Holden Colorado 2010 3.0ltr 4X4 lack of power

Submitted: Friday, May 27, 2016 at 15:40
ThreadID: 132547 Views:5616 Replies:8 FollowUps:23
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Further to my thread 132314,
Further investigation of reduced power when pulling away in first gear and lack of power on hills.
Have had scan gauge check of EGR ok Injectors also all within specs ok.

In desperation drove vehicle into new estate at Airlie Beach (extremely steep) and climbed long hill in first gear at 800 to 1000rpm with obvious engine miss which disappeared when I accelerated above approx 1000rpm and then jumped as turbo cuts in at 1600rpm. Then took vehicle to local diesel mechanic told him of the problem and my frustration with nobody being able to diagnose problem.
Once again scan gauge showed no problem, but mechanic agreed to come with me (scan gauge still connected) up the previously mentioned road and there it was at around 1000rpm number 2 and 3 injector played up.
The injectors in this vehicle were replaced with genuine new injectors 60k ago (18mths ago) therefore no warranty (standard line prob bad fuel) and am looking at another $4k approx for another set of injectors.
So much for common rail technology!
6 year old vehicle been looked after, but with 232k on clock only worth 10k wholesale.
Changeover 30 to 35k
What to do, either way throw good money after bad.
Sorry for negative tone just feel that the market is ripping us off.

Grant
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 16:04

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 16:04
Grant
Its a problem that lots of owners of common rail diesels are going to have.
Fuel quality is so important .

Spend big money getting them fixed or cough up bigger money for a new Vehicle .

I know its not very forward thinking , but that's why I hang on to the old Troopie.

Cheers
AnswerID: 600653

Follow Up By: Member - mechpete - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 17:37

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 17:37
I,m with you markD18
I would be spewin if I had to spend that sought of money on a vehicle
with that many Ks onit stick with the TD42 Gq
mechpete
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FollowupID: 869989

Reply By: mountainman - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 17:06

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 17:06
You need to install a pre fuel filter to help the factory fitted one.
not much help otherwise to you
but do the fuel filter
before any future work on the car
AnswerID: 600656

Reply By: Jackolux - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 17:10

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 17:10
Is it only 4 injectors you need fitted , if it is it shouldn't cost $4K , unless there is something very special about Isuzu injectors .

232k is not to bad really , I replaced 2 sets in my Hilux D4D first set $3450 drive in drive out . Second set $2250 drive in drive out . I believe there are more suppliers out there now and prices are even more competitive

I would shop around if I were you .
AnswerID: 600657

Reply By: Grant L - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 18:18

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 18:18
Thanks everyone,
I am thinking that these two injectors that are playing up, only under extreme load, are
typical of off the shelf poor quality, not ingestion of poor fuel quality.
Fuel filter changed by me every 10k and checked for any sign of contamination.
Motor idles and drives very well, no injector rattle when cold, plenty of pick up through 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, but put van on or even air con and its there

Grant
AnswerID: 600660

Follow Up By: Colcam42 - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 19:30

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 19:30
Hello Grant, I have been using a product from Cost Effective Maintenance, Queensland, in the Toyota. Really impressed as only a couple of tanks and a distinct improvement with regards to injector noise, smoothness and apparent "get-up-and-go" Worth a try before buying more injectors, This is the stuff I got:
CRD Fuel Enhancer for Common Rail Engines
Size 250 ml 1 $54.00
In the correct dose, good for many litres of fuel. Have a look at their web site for more info, CRD Maintenance Link (too wet to dash out to get the info off of the bottle)
Col
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FollowupID: 869995

Follow Up By: Paul E6 - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 20:01

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 20:01
I think ill keep my 06 rodeo.
1300 last week for new set of injectors. Pulls like a bull now.
1
FollowupID: 869999

Follow Up By: Member - Charlie M (SA) - Friday, May 27, 2016 at 21:19

Friday, May 27, 2016 at 21:19
Give Bailey Diesel in Queenland a call.
They rebuild and have changeover injectors.
Used their injectors in a D4D Prado 120.
Was about $1100 for the injectors plus deposit
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FollowupID: 870001

Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 01:40

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 01:40
Grant - Genuine "Made in Japan" Denso injectors for the 4JJ-1 Isuzu engine, as fitted to your Colorado are $495 off eBay, with $10 postage (from Vic).
There shouldn't be a huge labour charge involved in fitting them.

