2 stroke in diesel

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 16:26
ThreadID: 131502 Views:2620 Replies:5 FollowUps:11
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Yes I'm tearing open that can and leaving this here: http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-technical-study.php
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 17:21

Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 17:21
Yeah, I think we have been down this track before. I think I got about 2/3 of the way through it before eye glazing set in. If I ever decide to move to South Africa I may bother to read the rest again.

Do I use it? Yes I do, but in my old low tech pre CRD engine. If, as is most likely, I do sell my old beast and upgrade to a new one with all the relevant engine management electronics and a CRD engine would I put 2 stroke in? Not a chance. In the unlikely event of a failure during the warranty period I am not giving the manufacturer an extra bullet to shoot my claim down with. In addition I know that the newer injection systems operate at pressures many times what the older ones do. With these systems injector fouling may very well become an issue.

As to the claims of mega power increases accompanied by better fuel economy.
Just my experiences. I have never run my vehicle over a dyno but a "seat of the pants" evaluation tells me I can not descern any improvement or reduction in the power department.
Fuel consumption? Once again if there is any improvement or reduction, it is too small for me to measure. No extra or reduced exhaust smoke either.

So why do I bother? I do notice a much reduced noise level from the mechanical fuel injection pump. To me noise reduction should mean less wear in any mechanical component. I use the cheapest non synthetic 2 stroke I can buy. I add 400 ml to an 80 liter tank when filling.
I have been using it for about 3 years or more and so far no injector fouling or other negatives I can notice. I have to say I am not pendantic about it in as much as if the tank is not empty I just take a guess and add a bit or not depending on how much of a hurry I am in.

So I guess those who choose to continue to use it. Go for it if that is your choice. According to that test data there was no measurable increase in exhaust nasties.
Those who choose not to. Also have that option.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - Ups and Downs - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 09:58

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 09:58
I agree with Pop.

I only use around 100-200 ml per tank and guess when to stop pouring it in. At 400,000km, I believe that the lower noise level is quite obvious.

Paul
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 17:40

Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 17:40
Gday
I have been putting 2/ in my fuel tanks on and off for 50 + years, so far no problems, all i can see is that there is a bit more lubricant in the system , and it cant hurt otherwise my injectors would be leaking. Its a personal thing, i could use engine oil , or caster oil just for the smell , but i dont know where to buy it .
Muzbry
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Reply By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 21:05

Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 21:05
I use C-Tech diesel additive and have done for all my fourbies. (3)

No quantitive results from an injector service yet from my D4D but I will be looking closely at them when they are replaced.
I will also be looking at the amount of clogging done in EPG tank.

I have been told that the fuel system will be cleaner, the EGR lines will be less dirty including the throttle body (Yes I know diesels don't have them but the throat under the intercooler looks like one) and the injectors will perform better and for a longer time.

I would like a study done on these additives.

bill
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Follow Up By: Roachie Silverado - Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 22:02

Saturday, Jan 30, 2016 at 22:02
I also use Chemtech additive in my Chev's Duramax engine.

However, due to the potential high cost of injectors and pump replacement, I wanted to go one step further to protect everything. That is whay I fitted a FASS 150:

http://www.fassride.com/shop/fuel-air-separation-systems/fass-titanium-series.php#chevy_tab

Here is an interesting video that helped convince me to do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4LCbGsujdU

Roachie
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:03

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:03
Gday Mr Roach
I just watched that film and saw that the gent didnt agitate the fuel for his product . Therefore there was less air in the fuel for his product to suck. To my way of looking at the demo, it was not of equal value to both filter systems.
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Reply By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 06:31

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 06:31
Thanks for posting this. It reads well and as far as I can judge is from a reputable source.

I have had an old LC for quite a while and have been tempted to add 2 stroke oil but did not due to inertia and the feeling that the oil companies would have addressed this when the low sulphur changes came in. I know big companies often do not do the right thing but this was pretty fundamental.

I have now sold the old troopy and only have a modern beast to worry about. Pump diesel seems to tick the boxes.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 09:41

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 09:41
While I don't believe adding small quantities of oil to diesel does any harm, I'm sure car companies would have complained by now if the pump diesel wasn't up to the job.

Millions of diesel engines run fine on pump fuel, and I haven't seen a proper study that proves adding oil prolongs the life of pumps or injectors ?

