2012 navara 2.5 D40

Submitted: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 10:50
ThreadID: 132365 Views:7585 Replies:27 FollowUps:48
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Well yesterday I had a thread on TV cables but today that's the least of my problems. The other day I noticed oil was a bit low so checked out and gave her an oil change. Today driving along and steam everywhere and thought I'd blown a hose. Temp gauge was climbing but still ok when I pulled over. A mixture of oil and water spraying out coolant header tank. I suspect an oil cooler has gone. Oil in engine still clean. Cooling system full of soup. It's only done 71k km but out of warranty on time. It's gone to Nissan so I hope they will do the right thing. Any one had oil cooler issues? Also everyone is saying to me if you haven't done clutch yet it's only a matter of time. I have heard of clutch issues but is it how you drive or the clutch being week. I would suspect driving as first gear is quite tall and clutch tends to get used a bit especially on beaches etc. cheers
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Reply By: Notso - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 12:18

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 12:18
A friend did two clutches in his but he was towing a heavy van. Haven't heard about the oil in radiator issue. Blown gaskets or cracked block/head can also do the same thing!
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 12:33

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 12:33
Yeah I know being a diesel mechanic. If it's that and not covered I will burn it down. At 71000 km
It should all still be just run in. We shall see. I am towing a fairly heavy camper trailer and she's done some hard work but motors should be a bit better than that. If it is a cooler it was probably faulty from outset. I saw a guy the other day in a pathfinder which has same engine I thing blow a hose whole towing a van and during time he realised and stopped the motor was fried. Seized solid. Everything gets built lighter and lighter these days so always near the limit. Stay tuned.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 13:07

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 13:07
Kirk, I'm sorry about that.
The issue of no audible alarm with cooling system failure is an irresponsibility of vehicle makers. They put alarms on seatbelts. They put alarms on open doors. On many non-critical things, but do they put an audible alarm on cooling system or oil pressure? NO. Do they expect the driver to check gauges or lights every 5 seconds? Even if you lose coolant the temperature gauge may not indicate a high reading anyway due to location of the sender in the coolant stream.

The only answer is to fit independent monitoring with audible alarm. Not too hard.

I took this up with Subaru after blowing the engine following a failed heater hose. The temp gauge continued to read in the normal range throughout. Was Subaru concerned, NO?

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 13:15

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 13:15
Don't think that would have helped in this situation. I think motor is still ok. Temp and oil pressure were still ok. Still had oil in engine although s lot in cooling system. I do agree tho that an audible alarm or shutdown would be good. Always had that sort of protection on all Diesel engines in machines I worked on. With that other case I mentioned tho that may have saved that guys engine. I do have a flashing light when oil pressure is low bit if it doesn't catch your eye it's all over.
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Follow Up By: D-MaxerWA - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 21:06

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 21:06
My mate had his clutch replaced, under warranty, after 980km. His front tires were shot after 12000kms. Nissan refused to come to the party on the tires. He has never been off road or towed anything yet. He was planning a lap, but is now considering a change of vehicle first.
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Follow Up By: GREG T11 - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 21:20

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 21:20
Crikey, your a " diesel mechanic " and you don't know. What hope have the rest of us got ? LOL

As far as clutch's go are the Nissan a dual mass arrangement ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 21:48

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 21:48
I don't know what, idiot? I wasn't asking questions just telling story. I sent it in because it should be warranty. They worked on it all afternoon and rang me to say they haven't got a clue yet. If I pulled it to bits I would find the problem!!!! What's yours?
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 22:43

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 22:43
I blew a seal in the oil cooler on my Merc diesel Jeep. It certainly did make a mess of the coolant and took at least 3 flushes to get even close to clean. A lot of trouble for a 50cent o-ring. At least it was 12 years old with 220k on the clock.
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Follow Up By: GREG T11 - Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 22:11

Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 22:11
Sorry mate, it was not meant to come across as a smart ass comment, just lamenting the fact that if a mechanic is asking advice on a forum what hope have the rest of us got when it comes to choosing a vehicle without a issue.

Diagnosing a problem in some cases takes longer than fixing it.

I recently listened to a mechanic I have known for a few years rant about his Hilux clutch which he believes is not suitable for purpose ( the actual words are not suitable a family forum ) . Under warranty he has gone to the dealer and been told it's normal. I asked him why he just didn't bother fixing it himself and replacing it with a after market non dual mass jobby. I then got an education in the concept never letting the big man win as perceived by someone who has the time and ability to come and go from his job at whim.

He is considering trading it at end of warranty over the clutch issue. WTF fix it once and forget about it. Must have some irish in him somewhere.

Yours however is potentially a much more serious issue so once again apologies for coming across blasé and good luck sorting it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 06:45

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 06:45
All good Greg. Thanks for that. Yes it's going to be a mass headache and I guess you got me at a bad time lol. I was half expecting forum police to hit me about my comment. Anyway I will keep posting updates to keep you all I the picture. Be ok if I was home too but I'm stranded in a caravan park which I hate full stop. Then much of my gear is still in car 40 km away. I'm not having much fun but the pub is close. Cheers.
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 16:00

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 16:00
Do you have two oil coolers in the radiator? As far as I can see the oil cooler in mine goes to the transmission.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 16:52

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 16:52
That would be transmission coolers I think. Engine oil is cooled by an element on the engine which has jacket water flowing around it. If it fails the engine oil will transfer to the cooling system as oil pressure is normally higher than coolant pressure.
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Reply By: Bigfish - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 17:08

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 17:08
Hope you get it sorted. The first thing I would do after getting it fixed is to fit an Ultragauge (about $150). Monitors many of your vehicles workings. Gives accurate and real time read outs for temperatures, fuel, volts etc. etc. Has adjustable alarms that you set and works from the vehicle obd11 connection. Simple to install and worth its weight in gold.

