Off road camper trailers ?

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
ThreadID: 1326 Views:2467 Replies:45 FollowUps:7
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Ok the question has to be asked which is REALLY the best!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have one is it good? or is it well you know ,rubbish!
And why?? we all need to know.
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Reply By: Stuart - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
i have owned a kanga camper for two years,travelled to the flinders twice,corner country, cape york and just returned from frazer island and have nothing but praise for it. easy to put up and down and tows like a dream,VERY strongly built.
AnswerID: 4268

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4270

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4271

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4272

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4273

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4274

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4275

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4276

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4277

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4278

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4279

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4280

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4281

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4282

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4283

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4284

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4285

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4286

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4287

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4288

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4289

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4290

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4291

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4292

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4293

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4294

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4295

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4296

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4297

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4298

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4299

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4300

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4301

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4302

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4303

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4304

Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
But the point to remember Jeff is they are only really off bitumen camper trailers. You can't take them to real off road destinations. Sand, mud, high country all make anything behind you a huge liability and in most cases impossible. Get a good tent if you want to do any serious four wheel driving. Good luck!
AnswerID: 4305

Follow Up By: Brian - Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00

Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 at 00:00
Did you get that Jeff ?????????
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FollowupID: 1838

Follow Up By: Jeff - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
Brian I think you made your point 36 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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FollowupID: 1840

Follow Up By: Peter - Sunday, Jun 23, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Jun 23, 2002 at 00:00
Brian, yow really must be a WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWanker
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FollowupID: 1872

Reply By: Nigel - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
We had one with the ALCO rubber suspension and it bounced too much.
Got a campomatic now with independent coils and shocks - it's great in every way (well the bill wasn't great, but you get what you pay for).
AnswerID: 4307

Reply By: Mike - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
Jeff, I guess we all got Brian's point, however we don't all agree. I've towed our camper trailer over the high country, some snow and rough tracks and am really impressed, especially when it's time to turn in and there's no tent to have to erect. What is best for you will depend on many things, budget, numbers of occupants and amount of use, are all important. We chose a hard floored camper because there are just 2 of us and we will be living in it for 4 months later this year. We chose Kimberly Kamper because it offered the best finish, in our opinion, and the stainless kitchen was superior to Aussie swag's powder coated unit. The service offered by the saleman also helped. I was keen on the 'T'van, but there were none in SA at the time to look at. The help from the sales people in Melbourne was fantastic and the van looked terrific, but we really needed a local dealer, in case of problems. Campomatic still haven't replied to our request for info, so we wonder about their after sales service. Compared to Aussie and Kimberly, Cub looked like a toy. In summary, we are more than happy with the Kimberly Kamper, and would recommend them if you are looking in this price range.happy trails, Mike.
PS. I'll only send this once, so I don't take up valuble air time.
AnswerID: 4309

Follow Up By: Nigel - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
Campermatic were probably too busy building my trailer to reply to you :)

But seriously a good local dealer for a product is invaluable, and that's why we got a campomatic.The kimberley was equal on my list, with both having some points that I prefered over the other.

I ended up getting a slightly customised build so I could have everything the way I wanted it :)
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FollowupID: 1846

Reply By: Graham - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
Jeff,
For what it is worth, our experiences with towing trailers off road is to say the least been a pain in the arse. As pointed out before a trailer will limit you sooner or later (we had first hand experience on a trip through Africa) But at the end of the day it is what works best for you. One consideration that you have to make is the type of tow vehicle you will be using (big/medium/small). One trip we made was towing a Kimberley, they are a good solid unit, but weighs over a tonne fully loaded. We towed one to Fraser behind a Prado and found that every time we hit soft sand the weight on the draw bar was such that it caused the back wheels of the vehicle to bury. I'm not sure if their design has changed but the one we hired had an 80 litre water tank in front of the axle along with the main storage box, battery, jerry can holders etc on the draw bar with no real balancing weight behind the axle.
AnswerID: 4315

Follow Up By: Axel +karen - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
Jeff, stands to reason that if the trailer is not balaced ,you have problems, the old rule of thumb is to have the tow ball / hitch weight 10% of the total trailer weight,,our trailer comes in at 750kg fully loaded ,60ltr water ,40 fuel, 2x 4.5 gas ,2x batteries ,all forward of the axle ,,BUT ball weight still only 73kg,,,,,,legal tow weight for vehicle is 2500kg,,,legal ball weight upto and including 250kg,,,the vehicle does not even know its towing a trailer,,,,,all in balance........Axel
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FollowupID: 1843

Reply By: brian - Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00

Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 at 00:00
Oops!!! Sorry about the replies. Didn't seem to be sending so I kept clicking. This one will go once only! Good advice from everyone for you Jeff. It depends on what you want and where you want to go. But I stick with my statement that if you want to go into any of the many challenging areas available in Australia think very carefully before you try to drag a tonne or so behind you. Also some areas forbid it eg the Simpson Desert because as well as being a potential hazard to the tower, it is also environmentally damaging (much greater damage by the tow vehicle dragging a trailer over the more than 1,000 dunes). I travelled in a sand dune area with a friend who has a trailer and found that he had to back up and have a second go at dunes which I cruised over. He used much more fuel than me (particularly when the going was a bit tough) and he took longer to set up and pack up than we did. We were all "couples" on the trip.
AnswerID: 4318

Reply By: Simon - Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00
I agree with Nigel. I brought a new camp/o/matic that was slightly customised and am very happy. They are not cheap but cheaper than Kimberley for very similar product.

