downsizing what vehicle

Submitted: Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 19:56
ThreadID: 131394 Views:1941 Replies:9 FollowUps:19
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considering leaving defender 110 with plenty of space and wondering what type of car to replace it with. obviously will not need the same room now that there is only two own us.
what do people recommend.
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Reply By: Notso - Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 20:07

Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 20:07
What do you want to do with it?
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Follow Up By: dpserle@bigpond.com - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 19:26

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 19:26
still want to do outback tracks but don't
need the inside space anymore.
is a lifted forrester or a for runner the answer?
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Follow Up By: Notso - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 21:26

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 21:26
Look at the twin cab derivatives Ford Everest, Holden Colorado 7, Isuzu MUX. Even a Kia Sorento would do the job.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:15

Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:15
If you are talking about Subaru's I can speak from experience as I'm a member of the Subaru club and been on dozen's of trips with modified Forester's and Outbacks. I can tell you they are fine off road up to a point. Outback tracks, beaches and fire trails up to a reasonable steepness are no problem. You'll need a decent set of AT tyres perhaps 1 size larger than standard for a little bit extra lift. You can't lift little SUV's much without hitting CV trouble because the angle changes on the drive shaft.
As a point of interest, I traded my Outback for a Land Rover Freelander 2 back in 2008 and it runs rings around any Subaru, X-Trail, RAV 4 or similar. The Subarus etc only have 28" tyres while the Landy will take 31" and the power and traction control on the Landy is far superior. Mine's been through the Simpson, Border Track, beaches everywhere and the Vic High Country, done almost 250k and been an excellent car. I just thought I'd throw that in if you wanted to stay in the "family". :-)
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Thursday, Jan 21, 2016 at 13:10

Thursday, Jan 21, 2016 at 13:10
Michael, with Foresters one-size-up A/T's and a 1" lift is about it. However that doesn't limit them too much. See here for what one bunch are getting up to later this year. But whether that class of vehicle suits the O.P. is his call.
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 21:24

Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 21:24
I sold my old patrol wagon as I wanted a ute. Did six months research and drove most utes. In the end it was between the BT50, Ranger and Amarok. In the end I chose the Rok and have not regrated my decision. I love it. Almost all reviews I have read have rated those vehicles the best three.

I suggest that you look at those vehicles. The 4wd ute sector is the fasted growing in the auto industry because they are so versatile.

It however comes down to what your needs are. What you intend to do with the vehicle.
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Reply By: Nutta - Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 22:34

Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 22:34
Just remember theres no low range in the rok.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 22:57

Monday, Jan 18, 2016 at 22:57
It's only the auto that has no low range, manuals have a normal dual range box. 4x4 Australia did a test with the 8 utes in the latest mag. The new Hilux won overall but they did go to great lengths to say that the Amarok auto with no low range was the only ute to make it up their extreme hill climb test without any traction aids turned on. I think we will be getting used to auto boxes with a wide range of gears and torquey motors in the future eventually replacing dual range boxes.
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Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 08:19

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 08:19
I didn't know that about the low range manual.

Auto might be okay on a hill but not much help bogged on a beach.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 09:25

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 09:25
No, VW don't make much, if any, mention of dual range on their website. You just about have to sit in one to find out unless you watch Pat Callinan :-) The 8 speed auto with the low first gear is great in most situations, the torque converter makes up for the low range fairly well. What is a concern if you need low range reverse. I'm not sure the reverse gear is as good, haven't heard anyway. The other thing is having to use hill descent control instead of decent gearing down long steep hills. The brakes are squealing by the end especially on a hot day.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 10:54

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 10:54
Owning a Rok I know how the gearing works.

Michael H9 is generally correct.

The auto does not need a low range. With eight gears they have the ratios so that 1st gear is in effect low range. This means you effectively have low and high range in one gearbox.

1st gear high range in most vehicles is the same as 3rd gear low range so you only gain an extra two gears. Hence with an 8 speed auto it is configured so low and high range are in the one gearbox.