The old placebo effect, if it makes you feel good, why not, it's not hurting anyone else !!
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:32

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:32
Car manufacturers also add things to vehicles like egr systems that are very lazy solutions for them to address govco standard for emissions.
They don't really care if a fuel pump or injectors need replacing after 100k / 150k etc, in fact they love it !!
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 20:48

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 20:48
It's well-known amongst the old Caterpillar aficionados, that adding a litre of 2-stroke oil to a tank of diesel on an old Cat ensures a lot less fuel problems as regards sticking injectors and injector pumps - and it generally cleans up old fuel systems that are full of gums and varnishes (which gather with heat, age, and standing around).

I've had a Lister engine injector pump element seize up solid, just from being unused for a few years.
The plunger stuck solid in the injection pump barrel with the buildup of gum from diesel cooking in the heat of the sun.

However, old Cat engines are a different kettle of fish to even Jap diesels of the 80's.
The old Cats were high-tolerance engines, they could take a lot of abuse, they had relatively low injection pressures, and they used precombustion chambers to assist in fuel burning poor-quality fuel.
Their injection pump and injector design harked back to the early 1930's.

However, modern Jap high-speed diesels are pretty picky on the fuel put through them, and you must know what's in your additives before you put anything in.
The bloke writing the article is a highly competent chemist/engineer and he certainly appears to have done his research properly.

One has to remember that fuel companies are tinkering with fuel additives all the time and watching for problems.
The oil companies do a lot of research, and are up to speed on fuel problems and developments.
Regular pump diesel already has lubricity improvers, and a number of other additives to keep injection systems clean and promote good fuel burn.

However, all this is only as good as how well the fuel you use has been stored. There's a lot of storage tanks around that have both water and dirt in them and they don't provide top-class fuel.
In addition, there are servos around that have slow fuel turnover, which doesn't assist with getting fresh clean fuel.

I like to get my fuel from servos that are particularly busy, that are well located (not on flats where water can get into tanks via vents when there's a flood event), and where the fuel you're getting is fresh and clean.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 20:58

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 20:58
Car manufacturers also add things to vehicles like egr systems that are very lazy solutions for them to address govco standard for emissions.

What would you suggest is not a "lazy" solution ??

Modern diesels are a very different kettle of fish to the old clunkers and dislike any contaminants, and why I won't add anything to the diesel...unless I see proof otherwise !
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 22:06

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 22:06
Well the new adblue systems coming on line now in some vehicles, not a system like egr that turns your inlet manifold into a tarred up mess.
Even a catch can would help, eliminating the oil most going back in to mix with egr particulates and form the tar.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Tuesday, Feb 02, 2016 at 12:54

Tuesday, Feb 02, 2016 at 12:54
Adblue doesn't negate egr systems and catch cans are not "legal".

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 02, 2016 at 12:57

Tuesday, Feb 02, 2016 at 12:57
Gronk,

A catch can that retains the closed circuit IS legal.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Tuesday, Feb 02, 2016 at 19:43

Tuesday, Feb 02, 2016 at 19:43
Adblue does eliminate the need for egr, and catch cans fitted correctly are legal.
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 20:32

Sunday, Jan 31, 2016 at 20:32
I use Pro-Ma DT5 in a '89 Isuzu 5-tonner, that I bought early last year with 700,000 kms on the clock, and with a completely original motor.

When I first got it, it was a little smokey (mostly black smoke, indicating overfuelling or poor injector atomising performance).

After 5 tanks of fuel the engine is starting a lot faster, is producing less smoke - and the fuel consumption has improved by around 7-8%.

Initially, fuel consumption was around 22.5L/100km, now it's dead steady on 20.8L/100km.
I use 1ml of DT5 to 1 litre of diesel. The tank is 160L, so I put in around 150ml each time I fill up from empty.

I must confess - I bought a 20L drum (full) of DT5 at an auction for $20! - so I haven't exactly paid retail pricing for it!
I think a 20L drum retails for about $400! I know people are selling 5 litres of DT5 for $133!

But even at retail pricing with the 5 litre drum, it would cost around $4 to treat the tankful of fuel with the DT5 - and say, with a 7.5% fuel consumption improvement, that means a saving of 11.25 litres of diesel on each tankful - which is at least $12 on current city prices.

That's before the benefits of injector cleaning and better fuel burn, creating a cleaner exhaust, are considered as well.

Cheers, Ron.
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