Man missing east of Laverton WA

Ron / All...

Responses like this raise my blood pressure!

Let's wait until this chap is found, and is safe and sound before pronouncing any judgement on his actions. We know nothing of the circumstances that has put him in this situation or what preparation he made or didn’t make…

If you, or others still feel the need to "flog" him after getting his version of the story then that will be your prerogative. But you know what they say in the classics, those without guilt can cast the first stone…

But crikey, let's get the poor bloke out safely and back to his family first!

Baz – The Landy

Heck being out there lost or injured is beyond imagining. Hope he gets out.

Sorry Ron I'm with Baz on this one - lets get more info before we jump to conclusions.
I posted to create awareness at how easily things can go wrong.

Imagine how bad the family must be feeling - lets give them hope and our support. What happened etc can come later.

There's always the chance he could have just dropped from a "medical event", I guess, and he isn't lost.
But the media reports the Police have stated, he has no food or water, and to my way of thinking and planning, that is just plain stupid to walk off on a hunt on foot, without either. Particularly when it's hanging around 38 deg out there, as it is today.

I agree Get out more but lets be careful what we say here - imagine the family reading this post they are upset enough with people writing about bodies, we don't know what has happened yet so lets be positive.
The search is continuing
search

G.O. - Yes, that's what makes the whole deal here, even more puzzling.
If the bloke was armed with a rifle, you'd expect he'd be firing shots to gain attention. That is, if he had enough ammo left, of course.
The fact there have been no shots heard is rather ominous.

Cheers

Thanks for the update Ron, this is indeed excellent news.

And as you say kudos to all involved in not giving up - I bet his family will give him a 'kick in the butt' over this incident but they would be trilled at the outcome.

Lets hope we get to hear more about this remarkable survival story and not as get outmore said often happens
‘… the report gets a few lines tucked away at the bottom of the paper’.

Gee, I couldn't imagine what eating black ants would do for you. They're full of formic acid, they're as rank-tasting as you can get! I couldn't imagine you'd get any worthwhile moisture from them.
I know the honey ants are O.K., but they're a different kettle of fish to regular black ants.
Personally, I would've been sipping, or trying to collect dew, from leaves overnight.

A simple plastic bag tied to the end of leafy branches will also get you some moisture from condensation - provided you've thought to stuff one in a pocket..
I certainly wouldn't go into the bush with just thongs, a t-shirt and shorts. He obviously ambled off on a casual basis, thinking he'd only go a few hundred metres and then return within an hour or two - but in that featureless country, you can get lost very very quickly.
They talk about the thick bush of Tasmania that will see you lost within a few metres of a road - but I can tell you, the sparse featureless bush of the interior of Australia is also a place where you can get lost, just as fast as in a Tasmanian jungle.

The old man got lost in the upper Murchison in the 1930's, as relative "new chum".
He was out fencing on his own, and followed what he thought was the fences back to camp - but he took a wrong turn and took the wrong fence.
He then decided to cut through the scrub, but ended up completely lost.

The old bloke who he was working with, was 70 yrs old and a very experienced bushman.
He quickly realised the old man was lost and set to collecting firewood for a signal fire.
What is amazing, is this old bloke actually climbed a big tree multiple times and set the signal fire in a fork of the tree about 6 or 8 metres off the ground!

The old man saw the fire and initially thought it was a big star. Then he realised it was a fire and started towards it.
He stumbled into camp in the early hours of the morning, just a little worse for wear - and he often said he owed his life to that old bushmans rapid action and amazing efforts.

Cheers, Ron.

Sorry Ron

Are you not the same person who posted the first response criticising this gentleman?

"What kind of badly-organised fool goes out into the bush, hunting or prospecting in the Outback, on foot, without carrying some food and water, a PLB or even a small compass?"

It is typical of some of the ill informed posts that appear on forums such as this. Perhaps as Phil said - we should have been thinking positively, offering support to his family and praying for his safe return. Instead, we get people commenting on presumed facts and pontificating on what they would or wouldn't do.

