Slide on camper weight problem

Hi Meredith R1, I think you should approach some sort of govco body / regulator (dept of transport in your state ?) and ask their opinion of the legalities, it may vary state to state.
That much difference is an awful lot extra, and obviously less capacity for other essentials you need to take on a trip.
The fact they don't put that info on a compliance plate is a bit damning of their knowledge of the tare weight.

Is your hilux a dual cab or single ?
Obviously cab chassis, with or without tray for the slide on ?

If you have a dual cab, watch the load behind the rear axle, as this is responsible for many a bent chassis, especially if fitting air bags with a single load focus over axle.

ls that 1000kg Slide on empty ?

If this is a slide on camper..It will not have a ATM (Aggregate Trailer Mass)...that is why I believe the ATM is blank on the VIN plate. It may have a Tare Weight (More so the empty weight of the slide on camper) along with a VIN for identification. MOre what you need to do is weight the slide on camper (Which you say is 1000kg), and then check on your compliance plate of the Hilux as to see what load you can carry on it. Hopefully your dealer gave you a written quote with the weight of the camper listed on it (650 kg)...happy days. If not...good luck fighting them if you just said you want XX slide on camper and they said it should be 650kgs.

I have just sold my Hilux 2006 Dual Cab D4D ,
l will take a guess that you have the same model
If you have , even if that Camper was 650kg , you have Buckleys of keeping under GVM .
That model has a GVM of 2780-Kg , you can get a GVM upgrade of 550Kg that will help .
I was always over GVM with my Hilux and l only had a RoofTop Tent and tub body .

What was the weight of your Lux without the Camper .

Hi Meredith R1. IF the slideon weighs 1000kg, there is NOTHING you can do to make it work safely on a dual cab hilux. Even a chassis extension will not enable it to carry that sort of load on the tray. I carry an 800kg tray camper on a converted/stretched/gvm upgraded 200 series Toyota and wouldn't want to go any heavier on it!! You need your money refunded if possible, or a completely different vehicle to carry the slideon. Sorry for the bad news. Timnivo.

Meredith R1
There appears to be a bit more to this story that first let on. First it was a slide on camper with no ATM (applies to trailers only) that was too heavy. Then the dealer recommended a "Hilux" would be a suitable vehicle. Suggest that if this was a legit deal and documented ( I am gathering you have spent quite a few thousand dollars here) then all the documentation would support a legal claim. As mentioned in a preveous post...get to your lawyer and get a claim in. If you are trolling...you got us.

Meredith, if you were a member I would be able to put you in touch with a dealer who frequents another forum. He was stung after he sold a van with an ATM a little over the towing capacity of the tug. Join up and then send me a private message. I will not post details from another forum in an open post on a forum.

Meredith

For what it is worth your best option is to take all the information you have, present it to a legal expert that deals with consumer issues and be guided by them us to the best course of action.

Feedback here is all good intentioned, and whilst others may have been in similar situations no two are the same…

Mind you, if the dealer is offering to settle an amount that is acceptable to you I’d take that and move on saving any further legal costs.

Good luck, Baz – The Landy

Meredith, i believe the onus is on yourself to ensure the vehicle you drive is conforming to the law. I suggest you see a legal person for advice, then trade said hilux in for a landcruiser ute....or....get your money back from the manufacturer stating the camper can not legally be put on your vehicle due to its weight being over 650 as advertised....if you can get money back, thats the best option, if you have to pay for advice, its cheaper than finding out you loose the car and house after a long battle.

This is an all too common story with slide on campers ...... I personally know a few people who have been stung .

To start with there is simply no way, you will legally put a 1tonne slide on camper on any dual cab utility that is not at truck, legally ...... anybody selling or building them should know that.

Anybody building such a product should know exactly what the finished product should weigh ...... they should be able to calculate that from the drawings ....... if there are proper engineering drawings.

New buyers
If they can not tell you and give it in writing within 50KG, and guarantee the unladen mass ..... stop listening, start walking, don't look back ( walk far, walk fast) and certainly do not sign on the dotted line.

Like caravans and a few other issues, people look at their loading masses way too simplistlcy ......... you need to look further that GVM and payload.
ALL vehicles have front and rear axle limits, if they are not in the manual, get them in writing from the dealer.

Not only should the slide on manufacturer be able to quote and guarantee unladen mass of the slide on they should be able to specify weight distribution or at least centre of mass.

A given slide on may seem to be within the GVM requirements ...... But betya a hell of a lot of them overload the rear axle, because of a failure to consider weight distribution.

