from the rifle!

cheers!
Frank
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Reply By: Steve - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Frank,

I would contact the SSAA regarding requirements. I used to shoot competitions and people do this with frearms all the time. You may need to say you need the firearm to shoot benchrest at the Broome SSAA range :). The reqirements for storage are fairly onerous however, and loose the gun or get it stolen and your in big do do!!
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Reply By: jono - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
I'm going to stick my neck out and i'm prepared to cop a bit of bleep for this, but i dont care...KEEP YOUR GUN OUT OF WA!!!!!!!!! If you are traveling around the country, there is no need whatsoever to carry a gun. There are no if's, but's or maybe's... you do not need to take a gun with you. Millions of animals get hit by passing cars every year and as bad as this is, if everyone carried a gun just in case they hit a roo, then what kind of country would we be in? The gun laws are for a reason, and i hope the authorities would crack down bloody hard on anyone driving round the country with a gun. I'm sorry mate, but the risks are just too great and lets face it...thats why there are laws to prevent people having guns. If you need a gun for your farm, thats fine, but it stays on the farm. You dont take it with you to town just in case you hit something on the way do you? So why would you take it when driving round the country.
Thats my two bobs worth. Jono.
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Follow Up By: Mark - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Jono,
I also believe guns should stay home and after travelling thousands of km's in the Australian bush I am yet to come across a situation where a gun was necessary. If you wound an animal then a heavy blunt instrument will do just as good a job. Carrying a gun in a vehicle is creating an avenue for the gun to end up in the wrong hands and a piece of wire will not stop a determined thief.
Mark
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Follow Up By: Goran - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Ah, freedom is a wonderfull thing but always under threat from some nut who thinks he has the right to tell others off, for excersizing their rights. Man has the licence for the firearm he intend to carry . Providing he complies with requirements of the particular state he travels trough he has the right to do as he pleases. THAT IS CALLED FREEDOM . How many people you know Jono that shouln't be driving on the roads . Those people represent 1000 times more concern to me while am traveling rather than a rifle in someones cargo . Jono , look at the England . Gun ownership there is 95% gone but the crime is higher than ever . Laws in OZ are there to make sure that the wrong person doesn't get the licence , not to prevent people of having firearms ,so get it right.
Thanks heavens this is still a free country and the do goders like you that live under the bubble and ilusion of police protection are still a minority . Remember that cuple near Alice ? If that was you , would't you like at least a chance against this lunatic ? Think about it . Closed mind is incurable illness.
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Reply By: Frank - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
keep your nose outa it mate.. all your doing is trying to start a flame, you dont understand the situation, how do you know that the reason im traveling in the 1st place isnt to shoot in competition rimfire matches huh?? you dont know, thats right.. the question wasnt " what are your thoughts on me bringing my gun into your state" it was simply aimed at the people who might know the rules/regulations and be able to kindly help me out.. Insted you chose to start a flame, critisizing shooters in general, and during all yr crapping on, you still failed to answer my question, so i ask?? why did you bother to post at all?? i dont find your information the least bit usefull and im sure as hell not ganna take one bit of notice on your petty opinion!
Its people like you who shouldnt be part of a chat forum, Sure we are all intitled to our own opinions, but when your paticular thoughts on a topic go as far as victimising another person you should keep them to your self!
this enviroment isnt designed so you can hack at other people.. its for 2 parties, the 1st being those who would like to know an answer to a question, and the 2nd are those people who want to HELP the person in need....
in future i strongly advise that you keep your opinion to yourself..
Thanks again for all of you who helped me! (that excludes you jono)
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Follow Up By: Frank - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
I should also add that you should be greatful that im taking the time to follow up the legal permits and such... few to many people chose to just slip the firearm under the seat wraped in a bit of rag and hope no one will notice...
i should also mention that the firearm would be bolted to the 4wd via steel cable through the action.
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Follow Up By: Ditzy - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
But Frank, you said the reason you were wanting to take the guns were to assist in case of injured animals or to shoot the odd bunny that hopped into camp. If you were going to enter a competition, why not say that. Sorry, but your reaction to someone's opinion in answer to your question was rather reactionary - makes one wonder exactly why you do want/need to take firearms. If you were going to enter a competition then the Club you belong to would be able to answer your queries. I congratulate you on seeking the information prior to taking off on your trip.
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Follow Up By: Frank - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Ditzy, i was simply using the competition thing as a way of proving a point that people shouldnt jump in and abuse people like that, whether they feel that way about the topic or not!
cheers.
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Follow Up By: Richard - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Dear Jono [Mr anti-gun], Don't mouth off too quickly...unless of course you're still using horse and cart. How 'bout we take your car away and ban you from using any means of modern transport, that way you can never have a guilty conscience by supporting a bigger killer in everyday life than guns ever were.
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Follow Up By: Frank - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE

thanks for the suport rich.

