Weights

Submitted: Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:09
ThreadID: 132430 Views:4029 Replies:6 FollowUps:24
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This does not surprise me..we have been traveling around nt/qld and some of the smaller Utes with a large van,boat,motor,generator,couple of fridges etc etc..
Don't know if it's the dealer not explaining GCM or the buyer hearing things like "3500 kg towing" "GVM upgrade" and thinking this is just what we need..
A big percentage of these Utes are way out of their weight class..
Regards Danny
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Reply By: Notso - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:28

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:28
The same applies to the LC200 series, with a payload of 600 or so kilograms it is way too easy to overload them. It just brings out the need to read the flaming manual, don't believe the Hype, and make sure your caravan stated weights are accurate before you commit to buying!
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 13:07

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 13:07
The same applies to almost all sedan 4wds
Landcruiser 200 610Kg
Prado 680Kg
Colarado 610 Kgs
Disco 4 680Kgs
Pathfinder 680Kgs
or the worst of the bunch, Nissan Patrol 582Kg

Take your pick.

The Landcrusier can have a GVM upgrade to over 1 ton. Not sure about the others.
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 17:36

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 17:36
And when you figure in a ballweight of 300Kg or so it wouldnt need to be a big lunch either.

Some dont realise that its part of the payload.
So just to harp on an old violin here are weight definitions
The Tow vehicle

Tare is dry with 10L of fuel only
Kerb is with full fuel tanks and nothing else unless stated
GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass and is the Maximum allowable total weight of the loaded vehicle and if towing includes the ball weight.
The Van

Tare SHOULD be dry weight as comes from the factory.
No gas bottles etc. Anything added after by the dealer comes out of payload.
GTM is the maximum allowable legal weight on the axles only.
ATM is the maximum legal weight on the axles and jockey wheel'
Both the prev are limits, NOT weighable amounts. They are stated limits
GCM is the maximum legal allowable weight of the combination of the tugs GVM and the vans GTM.

What your rig weighs at any one time is its "Actual loaded weight" and is not described as GTM or ATM which is a set amount which you should not exceed
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Follow Up By: Notso - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:56

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:56
And the winner is: Jeep Grand Cherokee at 749 kilos!
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:11

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:11
Not even close Notso.

I would say out of the factory second prize goes to a 70 series wagon at 905kg and first prize to a defender station wagon at 1078.

I guess 3rd prize goes to a GVM upgrade 200 unless you can think of a GVM upgraded wagon that beats it.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:48

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:48
I don't think the defender is available anymore? Do they still sell the 70 series wagon? I thought it was gone too? I think they only sold 2 of them outside of the mining industry!
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 07:13

Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 07:13
Lol. Right!

You can still buy new Defenders if you are quick and believe it or not they didn't ban second hand ones. You can still buy them as long as you like.


As to the 70 series , not sure where you got that they are no longer sold. They are and still will be for sale for at least a few more years. Yep Toyota never sold a single Landcruiser outside a mine, or a Hilux. Even every single Corolla and Yaris went to BHP. They look quite good with the safety lights and mine flags don't you think?

You must have a great source of information notso.
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Reply By: Hoyks - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:50

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:50
I think the issue is a combination of ignorance on the part of owners and manufactures being economical with the truth.

My ute has a 3500km tow rating, but to pull that I probably can only have a full tank of fuel, the Mrs, myself, a toothbrush between us and a packet of chips in the tray. The vehicle manufacturer doesn't make that bit at all clear in their advertising.

Van manufacturers are just as bad. Often they will give a weight of the van with nothing inside, no gas bottles, no water tanks, no spare wheels. I have had friends that got a nasty surprise when they stopped at a weigh bridge on the way home from picking up their new van to find it was 200kg over the stated tare weight before they had stuck so much as a set of cutlery in the draws.

But you can fix it all with a load leveling hitch and a set of air bags, or so it would seem.
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Reply By: Member - John - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 13:07

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 13:07
Should be more of it and also a towing licence.......................
John

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Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:00

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:00
Maybe they have to pass a towing and reversing test wouldn't that shake things up.
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Follow Up By: Traveller61 - Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 14:25

Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 14:25
Totally agree. Too often we see people reversing their 22 foot vans and they have no clue. They should have to pass a towing test and there should be subject to random weight checks. I bet that would take half the vans off the road.
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 19:18

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 19:18
I have towed trailers and vans around the place and clocked up I would say 120,000 kilometres going forward. Now come to reversing them I would have travelled less than 1 kilometre going backwards.

Yes I found it much easier to back a camper trailer and a 14 foot van than I do my present one.

It is also a little unnerving when you have Jackie sitting on the fence beside his 7 foot long camper trailer snickering and giggling watching some one reverse something 3 times as long into a spot the same size as you did.

The Good Samaritan thing to do, would be go over and show him how to do it, or at least give some assistance.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 20:16

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 20:16
Bluey, I couldn't agree more. You see the fence sitters just waiting for someone to screw up. Many of the sites were made for old 16 foot vans and you have to screw the suspension really hard to get in, it often takes a couple of goes as there is no room. These same people don't offer any assistance by guiding, tutoring or calming the person having troubles.

I have travelled just the odd K over the years and seen many trailer/ camper trailer and single vehicle steerers who couldn't reverse to save themselves. I know of a few MC steerers that can't do it either.

I have just travelled another 4000 + K's, in that time have not come across anyone having problems. Maybe I just don't go to the right places to see it or I am going blind, who knows.

I actually believe we should all pass a test every 5 years, both practical and road knowledge. Some of the type writers maybe surprised how many road rules they break and how many rules they don't know.