Good luck.
AnswerID: 599818

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 17:23

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 17:23
Thanks bigfish. Sounds like good info and a great bit of gear. Like said above I don't know why manufacturers can't put an audible alarm for criticals like oil pressure and water temp. All cost I know but what's a few bucks in the scheme of a 40 or 50 grand car? I watch dash pretty closely but it's good peace of mind when you know it will beep at you when something is wrong and before it flies to bits!
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 19:13

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 19:13
Bigfish, I have ordered an Ultra Gauge, but not yet got it. Checking the specs, it doesn't seem to cover oil pressure. I use the oil pressure alarm on the Watchdog. Cheers, John
ultra gauge engine parameters
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Reply By: Bigfish - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 18:01

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 18:01
I have one fitted to my Pajero. Also have the engine watchdog. Ultragauge is in a class of its own. It is mounted on the dash and I mainly use it set up for water temp, engine temp, volts and speed. Check it out on their website. I know many on the Pajero forum who have the unit and no complaints from anyone. Vehicle manufacturers would never put a gauge on a vehicle that will see their spare parts suffer!!!! Mongrels....
AnswerID: 599821

Reply By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 23:32

Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 23:32
If you see the entire 2.5L engine sitting on a display stand, you would be shocked at what a piddly-sized piece of metal it is. And Nissan expect it to do the job of a 4 litre engine!

This is the ongoing problem with all the manufacturers today, they are following the Euro line of thinking, that 2L engines are big enough for everyday work.
They may be in Europe - but this is Australia, and we work our gear hard and long.

Even VW have woken up, and are installing a 3.0L V6 diesel in the Amarok.
It disgusts me to hear of the number of broken engines today, when these manufacturers have been building this stuff, for over 100 yrs in some cases, and they still can't put reliability first.

The primary aim today is to keep cheapening things, so the profits stay high.
You buy little engines for towing, long distance work, and hard, high temperature work, at your own risk.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 599832

Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 06:44

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 06:44
Agree 100%.
VW dealer was trying to sell me an Amarok & singing all the virtues of the huge power output & towing capacity of such a small 2.0L engine.
My reply was yea but by 100,000 km it wont be putting out that power it will be on the scrap heap!
Told him I wasn't interested.

Cheers
Stu
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 07:58

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 07:58
There are 21 for sale with close to 200k kms on carsales asking up near $30k so not quite on the scrap heap? Time will tell on the small diesels. I've got a 2.2litre that pulls 400nm with 253k kms on it after 8 years. My mechanic likes it.
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Follow Up By: swampy - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 09:06

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 09:06
hi ,
A small capacity engine does not have the bottom end torque of a larger brother . The ford ranger is a prime example of this . Ford advertised that the larger engine had 30% more bottom end torque than its smaller brother The smaller engine is worked harder for the same result as a larger unit . This will never change .

The trend towards v6 diesels is the best idea yet VW ,Jeep ,Nissan

As advertised the new hilux Toyota IT HAS A REVERSING CAMERA, this is all they can come up with for a new model !!!!!! really ....
Oh yea an engine that's getting smaller with an out put that forces u to buy a cruiser to get some grunt .
Once again Toyota lack of magic strikes again !!!!!

swamp
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FollowupID: 869117

Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 15:45

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 15:45
I have 350,000km on my current 1999 Hilux & it does not burn oil & has the same power as the day it left the showroom.
It's been a workhorse with lots of low range hours so likely engine work is equivalent to 450,000 on road.
Like to see one of those 2 litre jobs get those sort of km's

I would be VERY annoyed that my Navara engine died at 71,000 kms & cost so much to repair.

Cheers
Stu
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Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 22:25

Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 22:25
Apparently the V6 is only in the top of the line Amarok, so there'll be a premium price on it!
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FollowupID: 869259

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 09:45

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 09:45
Well latest from Nissan this morning. Most likely head gasket or head. Head has to come off to assess. Compression in no1 down to 70 psi and water in that cylinder. Car has never been overheated. They did say it could be caused by an injector leaning off. At the end of the day could be up to 4 weeks and 7 grand. No warranty although they did say they would TRY to help me. There is just no way I can afford this and I don't even posses that much money. The car has done 72000km!!! You just don't expect an engine to expire at km when it should just be run in. I'm not happy Jan!
AnswerID: 599844

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 10:17

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 10:17
That is pi$$-weak, and totally unacceptable - both on lifespan, and the cost of the repair.
You need to start raising the Consumer Law conditions with them, as regards "acceptable quality", and "fitness for purpose". This engine meets neither.

Consumer Law - Motor Vehicles

A lot of people do not understand that the end of the manufacturers warranty period is not something concrete.
Warranty extends to satisfactory life past the official end of the manufacturers statutory period, if the performance of the vehicle falls well below an acceptable standard.

At the very least, you should expect around 250,000kms as a satisfactory engine life.
At 72,000kms, you have had only 28% of the expected satisfactory engine life, and at the very most, that % is the maximum that you should be expected to contribute to the repair - and the repair cost should not reach $7000, either.

