Slide on camper weight problem

Submitted: Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 17:36
ThreadID: 130769 Views:6110 Replies:13 FollowUps:32
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I have purchased a new slide on camper to go on my Hilux. Dealer claimed weight 650 kg approx. Manufacturer cannot give me the weight. I have weighed my ute with it on, and with it off, the difference is 1000kgs!! ATM on the VIN plate is blank. What legal requirement, if any, is there for the dealer or manufacturer to ensure the vehicle being fitted is not overloaded? Is there a requirement for accurate weight information for the customer?
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Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 17:50

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 17:50
Hi Meredith R1, I think you should approach some sort of govco body / regulator (dept of transport in your state ?) and ask their opinion of the legalities, it may vary state to state.
That much difference is an awful lot extra, and obviously less capacity for other essentials you need to take on a trip.
The fact they don't put that info on a compliance plate is a bit damning of their knowledge of the tare weight.

Is your hilux a dual cab or single ?
Obviously cab chassis, with or without tray for the slide on ?

If you have a dual cab, watch the load behind the rear axle, as this is responsible for many a bent chassis, especially if fitting air bags with a single load focus over axle.
AnswerID: 592275

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:15

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:15
Dual cab. I have been advised that I will never be able to stop in the wet.
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Follow Up By: Whirlwinder - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:58

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:58
Meredith,
I would be advising you not to put it on a dual cab "anything" as the weight behind the rear axle will do exactly as already stated.
If it only REALLY weighed 500kgs it would be too much weight behind the axle.
The reason that it would be hard to stop on wet roads is that all that weight behind the axle lifts as the effect of lifting the front wheels, like a see-saw action,
Believe me, I have had first hand experience with a semi-government Ford Ranger that was positively dangerous. The front wheels were 200kgs UNDER weight.
Go back to the dealer.
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Reply By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 17:52

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 17:52
ls that 1000kg Slide on empty ?
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Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:14

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:14
As received from the dealer. Has 60ltr water, fixtures and fittings
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Reply By: Simon C7 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:08

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:08
If this is a slide on camper..It will not have a ATM (Aggregate Trailer Mass)...that is why I believe the ATM is blank on the VIN plate. It may have a Tare Weight (More so the empty weight of the slide on camper) along with a VIN for identification. MOre what you need to do is weight the slide on camper (Which you say is 1000kg), and then check on your compliance plate of the Hilux as to see what load you can carry on it. Hopefully your dealer gave you a written quote with the weight of the camper listed on it (650 kg)...happy days. If not...good luck fighting them if you just said you want XX slide on camper and they said it should be 650kgs.
AnswerID: 592277

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:17

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:17
No weight at all is recorded on the vin plate, hence my question - is there any obligation on the part of dealer or manufacturer to disclose actual weight?
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:27

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:27
Yes, look at your GVM on hilux compliance plate, and compare to total with slide on fitted (and for that matter without slide on) . . . how does that look ?

Not sure what the model lux you have or their general GVMs, but you would be surprised how little some vehicles can carry in mods and gear . . . safely.
Remember too that GVM is on normal road conditions, take it onto tracks and rough terrain, and really you need to scale back total weight to common sense terms.

There should really be something in formula for off road adjustments to GVM.
Loaded up for a SImmo type trip, I am about 300kg under GVM . . . when I eventually get to do a CSR etc type of trip, I am sure I would be teetering right on my 3019kg limit with extra fuel.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:28

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 18:28
You posted before I had replied above . . . Not a yes to "is there any obligation on the part of dealer or manufacturer to disclose actual weight?"
But to the suggestion to check GVM.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 19:15

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 19:15
Meredith; As Simon has asked;

Have you got anything in paper form from the dealer that mentions anything at all about the slide on's weight? Having that 650Kg actually in writing would be the best. Anything at all especially a quote, offer, agreement or contract.

Phil
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FollowupID: 860400

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:53

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:53
I have "approx 650kg" on a promotion sheet. I have a witness to my asking the supplier the weight when I queried him attaching it with ratchet straps. He pointed to the label that said 650kg and said"see each of these straps will hold the slide on". He got quite mad about it and then changed to turn buckles
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FollowupID: 860412

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 20:58

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 20:58
If you have both written & witnessed verbal confirmation of the weight being "approximately 650kg" you most certainly have a case for the dealer to take back the goods.