Personally I can not see how, without some very clever maths & engineering ( that most of the builders lack) and a considerable cab overhang, a slide on camper can be made to correctly distribute weight so as to not overload the rear axle or the rear chassis.

On to the matter of tie down ...... considering the weight involved and having a pretty fair knoweledge of legal requirements of load restraint ( I have a certificate that says so) .......I remain absolutely gobsmacked at how some of these things are tied down .......... If the actual tiedowns are adequaite rated, correctly applied and not non rated rubbish baught from the hardware shop, I can't see how the attachement points comply ..... I won't go into detail but I do not believe it is possible to tie one of these things down to an aluminium or styleside tray using 4 attachment points and have it comply.

In short it is my firm belief that fitting a slide on camper to a dual cab ute, as the product is currently offered simply can not be done safely and is nearly impossible to do legally.

Yet people persist.


On the matter of what the OP is to do ........ you have a procuct that yu simply can not use, it can not be fixed and it can not be rectified except by a full refund.

I would not be bleep arround ........ my first port of call would be a weigh bridge and obtain an axle split ...... if you are able to remove the camper safely ..... get an axle split with and without the slide on.

I would then be retaining a sloicitor ......perhaps get some qualified engineering advice...... you need to go in hard and heavy first time ....... I would be inclined to return to the dealer, armed with all the necessary information, a letter of demand and with the solicitor in tow. ..... and don't leave without a full refund or a written agreement to provide one.

As for gag orders ........ tell hin to drop on his head.

Be prepared to see him in court, because if you drive this rubbish on the road you are pretty much uninsured and have no vehicle warranty. ...... and fate is stalking close behind.

sorry but that is how I see it.

cheers

slide on,have a ranger twin cab,with a slide on,has bullbar aluminium tray ,, bash plate rear bar,full fuel tank ,no driver or passengers,weights 2460 k's with out camper on, and with camper on 80 litres water nothing else brings it up to about 2980 kilos again no driver or passengers,i have 220 kilos to spare that has to include me and food goodies etc,the ranger has a gvm of 3200 k's, drives a little slower but have not done any off road yet,will be asking for suspension advice and upgrade soon,can go arb and get upgraded to 3300 k's but not sure if i want to use arb , even in the ford brochure if you have an auto you need to allow 18 kg and air conditiong 14 k'g is included in the kerb weight, hope i have my figures right,i would have no hope of carrying 650 k's let alone passengers etc best of luck bye barry

Meredith

When you finally get this problem sorted out, I assume you will start looking for another camper that is much more suitable for a Hilux. There is one vital thing that should be kept in mind when loading any cab/chassis ute be it a dual, single or extra and that is the front to rear weight distribution. Countless people have suffered chassis or rear axle housing damage by having too little weight in the cabin and far too much out the back. A car loaded like that can be under GVM but still in danger of structural failure.

Earlier this year I discussed loading a Hilux dual cab with a Toyota salesman. He said he was told during a training course with Toyota that their cars have been designed on a 85 kg plus 15 kg basis. That is 85 kg per person plus 15 kg for things like heavy clothing, cameras , brief cases etc that each person is likely to put into the cabin.

This means 500 kg in the cabin if you want to take the car up to the maximum before you start loading the tray or tub. If you loaded one with five rugby forwards, there is a good chance it will be over 500.

They have to be designed like this. It would be a disaster if they designed them to carry no more than a 150 kg husband /wife combination with three kids under ten.

Don't take my word for this, discuss it with Toyota on their customer information service. Contact details will be on their web site.

You may have already seen this magazine story from April this year.bent chassis This problem is caused by leverage behind the rear axle. When the front wheels of the car drop into a hole on a rough road, the front of the chassis drops down and the back goes up. The pivot point is the rear axle bearings. All of the material on the chassis behind the axle then has to be lifted instantly. The chassis will bend a millimetre or two under the strain then return to its original position when the car settles down.

When the back wheels go down, so does the rear end of the chassis. The material on the end of the chassis also falls. Like any falling object, it builds up momentum and does not want to stop. This hits the end of the chassis hard when it stops. After having to catch this falling material, the chassis then has to heave it back up again thus subjecting it to more stress.

If this happens enough times, the chassis will eventually develop metal fatigue and either crack or bend permanently.

Heavier springs, air bags or GVM upgrades will not stop this. The end of the chassis is unrestrained. There is no spring between the far end of it and the road so it will be flexing up and down behind the axle like the end of a diving board. It has been designed to handle a certain amount of this but when loading a car for camping or long distance remote unsealed road touring, it is very easy to take it beyond its design limits.

Thanks everyone for your comments. You have been very helpful. Cheers!
Meredith