methylated spirits in fuel tank

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:30
ThreadID: 131846 Views:8885 Replies:12 FollowUps:18
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Gday
i remember back in the old days, we would put "metho" in the fuel tank to get rid of moisture. I have forgotten how much we put in to the the amount of fuel. Any one know the ratio? Thanks
Muzbry
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:51

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:51
On the basis that water in fuel tanks is an ongoing issue, a good water trap in the fuel line would seem to be a better long term solution?

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:57

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:57
Gday Pete
My sentiments exactly . But i was just asking . I have no issue with my fuel system. It is just one of those " ask a question Wednesday's"
Wife is at home and i am keeping out of the way
Muzbry
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Friday, Mar 18, 2016 at 09:02

Friday, Mar 18, 2016 at 09:02
True, but a water trap is not going to remove water from the tank - don't you also want to get the water out of the fuel tank so the tank doesn't rust?
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Follow Up By: Life Member-Doug T NSW - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 12:47

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 12:47
That's a good idea, Aircraft have a tester and the Pilot always checks in the pre flight
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Reply By: TomH - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 11:08

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 11:08
We used to put it in the tanks of our Hamilton jetboat as quite often a bit of water slopped in when filling from jerrys. about 2 litres or so in 24 gallon tanks
Was 1960's so is a bit hard to remember. Wouldnt put it in a modern injected car though.
Ours was an old pushrod Chev V8 with a 4 barrel Holley on it
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 13:05

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 13:05
Muzbry I think all the metho did was dilute the water into a combustible solution such that it would pass through a petrol engine without the engine conking out

Metho or ethanol is "hygroscopic" it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere, it causes transportation problems for the massive US biofuel industry. I don't know what the colouring personal consumption additives they add to metho will do over pure ethanol.

E10 is 10% ethanol and some say you can go to 15% (like Brazil just has) if that helps
No I don't know the ratio though to get rid of water in a tank
Depends on your engine, but if it was anything bigger than a lawn mower I'd be draining the tank!

Mark
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Follow Up By: TomH - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 15:58

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 15:58
We couldnt drain the tanks easily as they were virtually built into the stern of the boat.

We just chucked a few glugs of meths in each tank and it absorbed the water and apart from a few coughs it still ran OK.

The tanks eventually got drained well and truly when a new guy cranked too long and the carby which had float problems flooded the valley and it backfired and blew the stern off it Tanks included. Didnt do the guy a lot of good or all the tourists packs that were in the boat in 25ft of water. I had told him If it didnt start first time dry it out first . LOL

Was hard to get parts a days walk from nearest road.
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Reply By: Zippo - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 16:09

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 16:09
On carby models we used to wait until the tank was down to about quarter full, then chuck in one bottle of the stuff. It does alter the octane rating and burn temp a bit but nothing that would worry any engine.

If you look up the properties of ethanol (apart from the obvious effects on people) it will be described as "miscible with water in all proportions". You can try this in a glass container if you like. Partially fill with petrol, add a teaspoon or so of water and see how the two remain separate. Add a decent shot of meths and shake. When it has settled, the water will have mixed with the ethanol, and the ethanol/water mix will be dispersed throughout the fuel - not as globules. This passes through the fuel system without drama.

Never tried it on an injected one, but the ECU should accommodate the changed characteristics.

Hoses were not a problem for us as it was a once-in-a-blue-moon treatment, unlike running E10.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 19:16

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 19:16
Gday
Sorry to muck you all around fellas, i did mean a diesel tank ...
Muzbry
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Follow Up By: TomH - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 19:54

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 19:54
Now you tell us.



In that case I have no idea.
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 20:19

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 20:19
Gday
Sorry Tom Funny how one word can change the whole conversation. But realy, i thought that some of you fellas on the forum were mind readers and would have known what the hec i was talking about . hahaha
Muzbry
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Terry 80FTE - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 21:02

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 21:02
Hi Muz,
Better keep the metho for the orange juice mate, Haha.
As said in a carbied petrol it works to a degree, no good for injectors.
Wouldn't use it in a diesel as a run through scenario.
The pump and injectors would suffer too much.
The fuel filter also wouldn't separate the water out properly, the water wouldn't be in globules as the mixture ran over the element.
Emergency situation, throw a litre of metho in the tank and let stand for a while, then drain off, will help but only if you have a drain bung in bottom of tank.
otherwise drain and refill with good stuff,

Cheers
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 16:01

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 16:01
Terry my friend
My daughter told me it was Vodka that was injected into oranges , for scout camps and other things that the parents arnt to know about.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 21:41

Wednesday, Mar 16, 2016 at 21:41
Gday
Thanks fellas. I keep the litre of metho for mozzie bites and to take up space in the shed.
Muzbry
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael P (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 14:53

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 14:53
Muzbry Hi,
On a cold night, 1 part meths 3 parts warmed port. The aroma as You bring it to Your lips does wonders for stuffy sinuses as well.
Mike.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 15:21

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 15:21
My old camp cook(RIP) preferred lemon cordial as his mixer, Michael.

Sometimes we were lucky to have enough metho left to light the Tilly lamp. :-)

Bob

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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 15:57

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 15:57
Gday Bob Y and Michael
I was led to believe that it was " lemon essence " that was mixed with metho .
Muzbry
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 16:23

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 16:23
Muz,

If you've got lemon essence, you don't need metho..........HIC!