I came here with a simple question in mind and end up getting my head eatin off.. not a very welcoming enviroment.. dont think ill be back in a hurry
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Reply By: Rob - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Frank, If you are going to travel through Aboriginal Lands, check the permit requirements. In WA you can carry firearms through the reserves but not use them however this may not be the same for SA or NT.
Rob
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Reply By: Mike - Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002 at 00:00
Frank, despite your outburst, yours is not the only opinion allowed here. If you don't want all the opinions, why bother asking. I agree that unless you are competing, which you did say you weren't, there is more than no reason to carry a fire arm. If as you say, it's to shoot the odd bunny at a seclude campsite, don't in SA. Here, you need a license for the weapon, a license as a shooter AND WRITTEN permision from any land owner, who's property you are shooting on. If it's not on private property, then it' is totally illegal to use it for ANY purpose, however humane your intentions may be. Add to that the hassles you will get from any copper who finds out you've got a rifle, and is it really worth it. So do yourself a favour and leave it home.
Happy trails, Mike.
PS. Sorry if you don't like this answer either, but them's the facts.
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Follow Up By: Goran - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Rubbish . Frank you are allowed to shoot on any pastoral land , if property owner gives you VERBAL permission. People have been known to get the licence for shooting on Comonwealth land in WA . Go to police station whre you live and ask for interstate firearms permit. One of those will ensure you hassle free travel . Every time you cross the state border you will be required to submit the firearm for inspection .
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Reply By: Cruiser - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Frank,
I was with you when you asked the initial question and applauded your efforts to seek appropriate information. However, your emotional, inarticulate outbursts make me wonder whether you are temperamentally stable enough to possess a firearms license in the first place.
Quoting that old chestnut about people killing people does nothing to support your argument or that of much of the shooting fraternity in this day and age - it is merely an indication of an inability to present an adequate argument to support your case.
We all know that those who have caused the current legislation to be enacted in the first place (Port Arthur, etc.) may have appeared to be rational, stable people at the time when they applied for their firearms licences. They too may have wanted it for nothing more than a bunny for the camp oven. But a few nights in the bush, a few tinnies, an argument and firearms are a pretty lethal mix. So for me, your responses put you in the wrong category.
By the way, I am not against firearms - I have carried, taught and used them for many years, including to save my life in situations rather more challenging than those I have ever faced in the Australian bush.
Cheers, Cruiser
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Reply By: Goran - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
We should ban knives and forks than mate . And tyre levers , hi lift jacks fire extinquisers, 4x4s etc.. The truth is no argument is good enough for a closed mind . Frank is quoting a proven statistical fact . It would be nice to have perfect world , with no guns , violence , drugs ...but it is not going to happen . In the mean time all Frank is saying is that he asked for info , not for your wiew of the gun laws and political verbal diahrea Jono , Mark and bob excersize here . You dont need guns to kill , idiots in the cars are doing pretty good job in this country.
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Reply By: Peter - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Frank you are caught in NSW with a dismantle crossbow without a special permit to carry it, you have immediiatly your crossbow confiscated and you'll pay $1000 fine if you are a good person. These are the facts. Specially after Spt 11 the concealement of fire amrs is a serious offence which may attract jail term . Peter
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Reply By: Mike - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Like I said, if you don't want to hear the opinions, don't ask the question. I've said before and will again, that the mentality of you guys to just abuse other contributors who give an answer you don't like, really shows your childish mentality, it will eventually kill this excellent forum if it doesn't stop. So go back to channel 2 on your UHF and let us carry on a sensible, friendly and informative forum. The fact is in SA you need written permission to shoot on private land and it is totally illegal on govt or crown land. Thanks for asking the question Frank, but accept the replies as they are trying to help. Happy trails, Mike.
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Reply By: Robert - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Must say I totally agree with Frank about taking a gun to put down injured wildlife, yes you can hit them on the head with a solid object but it's certainly not a pleasant experience nor is it as safe or clean as using a firearm, I certainly wouldn't like to approach a large wounded animal trying to get close enough to hit it cleanly on the head, also we usually take our dogs when go camping and I know if one was seriously wounded or poisoned there's no way I could hit it over the head, it's a hard enough job putting down a dog using a firearm.

Also it's a very sad fact that your not allowed to own a firearm for self protection, if your camped by yourself it's comforting to know you've got your firearm with you if an undesirable element turns up and the situation turned nasty. Perhaps because your not allowed to own a firearm for self protection explains why so many people are frightened to camp by themselves and instead always have to travel in groups.

How many shooting's involve legal firearms? - very very few.
How many shooting's involve illegal firearms? - the vast majority, but for some reason those who are anti guns are strangely silent when a shooting takes place involving illegal firearms.

From some of the responses which mentionedPort Arthur, sept 11 you would think Frank was talking about taking an assault rifle, for Christ sake there is such a thing as common sense and not going from one extreme to another.
Someone mentioned "a few tinnies, an argument and firearms are a pretty lethal mix" from that comment we could all over react and say okay let's ban beer!

