GVM Upgrade

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 14:13
ThreadID: 131733 Views:2199 Replies:10 FollowUps:5
This Thread has been Archived
We have a 2010 dual cab SR5 hilux, with beefed up suspension being a Bilstein Platinum suspension kit 2" lift. Vehicle has all the usual gear, a winch and steel bar,canopy,roof rack,rear wheel kaymar wheel carrier and steel bumper,fridge,long range fuel tank etc. we have just upgraded to an off road pop top van which has a Tare weight:1900 kg and Gvm weight: 2300kg. My Lux towing weight is rated at 2250 kg.
With the suspension upgrade, I am sure the extra 50kg would be well covered, but also have to take in account all the extras. how do I find out or where do I go to get it checked to make sure ?
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: TomH - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 14:22

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 14:22
As I understand what you have said you have just beefed up the suspension but not done a full certified GVM upgrade which is a totally different thing and involves brakes and other things.
A GVM upgrade is just that it allows you to load more in the vehicle. It does NOT upgrade the towing capacity of said vehicle.
EG a lot of Cruisers have 200+kg GVm upgrades but they are still limited to the same towing weight and in some cases as with a 100ser it actually lowers your towed weight because your new GVM and the original towed limit would then exceed your GCM. Toyota state the GCM for a 100 ser but not a 200.
Have you ever weighed your Lux with it ready for war with the passengers and fully loaded but not hooked up with the van. WIth all your weighty extras you may be in for an unpleasant surprise. As the ball weight of the van must be included in the GVM.
The short answer is despite your suspension you van exceeds your Luxs capacity However if you dont load it beyond 2250kg you can tow it.
AnswerID: 596908

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 14:33

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 14:33
Your problem as described is nothing to do with the Hilux GVM, so an upgrade to that will not help.
Your problem is the tow capacity of the Hilux which you state as being 2250kg.
That is the maximum mass you are permitted to tow and the limit is the actual mass of the pop top, not its ATM (which you incorrectly describe as its GVM).

So if the actual weight of the pop top when fully loaded is below the tow capacity of 2250kg, you are legal, provided you don't exceed the GVM or GCM specified for the Hilux (you need to check them).

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
AnswerID: 596909

Reply By: Member - Roachie - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 15:51

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 15:51
I agree with what the previous 2 blokes have said....but I would also add this:

As I understand it, it is extremely difficult to get the GVM of your vehicle raised once it has been registered for the first time. I know of a lot of people who buy, for example, a new 200 series Landcruiser and before they get it registered they get someone like ARB to do all the alterations necessary to upgrade the GVM.

In your case, with the extensive list of accessories you have, I wouldn't be at all surprised if your rig is already over weight when you are ready to head off on a trip.

This is my biggest beef with ALL of the popular manufacturers of 4x4s. Most of them have a "Payload" (ie: the difference between the Tare weight and the GVM) of around 600kg.

So, you buy your 4x4, add a steel bullbar, rear bar, add an extra spare tyre, fridge, winch, long range fuel tank (with fuel), maybe a water tank and camping gear and load the family up (let's say 2 adults and 2 kids) and you'd be hard-pressed to stay under the GVM.

The Tare weight is for a bare vehicle with no fuel, no accessories and no occupants. A family of 4 would be around 200kg, 80 litres of fuel around 60kg, bullbar say 50kg etc etc.

Now, you go and hook up a 2 tonne van with about 10% on the towbar (200kg) and there's not much room for adding a full fridge, water tank, winch etc etc.

Cheers,

Roachie
AnswerID: 596913

Reply By: Jackolux - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:02

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:02
Mate you really are pushing it up hill with a pointy stick , with a Hilux if you want to remain legal .
I had a Hilux D4D , it was well over GVM with all the gear pretty much the same as you , plus all the usual camping gear .
I bet your Lux as it sits ready to go without the trailer is just like mine , well over GVM , you are already illegal , so you can't tow anything
Suggest you run the Lux over a weigh bridge , to check the actual weight , remember the ball weight is part of the vehicle weight .
As others have said a GVM upgrade will not add to the manufactures Gross Combined Weight
( GCM )
If you add the Max vehicle GVM to the Max towing Weight , that will be over Toyotas GCW .
AnswerID: 596914

Reply By: Member - Wildmax - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:08

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:08
Hi Gazdog,
The above post is correct; the GVM upgrade for your Lux does not change the towing capability and also you must stay under the GCM specified for vehicle and van.
It IS possible to get your GVM upgraded after you have registered and done your modifications - I did that in Tas a few years ago, with an upgrade to 3100kg, after having the vehicle for some time.
However you need to get a formal engineering certificate to provide for your transport dept (at least you do in this State). And the engineering certification process is very thorough and not cheap - from memory the process cost me around $700.
Also note that - at least as explained to me by the engineer - a "post-registration" GVM upgrade will only be valid for sale of the vehicle in your own state (though it's fine to drive it in any state). If you do all the paperwork before first registration it is valid nationally.
All the best working your way through this lot.
Wildmax
2018 Hilux pulling AOR Eclipse
Black Wolf 210 tent

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 596915

Follow Up By: TomH - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:17

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:17
Even if he does that it still wont help his problem which is.
He has bought a van with an ATM higher than his tugs legal capacity.
There is no way to alter that capacity.
He has not done a GVM upgrade anyway Just chucked heavier suspension under it. Counts for nothing really.
He can tow the van provided at any time it doesnt not weigh more than 2250kg so he will have to load it below its capacity.
With all his extra weight in the Lux as has been said he may not legally be able to tow anything.
We had to leave a roof rack and some other stuff behind to remain legal.
0
FollowupID: 865897

