Towing weights - where am I going wrong?

Always tricky, I can tell you that the Prado kerb weight includes 150 L of fuel (on a diesel) so I assume the Land Cruiser kerb weight will also include a full tank

For a start Toyota Kerb mass includes full fuel tanks.

Tare is with 10L of fuel Toyota dont state a GCM for the 200 series so its GVM plus towing capacity

GCM is actually GVM plus GTM of the van.

I don't doubt your figures Skull, however I think you are comparing apples with pears.

200 Cruisers and Prados are both capable vehicles in their own right but they are passenger oriented whereas a vehicle such as the Ford Ranger or others of it's ilk are more aimed at being a work type vehicle. A 200 has a 4.5 lt twin turbo rated at something like 290 kw and bags of torque so quite capable of dragging 3,500 kg around but it's still a station wagon.
Any of the duel cab utes have engines ranging from around 2.5 lt to 3.2 lt and although their kw rating is up there they rely on heaps of turbo boost and injecting more fuel per cylinder to achieve their power. They also have commercial type rear suspension to cope with the extra weight carrying ability and are not all that concerned with giving everyone an armchair ride.

Cheers
Pop

I can only comment on my mates experience,he has a Prado as well as an Izuzu 4x4 ,as for towing his old 15 ft Viscount,the Prado is more stable on the road, pulling power not much differance, he reckons the distance from the axle to the tow bar makes all the differance, the Izuzu is an extra cab with a maximum legal tray,with extended draw bar.

Skull, 200 owners have been complaining since it came out about the low carrying capacity. Lovells and other companies love them as they can sell their after market GVM upgrades to 3800kg.

4 adults, a full load of fuel and you have about 150kg left for your ball weight and that's with a stock 200 never mind any bull bar or rear wheel carriers etc.

The latest model of 200 (Sept) 2015 I believe now even states the allowable GCM at 6850kg.

John.

As a 200 owner this subject is one that I was very well aware of before I purchased ours ...we were changing from a '79 series tray back that we ignorantly made too heavy as we blissfully added things....one day we weighed it !

So my story is that the day we purchased it and started adding accessories I meticulously weighed each added fixed item and did a spreadsheet watching it grow.I can tell you if your towing a 3,500 'van as we do there is little margin for error and not a lot of payload when the ball weight may reach 10% of the 'van

Some facts....first hand. July 2014 delivery

Sales handout glossy brochure states kerb weight at 2630: the internet stated 2730: Actual on day of delivery with full tank was 2764
Since then with the following mods * Kerb weight is now 2940
* Toyo open country tires
* optima start battery
* ARB full bar work
* ARB GVM upgrade (inc poly air)
* Warn 10-S winch
* ARB compressor

I wont detail the whole list but I even weighed the MSA seat covers for example...I also allowed for the two rear seats removal (37kg) and so on...All this to be aware of the kerb weight and try and stay legal towing........you can read between the lines to see how difficult it is to do so. Dont forget the driver and passenger etc......

Just found this PDF, with lots of info, and specs for just about every car on the market.
May be helpful for some.
Steve

Towing Guide

Skull
I love this subject, if it is ever quiet, throw in a weight bomb it is said ha ha.
Read every response in detail, and i reckon the only picture painted will look like many people trying to make sense out of a nonsensical situation. State, federal, manufacturer, and 22,000,000 interpretations. get it right in one state, and someone will state that "you cant do that in the West" or something similar.
When will the feds bring in laws that make the manufacturers clearly define what each vehicle can tow with a graph of vehicle loaded weight v's towing capacity. Might see the Ford girl not being so bubbly?? Cute, but not entirely clear in her passion?

My new Mazda can tow 3500kg's according to the ads, but a reality check shows differently ha ha. Me - I just stick to GCM and dont exceed it. Forget GVM, ball weight etc, when towing.
I think we need to ask the pollies to sort this issue
Jim

All of this just highlights the reason why there is a good trade in Upping the GVM of the 200 series. Anyone who tows a reasonable sized van and has even the bare minimum of extra gear will find themselves over the rated GVM. This would be true of most vehicles that are towing anywhere near their GCM

This is all great stuff, all I have to do now is remember it. When I am pulled over by any transport inspector he is going to cop verbal diarrhea of acronyms and their explanations.I expect he will beg me to stop, which I won't, and I expect him to just drive away and look for an easier target.

Early model px1 ranger.

Tare 2200 kg
GVM 3200 kg (gross vehicle mass)
GCM 5950 kg (gross combination mass)
I tow 2.5t with mine and have no trouble keeping under the gcm.
Ranger weighs 3t loaded with everything and van goes 2.5t. Ball weight is 180kg, so ranger has 3180kg on her back with the ball weight. You don't need 10% ball weight, it is only a figure someone arrived at somewhere in the world and I do it without a weight distribution hitch. Load placement is the critical thing to keep the van under control.