A brand new head and top overhaul gaskets should be no more than about $1500, and about the same in labour at the the outside, making $3000 a more acceptable repair figure.

Get a quote from an independent repairer (in writing) and use that to hammer Nissan on the repair cost, if it's excessive.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 10:26

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 10:26
Cheers Ron. I will find out story later today when head is off. I did tell them if that was the cost I would be taking it further. I totally agree that 72000 is not acceptable with or without warranty. The car has never overheated so it's not due to abuse or me just faulty engine in my view. If it can't take a bit of 4wding and towing etc then that engine should not be in that car. As I said above with that pathfinder it is obvious these engines are very fragile. I won't be sitting down and taking it mate. Don't worry I will be doing a lot of jumping up and down.
AnswerID: 599848

Follow Up By: 1002 - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 18:40

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 18:40
Given the thousands of early ZD30 powered patrol owners let down by Nissan I don't think you will have much luck challenging them over costs. It would be cheaper to source another YD25 from a wreck and install it than repair.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 19:11

Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 19:11
Your probably right mate. I sent them rons article and told them to have a think before getting back to me and as yet today they haven't. I will wait till I get a final diagnosis and costs and what they say before I make a decision. Whatever happens I will get rid of it and go back to something pre electronics and fragile engined. I had a 93 patrol prior to this one and it drank fuel but I think I would still rather something I can fix on the side of the road and isn't going to break down. Yes it's good to have all the mod cons when working but I think I traded up/down to a headache. Pitty I have spent so much on gear and bars etc. I still have a knew set of old man emu rear suspension sitting in the back that I was about to fit yesterday but may return and put money towards a decent vehicle. The thing is I am from Perth and now in Mackay and stranded. All my food, clothes etc is still in back of canopy. Talk about a debarkle.
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Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 17:39

Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 17:39
Today's update. Still pulling head off. 10 hours labour. R&R head 26 hours. Have been doing some research and cracked blocks seems to be coming up. Nissan Australia says no warranty but maybe some goodwill. New engine is about 5 grand. The plot thickens.
AnswerID: 599921

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 12:09

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 12:09
Today's instalment. They are now pulling the engine out as they say it's easier than pulling head off in car. Starting to smell a bit of BS already as I was told yesterday they would have head off and let me know. So now at least Monday before I even know!!!!!
AnswerID: 599972

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 13:42

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 13:42
Kirk - Well, I guess you can consider yourself lucky that it's not a Range Rover Sport! - where you have to pull the body off the chassis to replace some engine components!

Watch this Range Rover split in half just to do engine repairs!

I hope it all comes out O.K. in the wash. At least with the engine right out, it will hopefully ensure the repairs are done correctly, and nothing is missed.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 14:36

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 14:36
Thanks Ron. I'm going to wait till they get it apart and call me hopefully Monday then I'm going to ask to see it with someone I know who is qualified to do independent assessments and see if they are doing the right thing or trying me out. Anyway I will keep posting. I think it could be a long and interesting story.

If you can afford a Range Rover you can probably afford that. If you drive a Datsun you can't.
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FollowupID: 869293

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 15:06

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 15:06
If they repair your engine, make sure that the timing chain is replaced, as a lot of these engines have self destructed because of the chains breaking.
My brother's broke the chain & even though he bought the vehicle second hand & had never been to the dealers in his life, they hounded Nissan for him until Nissan supplied a brand new long motor at no cost, all he paid for was oil. I think that the attitude of the dealer can have a big influence on "good faith" claims out of warranty. Forget fit for purchase & not suitable etc, what applies in your case is the statuatory warranty which clearly states that the period should be what would be reasonably expected, in your case you would certainly reasonably expect it last longer than 71,000kms.

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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 15:48

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 15:48
How far do I go. They say clutches in them are bad too so should I get that done while motor is out? (Yes). I will not be taking it lightly tho. For one I don't have the money and two I won't be ripped off. Yes I can see a lot of jumping up and down coming up and I am planning to do a short notice visit to inspect with an independent failure analysis guy but I will firstly wait to see what they say when and if this chunk of s..t ever gets pulled apart.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 18:24

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 18:24
I know it's hard not to vent your frustration at the dealer, but try to work with him to approach Nissan to help you.



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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 13, 2016 at 19:15

Friday, May 13, 2016 at 19:15
No. I've kept very calm but firm and stated my point. I can't do anything till its stripped and assessed. Just seems to be taking a long time. 3 days to get head off?? And the goal posts have moved to removing engine. The dealer has actually said they will help me and do their best and I'm sure they will. At the end of the day a engine of 72000 km should not have a catostophic failure full stop. I just want justice and a fair outcome.
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Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 13:55

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 13:55
Latest update it head is off and being tested at the moment but they are now talking about new radiator and heater element as they are both totally blocked up with gunk. All I can see are dolar signs flying into the bin but wait and see.
AnswerID: 600150

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 16:56

Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 16:56
Head is ok. Now after a week I still don't know what's wrong with it. The guy who tested the head is today going to test block and oil cooler. Oil cooler should have been the first thing tested. Anyway the saga continues.
AnswerID: 600201

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 12:12

Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 12:12
Today's enthralling episode. Nissan haven't got a clue what it is. Head and cooler is ok however I asked them if cooler was tested hot or cold and told them to test it hot as I have seen instances of cracks only opening when at operating temp. The next thing is cracked block. I have a mates mate who had one with a crack between the oil and water port inside the block and was only found by X-ray. Told Nissan to research on their data base and the story should come up. That wasn't covered by Nissan even tho he took them to court. That motor had 115k on it. Hmmm!
AnswerID: 600235

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 14:00

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 14:00
Today's episode and they still don't know. Testing oil cooler again on oil side this time as I thought that's the way they would have done it the first and second time!
AnswerID: 600292

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 16:37

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 16:37
Kirk, there's a vast amount more pressure on the oil side of the oil cooler, than there ever would be from the coolant side!

