Vehicle tare weights?

Submitted: Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 09:31
ThreadID: 130952 Views:2337 Replies:4 FollowUps:17
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Are manufacturers quoting wet or dry weights do you know?

With a 100 l tank and an advertised payload of around 700 kg for wagons the difference is obviously significant.

With motorbikes increasingly it's wet or kerb weight.
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Reply By: TomH - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 09:43

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 09:43
The Tare weight of a motorised vehicle is normally dry except for 10 litres of fuel and obviously radiator full as well so it can be driven to scales..

Toyotas are weighed that way

The Kerb weight is normally with fuel tank full.

A caravans Tare is supposed to be dry weight as exiting the factory No water at all, no gas bottles.

If hasnt got an awning or Aircon at that point they will come out of payload if fitted later.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 09:54

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 09:54
Hi Tom

We were asked to try and have only 10 litres in the tank when we got the car weighed as part of the GVM upgrade.

I think that we were a tad under when we next put fuel in it which was a day or two later.

Phil
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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:24

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:24
Really the only way to be sure is ask the manufacturer which weight they quote. Toyota brochures have it one way others have it the other
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:49

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:49
I am about to have a GVM upgrade on my D-Max by ARB. They tell me they do not weigh the vehicle just add, in my case 300 kg's, to its GVM. At the end of the day you must keep within the GVM so get it weighed when in touring mode with a full tank. What it weighs empty at the end means nothing when pulled over and checked.
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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 13:14

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 13:14
The obvious reason for asking is that if you have a payload of xxxkg do you add it to the Tare weight or the Kerb weight as it would give two different loaded weights. It should however have the GVM on the compliance plate

GVM is NOT a weighable weight it is a plated limit and is a weight that should not be exceeded.

What a lot think is the GVM is better described as " Actual loaded weight" which should not exceed the plated GVM. It also includes the towball weight when towing.

Best to load it up and take it to the scales, then go home and unload half of it to get back to legal weight LOL
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 13:18

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 13:18
Chris,

Have you investigated how your loading affects your rear axle weight? IE, with your Spacecab, can you get enough forward weight distribution when you load up so that you don't hit rear axle weight limit before GVM or the proposed increased GVM.

I have a BT50 dual cab and got a GVM upgrade. I have since found I cannot use the increased GVM without exceeding the rear axle weight limit. Particularly with towball weight (160kg) in the equation. I think Baz the Landy had a similar situation with his rig.

You will be paying considerable $$ for the engineering certification for the upgrade. You may be better off $$ wise just getting the suspension and not the certified upgrade.

Your Spacecab configuration with more load space forward of the axle may keep you out of trouble in this regard, but it's worth checking if you haven't already.

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 17:45

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 17:45
Howdy...

A couple of things, when working out the "basic empty weight" of my vehicle I stripped out everything that wasn't fixed or bolted in. I also put in a full tank of fuel, this way you can back solve the precise weight of fuel and subtract that from the weight when you put it over the scales.

This will then give you a basic empty weight to work from.

I then use a load sheet to work out precisely what has gone into the vehicle, including fuel, add it to the basic empty weight to arrive at the loaded weight.

Now don't worry, I don't do this every time I head down the driveway, but always before going "on tour".

On GVM upgrades, the absolute limit of the GVM is one thing, the other is the individual axle limits.

In my case, the GVM upgrade by Lovell's gave me a GVM of 3,900kg, which is above the combined axle limits of 3,780kg - Lovell's managed to get this approval for the 79 Series, no-one else has it. Having said that, the limiting factor for me loading the vehicle is the rear axle limit, not the actual GVM.

When I had a rear axle modification done I dropped the GVM back to 3,780kg to ensure compliance with the modification. In reality it had no impact as this was generally the maximum I could go to in any case without overloading the rear axle.

You can read more about it in my blog ...

When more is a burden...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 17:55

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 17:55
I meant to add...