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Reply By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 19:54

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 19:54
I have just sold my Hilux 2006 Dual Cab D4D ,
l will take a guess that you have the same model
If you have , even if that Camper was 650kg , you have Buckleys of keeping under GVM .
That model has a GVM of 2780-Kg , you can get a GVM upgrade of 550Kg that will help .
I was always over GVM with my Hilux and l only had a RoofTop Tent and tub body .

What was the weight of your Lux without the Camper .
AnswerID: 592280

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 20:15

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 20:15
Weight of Hilux 2020kg with tow bar for fitment. Model 2014 3.0 diesel 4x4 dual cab. Yep same GVM
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 20:58

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 20:58
You had better look into a GVM up grade , if you want to at least try and be legal.

I was in the same boat with my Hilux , l now have a new Dmax extra cab , l got a GVM of 270Kg before rego , l also bought Tvan , l should be able to spread the load and be legal.

I have access to a weigh bridge , the mates and l weigh our vehicles before each trip .
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Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:11

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:11
I am told a GVM upgrade can be about 10% only, so about 300kgs. This will not get me out of trouble, I still can't legally get in and drive it - would overload again even before putting in any gear. A complete disaster. I feel I have totally misled by the dealer. Am trying to get a refund but he is demanding I sign his silence order before he refunds.
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Reply By: Member - Timnivo - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:09

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:09
Hi Meredith R1. IF the slideon weighs 1000kg, there is NOTHING you can do to make it work safely on a dual cab hilux. Even a chassis extension will not enable it to carry that sort of load on the tray. I carry an 800kg tray camper on a converted/stretched/gvm upgraded 200 series Toyota and wouldn't want to go any heavier on it!! You need your money refunded if possible, or a completely different vehicle to carry the slideon. Sorry for the bad news. Timnivo.
AnswerID: 592284

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:17

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:17
The dealer recommended the Hilux as a suitable vehicle, completely misled me about the weight of the slide on, did an extremely poor fitment and now is refusing to refund unless I sign his gag order, Isn't there any responsibility on the part of the supplier to ensure the slide ons they fit are safe?
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FollowupID: 860408

Follow Up By: Member - Timnivo - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:28

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:28
I think if the dealer is talking about signing a Gag order, it is time to get some legal advice. Timnivo.
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Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 07:21

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 07:21
Sign it, get your money back In your account, and worry about being hard done by later. If the dealer/manufacturer get together and reneg you'll be stuck with it. Have just seen this go down with a bloke who bought a boat that wasn't fit for purpose but because he went public the dealer shut down on him. If you have to go to court there won't be any winners. You have an opportunity to get back to square one - take it or buy an f truck.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 08:51

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 08:51
..
"If you have to go to court there won't be any winners."
Ahh, there're ALWAYS 2 winners in a legal battle.

Your advice to go with that sign, full refund, is the best option.
Give them ONE shot at this, tell them that, and if they stuff you around, THEN go legal (if you really have to) or trade up on the F truck.
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Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 09:16

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 09:16
2015 Ranger: (isn't this still insufficient? - it seems there are very few options))

2015 4x4 XL Plus Double Cab Chassis 3.2L
Fuel Economy:9.2 L/100km 2
Standard features, including:
3.2L Diesel Auto
Towing capacity of 3,500kg 3
SYNC™ with voice control
Payload of up to 1090kg4
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Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 09:58

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 09:58
Sorry Meredith, an f truck is the f series either 100, 150, 250 etc etc. American imports.
The ranger in your link is my ute exactly. It would need a chassis extension and gym upgrade to enjoy carting a 1 plus tonne home on its back.
Do you need a twin cab? Extra cabs have better wheel placement to cope. Single cabs even better.
The new twin cabs (ranger) are much better than your hilux with the rear axle back a fair way more, but you are asking a lot of them at touring weight.
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FollowupID: 860440

Reply By: Simon C7 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:47

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 21:47
Meredith R1
There appears to be a bit more to this story that first let on. First it was a slide on camper with no ATM (applies to trailers only) that was too heavy. Then the dealer recommended a "Hilux" would be a suitable vehicle. Suggest that if this was a legit deal and documented ( I am gathering you have spent quite a few thousand dollars here) then all the documentation would support a legal claim. As mentioned in a preveous post...get to your lawyer and get a claim in. If you are trolling...you got us.
AnswerID: 592285

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 22:03

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 22:03
What do you mean, if you are trolling, you got us??? I am trying to find out if there is anyone who can tell me if there are responsibilities of the supplier of slide on campers to provide safe product (weight legal) and safe/secure fitment. Yes I have spent a LOT of money on this, have been to Fair Trading, NRMA, RMS, CCIA, searched the net, and no-one can give me an answer on this. Yes, legal seems to be the next step. Thanks.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 00:30

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 00:30
" I am trying to find out if there is anyone who can tell me if there are responsibilities of the supplier of slide on campers to provide safe product (weight legal) and safe/secure fitment."