All Frank asked was "if any permits are required for a person with a ACT gun licence to take a registered gun through SA, NT, & WA", he didn't ask for comments on whether he should or shouldn't own a firearm.
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Reply By: Ken R - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
Thought of doing the same thing myself Frank .Intended to take the opportunity to do some pig shooting on our trip nsw/sa/nt in August. However the laws make it extremely difficuly to conform. Some states you have to have in hand the written authority to shoot on a property before you take off on your trip.Custody of firearms on a trip in a vehicle is a problem if you are travelling with anyone who is unlicenced.They are not to have any access to the firearms ,includes keys (keep them off the car key ring). Upon enquiring aboutReserves, National Parks etc it was just one big hassle.Unfortunately a lot of police do not know the lintricate aspects of the laws and while you may have taken the trouble to ensure you are abiding with various state laws an ill informed policeman will take your rifles and you will spend the rest of your holiday trying to get them back. Ron & Viv Moon carry a small arms rifle for the reason you stated however I'm not confident approval would be given to you or I for the same purpose. You will naturally get a reaction from city folk who spend a lot of their time with their noses in the froth of beer not knowing what an enjoyable past time vermin hunting and wandering over mountains etc can be. I'm a city bloke of some 30 years ( not age) but never lost the country feeling I was born with and experiences of younger years. Unfortunately it may prove more convenient to leave the rifles home Frank unless you are on a specific hunting trip.
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Follow Up By: Gg - Wednesday, Jun 26, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 26, 2002 at 00:00
its not the blokes with the beer in front of them its these ill in formed gutless women and the snagy boyfreinds
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Reply By: Bob - Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 06, 2002 at 00:00
I've grown up with firearms and have a permit for the purposes of controlling foxes and rabbits on my property.

I love going bush and travelling through National Parks, pastoral leases and aboriginal lands. I usually take enough food with me so I don't need to shoot rabbits on these trips ( ran out red half way across the Simpson once - that'll never happen again). I have had to knock an injured roo on the head with a tomahawk once in ten years of outback travel.