Until the full details and facts are made public, I think it can be said that this mans survival and ultimate safe return to his family is testament to his many years as a "bushman" and perhaps the positive Karma being spread by the likes of Phil.

There are any number of reasons why he should have ended up in the situation he found himself - to survive 6 days in that environment is skill NOT luck.

I know many mechanics who's vehicles have broken down and have required help to get them back on the track. Does this make them bad or poorly skilled/equiped mechanics deserving of negative comment?

Cheers

Anthony

Sorry Anthony, I am going to be the Ray Hadley or John Laws of this thread.

Foggerdy deserves a good "butt-kicking" for his casual, careless and indisciplined approach to going bush on foot.

I have been around the W.A. bush for over 50 years, and I'm very familiar with all the W.A. Goldfields country, and I have spent plenty of time working and living in that bush, and being on foot in that bush.

I have 2 rules that I abide by religiously that have ensured my survival for over 50 years in the W.A. bush.

1. Don't get lost.
2. Take adequate steps, involving a degree of careful planing and forethought, when heading bush on foot, that ensures you don't break Rule 1.

There is much media chatter about how Foggerdy was a wonderful "skilled bushman".
IMO, a "skilled bushman" treats the Australian bush with great respect, for the killer that it is - and takes adequate steps to prevent a situation that can lead to the bushmans rapid death.

1. Foggerdy took off on foot into the bush, beyond visual references, with inadequate clothing and footwear for the conditions expected to be encountered.
2. He took no water or food with him.
3. He took no simple direction-finding equipment with him. Even a cheap Chinese pocket compass points North.
3. He advised no-one of his plans, nor did he advise anyone of what to do if he did not show up at an appointed time and place.
4. He had a rifle, but apparently didn't fire it to alert searchers. This could be because he ran out of ammo. That is a major error in planning. You keep ammo in reserve for emergencies.
5. He took no matches, lighter or any firelighting equipment.
6. He didn't stop and stay in the one place, when he first realised he was lost. A constantly-moving target only makes the searchers job harder.
7. He failed to construct a large, visual, stand-out SOS message in a clear area, that could be seen from the air, when he was still capable of doing so. Just broken branches formed in an arrow in a clearing is enough.

He did eventually follow some life-saving techniques such as preserving energy and water loss and by trying to get some nourishment.

But overall, Foggerdy deserves a good "butt-kicking" because of his casual approach to going bush that caused large sums of taxpayers and others money to be expended on the search for him.

He's no different to blokes who put to sea with dodgy batteries, bilge pumps that have major problems, and with inadequate communications and safety equipment - who have to be rescued because of their slack attitude towards sea safety.

Both the bush in Australia and the sea around it, are constant killers-in-waiting, ever ready to snatch away the careless, the undisciplined, and the ill-prepared, who go out into them, half-cocked.

No doubt, Mr Foggerdy will now be in receipt of huge sums of money for selling his story. The European and English tabloids love "Australian-defies-death-in-the-Outback" stories.
I trust, that unlike many others, he will donate some of that money to SAR organisations and the civvy searchers who gave up their time to look for him.

I will not post any further comment on this thread, I have said all I want to say on the episode.

Cheers,

Ron.

Ron

I can see you have much in common with the "shock jocks" of the radio airwaves. As they say, if the cap fits, wear it…

Only one question (asked rhetorically - given you don't intend to comment further).

Are you speculating on what happened, or do you have first-hand knowledge? The former being a distinct trait of shock-jocks, the latter being something they usually lack "in spades".

And can I leave you with this one thought on perfection. “Never fear it, because you’ll never achieve it…”

The Landy

Ron

You could write a survival book based on your 2 simple rules of survival!

While I agree with the points you make with regards to the need for preparation and planning, you again make a series of presumptions based on your own pontificated experiences and presumed knowledge of the facts.

This man has not had a chance to respond to his situation. We should all allow him this opportunity before becoming judgemental.

