So sad about the new Ford Everest.

Submitted: Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 13:49
ThreadID: 130438 Views:16270 Replies:19 FollowUps:35
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5 years ago it was that in post 81503 I examined all the available options for my new car requirements and in a close call brought a car not quite as good as the one I was replacing but able to get there with a few electric axe modifications.

Ultimately I got my 4800 Patrol (the last made) for around $35k less than my 2nd choice, a 200 series.
This cost was a major motive for me as I considered the cars about equal.

Now that its time to again consider a new car I find in useful to examine that post.
Checking the assumptions then made against what has happened in the last 5 years.


Over that 5 years ,the price of fuel has actually gone down, interest rates have halved, there are no GU petrol Patrols to be had.
But my 2nd choice then, the 200 series cruiser is still here, much the same car and actually about $3k cheaper, and I still have the $35k I saved then.

For many the ute configuration has replaced wagons for an affordable 4wd, but leaving the wagon configuration short of models.

I have long awaited the release of the new Ford Everset, a wagon variation of the BT50's, that some friends have.
The Bt50/Ford Rangers work well, if a little stiff and I have been able to test then well on our 4wding property.

So it was with some hope that I recently examined the new release, but I'm afraid it left me disappointed.

Basically , despite its size and appearance its not a full size wagon.

For us a major requirement is to be able so sleep inside the car , but while the Ranger utes are big enough (not in dual cabs) the new ford Everest has succumbed to modern styling and actually got a bit narrower in the rear bodywork.
So no chance of a standard double mattress going in.
To make matters worse the seats do not fold flat to form a sleeping base.
Removing the seats leaves you with all sorts of protrusions unlike the Patrols floor which can easily be turned into a large bed base.

Sitting in the front the high bonnet nose may look tough but its really lousy to see over it. Even the front seats are close together despite the width across the doors being large.

Next surprize was the "Blue liquid" container.
This car now relies on a small 2nd fuel tank that holds 18lt of Blue Urea compound , and this liquid is injected into the exhaust to reduce emissions. It lasts for over 10000kms but is another thing you don't need in the bush and it you run out the engine reduces your output power till its re-filled.

There are good points, like more car like feel and finally rear coils but with its slightly reduced power (147kw now 143kw), and major weight increase (now 2400kg), and only 3 tonne towing I'm afraid my dream is over as far as its concerned.

Gee you would think they could at least do a VW to fix the emissions !
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 14:16

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 14:16
Gday Robin
Have you tried the volkswagon wagon, ? They might be big enough to sleep in.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 16:09

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 16:09
Hi Murray

Yep, you could sleep in them, although headroom is lacking, but that is only one criteria for me and VW have to many other issues for my requirements.

Actually we went up rocky track yesterday , and I will be at someone's who owns one to-morrow in Dandy South - maybe I should ask him again to lend me it for a test drive !
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 17:44

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 17:44
Wasn't aware VW made an offroad wagon ??
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 19:12

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 19:12
Ever heard of a Touareg.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 22:22

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 22:22
Heard of a Touareg, but not an offroad wagon !!

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 23:03

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 23:03
Just as offroad as an off the dealership floor 200 series.

Is a full on 4wd wagon.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 23:30

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 23:30
Really ?? I'll keep my eye out for one next time on the tele track !!
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 08:07

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 08:07
They are a very capable car but the price and lack of accessories such as a snorkel lets them down. You don't see many (any?) on the tracks it's true but they will do anything an Amarok will do if you don't mind bush pin striping a luxury car. No low range since around 2010 but an 8 speed auto similar config to the auto Amarok but not the same box. Personally I would look elsewhere for an off road beast.

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 16:34

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 16:34
The CEO of Nissan Australia said that when the Y61 comes to an end in Australia in 18 months, 4x4 Nissan buyers will be very happy with a Navara Twin Cab. From what I see on the forums is that a lot of buyers have tried twin cabs and hate them, stating tight conditions in the cab, even though they have four doors and a small tub. I think he would be saying what he wants to hear. The patrol will continue to be built for some countries with 4.2 TDI and 3.0 L common rail engines and also for Military purposes. So if you want a large petrol wagon, Y62 is for you and if you want a Diesel, you will be very happy with a Navara. Nissan told us so!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 20:25

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 20:25
Hi Michael

I believe everything Nissan saysof course but I can't ever see a Y62 in my life , it just have sales and parts availability even at local Nissan dealers so no way out there.
The Y61 really is a good package and its little things like low floor height due to rear door wheeel mounts etc etc, so what to do !