As far as I am concerned I have no need whatsoever to carry a firearm with me on trips. As for other people having weapons with them - I would feel a hell of a lot safer if they didn't. You only have to read Goran's postings (above) to see why.
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Follow Up By: Goran - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Dont worry farm boy , i dont need firearms to deal with you . Just intend to slap you around a little for provoking me without any reason ....:-)
Maybe i will just let your tyres down .
Unless any of you big mouth do goders had ever been in situation where you where facing mortal danger , you really dont know what you are talking about . Gun is a mere tool and nothing more . Extension of your hand , just like baseball bat , knife etc . There is not any magic powers in the gun that make people comitt crime or shoot other people . As for me , i will keep my rifle in my Tojo for as long as i can . God forbid the need arises i will have one more chance of making it home .
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Reply By: Cruiser - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Hey Goran,
How do you reconcile your professed respect for freedom with the threats implied in your desire to meet someone in the bush one day? Or with your perceived lack of protection the ordinary citizen can expect from the law and its officers? In the same way as I respect anybody's right to carry and use firearms for lawful purposes, I also respect your right to freedom. There is an element of sense in some of the things you say. However, I am not entirely convinced that your frequent abrasive, threatening language is winning you many friends on this forum. If we can so easily raise the temperature of the debate whilst playing with our keyboards, I can only reiterate my earlier comments about arguments and tinnies.
Cheers, Cruiser
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Follow Up By: Ruth - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Well said Cruiser.
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Reply By: jono - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
To Frank (and others),
Look guys, i never intended to cause this much trouble. But i do have a couple of points to make in response to the crap that has been directed at me. First things first: Frank - contrary to what you may like to think, when you post a question on this forum you are going to get peoples opinions thrown in with the responses. Secondly, i have to say that i stand by my earlier statement that started all this...and that was basically that i don't feel there is any need at all to be carrying a firearm in a recreational vehicle. You guys might not agree with me, but i still have to say that i cant understand why anyone needs to be carrying a gun unless they are police, or actually working on a property (however none of these scenarios applies to you Frank). Thridly, i feel very sorry indeed for whoever it was that suggested people would feel more comfortable camping in the outback alone if they carried guns! I see no logic in this argument at all. Forthly, i am not saying this as some stupidly naive city person. Yes i now live in the city, but i lived in the country for quite a number of years in the past. So i do know how important guns are to farmers and the like. But this does not change my view on the matter. OK, so my feelings are strong on this, but not without reason....i have seen first hand what can happen when guns do fall into the wrong hands, and believe me, no matter how careful you are, if someone wants to get your gun they will, even if it is secured in your car. While i'm willing to accept that you guys have a different opinion to me, i don't feel that my earlier statements deserved some of the responses dished out by a few of you. I honoustly do believe that everyone would be better off if there wern't a whole lot of people driving around with guns in their cars. I accept that the main problem is the psychos with unregistered guns, but i think fewer guns all round would be for the better. I am willing to give Frank the benefit of the doubt and assume he is a very responsible gun owner, but i think the benefit to him in carrying a gun in his car is far outweighed by the associated risk to the wider community. Guns do have their place, I just happen to think that that place is on a farm or in other controled environments, and not out in the community. Cheers, Jono.
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Reply By: Mike - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Well said, Jono, Cruiser and Bob. This is a forum, that means we surely have the right to an opinion without being abused and threatened. We appreciate that Frank took the opportunity to ask the question, that's what we are here for, but when you ask, be prepared for responses that you may not agree with. Goran, if you can't carry on a conversation without threats and abuse, why don't you take your toys and go play in someone elses sand pit, you are rapidly becoming unwelcome here. Now I know that this will only incite another childish outburst, but I'm afraid that only backs up what I and others have tried to tell you before.
Happy (gun free) trails, Mike.
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Follow Up By: Ruth - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
I agree with you and the other Mike - I have travelled far and wide, mostly alone and camp lots of strange places but I have never felt the need to carry a gun. Yes, I do know how to use one and yes whilst I was born in the city I have lived outback for a long time. Yes, I have needed to put livestock and small furry animals out of their misery which I find difficult. Yes, I have been in sticky situations but I firmly believe (age is a wonderful thing because you can sometimes gain wisdom, as well as hindsight) that had there been guns (or other weapons) things could have ended badly. Now, Frank - putting aside all the emotional stuff (which I find increasingly distasteful - note my comment a few weeks back on that matter - in a question on Mt Dare) - you may have by now telephoned all the relevant authorities (sometimes a lot quicker than the internet and more personal) and have found the answers to some of the questions, e.g. permits. Is this so? What were the answers please? As for the emotional and personal - is Goran for real? If so, could someone let me know if ever he's coming out my way - I think he needs counselling. As for guns - becomes a moral issue. Will I take one and take my chance, or will I not? Happy Trails, Mike - check Mal's reply in Coolin's question on Simpson Track condition. Oh yes, Mike - the Sioux and Comanche are very friendly around the Stony Desert these days so don't worry about the Colt. Come on everyone ease up on the rubbish - this Forum is about the passing of information.
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Reply By: Rob - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Travelling in isolated areas necessatates some level of personal protection. This is the real world, not some lala land seen through your monitor, and there are nutters out there, just ask the english tourist whose other half was taken out by some nutter who they stopped to help,some holiday. This is a democracy, firearms are legal, the licensing procedures are stringent, and if you choose to travel with a firearm providing that you abide with the rules and regulation of the relevant states, you can do so. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to carry a firearm in a vehicle is you have the correct documentation. If I choose to take one, I do so for one reason and one reason alone, not to kill injured animals, that I do with a knife, but for personal protection mine and that of my family. If confronted by a nutter where the situation would be life threatening I will not be the victim.
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Reply By: Cruiser - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Rob, Whilst I agree with much of what you say, I think you'll find that 'personal protection' is NOT on the list of reasons why the authorities would issue a gun license. There is no such thing as a legal way to carry guns for personal protection. Undermines your argument a bit. Cheers, Cruiser
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Follow Up By: Cruiser - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
PS. Using the English couple as an example (yours): they stopped, quite innocently, to help someone they thought was in trouble. Are you really suggesting that any time you saw someone in that (possible) predicament, you would pull out your gun until you were sure things were safe? Like something from a cowboy movie? Seems like a different kind of Lala-land to me.
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Follow Up By: Rob - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Cruiser,thats not what I said nor what I am suggesting, if thats your interpretation there is nothing that I can say to convince you otherwise as it appears that you have made up your mind. We live in a democracy where everybody is allowed their freedom to do and say as they wish as long as it legal to do so. Cheers Rob
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Follow Up By: Cruiser - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
Again, I respect your rights to your opinion and to be able to carry a firearm, legally. But these are your words: "If I choose to take one, I do so for one reason and one reason alone, not to kill injured animals, that I do with a knife, but for personal protection mine and that of my family. If confronted by a nutter where the situation would be life threatening I will not be the victim." Very difficult to interpret any other way. I would suggest that if you were ever in such a situation and shot someone, these words might well be held against you in a court of law. The words 'intent' and 'pre-meditated' don't seem too outrageous if a clever lawyer or prosecutor were involved. Far from having a closed mind, I am simply inviting you to consider the ramifications of your language.
Cheers, Cruiser
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Follow Up By: Rob - Saturday, Jun 08, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Jun 08, 2002 at 00:00
Cruiser,If the situation arose, where the life of your wife/partner/friend or kids was theatened and action was taken that averted this, I personally couldnt care less of the legal implications ("life threatening" rather than intent or premeditated) because (and agian this is my opinion) I would rather go home to my family and worry about the legal consequences than just have pictures and memories of what was. By the way this opinion is based on personel experience of an unpleasent incident were a very good friend is no longer here due to the actions of a nutter, a situation which could have happened to anybody travelling. Unfortunately we do not have crystal balls where you can predict the future.Cheers Rob
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Reply By: Rob G - Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 07, 2002 at 00:00
can't really give any advice thru recent experience, but i went thru the whole permit thing for a round oz trip in '93 (EX Melb). when I was pulled over by the nullabor coppers (as they do with everyone), I let them know i had a .22 with a state permit. they came down pretty heavy on me & wanted to know which property i was to use it on. luckily i had a legitimate reason, 'cos they'd taken their angry pills that day.