In the fullness of time, the facts will become evident. It may be that these facts reveal his inadequecies. It may also reveal that the skills he possesses may have in fact saved his life.

What is already known is:

1) he survived 6 days when most wouldn't last 6 hours.
2) he sought shelter from the heat of the day (conserved energy and moisture).
3) he moved during the cool of the night (conserved energy and moisture).
4) he sought sustenance from what was available (black ants).
5) he maintained a psychological commitment to survival - perhaps the hardest of all to maintain.
6) he had a plan - he was looking for the road.

Did he do all the right things - not for me to say - I haven't been made aware of ALL the facts

Regardless - it is a fantastic miracle of survival that a father/husband/brother has been returned to his family and 12 year old son.

Now - I am going to stuff a plastic bag in my pocket and a box of matches in my shirt and my compass on my wrist. I have notified the SES of my intentions and I'm heading of with the dog for a walk on the bridle trail to get over your diatribe - hopefully I have prepared enough to make it home.

Cheers

Anthony

The guy survived on his fat reserves not black ants - if there were no ants he would have still survived doing whatever else he did.

You are technically correct Gary.

The nutritional value of the ants was more than likely very low. However, the psychological effect of actually eating them was more beneficial than the calorific benefit of the ants.

The greatest demon in any survival situation are the psychological ones. Self doubt, self blame for your situation, not knowing if your actions are hindering or helping your outcomes can be more detrimental than a lack of physical resources.

By "eating" ants, you will alleviate one concern that stands between you and survival - the need for food. If your mind tells you "you are eating and are therefore satisfying your hunger" you think you are doing something positive.

Even if you have the basics of survival (shelter, warmth, water and food), if you can't overcome the psychological challenges, you chances of survival are lessened. This is one of the principles discussed by numerous survival experts, including WA's Bob Cooper. If you keep a positive and active mind set you improve your chance of survival.

Bob Coopers survival kits include a small pack of playing cards as a tool to an active mind, they also have 52 key survival tips printed on them to get you thinking about your situation. He suggests you take stock of what resources you have and think about uses for them. He also discusses making a plan and reviewing it - not just to get you out of trouble, but to get you thinking about your situation. While it may seem like common sense, it is all about getting you in a positive mind set that will help get you through.

Cheers

Anthony

Sorry Ron N but you are constantly proving yourself to be the reason this site really needs a 'Thumbs Down' icon.

Disagree with a Thumbs Down icon.

Too negative without giving the audience the benefit of your argument as to why you disagree.

If a person feels strongly enough, let him speak. Through his words the rest of us can weigh its credibility.

It's interesting that a letter in the "readers write" section of the West Australian yesterday, from an ex-army officer, was substantially more denigrating of Foggerdy, than I could ever be.
The writer suggested the "experienced bushman" title given to Foggerdy was a complete joke.
This gent savaged Foggerdy for his pathetic method of shooting a camel with a .22, merely injuring it, and then allowing it to run off, to die a lingering death.
I'm surprised the writer didn't suggest that Foggerdy be charged with animal cruelty, as there would probably be a case for prosecution of such a charge.
In addition, it has been revealed that Foggerdy was diabetic, had previously and recently had a heart attack, and was in pretty poor health overall. Not exactly the right condition to head into the bush - and poorly equipped to boot.
In addition, Foggerdy has revealed that he was in possession of survival equipment and water, just prior to shooting the camel - but abandoned it all, to run into the bush after he shot the camel.
The mans faulty thought processes really have to be brought into question, and I do wonder if his initially poor health condition led to those faulty thought processes.
He's guilty of impetuousness that one would expect from a 5 yr old - not from a bloke whose relatives claim, is an "experienced bushman".
He claims he heard his brother shooting, but couldn't make out where the shots were coming from. This is a possible indication that his hearing is poor as well.
At the end of the day, I guess rescuers fully understand that their job is to rescue stupid people who have made even more stupid decisions - but to then refer to the rescued as an "experienced and capable bushman" is what sticks in my throat.
Judging by the many comments I have seen on numerous other websites, I am not alone in this view.