What kind of drongos are working on your ute?? That would be the 1st thing you'd check, as soon as the radiator and heater core were found full of crud!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 16:52

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 16:52
Mate I couldn't agree more on that one. I can't believe what's going on. It seems I'm telling them what to do. 5 minutes to pull oil cooler off motor and then if they had tested it properly could have saved someone a lot of money if it ends up being that. They are making plates to check. You would think that would almost be a special tool. They are then going to pressurise it with hydraulic oil so I'm told. I am in awe of what's going on to be honest but biting my lip and being more patient than I know how. I suggested the oil cooler from the outset and can't believe it's come to this. Hope they don't even dream of charging me for the hours spent farting around! No offer of a borrow car or anything.
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FollowupID: 869626

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 13:35

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 13:35
This is getting more farcical by the minute. Just spoke to the dealer who is still baffled and doesn't know what the cause of the failure was. Wanted my opinion on what to do. I said if I tell you to put it back together and the same thing happens I'm then to blame and it falls back on my shoulders. Not good enough. Was told that they have put a quote into Nissan Australia to see how much and if they will help at all. I said I won't be paying for it and was told man made mechanical things fail. Yes they do but thats why we have warranty and things in place to hopefully protect the innocent buyer and make sure they get a fair deal and a reasonable life out of a product. This has failed way way short of its reasonable expected life and they are talking about me footing the bill. Where do I go from here. Length of rope and a tree because it will completely bankrupt me!
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FollowupID: 869685

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 13:56

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 13:56
Go at them hard, Kirk. The whole performance of the engine, the dealer, and Nissan is totally unacceptable.

They're happy to take your $45K, or whatever amount it was to buy their product - and then they can't provide acceptable backup, when the product fails well short of reasonable life expectations.

You could have bought a Great Wally and had better engine life, with the same low level of backup - for half the outlay!!

I'd really hammer them on this - they keep pushing the image, the name, the performance, the backup, in all their advertising - and it's all basically false and misleading advertising!!

But - after over 50 years of owning hundreds of items of machinery, equipment and vehicles - I can tell you this much - the manufacturers and dealers will try to oppress you on every level, when it comes to warranty claims and unsatisfactory performance.

They will tell you that ...

1. "You're the only one having this problem" - when there are dozens of others having the same or similar problems ..

2. They will tell you it's "operator or owner fault or error", and not a workmanship/materials fault ...

3. They will offer as little as they can possibly get away with, in compensation .. and you have to fight tooth and nail, to get what you are rightfully entitled to ...

4. They will stuff you around, create delays, obfuscate, handball the problem between dealer and manufacturer - until you get desperate, and accept anything they offer ...

You have to get insistent with your demands, never leave their premises, and threaten them with every legal avenue you can think of - until you wear them down - rather than them wearing you down!

Good luck, you are going to need it!

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 869686

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 18:40

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 18:40
Nissan have asked dealer to pull EGR cooler (whatever that is) out and have it tested but it doesn't even have oil flowing through it. What on earth are they thinking.
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FollowupID: 869701

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 19:28

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 19:28
Kirk, the hot gases from the exhaust recirculation valve (EGR) are run through a tiny heat exchanger on the EGR pipe, to prevent valves and pistons getting melted with excessively-hot exhaust gases being fed into the combustion chamber.

However, these EGR heat exchangers (coolers) are prone to failure. Once they fail, hot exhaust gases find their way into the coolant - resulting in coolant loss, overheating and coolant contamination.

The link below is interesting.

Nissan D40 EGR cooler problems

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 20:48

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 20:48
What happens when you put a blank in the EGR pipe as many do. I can't see that affecting much except to keep all the intake system cleaner.
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FollowupID: 869708

Reply By: Member - Allan L2 - Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 07:33

Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 07:33
Hi Kirk, Good luck with your long drawn out engine problem. Whilst they are still trying to find how the oil has got into the cooling system there is one thing I find a bit baffling & that is in one of your earlier replies you stated that the “Compression in no1 down to 70 psi and water in that cylinder”. What was the outcome from this finding? I wish you all the best & hope Nissan come to the party with expenses.
Cheers,
AnswerID: 600377

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 12:34

Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 12:34
Hi Allan. They told me water in cylinder but that's not the case. They said compression was down 70 psi in no1 but to be honest I wouldn't believe a thing as they are totally incompetent. They didn't even test oil cooler as a first thing. Then 3rd time tested it correctly. If water was in the cylinder it would be a different thing altogether. They are saying it may be oil tracking across the head gasket but not sure. Just a guess as last resort. The oil gallery is at least an inch away from water passage and I am pretty sure it's not that. It would have gone into cylinder which is much closer.
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FollowupID: 869736