Common sense says 200 series is now better value than it was 5 years ago, its well proven and now will have 10% better economy, but I keep looking at the 3 C/Vs my neighbour has broken (admittedly he is the sort to wait till a wheel spins before punching in a locker or 2.)


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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:15

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:15
Robin not sure about your neighbour, but on the Land cruiser forum where there are literally over 200 200 users, Broken CV joints are almost unheard of.

he must be doing something wrong. I just quickly searched and found no instances since 2008. People who have concerns have installed a diff lowering kit which is about $1000. I'm sure I would find a few instances if I searched harder but I can't recall any.

I think he must be doing something terribly wrong.



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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:16

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:16
Oops make that 2000 200 users.

Oh for edit.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 14:38

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 14:38
That was broken CV's on 2 of his 200 series BooBook , he was the one who left his first 200 on the Canning - never to see it again .

He is now leaving the area due to council not approving his plans , you could say he is a tad headstrong !
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 18:44

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 18:44
Hi Robin, is in't great talking with car salesman. they think you are a wood duck and they are gods gift to humanity. As you do these days, you do research on the internet before you go anywhere near a dealer. You soon realise that you know more about the vehicle you are interested in than they do. Because I intend to put after market wheels on the vehicle I buy I want to know the wheel offset. I can not find this info on any of the manufacturers sites so I ask the salesman. Most do not know what I am talking about so I have to try and explain which is difficult to a person who is a sandwich short of a picnic. Once they know what offset is I get a whole heap of excuses as to why they do not know the answer and they will have to refer it to their technical department and get back to me, which they rarely do.
So what are you going to do? A 200 series of keep the Patrol.
I am looking for a kingcab chassis with the Ford Ranger the leader at the moment. When I get back from Perth in a couple of weeks I will start looking in earnest.
Have you driven the new Ranger or BT50? If so what did you think?
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 20:18

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 20:18
Yep driven the current model a bit (BT50) fitted with outback coil/leaf aftermarket springs , one was away with us over last 3 weeks.

It rubbed a hole in heater hose right on top of MT IVE , I found a decent self tapper and we smeared it with shoo goo and rammed it home with a bit of tap over outside to hold it while shoo goo set.

Its still in there today.

Peter from coffee club has 2 yo one (approx) but it blew up , and haven't got full story yet.

My analysis was they were best of current crop with a few fixes.

So I was quite upset that in the flesh the wagon version was smaller than it looks.

My mates are now looking at the extended cab version with can carry 2nd row passengers (just) and have possibility of long canopy which could allow sleeping on the tray.

I like to change cars so every hose etc is new each few years but its looking tricky to chose Chris - if I had to jump I'd stay with Patrol.

As I drove back into Melb I saw gas at the unbelieveable price of 39c but question is "For how long" ?



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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 23:58

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 23:58
it "blew up"?
Or it broke down?
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 21:58

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 21:58
G'day Robin

Geez you've got a couple big decisions to make in your life - what new car to buy and what to do with 80 rolls of toilet paper lol


Hope you choose wisely


All the best

Gazz

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:55

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:55
Your right Gazz, I'd better make sure any new car is big enough to hold at least 80 rolls, since I'm getting low on fuel again !

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Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 22:54

Monday, Sep 28, 2015 at 22:54
Robin the 200 series ticks your boxes. It's a brilliant rig in the diesel guise. Personally I also think Toyota is better built and offers soild reliability. You could sleep in luxury too!
The Ford Ranger is a great rig but perhaps unproven over time? If you talk Ranger you most also consider the new Hilux in the same sentence. The Wagon vs Ute is a separate argument/comparison.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 13:00

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 13:00
It probably does Terra and it looks like this years version is even better, but its hard to get a car like that and then hollow it out.

I guess I was hoping that the Everest with its car like specs would get away from the short travel skittish rear end that most lightly laden utes have , and didn't count on modern styling that makes rear of Everest wagon narrower than its mid section.