Assuming the guy stopped taking his medication when out in the bush with only black ants to live on his diabetes would not have been an issue at all.

Most short term problems for the majority of diabetics is taking their medication to counter act high glucose levels - if you dont have high glucose levels (through eating) then there is no need to your meds.

Terms like “expert bushman” are relative and often used very subjectively to elicit a particular view or feeling.

More often than not it works, as can be seen here!

This gentleman may very well be viewed as an “expert bushman” by the readership of the newspapers reporting him in that way – in the company of others he may look like a complete novice.

One could expend a lot of time debating the point, but then we might miss something far more important, what we might actually learn from his experience.

Personally I think there is a far greater benefit in asking what we can learn from it as individuals, rather than concerning ourselves over the “headline” that others are tagging Foggerdy with.


Good weekend to all, Baz – The Landy

We don't know the details of this case yet as he is pretty crook.

But at times even the experienced become complacent - they have done some things that many times they cut corners or take things for granted without meaning to do so..
I've found myself doing this at times when in remote areas and have given myself a kick in the butt.

Gonefish

Perhaps those are questions that will be answered in the fullness of time by this gentlemen, if and when he chooses to do so. But I’m sure he will appreciate the time to himself and family whilst he recovers from this ordeal.

In the meantime we can only speculate on the whole situation, the how, the why, the when, and whilst it might make for interesting discussion on the forum, it will be uniformed at best until we hear some facts about the incident…

Why don’t we wait until the facts are known.

The fullness of time may highlight that with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight the man may have done things differently. But let’s not berate the man, and I’m not suggesting you are, instead let’s all learn from the experience.

In the least let’s all revise our strategy for survival in the Bush and Outback should things not go the way we planned. After all, it is easy to have a view on what one will do whilst sitting in the arm-chair with a cup of tea in hand - it is another thing altogether to enact or develop a plan when the proverbial " bleep " hits the fan and your body and mind is not functioning as normal...

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

Well put Baz - we're all knowing after the event.

A bit more info here

A 28 year old deaf local aboriginal man was lost in Kakadu for 9 days with a huge search and rescue effort, not one mention on the news to the extent of this man.

Unfortunately this story ended with a tragic end.

Hey Les,

Your comment that hopefully others will learn from Reg Foggerdy’s experience resonates loudly with me.

I think the fullness of time will highlight shortcomings in this episode and it will be a great study for all who want to learn and recognise the onset of thinking and actions within themselves that could lead to misadventure…

Equally, if you look hard enough there are attributes this man displayed that contributed to his survival and shouldn’t be overlooked, nor discounted.

Perhaps the one value that 20/20 hindsight has is that it enables an opportunity to learn from our past experiences. And inevitably, cases like this one will always have some reaching for the 20/20 hindsight goggles...

Many will say Foggerdy has only himself to blame for exposing himself to the situation in the first place. Fair enough I say if there is sufficient information and facts to make those calls. But such is the frailty of the human psyche that we need to be careful with that line of thinking...

For example, one only needs to pick up a book on aircraft accident investigations to see plenty of evidence of "professional experts" with a lifelong career in flying who made one “stupid” mistake that led to an incident or crash, but on any other day their experience would have ensured it would never happen.

How does this momentary lapse in our thought processes happen and are we all exposed in the same way?

Perhaps it tells us we are all vulnerable in spite of our self-belief in our own abilities!

In Foggerdy’s case it will be interesting to learn whether his shortcomings are symptomatic of a casual approach to outback and remote area travel, or whether this was a momentary lapse by someone who may be deserving of the title “experienced bushman”.

It has been difficult to judge that aspect on the information at hand and would require an examination of his previous experiences to enable any credible conclusion to be made. However, what will be useful is understanding how a person that is clearly not unaccustomed to remote area travel found himself in a life and death situation.