On fuel, I can carry up to 250 litres in two tanks. Clearly this adds a fair bit of weight (250 litres x specific gravity of diesel) say 205kg.

To calculate the weight of fuel remaining in the vehicle I simply take distance travelled since last refuel at the average consumption rate of the vehicle (I monitor this closely) and convert to kilograms.

It all might sound pedantic to some, but it does give me a fairly accurate reading on the weight of the vehicle, in the least I know that I am loaded within vehicle parameters.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: GarryR - Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 08:22

Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 08:22
Hi there Chris, When you stated that ARB are doing a GVM upgrade, do you mean that all they are doing is a suspension upgrade for your D-Max and not a certified GVM upgrade. I have been through this scenario with ARB. Yes they can upgrade your suspension BUT will not supply compliance certificate for Vicroads or Statory Body to make it a legal upgrade. On my research, there is a company in Keilor Vic that will do an upgrade using Lovell's parts, and will supply ugraded placards for your vechile that are legal. My only other alternative is to get what ARB have done inspected by vechile engineers, who will then test your vechile and apply for upgraded GVM. If it does not meet their specs, you have just wasted your money to get a legal upgrade. By the way, this Keilor company will not approve ARB suspension for an upgrade and will replace it with there Lovell's parts. Hope this helps as I have fallen into this trap.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 13:01

Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 13:01
Gents,

I've just been through this exercise, GVM upgrade, with the purchase of a new Landcruiser single cab ute, in late September.

The dealer uses an Ironman GVM upgrade, certified to 3,900kgs. A few hundred$$$$'s cheaper than the Lovell kit, so we'll see how it performs in the long term. Have already done a Simpson crossing moderately loaded(4 x 20L jerrycans, 2 fridges, 2nd spare, 80L water, tucker, stretcher, swag and other "stuff") and it rode well, and still sits level!

A word of warning prior to signing the final papers..........check the rego paper, that the new GVM is actually in the vehicle details. Mine wasn't and the salesman had to hurriedly get it altered.



After doing a lot of clicks over the past 5-6 years, I believe there would be a huge number of 4wds that are at or over GVM. And not including all the 'vanners towing their home on wheels. I weighed our old ute, bull bar, heavy tray, 80L water tank, full fuel, tow bar and aluminium camper("400kgs, said the maker", and who'd disagree, alloy is light, just look how light a Coke can is!) and it was 3700kgs......only 400kg over, and the Boss hadn't even climbed aboard. Will see where we can prune some weight for future trips.......

Bob
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 08:44

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 08:44
I got a ARB GVM upgrade before rego on my Dmax extra cab , it's a 270kg increase , max rear axle rating , my GVM now is 3220Kg .
I did ask how the 270kg was spread between the front and rear axle all l got was a blank look .
Like someone said above you can be over on one axle and still be under GVM .

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:47

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:47
Hi there Chris.

We found an engineer to do our GVM upgrade from the ACT RTA site. They have a list of engineers and businesses that they have approved to do the engineering and vehicle modification report.

We then took the big wad of paper over to the pits for an inmspection. They gave me a new compliance plate to get engraved and stuck on the door sill. After the plate was engraved and installed we did a final visit to the inspectors and they signed their part of the paperwork. All done. We also got the rego changed to show seating for 5.

I still can't see how the car can have just seven seats and a passenger limit of eight on the original compliance plate. Strange . . . . . No confusion now!!

Best to get it done before rego but it can still be done post initialrego.

Take care mate.

Phil

PS Did you see the Geo centre episode on TV with Pat?
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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 23:11

Sunday, Nov 22, 2015 at 23:11
Ya need to be realy carfull with the various published weights.
Pretty much nothing the manufacturer publishes will have the fuel tanks full ...... unless it specifically states as such.

Cant remember the detail but Kerb weight is usually with the fuel tank only partly full. .. various nomonated amounts of fuel in the tank.

When it comes to station waggons...... you realy do not have much to play with so you can not affort to trust anything you have not proven yourself....... there are so many people driving 4wd station waggons around blissfully unaware that they are overloaded.