also went geese shooting with a mate out of darwin (not with the .22). we were surprised out in the field by the local coppers, who checked our firearms, ammo type & licences. they were pretty cool about it all 'cos we had all the legit stuff.

got pulled over again when entering SA by the local cops. didn't ask me about any firearms on board.
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Reply By: Macca - Saturday, Jun 08, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Jun 08, 2002 at 00:00
Jono,
if you are coming into WA with a low power rifle (eg .22 cal) bring your ACT licence and stop off at the first cop shop as you enter our country.
Temporary permits for the purpose of transit of firearm and matching ammo are available at 11 bucks a month or part thereof for a max of 3 months. (section 17 Firearms Act 1973). Conditions can be endorsed to use the firearm, but must demonstrate genuine need to use. Transit only is perhaps the go. You must divulge full convictions including traffic matters and a check is done on you and the firearm.
If you are a member of a club you can get an interstate group permit (17A Firearms Act) which is issued to your club, nominates you, and you are nominated by the club who give you a copy to carry with you. This is for the purpose of competing in a shoot etc and is valid for 28 days max.
If carrying firearm in vehicle the very onerous regulations of firearm storage cabinets don't apply, but CDF would dictate that some appropriate security be used. Can't comment on other states and territories but uniformity of legislation was the aim when the Act was amended so I imagine similar laws apply. The law is unemotive in respect to the issue, just tells you what you can and can't legally do.
Hope this link works, otherwise try www.slp.wa.gov.au and follow your nose. http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/statutes/regs.nsf/Current%20Legislation%20Version2?OpenView&Start=1&Count=600&Expand=19&RestrictToCategory=F#19
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Follow Up By: Ruth - Sunday, Jun 09, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Jun 09, 2002 at 00:00
Macca, a sensible answer - exactly what the question (the original question) required. Maybe someone from the other states will come up with the rules and regulations. Thank you.
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Reply By: winaje - Saturday, Jun 08, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Jun 08, 2002 at 00:00
Have a look at http://www.afp.gov.au/page.asp?ref=/Prevention/GunLicensing/ and hopefully you will be able to get some answers. As has been said before, speak to the SSAA, which for you is on Majura Road just near the Federal Highway. Take their advice. You should find that they will be able to help you as they are in all states... Bill Church
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Reply By: Goran - Sunday, Jun 09, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Jun 09, 2002 at 00:00
O.K. guys . Lets break this debate into some basic issues . Nobody has the right to impose their oppinion on other people. Especially when it comes to security and personal safety . Some of us feel safe traveling around the place , and some of us don't . Some of you don't like some of us taking guns on our trips . Fair enough . Is it legal ? You bet it is .
Why do we carry guns while traveling ? Because it is safe to travel around the place ? I don't think so . For as long as is legal to do so i can't see what the problem is . You guys might not like it , but tough bleep , it is none of your buisness . It is also none of my buisness how many cartons of beer you are carrying , if you have driving licence , if you have overloaded your vehicle e.t.c. Only lunatic can believe that firearm can influence otherwise sane and responsible person . Cruiser seems to think that the firearm is some kind of mind altering device that activates it's self once the owner has few beers . That is just plain stupid . As for a statement that using the firearm in self defense is somehow against the law , you Cruiser ( your real name??) got it all wrong . Self defence is not the lawfull reason to apply for a firearm , but once you have it you can use it in extreme circumstances . Comes down to a common law and section from 1974 that states now abandoned (in W.A.) equal force and reasonable force . So at least in W.A. if you life is in danger you can use all means nessesery to protect it . According to a law Police DOES NOT HAVE OBLIGATION to protect your life , in other words they don't have to risk their life to protect yours . If you think that there is nothing dangerous in the bush to endanger your life , think again . What would happen if you stumble uppon drug smugllers somewhere in North W.A. while cruising along the beach . Do you think they will just let you go ? I can give you more examples from the real life but if is all in vain i am afraid . As i said before , there is no cure for a closed minds and there are lot of them here . It is hard to know what are the dangers out there unless you become a victim . That is something that a lot of people are determined to avoid at any cost . If that is something that doesn't agree with you , and is totaly against what you believe join the anti - gun lobby . In the mean time mind your buisness and get a life .
Ruth , i was just joking around with Bob , there is not need to panic . :-)
AnswerID: 4095

Reply By: Ruth - Sunday, Jun 09, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Jun 09, 2002 at 00:00
Goran, I don't care whether you were joking or not. I think the time has come to ignore your outbursts. I am very interested in this question - but more interested in the actual legislative answers than opinions.
AnswerID: 4098

Reply By: Mark - Monday, Jun 10, 2002 at 00:00

Monday, Jun 10, 2002 at 00:00
Regarding the business of carrying guns for personal protection as mentioned in the above post, lets look a couple of facts.