Was it a momentary loss of judgment, or had he been entirely "lucky" all his life and this was the accident waiting to happen?

Understanding that aspect is important as it goes to human behavior, something we are all exposed to – recognising the warning signs may well help us all avoid a situation like the one Foggerdy found himself presented with…

Importantly, I think there is a very critical piece that should not be overlooked – Foggerdy survived for six-days before being found, despite not having any water.

I'll call that incredible!

One key attribute that is common to people who have survived life and death situations is the belief they will survive.

What will the Foggerdy case tell us about that and what can we learn from it?

Of course, the other attribute is luck!

For sure, in these situations a bit of "luck" might just go a long way, right?

There is no doubting Reg Foggerdy got lucky! And if it was his time to get lucky he certainly hit the jackpot!

But then pick up any book on the early Australian Explorers’ and you will see that many survived because luck was on their side...

Perhaps there is more to the saying "you make you on luck" - perhaps “luck” really is a true state of mind – which might go someway to explaining why some people “have all the luck”…

Anyway, some food for thought from “the lucky country”.

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

Last paragraph:

Perhaps there is more to the saying "you make your own luck" ...

Where was the "edit" button...

cheers, Baz

Indeed you make your own luck to a certain degree, and in most cases in the outdoors it is common sense and planning that would see you have some chance of getting out alone on your own effort, or nearly dying out there.
Make no mistake, this fellow was close to expiring, the video shows a man with probably less than a day to succumb to the conditions.

I maintain he was lucky, and certainly unprepared (a bit blase) for what he was doing / where he was located, but then some have much better physiological make ups in their DNA than others for survival without water / food etc.

For sure luck is a funny thing.
A group of mates and I have done some extreme outdoor trips, very isolated from central Australia to the Alpine regions, Tassie, and overseas.
We plan to the hilt, and research all sorts of escape routes that might be needed, contingencies for assistance in emergency, and we've been lucky, never had an incidence, but a snake bite, broken limb, extreme weather etc could bring about a need for such plans.

I still make up pretty thorough gear list, route plan, emergency contacts, etc before 4WD trips, and hope the luck holds and we don't ever need to engage strategies we have to fall back on.

Would love an edit button, but obviously this forum format won't allow it, otherwise I'm sure we'd see one there now.

"How does this momentary lapse in our thought processes happen and are we all exposed in the same way?
Perhaps it tells us we are all vulnerable in spite of our self-belief in our own abilities!"

Baz, how so true. This reminds me of an 'incident' we had a few years back on a trip through the corner country. We had about 5 vehicles including 4 who were very experienced in remote travel (Simpson, CSR, ABH, etc etc.) and a couple of first timers. Had a friend who'd never been bush before and she wanted to experience it first hand. We'd set up camp on the Cordillo Downs road north of the station including the usual pit toilet 40 or so yards downs a dry creek bed behind some bushes. I'd put the long handle shovel in the middle of the creek bed adjacent to the toilet and issued the usual instruction "about 40 yards down there and turn left at the shovel" assuming everyone had the bush skills to find it. First big mistake...... on my part.

Inexperienced friend decided she need to use the facilities about 4 am the next morning. Completely missed the marker in the dark and wound up wandering a couple of hundred yards down the creek bed and got totally lost and then panicked and spent the next two or three hours wandering around in circles in the bush in a increasingly distressed state. Finally found our campsite by accident about 6:30 - 7 completely wigged out and in a state of shock and distress.

Not her fault, as experienced travellers we'd totally failed her and were mortified when we realised it. In hindsight we shoould have:

1. taken her down and shown her where the loo was.
2. told her not to go down unless she'd advised someone else
3. marked out the route with a stick and arrows in the sand (do this everytime now)
4. assigned a adequate duty torch and/or whistle in case she got into difficulties
5. realised the different level of experience in the group

Thankfully no more harm was done except some scratches and blisters and a fair bit of stress. Could have been far far worse.

A simple assumption and mistake by a group of experienced travellers who should have known better........