Install a better fuel filtering system, replace the crook injectors, and keep the vehicle, it's good for 500,000kms if you can keep the body rust at bay.

Denso 4JJ-1 injectors - eBay

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 600666

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:52

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:52
Grant - If you also look further, you will often find these products available direct from Chinese traders - and they are still genuine Denso.
The Chinese are business traders - always have been business traders - and they will often source genuine parts at reasonable prices.

Isuzu - 4JJ-1 Denso genuine injectors

It pays to ensure that you are dealing with a reputable Chinese trader - and that you use a payment system such as PayPal or Credit Card for payment.
Don't use bank transfer direct to the sellers bank, or Western Union - because there's a good chance that they'll just pocket your money, and not send the item/s.

You do have to put up with China's slow postal system (if they come from inside China) - but you will often find the Chinese trader has organised business links with traders in other countries, where the item is manufactured - or where local taxes are low - making the purchase considerably cheaper.

Often the parts will arrive from another country - such as Malaysia or Thailand - because the trader has business arrangements with the trader/dealer there, and has arranged "drop-shipping" of the item/s.

If you want the parts fast and the freight charges are not excessive, it quite often pays to send the parts via air express. The air freight is nearly always carried by DHL, so you know that there's very little chance of the items disappearing.

Cheers, Ron.
1
FollowupID: 870018

Follow Up By: Grant L - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 18:42

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 18:42
Thanks Ron,

Having injectors looked at Monday also requesting comp. test and will enquire about pump pressure check before spending on four new injectors.
can't get my head around no injector rattle when cold and also why injectors come good when revs increase and turbo comes in.

regards Grant
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FollowupID: 870028

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:25

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:25
Grant - The major problem with CR injection systems is that they run at exceptionally fine tolerances - about half the tolerance/clearance of the older injection system components.

The old style, Bosch type, relatively-low-pressure systems, operated with clearances around 0.0025mm. CR systems operate with clearances as low as 0.001mm.

The CR systems are badly affected by any water in the fuel, the tiniest particles of grit or rust, and by gums and varnishes that are deposited by the fuel.
Chemicals are added to diesel today to try and assist in injection system component lubrication, ever since sulphur was almost completely removed from diesel.

These chemicals assist in the deposition of the gums and varnishes in the injector components.
The exceptionally high pressures of CR injection also create high temperatures in the diesel as it is compressed. This heat also aids in creating deposits in the injectors moving components.

In addition, the moving parts of a CR injector develop tiny scratches from the gums, varnishes and impurities in the fuel. These tiny scratches cause the injector spindle to stick, resulting in inoperative injectors - particularly at lower RPM's.

Baileys have a good website and good videos on CR injectors. In addition, they have "blueprinted" reconditioned injectors. These are $324 each for the Isuzu 4JJ-1. You need to supply your old injectors, the Bailey blueprinted injectors are supplied on an exchange basis.

The critical parts of a CR injector are coated at the factory with what is known as "DLC" - Diamond-Like Carbon coating.

This is a plasma coating, and an exceptionally hard (and expensive) coating which is applied to the pintle valve at the bottom, and the check valve at the top of the injector, when they're manufactured.

The DLC coating also conveniently has a very low co-efficient of friction, so it is doubly advantageous when used in CR injectors.

Baileys insist that their additional coating of the spindle (as well as the aforementioned valves) with DLC, improves injector performance and longevity by a considerable amount - and they offer 36 mths/50,000 km warranty to back up their work.

You may want to consider acquiring some of Baileys injectors as they are cheaper than new ones, and are obviously improved on, over factory new injectors.

The bottom line is you need to install a water separator, and a better fuel filtration arrangement, that can preferably filter down to one micron (0.001mm).
Both of these setups are crucial if you want to reach a satisfactory lifespan with CR injectors and fuel systems.

Baileys blueprinted injectors

Baileys blueprinted injector to suit Isuzu 4JJ-1

Cheers, Ron.
2
FollowupID: 870031

Reply By: swampy - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:19

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:19
hi
Compression test is only fair by itself
You need to to do a leak down test also .
Then a max turbo pressure test
Check for splits in intake tubing /intercooler [or pressure test ]
Are the vents for the tank working
Is there bubbles on the inlet fuel line = air leak some where
Tappets adjusted ??? compression test does not always pick this up
Inlet manifold full of oil/cabon sludge??
Timing belt ok??
Check for early signs of blown head gasket .
Some variable vane turbos have issues ??
swamp
AnswerID: 600684

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:33

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:33
Swampys on the ball. All those abovementioned things are vital to check.