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Reply By: Sigmund - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 07:58

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 07:58
Other wagon options are the Challenger and the Isuzu MU-X. Both pretty capable vehicles. With the 2nd and 3rd row of seats out of the Isuzu you'd have to put a floor in for a level sleeping platform.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:28

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:28
Thanks Sigmund , but Challenger is not as big as Everest inside - of course if my wife ever gets sick of camping well .......
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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:01

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:01
This conundrum is a bit like euthanising the family pet when it's time.

Just DO what you have always latently wanted to do, but have been terrified of being seen as a 'seditious traitor' to the 'King'.

Buy a brand new 200 VX and you will sleep much better. Especially on your double mattress.

DD
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:31

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:31
Well DD I not sure I would sleep easy , except perhaps if you loaned me your credit card for the VX .

Remember what Plato said , I think therefore I am !

Of course he didn't say how to get out of that endless loop.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 14:00

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 14:00
Actually it was Descartes but carry on ;-)
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 14:09

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 14:09
I think Plato only thought it, he didn't come out and say it
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 14:24

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 14:24
Right, my first thought was Soccratees - but I couldn't figure out how to spell that !
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 15:16

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 15:16
I thought (therefore I was!) that Socrates wrote nothing. Plato and others wrote everything that's attributed to him. But that's an old and crumbling thought (matching an old and fragmented being).
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:03

Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:03
I'm with you, Sigmund. Scio Me, Nihil Scire.
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Reply By: Member - wicket - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:33

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:33
Hey Robin
This one would fit the bill............tonto
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:36

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:36
Gee with that you culd sell tickets to trips and hence fund the VX DD says I should get !
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:32

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:32
Wow, what a great concept. First onto the market with a practical camper setup based on this should do very well.
Paul B Kalgoorlie

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Reply By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 15:36

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 15:36
Hi Robin. I know you are not a fan of Troopies but there are a couple of things that could suit you. There is room for a 'menage a trois', it will see you out mechanically and it will have resale value. Irrespective of this you could consider the 200 series and stop wrestling with the logic and just enjoy yourself. The rest of us with toyotas are guilt free!! Cheers
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:50

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 17:50
Hi Leigh

It a subtle thing but getting it right is not as easy as first seems.

We spent a lot of time getting the GU Patrols right and some little things make the difference, for example a troppy is usually entered from the back and one climbs along the bed and this is not as good as entering via side door and swinging around and even then the troppy is a lot narrower.

Now you could do the same as our Patrol with a 100 or 200 series but even then you find that the floor height is to high for a natural entry (due to underslung wheelspace provision) and past that the cruiser door arrangement means that the lower section folds out towards you - not a problem if you want a table there but a pain for getting over as it makes reaching inside via back doors to long for many.



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Reply By: Kevin G6 - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 20:27

Tuesday, Sep 29, 2015 at 20:27
Seems to be a lot of trouble to be able to sleep in a vehicle have you considered a swag?

Kev
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:28

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:28
A swag that can be thrown into back of a dual cab is certainly quite viable and good choice for some Kevin , but not for us.
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Reply By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 00:06

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 00:06
Disaster!
Why not get a mattress 50mm narrower, then you wont have to lose sleep over it?
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Reply By: Sigmund - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 15:21

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 15:21
Don't most of the wagon forms of utes have IS rears? So that means they have the strut wells that narrow the floor.

FWIW the floor on my MU-X is about a metre between wells. That width does me and the missus in a hike tent OK but clearly YMMV.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 17:07

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 17:07
Correction : they have struts with or without live axles.
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Reply By: patrolin - Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 23:19

Wednesday, Sep 30, 2015 at 23:19
Hi Robin
I have followed your adventures with the 4.8 for a few years including the many tests you have conducted with the vehicle.

I like you was after a large wagon about 2 years ago.

I ended up with a Nissan y62. To date I have clocked up 103 000km in 18 mths with no issues.

It's proven a great touring and towing vehicle.

As well its proven to handle serious mountain 4wd with ease and only recently I have given it a serious work out in the sandy tracks and dunes around Pinnaroo with no problems.

And there is no issue with blue add liquid or other pollution system risks many of the current diesels have.

There's plenty of sleeping room in the wagon and the current discounted prices of 55 to 65k make them an attractive big vehicle option.

Take one for a drive and get a feeling of the power on tap from the 5.6 lit motor.