Oh, unless you're into those "double shots" I've heard about. :-)

Bob

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Follow Up By: ian.g - Saturday, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:32

Saturday, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:32
Our locals preferred to mix metho with Orange Cordial or tan boot polish, had one old bloke that used to get a kick out of Detol, eventually killed him, was run over trying to get a lift into town to get some good stuff as he used to say.
Regards
Ian
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Mar 19, 2016 at 16:35

Saturday, Mar 19, 2016 at 16:35
That's hard liquor alright, Ian.

I always get a laugh out of the bloke that used to drink brake fluid(some of the old fellars round Wyndham used to get into it) He reckoned he could stop anytime!!! :-)

Bob

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Follow Up By: Stu & "Bob" - Sunday, Jul 10, 2016 at 19:48

Sunday, Jul 10, 2016 at 19:48
You could always make "champagne" using a spoonful of Salvital.
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Reply By: Erad - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 18:17

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 18:17
YEars ago (too long to remember when), I had a Citroen Ds21 Injection model. I was towing a 17.5 ft 4 wheel caravan and filled up at Narooma. I got a bad dose of water in the fuel and the engine was running on 2 cylinders instead of 4. The slightest little bump of a hill and it was back to second gear and a steeper hill was in first. I had to get up Brown Mountain... I was rather worried.

I limped into Cobargo and went to the hardware store. I bought 2 bottles of Metho and poured them into the tank. By the time I got to the end of town (only about 1 km), it was running on 4 cylinders and it ran better than it ever did before. I had about 60 L of petrol and I put in probably a Litre of meths. It seemed to be picked up immediately and cleared the blockage really well.
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Reply By: Member - Warren H - Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 20:41

Thursday, Mar 17, 2016 at 20:41
An extract from a US Natl Renewable Energy Lab report on the use of diesel ethanol blends (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/barriers_ediesel.pdf)

'A 500-hour durability test using PEC 15% e-diesel
was recently completed by the University of Illinois (Hansen, et al., 2000) using a Cummins
B5.9 engine. Because the expense of running a controlled study was too great (i.e. running two
500-hour durability tests in parallel) the study relied on examination of engine components for
abnormal wear and analysis of the lubricant for abnormal levels of wear metals. The study found
that e-diesel promotes abnormal wear and corrosion on certain parts of the Bosch fuel pump and
fuel injectors. There was also a materials incompatibility problem with an electronic sensor on
the fuel pump. The excessive fuel pump wear was thought to be caused by excessive backlash in
the timing device because of high fueling rates, and thus may have been caused by the lower
energy content of the e-diesel. On the positive side there was no increase in metal contaminants
in the lubricant and use of e-diesel appeared to reduce the amount of injector nozzle coking
relative to petroleum diesel.'
NT Pajero
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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Mar 18, 2016 at 10:30

Friday, Mar 18, 2016 at 10:30
Aircraft have a fuel drain underneath the tank, usually in the wing, that you could drain water from before flight.

Not sure why this can’t be done on vehicle fuel tanks as most tanks will have condensation overnight and the likelihood of the presence of a certain amount of water.

Mind you, I can’t see people doing a “pre-flight check” on their vehicle, especially as it would require them to get underneath the vehicle – perhaps it could be something added for those who are concerned?

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Friday, Mar 18, 2016 at 14:10

Friday, Mar 18, 2016 at 14:10
Gday Baz
I would hazard a guess that most dont even know how to , or ever check the engine oil.
Muzbry
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 13:51

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 13:51
Baz, the manufacturers eliminated drain plugs from both fuel tanks and the bottom of many diffs - not only as a cost-saving measure - but because both were prone to severe flying stone damage and impact with fixed rocks - and both had a nasty habit of falling out!

I don't think rocks and flying debris impact, is so much of a problem in 'planes!
Personally, I hate these modern (nearly all plastic or ABS resin) tanks today, because of their lack of draining ability.

If you saw what ended up in fuel tanks, you'd be appalled.

I've cleaned out plenty of machine fuel tanks - and rust and scale, oodles of dirt, cotton fluff (from rags), and even bits of wire - plus nuts, bolts and washers, were commonly-found items!

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 15:00

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 15:00
Ya know guys, the more I read about the modern 4WD the less I want to pension off my old 1991 ute.
Maybe I'll keep it until one of dies (;=))

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 18:26

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 18:26
Your old Tilley has character, Pop. I wouldn't sell it to buy a modern whiz-bang that goes well and is, we hope, economical, but there's always that little black cloud of electronic wizardry, hovering above your left shoulder, that might, just maybe, stuff your trip right up.

And you've got the factory turbo........it's a collectors item as such, and doubt you'd receive, in a sale, what it's really worth.

Last year, I bought a VDJ79, depleting the funds by over 70 big ones, and while I like it, there's the odd thing not to love about it. Sold my old HDJ79, only because it couldn't legally carry my slide-on. Sad day when it went out the gate. :-(

Yeah, keep it Pop, and think of the money you've saved!

Bob

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Reply By: trains - Wednesday, Aug 03, 2016 at 22:50

Wednesday, Aug 03, 2016 at 22:50
With Petrol, yes you can add some metho to move the water thru and burn it in the combustion process.

DO NOT DO THIS WITH DIESEL as the metho will react with the diesel and form 2 seperate types of liquid out of the diesel and it will seperate out in the tank.
This is not good

As mentioned, drain the tank a bit from the tank drain and check for water, and then check your water traps in the diesel filter assy.

If you must, or want to add something, use 2 table spoons of Acetone to 70lt tank , this will enable the water/ moisture in the fuel to be absorbed by the fuel, for want of a better word, and be burnt in the combustion process.
less is more in this case.

Please dont use metho in diesel.
For an experiment, just add some to a glass of diesel and watch what happens.

hope this helps

cheers

Trains

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