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 23, 2016 at 16:23

Monday, May 23, 2016 at 16:23
The dealer is now saying everything is ruled out except the block and it's basically too hard and inconclusive to test. He is now putting a case to Nissan Australia who will only assist and I will be hit with the rest of the bill. I suggested a new motor and I will pay for the 72000 km I have used but the engine only comes in a short block so the head and ancillary gear has to be fitted anyway. The next idea was a low km engine from the wreckers which they are looking for now. I just hope the "assistance" from Nissan is not an insult and its sooner rather than later because my bum is getting sore from cycling every where! They didn't even offer a loan car.
AnswerID: 600472

Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Monday, May 23, 2016 at 17:46

Monday, May 23, 2016 at 17:46
Following this saga with interest.
Having being in the market for a new vehicle for a while Nissan don't do themselves any favours by firstly producing a vehicle that fails in such a short time & secondly treating a valued customer this way.
Nissan vehicles are at the bottom of my list.

Certainly feel sympathetic to your plight with all the stress it's caused you & the interruption to your trip.
Cheers
Stu
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FollowupID: 869838

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 23, 2016 at 18:29

Monday, May 23, 2016 at 18:29
Spread the word! I think o can almost safely say I'm going to get screwed. It's looking like I will finish with a bill not worthy of spending on that car. I certainly won't get it back. I owe 12 on it and with a possible bill of ten grand I will be lucky if its worth that now.
AnswerID: 600476

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, May 23, 2016 at 19:33

Monday, May 23, 2016 at 19:33
Kirk, I have been following your posts and I really feel for you.

Light vehicle manufacturers conquer and divide by offering models that really are good and when they produce a vehicle that has a problem, they just hide and say nothing. This doesn't happen in the heavy vehicle market, as those who buy just don't come back and it is passed on from one operator to a another.

I don't know the answer, but legislation would be a great help seeing we don't have a local light vehicle industry to protect. Any Pollies who are reading this, do you get my drift.
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FollowupID: 869853

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 01:03

Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 01:03
I know what your saying. I worked for Cummins for a long time and yes they had problems with mining and road products but I know they had systems in place and as soon as that problem showed up a few times they were onto it and developed a fix. Then when and if that problem occurred it was fixed for the customer no questions. I don't know how many trucks drove into the workshop and out again with a new engine in a day or two if they had the oil burning issue on the signature engines for example. My problem seems to be a one off although I know of another one personally with a cracked block. So they say anyway. I don't mind a problem. Yes mechanical things do break and sometimes even have manufacturing faults. I just want it fixed. As it turns out now if s get a ten grand bill and with the 12 I still owe I'm considering leaving the car there and just walking away from it. I have spent so much time and money getting that car as I want it for my purpose. That's the hard part. Well we will still see what the final offer might be from Nissan but it's not looking good.
AnswerID: 600498

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 09:47

Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 09:47
Does anyone have a mate who works at Nissan. I would like to try to find out how many block failures like this have actually accurred. They tell me this is a one off but I know of at least one other. So I know they are. Bull....ing me.
AnswerID: 600503

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 13:25

Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 13:25
Kirk, it seems that block failures are uncommon with the YD25 engine that you have - but many other engine items seem to crap themselves regularly.

Conrod bolt failures were common in earlier YD25's, but that problem seems to have been addressed by Nissan.
Timing chain failures are a well-known problem with the YD25. The original timing chain appears to be good for 80,000kms, and that's it.
There's a heavy duty dual timing chain alternative which appears to cure the problem.

YD25 Timing chain failure

Product Review is one site I use to do research on items I buy. The reviews are posted mostly by genuine owners.
You do need a degree of discretionary judgment to weed out the glowing reviews that are posted by people who have only just bought their vehicle - or they work as salespeople, selling Navaras!

The overall review level for the D40 Navara is 3 out of 5. This is not satisfactory. I regard reviews of anything, that rates below 3.5 out of 5, as an unreliable, trouble-prone product, and I will not buy anything that falls below a 3.5 out of 5 Product Review rating.

What amuses me with some owner reviews, is how they relate a long list of problems they've had to endure - then they give the vehicle a 4 out of 5 rating!!
They must be masochists to put up with regular problems and then report the product as being satisfactory.

You buy a new vehicle to get new vehicle performance. That means virtually trouble-free motoring.
You can buy a second-hand vehicle and get trouble-prone motoring - why would you put up with constant and major problems, with a new or near-new vehicle!?

The Navaras list of problems extends to regular clutch problems, occasional gearbox, suspension, driveshaft, and rust problems - but most importantly, a constant and regular lack of customer/warranty support by the Nissan company.

Below is a site for a company that rebuilds YD25's. It's interesting to see the amount of modifications that they indulge in to make the YD25 provide a satisfactory level of performance - that the engine should provide from the factory - but which it obviously doesn't for many people.

The very fact that one business is making good money out of addressing the YD25 design failings is telling.
The "Products" menu lists and outlines the regular YD25 failures. What also shows up is inconsistency in the failures. This is a basically a result of inconsistencies in Nissan QC.

Many of the engineering improvements also show up a distinct failure in design of the YD-25 - from inadequate timing chains, to inadequate oil supply to numerous critical components, to poor oil pump design.

YD25.com.au

Here's the Google search results for the Navara YD25 engine problems. The resulting hits cover a wide range of Navara problems.

Google - Navara YD25 engine problems

My advice is, the simplest and cheapest solution to your current dilemma is acquiring a low-km engine from a wrecked vehicle and installing it.
The expensive and longer-term solution is to install the new short block.