As we all know America with its "right to bear arms" mentality has a big problem with gun related crime and as a result 28,874 people were killed in firearm related deaths in 1999 alone.

Since the gun laws were introduced in Australia from July 96 there has been a decrease of almost 30% in the number of homicides caused by firearms. The Australian rate of gun death per 100,000 population remains one-fifth that of the United States.

If we all start carrying guns to protect ourselves from the extremely remote chance that we may stumble across an Ivan Millat type nutterin the bush, then it won't be long before the statistics are up there with the US. Its no secret that America's problems stem from the sheer number of guns in circulation and the fact that they are so easily obtained. If you feel you need guns to "protect your family when out bush" then your'e better off staying home as your thousands of times more likely to kill them in your car getting there. I personally have only had one incident where I felt threatened while in the bush and that was by a rowdy bunch of guys who started taking pot shots around the camp with a 22 rifle after a beer swilling session (Limeburners flat, NSW). While I am sure they had no intention of shooting us, we sure had a restless night knowing there were a bunch of tanked up guys loose on the camp with a gun. Perhaps if I had a gun I could of confronted them ! I'm sure they would have been scared then and put theres away?? i'm also sure there are a lot of sad arse's sitting behind bars right now wishing they had never set eyes on a gun either.
AnswerID: 4118

Follow Up By: Bob - Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00
Mark
you make about four excellent points (USA is gun crazy, gun incidents with nutters are rarer than car fatalities, most situations are caused by irresponsible use of guns, faced with an armed person a gun isn't going to help you anyway). It seems it is irrational fear which drives people to want to carry guns, yet it is the carrying of guns by others that creates the situation they fear. Unchecked, we would end up with the same environment as the USA. Instead of the bush being a safe and friendly place to be, it would be like the 'wild west'. I suspect that most interest in carrying guns on bush trips comes from those who do not have a legitimate reason for having a gun but see the trip to the bush as a good opportunity to get a few shots off. It isn't.
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FollowupID: 1764

Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00
Mark your comment about America having a gun problem, I think you have avoided mentioning
what their real problem is -- not the number of guns but the type of guns they own such as hand guns.
Also you mention "Since the gun laws were introduced in Australia from July 96 there has been a decrease
of almost 30% in the number of homicides caused by firearms" where did you get that figure from as I must admit I find
that very hard to believe especially considering that the majority of all shooting's involve illegal firearms anyway.
As to your one personal threatening incident do you really think that this is the sort of situation people are referring to
when they comment that a firearm is handy to have for protection, to even suggest that you would confront drunken
yobo's with a gun is totally irresponsible, your statement " if you had a gun you could have confronted them! I'm sure
they would have been scared and put there's away", you mean to say that without a gun you were too scared to approach
them and ask them to stop shooting but if you had a gun you would have confronted them it ?? - Mark this explains why you are
afraid of firearms and I certainly agree that YOU SHOULD NOT own a firearm but please don't put all gun owners in the same
basket as you - I certainly don't see having a firearm with me as a means of boosting my confidence nor do I lack common
sense.
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FollowupID: 1765

Follow Up By: Mark - Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00
Robert,
Thanks for your reply. The figures I quoted were official and published in the
Australian Crime - Facts and Figures 1999. Australian Institute of Criminology. Canberra, Oct 1999.
With regard to my own experience of course I would not of approached these guys with or without a gun I was merely getting a point across that having my own gun for protection would not have made me feel any more secure in this particular situation. Perhaps I should have made myself clearer as in my statement " Perhaps if I had a gun I could of confronted them ! I'm sure they would have been scared then and put theres away??" my point was yeah right! sure they would have backed down and left it at that. With firearms involved things can turn nasty and get quickly out of hand was my point. Anyway you are entitled to your opinion, but I am sticking to my belief that the general public carrying guns around for protection will only make matters worse. Let the facts & figures speak for themselves.
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FollowupID: 1770

Follow Up By: Goran - Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00
Yeah , Mark . Let's take all legal firearms from law obiding citizens . That way the only people with guns will be the criminals . Let's pass the new laws forbiding traveling with firearms to let any scumbag and lunatic know that travelers are easy and fair game . While we are at it , we could also forbid the use of self defence inside your home too . What is the diference , right ? We should advise people not to resist crime themselves and submit to murder , rape and robbery . What a society we would have than . Pure heaven for criminals . Maybe it already is that .
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FollowupID: 1771

Follow Up By: Goran - Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 at 00:00
Yeah , Mark . Let's take all legal firearms from law obiding citizens . That way the only people with guns will be the criminals . Let's pass the new laws forbiding traveling with firearms to let any scumbag and lunatic know that travelers are easy and fair game . While we are at it , we could also forbid the use of self defence inside your home too . What is the diference , right ? We should advise people not to resist crime themselves and submit to murder , rape and robbery . What a society we would have than . Pure heaven for criminals . Maybe it already is that .
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FollowupID: 1772