Reply By: GarryR - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:41

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 16:41
I have gone thru this scenario with my lux with an upgraded suspension. Firstly to get it legal with vicroads ( Vic) you need to get an engineers report then submit it to Vicroads for an upgraded sticker to place on the door frame. As I've already installed my suspension upgrade, I now found out that the only suspension recognised for the upgrade is Lovell"s suspension kit. There is a company west of Melbourne that will do the upgrade,report and relevant stickers all in one hit. The company that did my upgrade will not supply the relevant information for upgrade verification for Vicroads as they will sell and supply and fit only. It is called litigation should something go wrong with the vechile. ( this is a leading, well known company ). I was told to unload the vechile as much as possible before presenting it to the engineer for brake testing. The engineers report will cost about $750- approx., then the time off the road and no guarantees that it will get thru the report matter. That will mean more cost to modify prior re-testing. It makes a mockery of suspension kit upgrades, as (only in my opinion) could be a matter of trade practices, and conflict of interest. I could be stood wrong, but if one manufacturers kit is of the same specs as the others, why is it is problematic in getting an upgrade and engineers cert for the same vechile
location - Warragul -Victoria
life is too short, so out and about enjoy

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 596916

Follow Up By: TomH - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 18:04

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 18:04
The point of the thread is not whether it can be done or not.

It is the OP has bought a van too heavy for the tug and thinks that his "beefed up" suspension should handle it.
Maybe it will but not legally and even if he does a certified GVM upgrade IT WONT FIX THE PROBLEM.

The tow capacity of the vehicle cannot be uprated no matter what he does.

It has been done in the past apparently but the loophole has been closed for some time.

In some cases a GVM upgrade has actually reduced the tow capacity by way of the original would exceed the GCM of the rig
0
FollowupID: 865908

Reply By: Jackolux - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 19:08

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 19:08
gazdog , run the Lux over a weigh bridge with all the gear you carry in it , including people , fuel ect
you really need to know how heavy it's is .
Then see what you you can transfer to the trailer and what you can leave at home , you never know you might be able to spread the load enough to stay legal .

Or you could always do what a great many others do , load her up and hit the road .

AnswerID: 596921

Follow Up By: TomH - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 19:52

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 19:52
He cant do that as the van is already too heavy.

Its not a good idea to suggest illegalities on a public forum.
0
FollowupID: 865912

Follow Up By: wholehog - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 21:08

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 21:08
TomH....."the van is to heavy"...for what mate..?

This is the van weight.."we have just upgraded to an off road pop top van which has a Tare weight:1900 kg and Gvm weight: 2300kg" He can put 400kg into the van...which is not a lot if it has a water tank or 2...but I guess its a meranti cheapie.

How do you you know it is too heavy? If he keeps all the 4wd toys off and luggage out of the Hilux, and the van is under 2550kg loaded, he may be legal.
0
FollowupID: 865922

Follow Up By: TomH - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 22:12

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 22:12
With the ATM it has which is too heavy for the vehicle how is he going to shift stuff from the truck to the van as suggested above " see what you you can transfer to the trailer". If going for an extended trip its pretty hard to stay to allowable weights.
Another thing Maybe the plate gives the Tare but is it correct, very very few are especially with a second hand van that may have been altered after being plated.
I know of one van that the tare turned out to be not far under ATM for some strange reason.
Probably due to owners requests for alterations.

How do you make out that if the van is under 2550 it will be legal. He says his tugs limit is 2250kg so according to you 300 kg overweight is OK
0
FollowupID: 865925

Reply By: 671 - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 22:15

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 22:15
The others have covered the weight issue very well but there is one more thing that you may have overlooked and that is the tow ball weight.

My earlier model Lux has a maximum ball weight of 180 kg but the handbook says a WDH must be used for any weight above 90 kg. Yours will most likely have a higher maximum ball weight but check in your handbook to see if there is any requirement for a WDH over a certain weight like mine has.

When you combine a high ball weight with a heavy Kaymar rear bumper and spare wheel hanging off the back, your chassis could easily be in danger of bending particularly when you take it off off road.

If the book does say a WDH is necessary you may run into another problem and that is they can not be used in some off road conditions.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking heavier rear springs do the same job as a WDH. They don't. A WDH levers the rear end of the chassis up and takes weight off the rear axle. The weight is then redistributed between the front wheels of the car and the wheels of the van.

Springs just lift the chassis up a little. The weight is still sitting on the axle and is still flexing the unsupported end of the chassis up and down.
AnswerID: 596933

Reply By: Jackolux - Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 22:26

Thursday, Mar 03, 2016 at 22:26
The way I read it was the Van is 1900kg and can be loaded to 2400kg , but it's doesn't have to be loaded to max ,
Chuck some junk out of the ute , into the van , chuck some in to the shed and leave it home , if he was going to stay at caravan parks , no need to carry water , only one bottle of gas not 2 ,

I had a 140lt tank in my Lux , 99% of the time , 70 would of been plenty .

AnswerID: 596935

Reply By: gazdog - Thursday, Mar 10, 2016 at 14:06

Thursday, Mar 10, 2016 at 14:06
Thanks everyone for the replies, will get them both weighed and see how it totals up when all loaded.
I am suer every second rig out there is in the same boat as far as I have seen driving around.
Cheers.
AnswerID: 597217

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)