Nissan Navara 2011 D40 brake padel slowly going too the floor

Submitted: Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 09:28
ThreadID: 130992 Views:6965 Replies:7 FollowUps:8
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I have a 2011 Navara and had to put new longer rear brake line hoses, bled rear brakes until there wasn't any air. Without motor running the brake pedal will sink down to the floor, and now the right front feels as if it comes on later than it should. Has anybody had similar issues?
If you look on the WEB there are a heap of guys saying replaced the master cylinder but it did not fix the problem.
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Reply By: tim_c - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 09:52

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 09:52
If you're confident there's no air in the system, you should check the system for leaks - the pedal won't sink unless there's a leak somewhere or some air to compress.
AnswerID: 593180

Follow Up By: Paul K11 - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:06

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:06
There is no leaks and no air. If I clamp off all the brake hoses the pedal still goes all the way down. By doing this I am eliminating all the calipers and drums from the test. As stated previously there are quite a few of posts on the web re Navara pedals slowly going to the fall, NPS ( a brake specialty store ) has even produced a flyer stating that replacing the master cylinder will not fix the problem.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:33

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:33
Noted, but the pure physics say that the pedal won't sink unless fluid is escaping somewhere - liquids simply don't compress (that's why fluid is used in the brake system).
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:41

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:41
Did you have this problem before replacing those rear brake hoses? If you did not have this problem before you carries out the work then it was caused by you, probably in the bleeding process. Do you have all the necessary equipment that the Nissan repair people would use to bleed the brakes? You can not use the simple bleeding process that we did before anti lock brake systems were introduced.



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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 13:24

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 13:24
Being a later model vehicle they may have some electronic method of proportioning the front to rear brake circuits other than the ABS system. If it has a height sensitive valve for the rear circuit to increase rear brake bias as you load the vehicle, the bleeding process needs to be done at that valve before doing the rear slave cylinders.
If it doesn't have such a valve and the problem has only shown up after fitting the longer brake hoses it may be that the pressure in the lines is causing these hoses to expand as you apply the brakes.
As said liquid, in this case brake fluid, is for all pratical purposed, incompressable. That being the case fluid must be bypassing a seal somewhere.

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: Ross M - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 15:17

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 15:17
I agree with Pop J, that if the rear is lifted and has a lever type valve in the circuit, the bias may have to be reset to normal so the front which does at least 80% of all baking will operate as normal.

It is common for many new vehicle to have pedals which sink down slowly. The fluid leaks back past the two primary cups on the master cylinder pistons.
Nissans/toyota/Hyundai/Honda etc etc all do it.

If a sudden application and holding down of the pedal does retain pedal height it is an indicator the cups are leaking. The National Recall manager knows of ALL vehicle which do it, he told me which ones when I enquired.

No new master cylinder is needed, just a new set of cups in the master cylinder is what is required. However, in a throwaway society the whole unit new may be cheaper. Depends on where you search or what you find.

The variation to this IS. If the vehicle has never ACTUALLY had any brake fluid beld through the system since new, corrosion may have formed in the bottom of the master cylinder bore just in frnt of where the primary cups move to under braking.
When bleeding the system, the pedal then goes down further and BOTH cups now travel over the corrosion in the bore. That then totals the cups and replacement cups OR perhaps a master cylinder IS then required.
ALL because of absolutely no correct servicing of the brake system at service time. This is COMMON. Dealers know if they never real bleed the system, but only suck out and replace the reservoir fluid, it looks like it has been done but it hasn't. corrosion builds up and destroys the system.

I suspect it was dealer induced redundancy. Seen it many times.
AnswerID: 593198

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 17:56

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 17:56
I personally would take it to a dealer and get them to bleed the system and /or diagnose the problem. Regards , Michael
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 21:02

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 21:02
I think I would do that too. With all the lines and chambers etc in the ABS system, I suspect there will be a special procedure that is required to do it properly.
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Reply By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 17:57

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 17:57
Did you run your master cylinder dry when you replaced the hoses? If so you have a challenge in front of you.
AnswerID: 593204

Reply By: Paul K11 - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 18:54

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 18:54
Spoke to NBS in Shepparton again today and they explain that the D40 series does have brake pedal issues, soft - low pedal and they said that there isn't a fix. I am a mechanic, running a shop for of 29 years and have come across a similar fault that you would expect to be a faulty master cylinder, yet all the parts suppliers are telling me that a new master will not fix the problem.
Surely someone else has had the same issue with a D40?
AnswerID: 593206

Reply By: lancie49 - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 19:41

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 19:41
Were these vehicles built with this problem as a standard feature from new ?
If so, a poor piece of work, and Nissan need a kick in the bum.
If the issue is supplied as a compulsory option, Nissan need a kick in the bum.

Either way, I can't believe there is no actual diagnosis and/or fix for the problem.
AnswerID: 593207

Follow Up By: phil300 - Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 20:31

Friday, Nov 27, 2015 at 20:31
easy fix just start the engine.Mine is the same pedal slowly to the floor with engine off ok when running 2010 stx. dealer said they all do it.
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Follow Up By: Member - mechpete - Sunday, Nov 29, 2015 at 16:12

Sunday, Nov 29, 2015 at 16:12
lancie.

clearly you are not up with the late model vehicles , it is not uncommon to have the pedal slowly creep to the end of its travel , early MBenz Sprinter vans used to do it .I questioned the RWC regs , RWC reg roadworthy act used to read , if does not creep down within a so many seconds time its roadworthy .
check the current RWC regs they may have changed
cheers mechpete
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Reply By: Member - Charlie M (SA) - Saturday, Nov 28, 2015 at 09:01

Saturday, Nov 28, 2015 at 09:01
Hi Paul
Did you bleed the proportional valve as well as the brake cylinders.
My HiAce needed that done when the brake fluid was changed.
Had to pump the brakes a bit and would slowly go down, and soft pedal.
Cheers
Charlie
AnswerID: 593217

Follow Up By: Paul K11 - Saturday, Nov 28, 2015 at 09:38

Saturday, Nov 28, 2015 at 09:38
Yes, bled the proportional valve as well.
Brakes work fine when engine is running.
Only goes down to the floor when you have constant pressure and the motor isn't running.
We'll end this here.
Thanks to all that have replied.
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FollowupID: 861402

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