Many Variable Vane turbos stop operating properly when the levels of carbon on them build up - often as low as 120,000kms from new.

Tappet adjustment is largely forgotten today - but a tappet adjustment on a motor that has done more than 150,000kms, and which has never had a tappet adjustment, will often produce a marked difference in performance.

Cheers, Ron.
2
FollowupID: 870032

Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:36

Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 20:36
The tank has an in tank pressure pump therefore NO bubbles will happen.

It has no timing belt it has a chain.

Earl signs of blown head gaskey. ??????? It works OK and doesn't have gasket type issues according to post.

Please check EGR vale operation.
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FollowupID: 870033

Follow Up By: swampy - Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 11:32

Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 11:32
hi
Even if it has a primer pump in tank air bubbles can still pass o rings in one direction . All be it an unusual problem it does happen across many industries . Auto , refrigeration and hydraulics .
Cracks in pickup tube in tank .
Does it have a manual primer pump /air leaks
Yes the vehicle does appear to have major issue but some head gaskets cannot be detected by any method /donot give any indication . All be it rare .

swamp
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FollowupID: 870045

Reply By: gbc - Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 05:09

Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 05:09
I had the same model. Your symptoms are similar to what I had with a malfunctioning suction control valve. It took ages to work out as scan gauge can't pick it up. $150 part. Anyway, just another thing to throw at your mechanic. It was the only thing that went wrong with mine. I ran 2 stroke in mine full time for 6 years. Whether it helped or hindered we will never know but it was very reliable.
AnswerID: 600689

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 10:54

Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 10:54
GBC - One of the most thorough and enlightening scientific studies, with regard to adding two-stroke oil to diesel, is in the link below.

2-stroke oil in diesel - technical study

Essentially, the above technical study, done in South Africa, concludes that no benefit comes from adding 2-stroke oil to diesel - and in fact, it actually degrades the diesel, and adds undesirable contaminants such as zinc and copper that cause stubborn injector deposits.

The study is very comprehensive and carries out tests on a range of diesel fuels refined to varying standards.
The Australian Diesel Fuel Standard is based very closely on the European EN590 Standard.

I know many old tractor and old diesel aficionados regularly state that 2-stroke oil added to diesel is a beneficial additive to the diesel.

In the case of old-style, low-pressure Bosch-type fuel injection systems - and old machines and engines that have been neglected and which have been lying around unused for long periods - then a dose of 2-stroke oil more than likely is beneficial.
This would be because the detergents in the 2-stroke oil free up the gums and varnishes that have built up over an extended period of lack of use.

I have actually had a near-new Lister engine injection pump seize completely with a period of lack of use - due to the diesel's lighter fractions evaporating and leaving a heavy gum that glued the pump plunger solid in the plunger housing.

However, current common rail fuel injection technology has vastly different operating parameters, and fuel requirements, to the old-style Bosch fuel injection systems.

The fuel supplied to us, as it comes from refineries, refined to Australian Diesel Fuel Standard (2001), has all the correct fuel properties and the correct level of lubricity, to perform very satisfactorily in all our current diesel engines.

The refined fuel is tested regularly to ensure it meets the ADFS - which has quite strict parameters for around about 18 items covering everything from viscosity to water and sediment content.

Australian Fuel Quality Standards

Fuel Standard Determination (Automotive Diesel) 2001

However, interestingly, the ADFS allows a Water and Sediment value for Automotive Diesel, of up to 0.05% volume maximum.

This "allowed" level of water and sediment, equates to 500PPM - or equal to 1 litre of water in every 2000 litres of fuel!

Naturally, most diesel fuel supplied has nothing like this level of water in it. However, the authorities recognise that water accumulates in fuel naturally - purely due to condensation - particularly from large tanks that have low fuel levels.

Add in the fact that different fuels are regularly pumped through the same pipeline - from refineries and docks, to large storage tanks in fuel storage areas - utilising blocks of water to separate the different fuel types being pumped - and you can see that we are reliant on the fuel handlers keeping their filtering levels up to the required standard.