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 20:41

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 20:41
Too true, Slow!

Ha ha, I can back a 40' trailer and dolly onto a B triple, but at home, when I want to reverse my box trailer I unhook it and wheel it into position by hand.........or put the 'cruiser into low range. :-)

Slow 'n steady is secret for reversing, along with a lot of regular practice.

Bob
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 21:03

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 21:03
Bob, have been tired and backed your car up with the mirrors and turned the wheel the wrong way. Been guilty of that a few times.
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Follow Up By: Traveller61 - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 07:57

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 07:57
Why should it be the other people in the caravan parks responsibility to help a person to back there big rig. If you do not have the skills to back your rig into a site you should reconsider the rig you are towing or complete some training before competent in reversing. Its not a joke and damn right dangerous.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Friday, May 20, 2016 at 13:05

Friday, May 20, 2016 at 13:05
Don't know, but I myself have always tried to live by these words.

Follow this and the world would be a better place.
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Reply By: Batt's - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:26

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:26
So just checking on a car licence you can have a gvm of 4,500kg does that mean the weight of your car and van combined can not be over that or does gcm come into play there, if it does what is the max gcm you can have on a c class licence.
All the research I've been doing keeps coming up with 4,500kg gvm, no gcm for a car licence. I have a HC just wonder what the max is for my wife's c class licence whenever we get another van.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:54

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:54
It has always been the case that the licence covers you to drive the car. You can tow a caravan with that licence. A bit strange really but that is how it is at the moment but I wouldn't be too surprised in the future to see a special class of licence issued for towing Caravans..
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:56

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:56
You can drive a tug of 4495 KG GVM plus a van of whatever to make up the GCM on a car licence.

Eg my Cruiser was 3260 GVM plus a van of 2900ATM to give a GCM of 5.860 GCM.

I have a licence up to HR but dont need more than a car for what I was driving.

So any old retiree that has spent their life driving a Corolla can buy a Jeep Commander (if so inclined) and a Bushtracker and off they go around OZ with no additional training whatever. They do and a lot manage as long as nothing goes wrong.
However at one park a lady with an Avan and a Camry had to ask someone to reverse her rig into place. She said she never bothered to learn because someone always will do it for her. Yeah right.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:41

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:41
That's 6160 kg if I'm not wrong or is it reduced because of tow ball weight.
Sounds like you can get away with a fairly large gcm on a car licence our last 4WD and van loaded was a bit over 4,200 kg which my wife was happy towing. Thanks
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 23:10

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 23:10
Wondered if I would catch someone Read my weight definitions, the answer is in there.

If you add the GVM and ATM together you have counted the ballweight twice
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Reply By: skulldug - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:40

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:40
Danny1,

There are a lot of people out there with overloaded rigs but they aren't generally the modern utes.

Any LC 200 with bullbar and tinny on top would exceed their payload if they are towing a reasonable van.








AnswerID: 600164

Reply By: Jackolux - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 22:00

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 22:00
How many of you actually know the weight of your Rigs ,
AnswerID: 600169

Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 22:55

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 22:55
Jack, not at present, vehicle is in a state of flux, but when mods finished, it will be weighed full tanks etc, as if ready to take wife and myself with trailer to the vast interior of this great country. The planned weight should be well with in GVM, but one never knows until weighed.
John

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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 23:18

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 23:18
You might be in for a shock , I have access to a weigh bridge anytime I want at no cost
The mates and have I have been weighing our 4wd's for years , you might be surprised how it adds up .
I even rode the motorbike over the bridge yesterday , Yamaha FJR1300 = 420Kg including me .
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 23:30

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 23:30
Jack, exactly why it is under going mods. I weighed it and was shocked. I have had a GVM increase done and also cut the back of it, time will tell if I have been successful or not.......... if not, back to the drawing board.
John

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 06:53

Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 06:53
I maintain an Excel spreadsheet that has the basic weight of the vehicle and any items loaded, which is not as onerous as it might seem as the all the gear stays in the vehicle usually.

I’ve defined basic weight of the vehicle as anything that is permanently fixed to the vehicle, but excludes fuel. To calculate this weight I simply put it over a weight bridge with a full tank of fuel, but with all items that are not permanent removed. From the weighbridge figure I deducted the weight of the fuel (180 litres x a specific gravity of 0.82 to arrive at weight in kilograms).

Once the basic weight is known it won’t change unless you add or remove a modification or accessories.

Add the number of people and update for fuel and water carried.

For fuel I simply put in the current kilometres and it works out remaining fuel based on average consumption (so could be out 5% or thereabouts) converts to kilograms and adds to the basic weight to arrive at a total figure when all other items are totalled.

Happy to send a copy of the spreadsheet to anyone, email address is in my profile.

Bear in mind vehicles weights are not just about GVM, but also individual axle limitations.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy




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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 09:07

Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 09:07
I just read some of their specs their tare is around 2,115 kg and have a gvm 3,300 kg so they can take a fair load plus you can upgrade the gvm which make it even better.

Better than my GQ which only has a gvm of 2,800 kg and no legal upgrade but I read on a 4WD forum that somebody changed the body to a GU then it goes of their gvm which is 3,200 kg. Expensive way to do it but handy if you need a new look or body might be an upgrade I may have to look at later on unless there is an engineer that can legally upgrade mine that is actually recognised by all the authorities.
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Follow Up By: Member - Warren H - Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 21:57

Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 21:57
"Better than my GQ which only has a gvm of 2,800 kg"

But for my maverick wagon the tare is 1,990 giving a respectable 810 kg payload.
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