The only drawback is that reverse is a normal high range ratio.

As for his last comment on squealing brakes. You can select 1st gear and it will stay in that gear, assisting in a hill descent. The Rok auto doing this does hill decent better than most autos. Hill decent is always a problem with an auto box.

I have driven over 65,000 kms including sand and I have not found the lack of low range an issue.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:19

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:19
I have a baby Land Rover with an auto box, no low range and special traction programs and I'm very happy with its 4wd ability. I've done most of the Vic High country in it and it didn't miss not having low range. My comment about the hill descent control springs from my experience with it. The brakes get a real hiding in summer going down long hills like Billy Goat's with mine locked in 1st gear as well. I was assuming similar for the Amarok but I'm happy to be wrong. The Amarok is my 1st choice at the moment as my next replacement car.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:40

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:40
Michael

I have not done a long hill like billy goats with mine yet. I will find out when I do it.
You would love the Rok if you got one.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:47

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:47
Certainly in my Landie when you are in low range with the correct gear selected the TC in the auto locks up so you get full engine braking - really HDC is not needed and is crude in its operation compared to just selecting the correct gear (noisy and shudders - though never had brake fade).

I assume the Amarok is the same - when in low range first/second with the manual and 1st in the auto it will crawl down a hill the same as any other 4wd.

Many people think a 4wd without low range is not a 4wd - it is just that the popular 4wds have/need a low range so most think that is as it should be.

My little Haflinger does not have low range, nor a transfer case, just a low first and as such overall gearing in first is lower than most full on modern 4wds. So we need to look at overall gearing not whether it has a low range or not.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 13:24

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 13:24
I doubt you will get the engine braking in the auto that you get in the manual. The auto's 1st gear ratio is 4.714, not as good as the manual's 4.82 in high range. The VW spec sheets don't say anything about low range so good luck finding that out. Reverse gear is even worse, 4.37 in the manual high range and 3.3 in the auto. The auto torque converter is responsible for a lot of the work in the auto. I know in a long climb up Mt Pinnibar on a hot day that the auto temperature light starts to give warnings on my little car.
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Reply By: Malcom M - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 06:27

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 06:27
Why get rid of it.
Devil you know... Unless it has problems and it does what you need, just keep it. You know all its foibles and a new truck is going to cost you more plus is an unknown.

As others have said, how can anyone recommend anything when you haven't told us what you want to do with it. You say car so maybe a Corolla or a Lambo...
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 22:55

Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 22:55
Yes, you will not be downsizing if you go for the station wagon variation of the twin cab utes. Look at the comparative sizes

LR 110 1790 W X 4780 L
MU-X 1800 W X 4825 L

All you will get is a bit of a step up in refinement with a loss in off road ability.
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 10:56

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 10:56
An interesting comparison test.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/388419/ute-comparison-ford-ranger-v-holden-colorado-v-isuzu-d-max-v-mazda-bt-50-v-mitsubishi-triton-v-nissan-navara-v-toyota-hilux-v-volkswagen-amarok-2/

Very different results for the Hi-lux from 4X4 Magazine.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 14:25

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 14:25
Yes, one man's meat is another man's poison I suppose! You wouldn't like to think there was some other reason, would you?
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 14:36

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 14:36
What I found strange in the 4X4 Magazines comparisons and the Car advice comparisons are that they were almost identical except for the rating of the Hilux. A bit strange but from what I have read (from numerous sources) the new Hilux is an improvement on the old. Toyota has a lot of brand loyalty (for good reason) and will remain on top of 4x4 sales. Jeremy Clarkson said that Toyotas are boring because they don't break down.
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Reply By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 14:44

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 14:44
Just a reminder that the Op is wanting to downsize from a Defender yet all the options suggested are either the same size or larger.

I am not sure what you could downsize to, if you want a proper 4wd - are short wheel base Prados and Pajeros still made? What about a Defender 90???