AnswerID: 4325

Reply By: mal - Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00
Jeff, I have a wife and three kids. It is not practical nor safe to fit all our gear in the back and on the roof of the 4by when going away for a period of time. The alternatives are, a) to not go, b) stay in rented accomodation, c) have a camper trailer.
In our opinion a camper trailer is the best compromise of the 3. Sure, there are some places you can't tow a trailer, commonsense should prevail for especially soft or steep tracks, or places were you can't back a trailer up etc, but as noted earlier what is the alternative ?
We have a Gumnut Tent Camper Trailer (sadly the company went out of business 18 months ago after 17 years of operation).
It is basically a very heavy duty box trailer with a fold out tent. It has a proper chassis, off-road coupling, off-road supsension etc. It weighs in at 470Kg unloaded, probably about 650-700kg loaded.
We have taken it approx 16,000 km, to Fraser Island, parts of outback QLD, the Flinders Ranges and selected spots in VIC and NSW.
We have had no problems towing on on Fraser Island or any where else we have taken it. We own a Prado, which is standard except for a dual battery system and a CB radio.
As commented in other peoples posts, balance and weight on the towbar is important. Also, it is important to realise, if you have a 4by with a big single back door like the Prado, or Pajero, then you don't want a "cluttered" drawbar, otherwise you cannot open the door fully to get at the fridge etc because the door will foul on the boxes etc that are on the draw bar. We looked at lots of camper trailers that rule themselves out on this basis.
Also, if you are towing in sand, make sure you air down the tyres, just like you do with the vehicle. It also preferable if your camper trailer has the same track as the vehicle towing it. It does make a considerable difference in the towing experience.
For the touring and towing that we have done with the camper trailer, I estimate the increase in fuel has averaged around 1-2 litres per 100km extra over.
Hope this helps.
Mal58
AnswerID: 4326

Reply By: Brian Noyes - Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00
My two bob's worth might be of a little help. I have a Camp-o-Matic camper and couldn't be happier. I bought it from a hire place at a good price three years ago and have probably spent about $3000 on it to get just how I need it. Now it is an Off Road version (Shocks, heavy duty springs, etc) but I have towed it about 35,000 Kms since I bought it behind a Holden Commodore VS Station Wagon. I have fitted pump up air shocks to the car and of course I have not been able to go to the real "Off Road" areas but I did tow it up the Oodnadatta Track two years ago with no worries. I recommend the hard top as when it rains and I have camped in plenty of that at least a dry floor and bed. Mind you I think most camper trailers will keep the bed dry. I know they are a lot dearer but I have travelled a lot of Australia in the past three years (Cape York, Central Australia, Western Australia and some of the Kimberley) and for me a hard top is the way to go. Somebody mentioned that Camp-o-Matic won't reply to E-Mails. Well, you are right. I have never had a reply from an E-Mail from them yet but if you ring them they are very helpful. I know a phone call will cost more but I don't know why they won't answer E-Mails as I asked them and they claim they do but I will get a shock if I ever get a reply. Anyway for me if you are looking at long term travelling over many years then go for a hard top. I think they are all pretty good these days as I have had a good look at them at the caravan and camping shows over the years (mainly in Sydney as I live in Bathurst NSW). It all comes to what you want to spend and are able to spend. I was lucky as I paid $8300 for a camper that was one year old that new would have cost me $16000. From what I can see now second hand campers in good condition are about as rare as hens teeth at a reasonable price. Hope you get what you want and enjoy the greatest country on earth.
AnswerID: 4330

Follow Up By: Bob - Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Jun 20, 2002 at 00:00
Brian I think the point that others have made is that the camper trailer is not suitable for true off road use. The last time I was up th Oodnadatta track (when there was water in Lake Eyre 2 years ago, there were sedans towing full sized caravans so it doesn't really qualify as a test!! Does the fact that when you bought it your trailer had depreciated just on 50% tell you anything? Remember that what you pay for an article is the current value ... if there had been anyone else willing to pay more they would have sold it to them!!
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FollowupID: 1851

Follow Up By: Damien - Friday, Jun 21, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 21, 2002 at 00:00
Bob, does Brian sound concerned about your so-called depreciation. Have you thought for one moment that he may have actually got a great deal because somebody needed the money desperately.
Unless you're going real hard core 4wding, a camper can be taken nearly anywhere.
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FollowupID: 1859

Reply By: Brian Noyes - Friday, Jun 21, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Jun 21, 2002 at 00:00
Bob, I guess I was just lucky at the time. I agree with what you say in general. I bought it from a hire place in Sydney and I don't really know why it was so cheap. No, I would not have sold it if a higher price was offered as it was just what my wife and I needed. I also accept that the Oodnadatta Track is not a real test. I don't care where anyone tows a camper or caravan it all comes back to plain common sense with whatever vehicle you are towing with and whatever you are towing. There is the odd cowboy out there but thank god they are a rare sight. With the right vehicle I can tell you that my camper could be towed anywhere WITH CARE. Anyway Jeff who asked the original question I hope my two cents(No GST) worth might help you.
AnswerID: 4346

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