Then, we have contamination in underground service station tanks from water and sediment, and we have added potential for fuel to become degraded.

In summary, all of the above merely reinforces, that the best thing you can do for your engines fuel supply, is to install a very good filtering system, and one that has an effective water separator as part of the deal.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 870041

Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 09:39

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 09:39
GBC, just curious, what is the function of the "Suction Control Valve" ???? Cheers, John
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 09:51

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 09:51
I've no idea, but without it the car occasionally stalled without warning and had intermittent loss of power.
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FollowupID: 870067

Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 09:55

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 09:55
GBC, Thanks, maybe something to do with the fuel pick up in the tank, maybe??
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: gbc - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 10:02

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 10:02
I'm lead to believe it's in the fuel rail. They have changed part numbers for them as the original lot were dicky.
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FollowupID: 870069

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 10:32

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 10:32
Baileys will explain all the CR injection design, operation, and problems for you, with great clarity! - here's the explanation for the SCV.

Baileys - Suction Control Valve

Cheers, Ron.
1
FollowupID: 870070

Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 11:12

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 11:12
Ron, thanks, as they say, "You learn something new everyday". Funny name though for a fuel control valve, LOL
John and Jan

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FollowupID: 870071

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 14:24

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 14:24
Baileys recently put up a video endorsing the use of 2 Stroke with CRD engines

They noted that it was more beneficial with some over others with Denso injectors being one that it was a good thing to do others it noted made little difference
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FollowupID: 870132

Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 14:46

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 14:46
http://www.baileysdiesel.com/on-highway/truth-adding-two-stroke-oil-diesel-modern-common-rail-engines/#comment-666

It quietened my fuel rail straight away and always let me know when I had forgotten to use it.

They have gotten around the low sulphur gasket/injection issues now so its largely a retrospective argument unless you have an older gen engine.
1
FollowupID: 870133

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 12:55

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 12:55
Grant you should read this thread of mine. http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/132365/2012_navara_2_5_D40.aspx?o=E869973 If I get the vehicle back and as it looks now I'm not paying the 9 grand so it may well remain at the dealership. If I get it back it will be sold immediately and I'm going back to something old and simple. No electronics and small engines. The vehicles these days are all good until you have a problem and can change the vehicle every 100000km or so. They are throw away. I'm sorry about your Colorado but I think it's a sign of the times. Not sure if it's where they are built now, the quality control, the design or the fact they can't handle Australian conditions. They go great and are comfortable but give me back a good solid patrol or cruiser any day.
AnswerID: 600733

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 23:52

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 23:52
Kirk, the Isuzu engines are a far better engine than the Nissan engines.
I've had quite a few Isuzu engines apart, and they are very well built.

Too much European (Renault) design has gone into the current Nissan engines.

As an RAC bloke said to me once, through gritted teeth - "NEVER EVER buy any FRENCH vehicle! - they are UTTER crap!!"
He would know! - he had to work on them, trying to get them going, on a regular basis!

Yes, the older mechanical-injection engines were much simpler, more tolerant of poor quality fuel, tolerant of lack of maintenance, and withstood abuse better.

Unfortunately, we will never see simplicity in diesels again, the drive for more power with lower emissions has made them as complex as any petrol engine - with probably even less tolerance for poor maintenance and abuse than current petrol engines.

However, with proper treatment the better brands perform quite satisfactorily.
The brother was telling me just tonight, that the 2005 Landcruiser wagon he bought new, is still going well at 800,000kms, in the hands of another bloke.
It's been through 3 owners and he knows all the owners well.
The suspension has been rebuilt twice, but the basic engine is still original.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 870106

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 07:21

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 07:21
Ron,
hate to say this, but Isuzu are talking to Volvo about putting the 13litre Volvo engine in their heavy end trucks.
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FollowupID: 870108

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:41

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:41
9900 Eagle - That could be an attempt by Isuzu to crack into the road-train market that all the Jap truck manufacturers have wanted to get into for a couple of decades. The Jap trucks are all still only seen as "medium weight" trucks.

Just as long as they don't install Volvo electrics into the Isuzu, we'll be sweet! LOL

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 870117

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:15

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:15
No, they are only interested in the 500hp engines for short haul and tippy work.

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FollowupID: 870124

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