I think some of the Hyundais are still dual range - or even a later model Suzuki Vitara.

If a softroader is Ok well there are plenty of options - even in the Landrover family - Disco Sport, Freelander 2, or even an Evoque.

As mentioned all the other options like the dual cab utes and 4wd wagons are the same size or larger than a 110 Defender.

It all depends on what your use is likely to be.

Good luck with the search.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Top End Az - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 17:12

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 17:12
How about something like a Subaru Outback? It's an AWD, not 4x4, but still a wagon with some ground clearance, traction control, hill descent control and fairly handy for general touring. Otherwise an X-Trail? Couple of suggestions there.

I had a RAV4 that was the last of the permanent AWD models; you would be surprised where you can take them.
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Reply By: putrol4.2 - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 17:03

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 17:03
keep the 110 it would be better than any of the new utes out there as a 4wd & if you don't need the room its probably smaller than a dual cab ute
AnswerID: 595165

Follow Up By: Member - mark D18 - Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 18:31

Tuesday, Jan 19, 2016 at 18:31
Yep you are right on . All the utes mentioned are softer 4x4 options at least the 110 will go almost anywhere and will outlast the others.

Cheers
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Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 14:24

Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 14:24
The problem you've got, is there simply are very few small or even what would have been considered medium sized 4wds on the market any more ...... thay have pretty much all been overfed and bloated.

The landcruiser that was reasonably light if a little spartan back in the days of the 40 series has nearly doubled in weight to become the bloated SUV that it now is. ..... the Patrol has suffered a similat fate.

The Hilux never was any smaller than the landcruiser though a lot lighter ...... its now been bloated out and is bigger, heavier and more powerefull than the early Landcruiser ...... The Nissan, Mazda, Ford, and holden ....all the light utes have suffered the same fate. ..... The Prado that started out as the station waggon version of the hilux ... the light 4wd in the range has also bloated out till it is not all that much smaller then the Landcruiser

Even the RAV that started out as the 4wd equavalent of the Corrola, so light in many sutuations the lack of a low range was not a problem ...... it has bloated out to being bigger, heavier and more powerfull than an early Falcon and has lost much of its original appeal.

An the same has happened right across the range of brands.

It could be argued that the X trail still fills the small 4wd gap .... but its small wheels let it down

The only respectabl real Light 4wd's on the market are the Suzukis ........ The Siera is no question a capable little vehicle, and a hell of a lot of fun ..... but possibly a bit small, would you want to tour in one....... I've driven a couple of Vitaras ..... well built vehicles and quite capable ..... but still have that high revving motor rinG a dinG sort of quality ...... though I know someone who dragged a camper trailer all over the country with one.

The question ya gota ask ...... is it worth the cost of the changeover and the cost and inconvienience of setting up a new vehicle.

cheers

AnswerID: 595190

Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 23:37

Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016 at 23:37
If there's only the two of you, I'd suggest one of the kingcab/spacecab utes would be highly suitable.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Jan 21, 2016 at 09:22

Thursday, Jan 21, 2016 at 09:22
And also much larger than the existing vehicle



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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:52

Thursday, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:52
I don't know that I'd agree with "much larger". The 110 overall width is 1790mm, the current Hilux spacecab is 1730mm wide. 60mm narrower there.
The 110 height is around 1968 or 2021mm depending on tyres fitted. The Hilux is 1835mm high. At least 135mm less height in the Hilux.
The main gain with a space cab is in the wheelbase - 110" or 2795mm for the 110 - 121.5" or 3085mm for the Hilux.
The major gain in the move to a kingcab/spacecab is in having a sizeable tray, the cabin area is much smaller on a kingcab/spacecab, than a 110 station wagon.

The only other alternative is a much shorter wheelbase 4x4, such as the Suzuki.
Personally, I'd never own a SWB 4x4 in a fit - the choppy, bouncy ride will soon make driving very unpleasant, on all but the smoothest highways.
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