Everything hangs on how long you want to keep the Navara and the time frame to recover your losses.
It seems obvious that you'd be happy to quit the Navara as soon as possible, so installing a good used engine, followed by prompt sale of the vehicle, is probably the option that will see you lose the least - and reduce your exposure to further Navara or YD25 costly problems.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 869877

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 13:40

Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 13:40
Thanks once again Ron. I was looking at a few videos on YouTube made by a fella at West Yorkshire engines and he shows the failures and upgrades/modifications and says don't buy one. He says the quality of the metal used in many of the components is a major contributing factor. I'm just waiting for Nissan to lay a figure on the table at the moment and most likely I will be taking that to fair trading and possibly a few others. I am going to jump up and down because I don't have, and didn't budget, the money for an engine failure in a new car. I am traveling around Australia on a shoe string budget (read X wife) and doing seasonal work when needed. I am waiting to start work on the cane harvest but that money is to live not to pay for this debarkle. It's actually been a life changing sort of thing and not just an expensive failure but Nissan couldn't care less about that and the costs of towing and accommodation etc that I won't get back. I was told I would get an answer today but I doubt it!
AnswerID: 600513

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 09:07

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 09:07
This is not getting and better. Rang fair trading and told to put in writing to Nissan Australia so rang Mackay Nissan to get correct address and girl put me through to dealer principal who I explained it all too. This morning get call from service guy who wasn't too happy as he must have had a call from the boss. He told me Nissan would only probably come up with 25%. He also said it would be cheaper for me to buy another engine and take the car to a random mechanic to get it going. Can you believe that??? I know I find it quite amazing. Great service when you buy a Nissan. NOT! So I'm now waiting for a call from Nissan Australia. I can see me walking away. It's on Nissan finance so they can sort that out. I just simply don't have the money to pay for something I shouldn't have to. Maybe I'll get a free board and lodging at the local jail.
AnswerID: 600572

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:56

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:56
Kirk - I find it particularly disturbing that the dealership cannot find the cause of the engine destruction. This is a total and abject failure on the part of the dealership - and Nissan.
Anytime I had failures with Cat engines, the Cat dealer would get a high powered Cat rep involved - and they would FIND the cause.
Many a time, Cat admitted responsibility for manufacturing defects, and came to the party.

The very least that needs to be determined is WHAT EXACTLY caused the engine failure.
Even if it was a combination of factors (and it quite often is), then the reason for failure has to be determined before the blame game and compensation game can proceed.

I have all the Cat Failure Analysis books. They comprise 8 large volumes, with coloured photos and a complete examination of every type of failure known - in engines, transmissions, gear trains, hydraulics.
They are the reference Bible for failure determination for Cat products.

If Nissan have no idea what caused an engine failure at relatively low kms, then what hope is there, for their products? They are flying blind.

I would say you might be better advised to employ an independent, highly qualified engineer, or engine rebuild specialist, to examine your engine, and produce a detailed report on the engine failure, and the reasons for it.

This report might cost you a few bucks, but it will provide you with a document that is rock solid, that can be used to beat Nissan around the head with, and which can also be used as solid evidence in the case of any Consumer Law actions.

The very fact that Nissan have now offered to cover 25% of the repair costs is significant.
It means that they have decided to accept some responsibility for the fiasco, and all that is needed now is to keep up the pressure on them until they raise the percentage to a more reasonable 75% of the repair costs.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 869938

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:29

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:29
Hi Ron. I know exactly what you are saying. I worked for Cummins for many years some of it as a DFSE who reported failures to the factory and worked on causes and cures. We had the books too. I also worked at Westrac for a while and ran engines on the dyno so had to work out many various failures. As far as Nissan are concerned they ruled everything out and the only thing left was the block so in their opinion that is the problem. Was told the block would have to be stripped and sent to Brisbane for X-ray. In this case they would add that to my bill most likely. I know they will do that after they have finished with me because as you said they would want to know the cause even tho these engines are now finished production I think. It's getting to the stage they won't return my calls which is even more disgraceful. It's wearing me down and causing some sleepless nights but I will keep pushing.
AnswerID: 600586

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:42

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:42
.

And I know exactly what both of you are saying..............

BUY A BL***DY NISSAN AT YOUR PERIL !!!!!!

There seem to be countless reports of Nissan failing to honour their warranty responsibilities.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 869941

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 13:30

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 13:30
Ron I just spoke to Nissan Australia and was told the claim submitted by the dealer was denied because there is no root cause established yet. Rest your case. What a joke. So now it's on hold while that happens and I'm back to square one without a car or any idea what's wrong with it or when I'll get it back. Not only is the product crap but the people running the show are clueless.
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FollowupID: 869942

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 13:20

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 13:20
It's about time somebody took them to task. I've always been a Nissan man and had the twitch to go with it but I have always had old patrols and never had a problem except gutless and thirsty but I couldn't break one. I will sell this chunk of sea sick ASAP if I don't leave it there and go back to a patrol or 80 series if I can find a good one. After this I would hate to break down somewhere really remote in the navara because I wouldn't have a chance of fixing it. And it's a matter of when not if! Cheers.
AnswerID: 600589

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 16:16

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 16:16
Ok I'm not happy Jan. The bill is around 9 grand and Nissan won't pay a cent. Rejected on grounds of service history as I did the servicing myself. Was told when I bought the car that it would be fine as I am a diesel mechanic. It was serviced by the book and oil changed every 5000km instead of 15. That must have been the cause of the cracked block. How can they get away with this? Nissan Australia hung up on me when I started to ask questions. What a great company to deal with. Well I guess I start legal proceedings now. Where do I go first. Fair trading. The ombudsman. Current affair?
AnswerID: 600604

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 16:39

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 16:39
My understanding is that the law says any LICENSED mechanic can service a vehicle during the warranty period and the manufacturer must accept that and it will not affect warranty. IE, you do NOT have to use Nissan dealer service to retain warranty.

