Single burner butane gas stoves

It's the way they are used . The minister or others do not report how the people were using them at the time.

I Believe Idler Chris is on the money . I have used one for years as well AS YOUR MEANT TOO. per the instructions.

Maybe we should throw away all our cars as well , because I know for sure if you do not use them properly out on the road you will have a accident for sure.

Again all this rubbish surfaces to protect the FEW who don't read or follow instruction , have an accident , and it's everybody else's fault.

So let's ban everything in case some don't use it properly.

What he said, bin it and buy a new one. $25-$30 or a helicopter ride and skin grafts?

I'm told the gas cans haven't changed, so you can still use your stock of them.

Appreciate your opinion Greg but they are twice what we paid for ours in 2009.

Thanks

Still to drive the Googs track mate. Too many hospital things and I can only skip so many.

Phil

Sorry Phil, you have lost me. They cost about ~$25 now which is close on nothing. Why bother taking the additional risk. And you will have the added benefit of having a wife more at ease while making her a cuppa. And we all know the saying ..a happy wife is a .....

Cheers
Greg

That's a better price. The price is irrelevant anyway as others have said and I agree. I did a brief search and found some for more than $30. We only paid $16 each for two.

Catchya

Phil

New canisters do not blow up I have box of them

Don't own a wok. Rather a good steak and vegetables.

Phil

Just spat coffee all over my computer. Nothing so funny as irony.

Your point well put Allan.

Phil

Gday Allan
Just one question, "What do you cook with when on the road?"

Hi Muz,

We cook with a 2 burner folding camp stove connected with 60cm hose to a 4kg LPG bottle.

Really would like to see some statistics on how many of the Suitcase cookers sold / blown up / people killed / burnt compared to the same for the 2 burner camp stove connected to a 4 / 9 kg cylinder ….. bet u a beer or 3 that one works out to be just as dangerous as the other...

I'm with you AllanB, they just look fundamentally wrong. I've camped with other guys who have them, they are all still alive and they've made me plenty of coffees and bacon and egg rolls, but I can't bring myself to buy one.
This coming from a bloke who has happily used a petrol stove for 25 years.......

I have to agree with Alloy c/t. There has only been a small handful of cases of people being burnt with butane stoves - and there have probably been near the same number burnt with LPG due to leaking hoses and fittings.

Some people can't be trusted with a rubber sword, they'd find a way to injure themselves with it.

Every type of flammable gas has to be treated with the necessary care and correct handling processes.

Allan seems to forget that he shares the road daily with hundreds of thousands of moving time bombs in the shape of LPG-fuelled vehicles. There's often a modest % of butane, in with the propane, in autogas.

How many of those vehicles have date-expired LPG tanks? Plenty, I'll wager! I know of a few!
How many date-expired LPG bottles are in current use?

There's no requirement to present LPG bottles on the day they expire for checking!
Thus, you're sharing roads, parks and campsites with time bombs galore!

I would hazard a guess, the biggest single problem is buying 2 stoves for $16, and expecting to get the finest engineered product around. You get what you pay for.

If users who never read instructions were banned from owning dangerous items, that would cut out 98% of the male 4WD population from owning anything dangerous!! LOL

Cheers, Ron.

I can't see anything wrong with Allan's post. He worked with gas and no doubt saw workplace videos that show what gas can do when not handled correctly. And he has a valid point.

It is up to us as individuals to weigh up these pro and against comments and choose our own path.

I really doubt that he has forgotten that gas is carried in cars and trucks. But you should remember that there are stringent standards that apply to cars and such like situations, unlike an almost casual approach to low pressure butane canisters. Even the word canister implies "simple and easy to . . . . ."!

A valid point from both. Thanks.

Phil

Gday Allan
When camping i use the same setup, but when just driving i use a deadly black canister stove , mainly because i am on my own.

.
"Allan seems to forget....etc."??? No not at all.

Ron, when it comes to safety, Allan doesn't "forget" anything. To work in hazardous industries for as many years as I did and survive probably means I was doing something right.
The essential element of safe behaviour is to always minimise your risk. That does not mean that you can always totally eliminate risk, but you can minimise it and improve your odds of remaining safe.

To introduce expressions of there being "date-expired LPG bottles' on the road has nothing whatever to do with the subject anymore than there are Inland Taipans in the areas we travel and camp. To do so perhaps indicates that your argument in opposition is weak and idefensible. We are speaking of butane canister powered stoves, not getting run-over-by-a-bus etc.

Certainly you could have accidents with bottle & hose connected stoves or even with a wood-fueler campfire but my point of view is that these canister systems are manufactured down to a low price and rely on a complex safety device to protect the user from potential injury. Far better to have a robust design which is intrinsically safe, allowing of course for adequate maintenance. There is always opportunity for irresponsible maintenance or operation, but removing any potentially unsafe element or component improves your odds of not having an incident.

I my opinion, bottle & hose stoves, if well selected and maintained, are reasonably robust appliances unlikely to inflict injury.
Canister stoves on the other hand are cheap appliances of flimsy construction with tinplate fuel canisters containing a lot of energy. They have small margins of safety.

But, it is of course, only my opinion. Use whatever you like..... just don't expect me to come within 5 metres of it when lit.

.
Phil,

Thank you for your supportive responses. Your Follow Up 865881 probably put my case as well, and shorter, than my response above.

Time to shake hands?

No decided which way to go yet,.

Do you know if the new canisters work on the "old" stoves?