Yes there is. It is covered by "fit for the purpose" in most states consumer legislation. I posted a reply below before reading down to this reply. I think I can be assist you but not on an open posting on this forum.
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
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Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 06:58

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 06:58
Thanks for your reply Nomadic Navara. Have you had a similar experience to me? I have a very basic understanding of the consumer law you are referring to (perhaps it is my only hope) but I found this link for a law relating to slide ons in the US:
Is there anything at all like this in Australian law?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/575.103
Thanks
Meredith R1
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 11:46

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 11:46
Here's a brief rundown on Australian Consumer Law:
http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fact_sheets/shops.htm
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 12:37

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 12:37
Meredith, I have had over weight problems with a van but I was offering you a third party who may be able to assist.
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
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Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 22:37

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 22:37
Peter D, I am having trouble joining via my iPad, keep skipping out of membership in the shop page. Will try again when I get to a computer. Cheers Meredith
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 22:56

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 22:56
The very well worn phrase, (particularly on this forum) "fit for purpose," does not apply in this case, as there has been no complaint about the product itself & it is not the manufacturers responsibility to ensure what the end user does with it.
The OP has a clear cut case against the vendor for misrepresentation of the product, for which he would be well advised to go to VCAT or the equivalent in his State.
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FollowupID: 860476

Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Saturday, Nov 07, 2015 at 20:15

Saturday, Nov 07, 2015 at 20:15
Firstly, I have no knowledge of the GMV for your vehicle. However, should the unit on board (complete with full water tank) move you above your limit and you were sold the unit after telling the dealer what vehicle you had, AND they suggested this would be suitable, then- yes you have a strong case. You do not have to have this in writing (though naturally it is better if you did or you have a witness to the discussions prior to purchase). Further if the dealer gave you a weight of around 650kg (again, hopefully you have a witness) they are making a claim about the product which is misleading. Again, you have a strong case. Retailers (and in most cases wholesalers) are not permitted to do this under consumer guarantees in force in Australia. Contact your local consumer affairs office or the ACCC consumer hotline.

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FollowupID: 860628

Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 00:23

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 00:23
Meredith, if you were a member I would be able to put you in touch with a dealer who frequents another forum. He was stung after he sold a van with an ATM a little over the towing capacity of the tug. Join up and then send me a private message. I will not post details from another forum in an open post on a forum.
PeterD
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AnswerID: 592286

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 09:59

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 09:59
Meredith

For what it is worth your best option is to take all the information you have, present it to a legal expert that deals with consumer issues and be guided by them us to the best course of action.

Feedback here is all good intentioned, and whilst others may have been in similar situations no two are the same…

Mind you, if the dealer is offering to settle an amount that is acceptable to you I’d take that and move on saving any further legal costs.

Good luck, Baz – The Landy
AnswerID: 592305

Reply By: dow50r - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 10:36

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 10:36
Meredith, i believe the onus is on yourself to ensure the vehicle you drive is conforming to the law. I suggest you see a legal person for advice, then trade said hilux in for a landcruiser ute....or....get your money back from the manufacturer stating the camper can not legally be put on your vehicle due to its weight being over 650 as advertised....if you can get money back, thats the best option, if you have to pay for advice, its cheaper than finding out you loose the car and house after a long battle.
AnswerID: 592306

Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 13:10

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 13:10
This is an all too common story with slide on campers ...... I personally know a few people who have been stung .

To start with there is simply no way, you will legally put a 1tonne slide on camper on any dual cab utility that is not at truck, legally ...... anybody selling or building them should know that.

Anybody building such a product should know exactly what the finished product should weigh ...... they should be able to calculate that from the drawings ....... if there are proper engineering drawings.

New buyers
If they can not tell you and give it in writing within 50KG, and guarantee the unladen mass ..... stop listening, start walking, don't look back ( walk far, walk fast) and certainly do not sign on the dotted line.