So for the portion of the vehicle's life when it was in manufacturer's warranty and you were servicing it, if you are a properly licensed mechanic then as far as I understand they cannot claim a poor service history.

Obviously, after warranty, the same thing applies IF THE MECHANIC IS PROPERLY LICENSED.

The operative words are "properly licensed".

Now, I don't know what the licensing regime for automotive mechanics is. I suspect that first you must have an appropriate tech qualification and then you must apply, pay for a keep current a licence from some governing body, such as the MTAA or whatever, to be properly licensed.

I suspect that if you have the tech qualification but have not done the red tape to get a licence, that is where they will find their wriggle room.

Doesn't mean they are right, of course. It would just another example of the law and justice not necessarily cohabiting.

Ron N and some others will know more about this than me, so go for it guys.

Good luck Kirk, I feel for you.

Cheers
FrankP

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FollowupID: 869955

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 17:11

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 17:11
Ha I feel for me too. Yeah Ron has been a huge help and no doubt we will talk some more. I have a trade as diesel fitter but no license as such. Was told it would be fine when I bought the car but that's not in writing. There has to be laws to protect innocent people from being totally ripped off as I am I this case and I'm sure a heap of other Nissan owners. I just have to work through that now and figure out who is the best to deal with. Legal aide. Ombudsman. Fair trading. Consumer protection. I just feel so violated right now by nissans whole attitude and the treatment of ......... At Nissan Australia. I asked him how he would feel with a 9 grand bill on a 72000 Ln engine and he wasn't interested and hung up. Wow what lovely people we have at Nissan. Don't buy one folks.
AnswerID: 600609

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 17:40

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 17:40
.
Kirk,
I would suggest your first contact should be to Fair Trading in the State that you currently are in. They will guide you from there.

Do not be too concerned about maintenance by a "Licensed Mechanic". I think that you will find that your warranty rights are preserved if maintenance was carried out in accordance with Nissan specifications. That does not imply that it must be done by a Nissan employee per se. If you are able to demonstrate that you have the training and competence to maintain motor vehicles and make a declaration that the maintenance was performed to the specifications you may satisfy Fair Trading and others who may come to preside over this matter.
I think Nissan would have to demonstrate that the fault was caused by improper maintenance in order to escape their warranty obligations.

Some years ago I challenged Ford regarding their expression of requiring Dealer maintenance to qualify for warranty. They did respond in writing that my challenge was correct but that I "may have trouble in finding an independent service workshop that could meet Ford's maintenance requirements." I took my chances with the assurance of a well-established workshop but never needed to test the warranty.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 869961

Reply By: Ron N - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 17:38

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 17:38
Kirk, they have you over a barrel at this stage. If you are not a licenced Motor Vehicle Repairer - even though you are a qualified tradesperson - and even though the dealer told you that doing your own servicing would be O.K. - then you don't really have a leg to stand on.

With hindsight (a wonderful thing) you would have been well advised to have got the dealers initial advice about doing your own servicing, in writing.

What everything hinges on now, is being able to prove that the cause of the engine failure wasn't related to you doing the servicing.

For you to proceed down this path, you really need that independent examination of the engine components, and expert written advice as to whether your servicing regime contributed to, or caused the damage - or whether a manufacturing defect was found that was the sole cause of the damage.

Even if a manufacturing defect is found, it still remains likely that Nissan will stand by their claim that your servicing was the cause of the damage.

I think your best bet at this stage is to advise Nissan that you will appear on Today Tonight with your story - and the media will also attempt to get Nissan to comment.
If Nissan refuse to appear or comment, then that does great damage to their image.

Doing this also makes others come out of the woodwork who have also been shabbily treated.

Another good stunt is to park the vehicle outside a prominent Nissan dealership and plaster it with banners stating Nissan refuse to honour warranties, or support their loyal customers.
This will often generate action from the company when it starts to appear on news sites.

Finally, you could always start a campaign on a crowd-funding site to get enough coin together to launch a lawsuit against Nissan.

Go Fund Me

However, to do so, you would need good legal advice on whether your claim will stand up in court.
In general, the underdog gets a fair hearing and a fair deal in court, which is more than what Nissan is giving you.
Regardless, even if you win, you will be up for court costs, unless you can persuade the judge to award costs.