Follow Up By: Robert - Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 at 00:00
Mark with statistics unless all the facts are presented then you can get a distorted view , it can be a case
of displaying the statistics to show only what you want and hiding the whole story, for instance the current affair
program Today Tonight produced a story about 4wd's being unsafe on the roads quoting the following statistic from the
Australian Transport Safety Bureau - "There was an 85 per cent increase in 4WD crash fatalities from 1990 to 1998"
Now I'm sure Mark you would agree there are a lot of other facts not mentioned and without all the other facts this one
statistic is rather misleading. This is why I am sceptical about the statistics you quote from the Australian Crime -Facts
and Figures, especially as what I have already stated in an earlier posting - The vast majority of shootings reported in
the news involve ILLEGAL FIREARMS.
Mark no one here is advocating the general public arming themselves, that's silly what we are talking about are those who
wish to own firearms being able to use them for what they were intended without being persecuted, much the same as 4wd
owners want to be able to own and use a 4wd without being harassed by the small car crowd who don't like
4wd's or big cars and think everyone should have to drive the same as them.
Yes I agree with you that a firearm produced in an argument could lead to a nasty situation which is why I pointed out
in my first reply to you it is totally irresponsible even suggesting that you would produce a firearm in an argument etc, and
I'm sure you are well aware that no one here is even suggesting that's what they have a firearm for.
As to having a firearm for protection in isolated places lets look at the following scenario:
Your driving along a road and for whatever reason a guy overtakes you and forces you to swerve off the road, your vehicle
crashes and isn't drivable - your stuck!, the other driver stops, get outs of his vehicle with an illegal firearm and fires at you and
your family.
Tell me Mark what would you prefer to be thinking "Thank God I don't have a firearm - they have all been banned" or "
Thank God I have my firearm with me", I know what situation I would prefer to be in, and no this is not a far fetched
situation, as someone already pointed out you would have to be in la la land if you think this could never happen.
Now I know that your going to respond with that you should stay home if your a person who considers what could possibly
happen but the sad fact is these days your no safer at home anyway, and yes it is a real possibility that you could get killed in
a car accident which is why I would never drive the small dinky cars some people drive these day, I don't have the attitude
"IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN TO ME". Finally yes Mark I am entitled to my opinion and yes I respect yours - the main point is that
something shouldn't be banned just because I don't like it mentality , it should be based on common sense , it's the same with
those who wish to ban 4wd's unless they have any valid reasons, then 4wd's shouldn't be banned just because they don't like
them.
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FollowupID: 1777

Follow Up By: Mark - Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 at 00:00
Robert,
With the scenario you made up I might well be wishing I had some means of defending myself against a gunman, I also agree that I would be living in La La land if I thought this could never happen. But I choose not to carry a gun for protection for reasons that I could go on all night about,I could also make up many scenario's of could happen if a gun was stolen and ended up in the wrong hands. You mention "no one here is advocating the general public arming themselves" well isn't this is what we are going on about or should you perhaps have preferential treatment and not be treated as general public. I can see your point that if only you are carrying the gun then its not so much an issue as its only one gun after all and it won't change things too much eh! well i'm afraid its this kind of narrow minded thinking that creates the problems in the first place. The reasons laws are made is so all abide by them without exception, the very reason there is a law against carrying guns for self protection in Australia. In a nutshell my argument is the more guns in circulation the higher the chance they will fall in the wrong hands or be used in heat of the moment disputes. I have nothing against licensed gun's being used for the bona fide reasons, in fact I have done a bit of pistol target shooting myself.
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FollowupID: 1780

Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00
Mark, yes I agree a firearm could be stolen, same as your car could be stolen and used to kill someone , but more to the point
those who you referred to as "the wrong hands" are the people who use illegal firearms , I have mentioned several
times now that the criminal element are using illegal firearms, a point you obviously don't won't to acknowledge, I wonder why?
Also the police have had a number of firearms stolen from them in the past, that being pistols, the worst kind of firearm a criminal
could have , do you also want the police not to have firearms?
The big question really is what have the tougher guns laws achieved? 1. have they stopped criminals from having handguns,
automatic high powered rifles etc - NO, 2. have they brought about a decrease in murders - No, as they now just use knifes if
they don't use a firearm, 3. are they creating a situation where only the criminals have guns and the honest citizens don't - YES.
Mark your quite aware no one here is advocating the general public should arm themselves with a firearms ( I did not say that
you should purchase a firearm for protection, I said that you are safer with a firearm) we are merely defending our right
and the general public's right to decide for themselves whether they wish to own a firearm or not, that's not
wanting preferential treatment, that's not wanting dictatorship.
In terms of the heat of the moment disputes( I believe in most cases if an illegal firearm isn't used they they use knifes just a
effectively in these situations anyway),
the most sensible guns law we should have is that in domestic disputes , divorce etc that
any firearms owned by either party should be confiscated by the police and held by them for say 6 months to a year and
not returned if the situation is still hostile, I could be wrong but I know in Victoria the police haven't done this in the past and I'm not aware
they do this now.