The later 3.5t rated rangers have a 6 tonne GCM. Same chassis and same everything.

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts. I have done some corrections to allow for fuel load.

Here are my comments on the suitability of each of the four vehicles to tow a 2,500 kg van with my normal payload in the vehicle.

Ford Ranger would do the job with at least 350 to 420 kg spare to pack in the back. But beware - add a bigger van and you will soon go over the GCM.

Jeep Grand Cherokee would also do the job well over 100 kg of spare payload. It would also carry a bigger van - up to 3,500 kg if desired.

The Prado 150 would do the job but you would be pushing the limits. Any extra gear would need to go in the car, not the van.

The Landcruiser 200 scrapes in but only just. You will need to carry anything extra in the van as the vehicle payload is maxed out. You can go to a bigger van up to 3,500 kg but not if that means additional tow ball weight.

Alternately, you can just drive on through the weigh station throwing gear out of the car as you go:)

Am surprised about the 200 as we towed a van of 2965kg with a 100ser and werent overweight.

Was fairly tight and we didnt have an awful lot in the tug Took all seats out except the front two and had a Waeco, a genny, some tools in the drawers and some light stuff in the back. Ran it over a weighbridge and had a bit over so left the roofrack and a couple of other things behind and all was good.

Was only two of us though, any more would have been a problem.

Skull,

as I read all the replies it reminds me of the headache I have just been through with my 79 series ute. I tow an a van that is allowed about 320kg above tare. Once you get some water and wine that might keep you sustained for a few days in the bush, there is not much room for much else.
I ended up with a partial gvm upgrade on the ute and brought a set of scales. Drove the Wifey insane. Weighed every little thing in the van including the Tupperware, pots, pans dish washing liquid, playing cards, clothes etc etc.
Got the van down to legal weight then started on the tug. It is certainly a challenge. Even within the lucrative gvm upgrade industry there is so much differing info with each claiming the best product.
In the end I have weighed everything and visited the weigh bridge on numerous occasions and I am confident that I am a legal on road unit ( in my opinion anyway).
I think there are plenty out there that don't even consider the whole thing. Ignorance is bliss. I also believe that the transport authority's don't touch the caravan industry either because I think it would spell the end of caravanning for just about anything that is over about 2.8 tonne.
These days lots of people want to be independent of the ever increasing prices of the caravan parks, and are more and more free camping. With this comes the increased weight with bigger tanks for water, then an extra tank to contain the grey water, showers toilets, washing machines etc . Etc. You get the idea.
So good luck with.......... what was your question?

ha ha ha ha its always hard to get a straight answer to your question on a forum but it certainly generates discussion and proves that there are plenty of opinions ( opinions are like arse holes everyone has got one) hopefully with continued discussion on this subject there may be some national unity and black and white guidelines (long term dream)

Cheers Old Yunderup Fox

My two bob's worth.

Vehicle Weights Explained

Tow Vehicle (200 series Landcruiser Sahara 2010)

Kerb Mass (with full fuel)
2720
Tare Mass (10L Fuel) – the unladen mass of the vehicle
2610

Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) – the total mass of the vehicle including its load
3300

Gross Combination Mass (GCM) – the total mass of a loaded vehicle and its loaded trailer
6800

Trailer/Caravan (Royal Flair Promenade)
Kerb Mass / Tare Mass – the unladen mass of the trailer
2385
Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) – the mass supported by the axle/s or wheels of a loaded trailer
2515

Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) – the total legal loaded mass of a trailer including the tow ball
download
2785
Tow Ball Mass / Download – the mass transferred by a trailer onto the rear of a tow vehicle
Therefore fully laden vehicle plus fully laden caravan = 6800 GCM – (3300 GVM + 2785 ATM) = 715kgs under max allowable

People do persist in towing the biggest van they can with a pasenger car.... a pasenger car that realy is not even designed to run at its best with all seats occupied by adults.

If you have the money for a 200 series ...... have a look at the Iveco turbo daily.

Similar in price and you get a whole pile of things factory standard, that you have to pay for in almost any 4wd... like diff locks, air suspended seats, fabulous ground clearance, huge wheels and on and on.

AND you get a decent payload and towing capacity at the same time.

AND it is a heavy commercial vehicle specifically designed to run fully loaded all day every day.

Isuzu and Hino also have similar offerings

On the matter of towing capacity confusion/ lies ..... a few years ago a bloke on Ausfish posted a spread sheet of the available utes and all their particulars ... AND the relatity detived from those figures ....... it was an eye opener.

Many of the vehicles with massive published towing capacities need to be loaded with no more than a bloke and his lunchbox to achieve the published towing capacities.

Its a confusion that certain manufacturers take advantage of.

cheers