Phil

Hi Robin

I don't know if you are correct there. An oxyacetylene torch is dangerous as well. So is a hammer and so is a car. But if used and maintained properly then you could say that they are all safe. And I am wondering if it isn't the same with these ever so handy small stoves. However, I am willing to secede to the ministers wishes and sometimes, whims. Don't tell her I said that.

What is different with this one is that so far all I see is troubles if they are not used correctly. Just as a hammer can destroy a fingernail (ouch that bloody well hurts) etc etc.

I am yet to see or read anything that makes them dangerous when using them as designed or instructed.

And for the record, the cost is irrelevant!!

Phil

I reckon the canister systems are far far far, beyond the horizon, safer...

If something goes wrong with a 4KG bottle there is enough gas to fill a stadium....

If something goes wrong with a 250 gram canister it is a lot less potential for a grave disaster

.
One significant point of difference is that 4kg LPG bottles are properly carried outside of the vehicle whereas it seems the norm that people carry cartons of butane cartridges within the vehicle.
250g of butane released from the cartridge can be quite a powerful explosion.

Robin,
Why do you say that "probably the worst is a normal gas bottle with its hose" ?

Hi Allan,,, just so I get the semantics correct (really have to do that here 8) "properly carried outside of the vehicle", does that include the 4kg bottles fitted into a gas cabinet, is that considered "properly carried outside of the vehicle"...
Im asking because, excluding caravans, Iv'e seen more gas cabinets than i've seen bottles out

Also, the kids filling my 4kg's at bcf had a nasty habit of overtightenning the overflow screw which detoriated the rubber seal on the screw leading to a tiny leak which barely sweat and is quite hard to diagnose without proper equipment

Couple of reasons Allan - leakage from hose is so common and dangerous that they run scary TV ads here about using soapy water around them, checking for leaks, before use.

Also I have been just a few meters from a butane stove when it blew up.
The characteristic of the explosion was quite similar to that of small hydrogen filled balloons.
(I worked with Radiosonde development around 1970's)

I.E. Lot of noise and big flash but not a lot of real energy.
The components of the stove separated into lightweight flimsy bits of sheet metal that didn't travel far.

Doesn't mean that they can't be dangerous , but in relative terms they impart less impact force.

Hi Landcoaster,

I should not have limited my expression to "4kg". All LPG bottles are safer carried outside the vehicle. There are some Rules about this. My use of the term "properly carried outside of the vehicle" is intended to mean "in accordance with appropriate Rules and good procedures". That would of course include LPG bottles carried and stored within cabinets or enclosures which are constructed and vented in accordance with industry and government prescriptions.

The very purpose of this method of ventilated storage is to overcome risk due to small leaks such as you describe. Incidentally, the bleed screw on LPG bottles has no "rubber seal". It has a metal-to-metal screw and seat. But yes, it can leak if damaged.

Stephen, do you know if the new cans will work with the old stoves?

Phil

Should be able to use with old stove as many people have never read about the idiots blowing them up.So the mechanism for connecting should be same.Otherwise be written on canister not to be used with old models.If you are wary checkout Expedition Australia website has list of banned stoves in NSW.Its bit like the Shark attack frenzy lets kill all the Sharks .More people die walking accross the road...but if you want to spend 20 bucks or so just buy new stove with the new canisters to play it safe..

I think that mine have been tested long enough. Thanks Iza.

Phil

Thanks mate I prefer the loose trivet and the fact that if it isn't in place you can't turn the gas or nor even make it spark. We may stay with the old ones. Double burners are out for us because I like the way the single burner ones fit in the drawers.

Phil

Sticking with the old stoves Bob.

They fit nicely side on in the front of the right hand drawer, with plenty of room for tools, spares and some recovery gear in the drawer as well. And then the whole left hand side drawer can still be kept for food and typical "kitchen" stuff.

The only heavy stuff is safely secured under a shelf that extends from the drawers to the rear of the drivers seat. The rest of the kit is bolted down and the only loose stuff is soft bags, towels etc and clothes. Meaning that we don't need a cargo barrier to the rear. I don't think that a pillow will hurt! Do you.

I mention all this because the car as described "works" for us and we can shower, dress, pack and get out of home in an hour or two. The biggest job is stacking the fridges and putting the roof top tent on the rack, and even that only takes me 20 minutes, while my wife stocks the fridges and puts the hose in the fresh water tank. Nothing like saying "Why don't we go for a drive today" and be gone before the pubic servant rush 5 minutes or by 8AM depending on how keen we are. Plans . . Stuff that - do it on the way.

Hence why I started this thread to weigh up the risks and see if we had to re-design our rear end layout!!!

Thanks mate

Phil

Phil

I know what you're saying - nothing like having to rush the "pubic servant" LOL

I have what I call my 15 min camping schedule.


15 min to load the truck with gear check and fuel it
15 min to pack - including clothes/food/water etc

Then gone....

15 min to set up camp (rtt, awning and kitchen)
15 min to light fire and have a beer

Any longer and it isnt worth it.

Cheers

Anthony

Not a problem. Come with us and you bring your own or you dip out and eat cold meals. That's one way of learning. Same with headlights. If people always tell you that you left your lights on, you won't learn and one day . . But Mummy no one told me that I had left them on Boohoo. Nothing like turning the key and nothing happens. It tends to scramble the "little grey cells" at first but then a lesson is learnt. Hopefully.

Interesting point about the insurance though.

Phil