Front End Wobble

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 21:26
ThreadID: 130723 Views:1595 Replies:6 FollowUps:10
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Have a 75 series nearing 400,000 clicks and have just recently noticed a slight wobble mainly when changing lanes at around 90 - 100 clicks.

Changed the shocks and steering damper , not because of this as they were buggered and had a wheel alignment done, which improved it, but its still there and its annoying.

Because its something recent, I suspect something is worn, maybe kingpins

Can anyone recommend a 4x4 suspension place in Adelaide who could do an assessment on my front end.

Don't want to start replacing stuff through trial and error if i can help it

Thanks
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Reply By: swampy - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 23:21

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 23:21
hi
First all joints in front end must be in good condition .At 400 thou even some of the Toyota parts fail . If they have seen lots of work they would have been replaced anyways .
Check springs and hangers etc etc
Check tyre for out of round or bad tyre wear

Swivel hub bearings [kingpin] have a huge influence on quality of driving
A few points to be aware of
check for play first in hubs
if ok check wheel align write down info
Install wheel/align bearing kit
U donot have to install the W/A bearing set unless w/a specs are way out

main things that u have to do is install bearings with************************* 3-6 kgs of drag guage ******************
Set axle height with Guenuine type tools
Replace/ check when removed shocks and str damper if fitted

swampy
AnswerID: 592082

Follow Up By: swampy - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 23:43

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 23:43
hi
THE caster must be correct to prevent wandering .
The correct difference in caster readings helps also
U can only adjust toe with a factory setup . Aftermarket /k/p bearings do caster and camber
The bearing drag controls drift shimmy vibration

swampy
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FollowupID: 860176

Follow Up By: disco driver - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 00:39

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 00:39
At 400K I would be replacing ALL the steering ball joints first.
Worn joints will definitely create a steering wobble.

Next in line would be the spring bushes and finally the swivel pin housings.

That way you would do the cheapest first and then the more expensive repairs if the earlier ones do not fix the issue.

At least that's the way I would do it.

Disco.
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FollowupID: 860180

Follow Up By: mike39 - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 07:41

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 07:41
On the 70 series there are adjustable spring loaded ball seats on both ends of the relay/drag link.
Any looseness here can aggravate wheel shimmy.
mike
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FollowupID: 860187

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 08:50

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 08:50
If any of the above answers are correct, then the OP should ask for a refund for his wheel alignment!
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FollowupID: 860190

Follow Up By: LandCoaster - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 09:31

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 09:31
King-pin (trunnion) bearings for sure...

Usually the bearing collaspes creatung vertical play...

IF you get onto it fast enough you wont have to reshim...

Closed knuckles are held together by friction...As Swampy says, dont overtighten the king-pin bolts....
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FollowupID: 860193

Follow Up By: swampy - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:23

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:23
HI
The drag I mention is ,
Once u have equal thickness shims top and bottom
Attach a spring pull guage on the steering arm and pull in direction of knuckle rotation
Read how many kgs of force to turn steering knuckle
Aim for 6kgs
to little drag the bearings will go sloppy very quickly
to much and the bearings will have a short life
Remove or add shims equally as required
Think of these bearings as wheel bearings ,diff bearings . All these have some preload

Some dealers donot do this """its ok yea yea "" is the response

swampy
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FollowupID: 860195

Follow Up By: LandCoaster - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 21:41

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 21:41
when I went to do my effy fronts finding the right procedure and understanding the procedure was a challenge....so im not reapeting Swamp's method, just giving a version i wish i had...

slowly torque the kning pins bolts until the proper drag establish's on the hub
if the king-pins don't torque to spec by the time the hub drag is, or isnt reached, adjust a shim....

It's an expensive job to get right without the kningpin bolts loosenning a few clicks later. It's an easy-greasy job to do oneself.
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FollowupID: 860239

Reply By: 2517. - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 18:17

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 18:17
Had a similar problem turn out to be the tyres out of round,Kumo only worn out .
AnswerID: 592110

Reply By: Rojac - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 19:02

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 19:02
Thanks for the solutions, I've opted to get it assessed, in the first instance. In conversation with the guys that I rang and booked, the first comment that they made when I described the issues was that I needed castor correction bushes, maybe he meant wedges, can't remeber seeing any radius arms or coils last time I looked.

I have only limited mechanical skills, can do basic stuff but some of this is out of my league hence taking in account some of the comments, at least I'll be better informed and when I get the results see if there are valid or not

Have done it for monday

Thanks Guys
AnswerID: 592112

Reply By: Ron N - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:14

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:14
The biggest single cause of front wheel shimmy is when the majority of the front end steering components simply get well-worn.
Swampy has it all sorted.

Wide wheels and oversize tyres with slight out-of-balance problems exacerbate the wear and sloppiness in ball joint and kingpin bearings/bushes, and steering damper - and the result is front wheel shimmy.

The front end components such as ball joints, kingpins, steering damper and even the steering box, all need to have a degree of tightness (preload, in the case of the bearings) - and this general tightness and drag, is part of what keeps the front wheels from shimmying.

The other factor involved, is the front end design that is engineered so that the rotating wobble in the wheels doesn't overcome the steering effort needed to keep the wheels steady.
This is done by ensuring the steering arms and Pitman arm have the correct length and leverage ability to be able to keep control of wheel wobble.

Jeep Wranglers have a major problem with front wheel shimmy, because their front-end engineering is poor, and the steering arms don't have enough length to be able to control wheel shimmy.
In addition, most Jeep steering components are very lightweight. It's made worse by most Wrangler owners fitting oversize tyres.
As the tyre width and diameter increases, the leverage of any slight wheel imbalance over the steering components is increased, leading to a higher chance of front wheel shimmy.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 592136

Follow Up By: Rojac - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:55

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:55
Still have std split rims so after almost 400000 wear and tear has probably taken its toll and will need things replaced
New car in not an option so I'll see what happens then work out who I can take it to that won't rip me off

Cheers
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FollowupID: 860268

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 13:09

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 13:09
Kingpins and their bearings are the first thing you need to look at, followed by wheel bearing condition and preload.
If neither have previously been touched, these will almost certainly need replacement.
All steering ball joints need to be examined closely to ensure no movement whatsoever.
You can have what appears to be only slight wear in steering ball joints, but this can cause wheel shimmy.
The best and simplest technique is to jack up the Cruiser and have a mate grab the road wheel and shake it back and forth, while you closely watch every steering component.
If there's slop in anything, this should show up in the test.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 860270

Reply By: Rojac - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 15:16

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 15:16
Cheers, thanks for the info, at least now I am better informed then I was before I posted.

I'll post what the results will be after monday
AnswerID: 592144

Follow Up By: Rojac - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:50

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:50
FYI, swivel pre loads require adjustment
swivels leaking
All spring bushes badly worn
Camber correction pins 1 x 0.5 deg 1 x 0.75deg fitted to stop wheels wearing on outer edges

Had a wheel alignment done as well
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FollowupID: 860410

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 22:38

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 22:38
What Mike39 said first, then start on the other suggestions!

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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AnswerID: 592163

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