Pretty much if you brim the tanks and put 4 typical adults and their swags in most station waggons you have enought spare payload to but a slab and an esky of food in the back before ya load alowance is busted ..... that is before you fit barwork, roof racks and accessories.

Oh and don't forget you permissable axle loadings.

One other trap for young players is ball weight ........ even if you have 300KG of spare GVM and otherwise well loaded ...... putting 300KG on the ball can put you well over the rear axle loading ...duse to the leverage omposed by the overhang.

Sigmund you are wise t ask this question ..... most do not have the forethaught.

OH and when it comes to caravans and worst of all slide on campers ..... do not believe what is written on the plate ...... trust only what you weigh.

cheers

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Reply By: Supersi - Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 20:41

Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 20:41
Like other after market accessory suppliers ARB offer a GVM upgrade. From my current experience in this exercise with a brand new BT 50 the GVM upgrade is conditional on replacing the suspension with their product, cost for the BT 50 is approx. $2.5k. For a further $300.00 I was issued with the ARB GVM upgrade documentation and compliance plate. As this was done on a brand new and not yet registered vehicle the compliance is nationally recognised. I understand (might be mistaken) that a GVM upgrade on an already registered vehicle is only recognised in the state of issue, not nationally.

The GVM upgrade on the BT 50 is based on increasing the rear axle load rating to the manufacturers maximum. For the BT 50 this provided a 130kg increase, at a cost of $300, in addition to the suspension upgrade.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 22:01

Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 22:01
"I understand (might be mistaken) that a GVM upgrade on an already registered vehicle is only recognised in the state of issue, not nationally."

Only if the vehicle's state of registration is changed. It's recognised nationally if you're just travelling.

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 22:13

Monday, Nov 23, 2015 at 22:13
Frank is correct, GVM is nationally recognised regardless of when it is done. The only difference as Frank points out is that if changing the registration on a vehicle that has had its GVM upgraded post initial registration is that it wold need to be approved in the new sate of registration.

Generally this will never be a problem...after all ARB, Lovell's or anyone else offering these GVM upgrades offer them in all states in any case.

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:57

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:57
Does this State/National recognition apply also to other 'plated' modifications such as seating capacity and fuel tank upgrade?
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:27

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:27
I don't know for sure, Allan, but logic would suggest it does. I hope someone can give you a more definite answer.

A question ... Is an upgraded fuel tank a "plated" modification requiring certification? I am unaware of any such requirement in NSW and have never seen any discussion about it.

Can anyone advise?

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:49

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:49
Thanks Frank. My logic also suggested "yes". But I'm not planning on moving interstate so it is philosophical anyway.

When ARB (Qld) upgraded the rear fuel tank in my Troopy it required an Engineer's certification with a plate. So did the removal of the bench seats and the change of front seats from the original to a pair of Stratos buckets. I'm running out of room for 'plates'. lol

Consequently, if the answer to the above is "yes", then there would need be multiple re-certifications!
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Allan

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:58

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:58
Yes on both counts.

To the first question on modifications being recognised in other States, as long as it has been certified it will be recognised. If the vehicle is re-registered in another State the modification would need to be (re) certified in that State.

I understand there has been a lot of work around ensuring a national certification program/code for engineers. That is to say, having a set standard across all States that engineers need to meet to be able to undertake certifications.

On the second point in relation to fuel tanks, yes, if you add another fuel tank to your vehicle in NSW it will require certification, alternatively if you replace the current fuel tank and the new one requires different mounting it would also need certification.

Like many things it isn’t a problem until something happens or it comes to the attention of authorities.

You can read some more on the due diligence I undertook when adding an additional and changing the original fuel tank on “The Landy”.

Modifications - Fuel Tanks

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 13:23

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2015 at 13:23
Whew Baz, re the earlier thread you referenced!
And, as you said..... "bear in mind non-compliance may have unintended consequences in the future."
Cheers
Allan

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