Put that iPad down

Submitted: Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 16:44
ThreadID: 132076 Views:2672 Replies:8 FollowUps:12
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One of Australia's leading outback survival experts says dependence on high-tech gadgets is putting people at risk in remote areas, and has called for a back to basics approach to bushcraft.

In 2015, police had to conduct around 230 searches for people in WA alone, with about a third of those in regional areas.

At least three of the people reported missing were found dead.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-09/back-to-basics-bush-skills-needed-says-expert/7312064
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Reply By: TomH - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 17:12

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 17:12
The Commissioner should also have suggested that a Satellite phone be a good idea as well as an EPIRB With the costs published I dont think they would be too happy hiring a plane to find you when all that is the matter is you have a puncture that you are too incompetent to change .
Eveything has its place and there has been endless discussion on here about the usefulness of both.

Epirbs are for emergencies where life is at risk A satfone is for contacting someone for lesser problems.

Yes I know the second can turn into the first but not if you have the correct gear
AnswerID: 598408

Reply By: Member - Terry W4 - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:17

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:17
I am very fortunate. I was taught by the cadets and my older brother how to navigate in remote areas on foot using paper maps and a prismatic compass. When I learned to fly light aircraft in the 1970s I learned how to apply these same principles to dead reckoning navigation over vast areas - and produced an aviation safety video (for the then CAA) specifically focused on remote area navigation - used Birdsville as the example. Message do not rely on electronic means and always be aware of where you are - situational awareness.

Now I navigate on the road in a 4x4 I use the same principles. I carry a EPIRB (top of the line) and Ipad and Navman GPS - but I also carry a compass and paper maps. And plenty of water.

But most important is to use what we used to call a SARTIME - tell people of where you are going and when you will report in "Ops Normal".

AnswerID: 598412

Reply By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:33

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:33
I dont understand why the SAR dont charge for the rescue services they provide. That ought to wake up a few. I Always carry Satphone GPS, Maps and compass and know who to use them
AnswerID: 598413

Follow Up By: Hilux fan - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:41

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:41
If you were charged for SAR, people would be very reluctant to report a missing person. Then it wouldn't be SAR needed, but "we'll go and pick up the body".
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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 19:58

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 19:58
Interesting though recovery of vehicle costs well up around 15000 bucks.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:06

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:06
We have the community looking after our lost and our weak. I wouldn't want to see that change.

If actual costs were charged we'd have more folk in a worse state or dead.
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Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 18:49

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 18:49
It wouldn't take too many before the rest woke up and thought a lot more before they ventured out.
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Reply By: vk1dx - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:52

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 18:52
Can't agree more. There are some real tools who go there. . .

We were on a club outing and a newbie got a flat. He looked as if he was waiting for us to fix it. Nope! He was encouraged to do it himself and he did. Yes we did assist with lifting and moving things but not the actual tyre repair. He found the hole and plugged it himself. And without taking it off the car. All good and smiles all around.

We recently were following some tracks on our solo Madison Line crossing of the Simpson. Bugger me if they don't turn around and go back. So out with the compass and head NNE to the next camp. Came upon the "used" track about 100 meters from the camp. Not hard to do if you know how.

Phil
AnswerID: 598416

Reply By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 19:01

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 19:01
That particular expert also sells training courses and has a track record of generating publicity for his bushiness every year or so by bringing the media along for a ride.

AnswerID: 598417

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 21:37

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 21:37
And the problem with that is?...

...it is no different than any other business person raising awareness in there area of expertise or product.

I think I would want the person that is selling training courses to be an expert.

Bob Cooper is recognised as an expert in his field and has been for quite a number of years. There aren't too many civillians who have successfully completed the SASR Selction Course.

Because of his expertise, his opinions are often sought - particularly when there is an event that relates to his area of expertise. Yes he was interviewed when the "Ant man" went missing. Perhaps the recent "lost pilot" has bought about this recent resurrection.

Just because there is a commercial interest doesn't diminish his expertise.

Cheers

Anthony
VKS 3539
Work - a 40 hour interuption to my weekend!
Too many places - too little time

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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 20:29

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 20:29
Hi Hilux fan

If you have ever noticed any of my recent posts, I have been pushing what experts have said for a very long time here on EO.