John b
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:14

Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:14
Thats a good suggestion John and power and performance and size would certainly not be issues. Also I gather it uses no more fuel.

I try to think of why not actually, and I guess that fear of breakdowns and repairs on a rare type car out in bush would be an issue - but I think truth is that as we get older we rely, and can afford to rely on service centers.

I still haven't taken any of 3 Patrols I have had new back to Nissan for service , I'm not so sure I would ignore warranty like this on next car.

I hope yours has proven to be relativly trouble free.

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Reply By: Candace S. - Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:08

Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:08
Interesting...diesel vehicles in Oz now have the DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid--that's what the urea is called in the US) tanks on them? Are they a requirement going forward? For all diesels?
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Follow Up By: patrolin - Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 09:19

Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 09:19
Im not 100% sure but I thought the new model LC may have this requirement.

However in light of the VW issue I reckon many more diesels will have the blue tank if they are genuinely going to reach required emission levels.

John b
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 09:49

Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 09:49
Hi Candace ,John

Apparently the inside story that is emerging with VW is that while DEF is a great way to reduce emissions , hit with cost and time pressures some VW staff decided to use the easy way and just computer control engines to clean specs whenever their were no steering / movement sensors operating and they could do it in USA because they rely on manufacturers word rather than European requirement for independant testing.

It appears that more diesels will get the treatment and VW may even retro fit affected cars with Urea tanks in the boot.
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Reply By: patrolin - Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 17:09

Thursday, Oct 01, 2015 at 17:09
Hi Robin
To date I've clocked up 103 000 kms in 18 months trouble free.

About 65 000 of that towing 2.5 t caravan. Only one recall in that time to check a fuel line. Thankfully no recalls for EMS issues as per Jeeps.

John b
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Reply By: fisho64 - Friday, Oct 02, 2015 at 00:47

Friday, Oct 02, 2015 at 00:47
maybe you should be informing the manufacturers in advance of your requirements?
-Roll angle greater than a Prado
-Large thirsty petrol engine
-Unpopular so the price is cheap (Nissan 4.8)
-Width to accommodate a double mattress
Not sure if I missed anything ?:-)

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Oct 03, 2015 at 19:23

Saturday, Oct 03, 2015 at 19:23
Gee that sound just like the new Nissan Y62 - better rush in before they sell the 10 they have reserved for 2015 sales.

Oops forgot the live axles - that could be an issue !
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Reply By: Winner W - Friday, Oct 02, 2015 at 07:52

Friday, Oct 02, 2015 at 07:52
My PX Ranger is still a pleasure to drive after 100000k of hard work and I planned to get the Everest to replace my wife's faultless 6yo Santa Fe but the adblue thing and price of the Everest made me decide on a 2016 Pajero for our needs.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 21:12

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 21:12
Robin the new Toyota Fortuner could be right down your alley?

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/2015-toyota-fortuner-review-first-drive-36436
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 22:29

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 22:29
Hi

Doubt it - its smaller (albeit marginally - externally at least) than the Ranger.

Fortuna - 4795mm (L), 1855mm (W), 1790mm (H), 2750mm (WB)

Ranger - 4892mm (L), 1860mm (W), 1837mm (H), 2850mm (WB)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 22:42

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 22:42
The comparison is not with the Ranger but with the Everest which was Robin's original topic. Give or take a few mm here and there the Fortuner had considerable advantages over the Everest according to the review I posted. The idea was to throw another option in the mix.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 22:59

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 22:59
Apologies,

My mistake, please exchange the word "Ranger" with the word "Everest"..numbers are the same.

Fortuna - 4795mm (L), 1855mm (W), 1790mm (H), 2750mm (WB)

Everest - 4892mm (L), 1860mm (W), 1837mm (H), 2850mm (WB)

Just pointing out the Fortuna would appear to be smaller that the Everest. I think one of RMs major requirements is a car he and partner can sleep in + pack gear (no roof rack allowed). Just another part of the "mix". Aren't I allowed to play?

Prado is bigger than both, but you wont get RM into one of those in a fit as they are too dangerous :) Couldn't see him in a Fortuna just out of principle.

Cheers
Greg


I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 23:38

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 23:38
Just spotted this link elsewhere . . .

New Ford Everest SUV catches fire during a test drive, destroyed by the blaze
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 14:40

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 14:40
I did see that Les , and have already been asked if its another Jeep !
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