Mark it really appears to me that those who wish to ban firearms are doing so simply because shooting is something they are
not interested in, if you are going to use the argument that firearms should be banned because it will save lives then tell me
how many people are killed by drink driving - a lot more than by firearms owned by ordinary citizens isn't it , so why
aren't those who are anti gun not also pushing for banning alcohol??, why aren't they pushing to ban the dangerously small
cars being sold to the public??, why aren't they complaining about it being legal to sell tobacco??
Would it be because they are like the mentality of the anti 4wd crowd - ban it because it is something their not interested
in. I wonder who is really the narrow minded one!
More relevant to what this forum is really about (travelling Australia etc) in terms of a equipment to take I think a firearm is
very useful item to carry as it makes it far more safer and humane to destroy injured animals, allows one to shoot vermin
such as foxes and feral cats, shoot rabbits for a meal and finally provides some protection.
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FollowupID: 1785

Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00
Mark - Something I forgot to mention and suprised no one else has is that in Sweden Gun ownership is a mandatory and
Gun crime in Switzerland is virtually non-existent. I wonder what your thoughts are on this.
Cheers Robert

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FollowupID: 1787

Follow Up By: Mark - Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00
Robert,

I think you are still getting the wrong impression. If you read through my previous post you will find that I am not opposed to guns in general just against people carrying them around for protection as they do in the US. You keep mentioning that only illegal firearms cause the problems, well maybe, but my point is if people are leaving guns lying around in cars etc and they end up getting stolen and used by a crim then they are being used illegaly.
On your point on guns being mandatory in Sweden, I asked my wife who is Swedish and although her folks have a shotgun for their farm she has never heard of them being mandatory, and was not forced to have one in her 29 years of living there.
Anyway, I think we have both got our points across and obviously we have differing opinions, for me i'm happy with the current gun laws and will continue to travel without a gun. You will no doubt continue to do as you have always done.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 1788

Follow Up By: Mark - Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 at 00:00
Sorry Goran, I'm not even going to bother replying to your post (when the hell did they let you out)
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FollowupID: 1789

Follow Up By: Robert - Friday, Jun 14, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 14, 2002 at 00:00
Mark you stated in an earlier posting "Carrying a gun in a vehicle is creating an avenue for the gun to end up in the wrong hands"
and now you state "I am not opposed to guns in general" - that's a bit ambiguous! tell me how can you use a gun for shooting etc
and not carry it in the car. But now I think in an effort to support your opinion you make the statement "if people are leaving guns
lying around in cars etc", your trying to make it seem that people who carry firearms are casually leaving a firearms lying in full
view for everyone to see and steal - You know quite well nobody does this, that would be as
irresponsible as saying you would approach drunken yobo's with a firearm.
You also stated " end up getting stolen and used by a crim then they are being used illegally" - yes of course if your using a stolen
legal firearm you would be breaking the law, no one would dispute that - what's your point?? , the point I make is that criminals
aren't using stolen legal firearms from citizens, they are using illegal (banned) firearms such as handguns etc, that's a fact not
a maybe. I have responded to all your points, but you have avoided responding to a number of my points - the FACT that
the vast majority of firearm related crime is committed using illegal (banned firearms) not stolen firearms
and it would be a very rare event indeed that a camper/traveller has a firearm stolen and it is used to kill someone, so what is
stopping campers/travellers from having a firearm with them going to achieve??, what about the police, they have handguns stolen do you
want the police unarmed?? and yet I assume your happy that people can buy alcohol and smoke tobacco?? which kill more
people per year than legal firearms or do you also want alcohol severely controlled as well?? and don't tell me that family of
someone killed by a drunk driver aren't as upset/shocked/angry as someone killed by a gun!
Perhaps Mark and to all the others against firearms that we haven't met any nasty situations when travelling/camping because
the criminals/nutters don't know if we are one of the public who has a firearm or not, perhaps this explains the NT couple being
attacked , after all who is the least likely not to be armed travelling the outback - Overseas tourists????
Mark the main difference between your opinion and mine is your opinion is about telling others what they should or shouldn't be
allowed to do based purely on your belief not based any undeniable evidence and my opinion is that the individual should be
allowed to decide for themselves whether they wish to take a firearm with them when travelling/camping in view of there being
no undeniable evidence that supports we would all be better off with firearms banned or tougher laws imposed, I would say one
opinion is called Freedom and other one is called Dictatorship.

In Sweden Gun ownership is apparently mandatory for all adult males up 50 - 55 years of age, I suggest you and others
read http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ae771eb4adb.htm and http://www.wa.gov.au/cof/guncntrl/index.html it makes for
some interesting reading on gun control.

Cheers
Robert
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FollowupID: 1799

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