Like above, I also push to have a satellite phone as well as a PLB, as these days they do not an arm and a leg and you will find those those that are experienced here on EO Cary these basic items as standard items in the car.

Another very handy item that no one seems to mention and I also recommend in carrying is a signal mirror, as the flash from these can be seen a very long way and will attract the attention of an aircaft from tens of kilometres away, well before a person can be spotted, if at all.



Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:35

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:35
Hi Stephen maybe should be some legislation on going off the bitumen that vehicles must carry the 3 items.Also some simple things like jump starters or dual battery setup.I am on overkill 3 batteries.The miiror is a good simple thing.I remember when out remote WA the Aboriginals would burn a tyre to attrack attention.Just wondering what satphone you use.I am going to buy one as going to remote NP.in WA. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:08

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:08
Hi Lazylux

From my own personal experiences when travelling solo and with a small group, people that are prepared are not usually the ones that run into trouble.

The experienced outback traveller is aware of what lies out in the unknown and are prepared for most situations, and even with car batteries, having a dual battery system, I still carry a small jump start battery pack....just in case.

I use the InmarSat Pro satellite phone and I have been able to make phone calls from all the remote locations that we travel. The phone is on a pre paid basis, but always make sure I have lots of credit in the situation requires extended phone calls in emergencies. If I happen to run out of credit, then calls to 000 are free from my sat phone.

I still say the cheapest piece of emergency equipment to carry is the PLB, and they should be mandatory in any vehicle that heads bush.



Cheers



Stephen
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Reply By: Sigmund - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 21:08

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 21:08
GPS is among the most reliable high tech out there.

What's he on about? Two out of the three categories of major causes aren't to do with tech according to that piece.
AnswerID: 598423

Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 21:26

Saturday, Apr 09, 2016 at 21:26
Read Boobook's post..:)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Hilux fan - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:16

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:16
GPS might be a reliable technology, but GPS devices are just as prone to failure as any other device. Lack of batteries, being dropped in water, run over, left on the roof of the car at the last stop, etc, etc. I think the expert quoted was trying to point out that people are failing to learn what to do when their devices are not available. How to find or make drinking water, how to avoid dehydration, how to fix the vehicle using anything available (watch Bush Mechanics before you go!), that sort of stuff. Pre-Google knowledge, kept in your head.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:32

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:32
Bush mechanics was a show for the tv.

Try that in real life and see what happens with a modern vehicle?

Leave your GPS on the roof?

Run it over?


People that do those type of things should never be in the bush in the first place, as they would be totally irresponsible.

As for finding water out in the bush, that is far harder than many think.

You may have heard about the so call bush still, placing green vegetation in a plastic bag and waiting to get moisture that way?

This is the most unwise thing to do, and if you are not a botanist, you can end up killing yourself, as many of out so called green bushes and trees will very toxic and kill you.

There is far more to know than just doing a Google....




Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:47

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:47
I've used a handheld GPS in bushwalking for going on 20 years now. It's only let me down once - flat batteries. So user error.

In that time I've also carried a map and compass. That's let me down several times: paper maps getting wet and my son sitting on the compass!

If you're lost outback, the chances aren't good that you're going to navigate yourself out of a pickle. With a map and compass you need at least one known feature on the horizon, preferably two. With a GPS you've got coordinates within a minute. When lost in the high country socked in by cloud, a GPS is without peer, or you turn your smartphone on.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:33

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:33
Then again......
Margaret and I drove Minis into some very remote places in the late 60s and 70s. No mobiles and no EPIRBS or sat 'phones then.
We did ensure that someone knew where we were going and when we were due and we could generally look after ourselves for most minor problems.

I certainly don't consider the Birdsville Track "remote" now, in any sense of the word, at least not in winter.

Were we as bad then as those we now criticise?

Cheers,
Peter
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AnswerID: 598440

Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:11

Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:11
Indeed.
But you can still get into trouble on the Birdsville Tk and the like, enough to mean when you're injured waiting for someone to come along you can die.

I say let's have more high tech aids, not less. A smartphone with GPS and map is a wonder we never dreamed about back when we were young. A PLB or SPOT to call in the cavalry are cheap and reliable.
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