Like caravans and a few other issues, people look at their loading masses way too simplistlcy ......... you need to look further that GVM and payload.
ALL vehicles have front and rear axle limits, if they are not in the manual, get them in writing from the dealer.

Not only should the slide on manufacturer be able to quote and guarantee unladen mass of the slide on they should be able to specify weight distribution or at least centre of mass.

A given slide on may seem to be within the GVM requirements ...... But betya a hell of a lot of them overload the rear axle, because of a failure to consider weight distribution.

Personally I can not see how, without some very clever maths & engineering ( that most of the builders lack) and a considerable cab overhang, a slide on camper can be made to correctly distribute weight so as to not overload the rear axle or the rear chassis.

On to the matter of tie down ...... considering the weight involved and having a pretty fair knoweledge of legal requirements of load restraint ( I have a certificate that says so) .......I remain absolutely gobsmacked at how some of these things are tied down .......... If the actual tiedowns are adequaite rated, correctly applied and not non rated rubbish baught from the hardware shop, I can't see how the attachement points comply ..... I won't go into detail but I do not believe it is possible to tie one of these things down to an aluminium or styleside tray using 4 attachment points and have it comply.

In short it is my firm belief that fitting a slide on camper to a dual cab ute, as the product is currently offered simply can not be done safely and is nearly impossible to do legally.

Yet people persist.


On the matter of what the OP is to do ........ you have a procuct that yu simply can not use, it can not be fixed and it can not be rectified except by a full refund.

I would not be bleep arround ........ my first port of call would be a weigh bridge and obtain an axle split ...... if you are able to remove the camper safely ..... get an axle split with and without the slide on.

I would then be retaining a sloicitor ......perhaps get some qualified engineering advice...... you need to go in hard and heavy first time ....... I would be inclined to return to the dealer, armed with all the necessary information, a letter of demand and with the solicitor in tow. ..... and don't leave without a full refund or a written agreement to provide one.

As for gag orders ........ tell hin to drop on his head.

Be prepared to see him in court, because if you drive this rubbish on the road you are pretty much uninsured and have no vehicle warranty. ...... and fate is stalking close behind.

sorry but that is how I see it.

cheers

AnswerID: 592307

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 13:18

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 13:18
OH and don't forget to build in a claim for costs, and make sure the dealer understands if you have to persue him thru the courts, youn will be claiming all costs and extending you actions to all the regulatory boddies and seeking regulatory penalties on top of civil remidies.

Don't muck about, do it as soon as you can, go in hard and heavy.

cheers
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Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 20:23

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 20:23
slide on,have a ranger twin cab,with a slide on,has bullbar aluminium tray ,, bash plate rear bar,full fuel tank ,no driver or passengers,weights 2460 k's with out camper on, and with camper on 80 litres water nothing else brings it up to about 2980 kilos again no driver or passengers,i have 220 kilos to spare that has to include me and food goodies etc,the ranger has a gvm of 3200 k's, drives a little slower but have not done any off road yet,will be asking for suspension advice and upgrade soon,can go arb and get upgraded to 3300 k's but not sure if i want to use arb , even in the ford brochure if you have an auto you need to allow 18 kg and air conditiong 14 k'g is included in the kerb weight, hope i have my figures right,i would have no hope of carrying 650 k's let alone passengers etc best of luck bye barry
AnswerID: 592318

Reply By: 671 - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 21:38

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 21:38
Meredith

When you finally get this problem sorted out, I assume you will start looking for another camper that is much more suitable for a Hilux. There is one vital thing that should be kept in mind when loading any cab/chassis ute be it a dual, single or extra and that is the front to rear weight distribution. Countless people have suffered chassis or rear axle housing damage by having too little weight in the cabin and far too much out the back. A car loaded like that can be under GVM but still in danger of structural failure.

Earlier this year I discussed loading a Hilux dual cab with a Toyota salesman. He said he was told during a training course with Toyota that their cars have been designed on a 85 kg plus 15 kg basis. That is 85 kg per person plus 15 kg for things like heavy clothing, cameras , brief cases etc that each person is likely to put into the cabin.

This means 500 kg in the cabin if you want to take the car up to the maximum before you start loading the tray or tub. If you loaded one with five rugby forwards, there is a good chance it will be over 500.

They have to be designed like this. It would be a disaster if they designed them to carry no more than a 150 kg husband /wife combination with three kids under ten.

Don't take my word for this, discuss it with Toyota on their customer information service. Contact details will be on their web site.