At this point, you have to consider how much of your life you want to sacrifice to try and recover your losses - or whether it's better to cut your losses and walk away.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 600612

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 18:04

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 18:04
Thanks Ron. They haven't even established at this stage that the block is faulty. Just a process of elimination that the block was the only thing untested so it must be that! How can a block failure possibly be attributed to servicing unless you forget to put oil in but engine condition is perfect. If they say it is the block then I guess I have to prove that but no real evidence at this point. If I get an independent person to inspect how are they going to say it is the block or whatever when you can't see the fault by eye. Yes I was thinking of doing something like the banner thing and I was thinking of current affair. How many times do you see " after this story the culprit came to the party"! I just feel so gutted that this can happen. Not to mention im stuck with out a car for at least 4 weeks. I'm thinking I might contact current affair tomorrow as I know they do a fair bit of investigative journalism with these things. Wow this is just so wrong!
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FollowupID: 869963

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 19:34

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 19:34
Kirk - Yes, I know the shafted feeling, and I feel your pain.
It just stinks that a huge global corporation has no interest in standing by loyal customers.

However, they know the legalities of their position, and you're standing out on a limb at present.
About all you can do is make them feel uncomfortable and be a burr under their saddle.

Consumer Law as regards car warranties is pretty clear on the servicing requirements under warranty.
I presume you bought the D40 in W.A. - so here's the appropriate W.A. Dept of Commerce advice (the section below "New Vehicle Warranties & Servicing").

Consumer Protection - New Car Warranties

This part, below, is the section where it all hinges on, and for this reason, I think you're standing on the quicksand section of the swamp, while Nissan know they're on firm ground.

"While consumers are still entitled to claim for a manufacturing defect, these can sometimes be difficult to prove. To prove that a fault was caused by a faulty part or installation of that part during manufacture, it may be necessary to show that the correct fluids or filters were used in servicing, or that the after sale adjustments were made at the correct time."

It is pathetic that Nissan aren't even prepared at this point to undertake close examination and X-ray of the block to find any defect.
Perhaps they already know that if they don't do this, they can continue to claim the faulty/incorrect servicing angle - whereas if they do carry out the close examination or X-ray of the block, it may prove embarrassing to them, and show up a distinct manufacturing defect.

That is why I suggested an independent block examination, it makes your position either much stronger if a defect is found - or buggers up your position, if no defect can be found.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 869965

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 20:04

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 20:04
Yes I'm thinking Ron that they are stalling on getting the block checked. They did say to me that they had never heard it before but I know from my limited resources that it had happened before. They are full of shit and lies. I'm trying to read between that. Have put a story on current affair. Not sure how I can claim the block to get it tested. I have a contact who does independent engine failure reports and I am seeing him tomorrow. I just find it so unbelievable that Me and probably hundreds of others have been shafted in this way. I really appreciate you efforts mate. I really do. It's a case of the big guy against the small guy and I have no show bug I will certainly make them hurt somehow.
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FollowupID: 869967

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 21:18

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 21:18
Kirk, you own the vehicle and the block - just go and take it off them, and tell them you are going to take it to carry out an independent test, in preparation for a lawsuit.

That should get them buzzing, particularly if the dealer tells the warranty dept in Nissan, what is happening.

You need the assistance of as many supporters as you can arrange, because these global corporations know they hold all the cards when they are dealing with an individual, and they are happy to crush you without a seconds thought, to protect their fat profits. Good luck.
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FollowupID: 869971

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 22:14

Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 22:14
Interesting write-up on new Navara below - "Nissan admits QC problems with previous model Navara, promises new model will improve".

HA! This is classic corporate BS at its best. When they are trying to sell you a product, it is faultless - but when a new model arrives, the previous model was a POS!!
You have no idea how many times I have been informed of that, by salespeople!

Car Advice - New Navara

It's also interesting to note how the Nissan head honcho plays down the Navara problems.
Part of that outlook, is no doubt refusing to recognise problems, or refusing to compensate unhappy customers - so there can only be "minor quality" problems!

The comments at the bottom of the article are interesting and enlightening as well.

I have picked up from a Pommy forum that porosity in the bores of the YD25 block is one of the YD25's problems - as well as cylinder head porosity.
Sounds like both areas are good places to start looking, with the independent inspection.
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FollowupID: 869973

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 15:02

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 15:02
Went into Nissan Mackay again this morning to pick up my boat but told service manager I had got current affair and fair trading involved and also had a sign I was going to stand out the front with. They threatened to call lawyers and also said it was deflamatory for that business and not Nissan Australia. Got a call from dealer principal soon after and we had a chat. Said it was between me and Nissan Australia and I said they just hang up on me so he was going to push for me and call back. Haven't heard yet. They will not even start work until I pay for it. Yes the 9 grand. And the engine will be sent to a reconditioner as a service exchange so I won't get block and if I want it tested it will cost me. Looks like legal action and if that doesn't work I will just leave it there and walk away.
AnswerID: 600649

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 12:42

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 12:42
Spoke to dealer principal today who spoke to Nissan Australia on my behalf and was told the reason Nissan won't help me is that I didn't contribute any money into the kitty for parts and services as I did the servicing myself. So in other words you have to pay for your own warranty. Apparently it doesn't matter if the product is clearly faulty as is the case. Rather strange but that's how it works. Well we will see if fair trading thinks this is fair trading or not and the complaint form has gone in today.
AnswerID: 600731

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 13:59

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 13:59
Bet Nissan won't give you that in writing. What I hate, is the way a problem is hand balled back and forth and you never get any written reason or explanation for their actions.

Make sure you document everything and that includes phone calls. Even to the point of recording them, so you can give a correct account when it is entered in your diary

A couple of other dealers in Mackay have lifted their game after being taken over and I suspect a broom has been put through the businesses.

At least you should be working in the next few days with the crush starting.
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FollowupID: 870074

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