You may have already seen this magazine story from April this year.bent chassis This problem is caused by leverage behind the rear axle. When the front wheels of the car drop into a hole on a rough road, the front of the chassis drops down and the back goes up. The pivot point is the rear axle bearings. All of the material on the chassis behind the axle then has to be lifted instantly. The chassis will bend a millimetre or two under the strain then return to its original position when the car settles down.

When the back wheels go down, so does the rear end of the chassis. The material on the end of the chassis also falls. Like any falling object, it builds up momentum and does not want to stop. This hits the end of the chassis hard when it stops. After having to catch this falling material, the chassis then has to heave it back up again thus subjecting it to more stress.

If this happens enough times, the chassis will eventually develop metal fatigue and either crack or bend permanently.

Heavier springs, air bags or GVM upgrades will not stop this. The end of the chassis is unrestrained. There is no spring between the far end of it and the road so it will be flexing up and down behind the axle like the end of a diving board. It has been designed to handle a certain amount of this but when loading a car for camping or long distance remote unsealed road touring, it is very easy to take it beyond its design limits.


AnswerID: 592319

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 20:38

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 20:38
What 671 has outlined is spot-on. All the dual cabs, already have a lot of chassis hanging out behind the rear wheels.
Add on a long tray or even worse, a camper - and that overhang becomes absolutely huge, and adds increasing leverage to the chassis extending beyond the rear axle.

In addition, this major overhang, plus it's accompanying weight, acts like a pendulum that adversely and seriously affects steering response and handling.
Doing a small swerve at anything over suburban speeds (as you would do, with swerving to miss a pothole you've suddenly spotted) - and the handling response is frightening, even to a very experienced driver.
These vehicles will develop such savage oversteer when you swing the steering at speed, that they make a Volkswagen Beetle look like it handles like a Formula One race car.

IMO, campers and long trays on dual cab vehicles, should be declared too dangerous to be on the road, from an engineering and handling viewpoint, and banned from being road-registered.
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FollowupID: 860521

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 21:26

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 21:26
671 and Ron N. I have to agree with you, I will never again contemplate a dual cab with slide on, or even a single cab for that matter. But what has to happen before there are standards applied to regulate the industry and control unscrupulous and unprofessional manufacturers and dealers of slide on campers? A couple of coronial inquests perhaps?? I certainly hope not but fear there may be many unsafe setups out there., I am surely not the first to be caught out. How many people have had to sign gag orders to get their money back?
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FollowupID: 860525

Follow Up By: TomH - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 21:52

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 21:52
If you get it all back I wouldnt worry. You are back to square one , just cant name the unscrupulous dealer.

If you get less then is the time to get tough
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FollowupID: 860527

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Nov 05, 2015 at 00:08

Thursday, Nov 05, 2015 at 00:08
Meredith - A demand for a gag agreement when a refund is being made, is nothing short of commercial blackmail, and unconscionable conduct smacking of a paranoid corporate culture.

There is no way I would sign any gag order when I was rightfully entitled to a refund under Australian Consumer Law - as you are.

The product you purchased was misrepresented to you, and the seller has an obligation to refund your purchase monies in full - without demands for a gag agreement.

Purely because a gag agreement is being demanded, merely indicates that the seller has plenty to hide, and wishes to hide or bury any negative perceptions of his/her business operations, to ensure his/her business style and ethics cannot be the subject of open discussion.

A few hundred dollars spent on legal advice and perhaps a lawyers letter to the seller demanding full unconditional repayment of the purchase price - or the matter will proceed to the courts - may bring good results.

The seller is operating from a position of weakness and the law is on your side, and the seller has no right whatsoever to place onerous conditions on a refund that is rightfully due.
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FollowupID: 860532

Follow Up By: Meredith R1 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2015 at 11:57

Thursday, Nov 05, 2015 at 11:57
Ron N. Th risk to me is that I would only get the full refund at best, maybe even less, and be stuck with court costs as I could have accepted it now. I am afraid there are those out there with a lot more practice at this than I have and they know exactly how far they can go. That's the legal advice I have received. mmmmm. I too wish it wasn't like this, but unless there are standards, regulations, codes of practice, etc, directly related to slide on campers, and maybe some ethics, it will remain this way. But many thanks for your help.
1
FollowupID: 860545

Reply By: Meredith R1 - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 22:31

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 22:31
Thanks everyone for your comments. You have been very helpful. Cheers!
Meredith
AnswerID: 592320

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