More 4WD Misinformation Care of the ABC

Submitted: Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 14:48
ThreadID: 132791 Views:3143 Replies:11 FollowUps:17
This Thread has been Archived
See the article at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-18/research-shows-cars-deadly-in-floodwaters/7522798

Note the video caption: "Timelapse shows 4WD floating as water passes floorpan"

No, no, no, no. It doesn't!

It shows the weight starting to come off the wheels at that point. The vehicle doesn't begin to float until the water reaches the bottom of the wheel arch extensions.

However it does show that your traction must start to become compromised at that point or shortly after and fast flowing water will become risker the deeper you go. (I know, I know, that last is a BGO - blinding glimpse of the obvious)

Having said all that it did float sooner than I thought it would, but then if it was loaded up like my Jackeroo is for a typical trip, the mass boyancy ratio would somewhat different and I would expect a much later float off.

The comments in the article about sealing of modern cars are interesting. Perhaps the poor dust and water sealing of all those Land Rovers was actually a designed safety feature for water crossings!

And nice of the Uni of NSW testers to pick on Patrol owners. ;o)

Cheers

Pete
Any mug can be uncomfortable out bush

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

Back Expand Un-Read 1 Moderator

Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 17:26

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 17:26
Gday Pete
That was on Ten news tonight . I thought it was only the rear wheels that looked a bit light and foaty.
I dont think it is only Land Rovers with the safety door seals, all the vehicles on Cape York seem to have plenty of water in the cabin when seen on Uchoob
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 601525

Reply By: Hoyks - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 18:06

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 18:06
People have been carrying out independent testing for years. This Guy was lucky there was next to no current.

My Dad did some testing years ago crossing a flooded low level bridge across the Hawkesbury.

He drove across in a '68 VW beetle, 1/2 way across the front end started floating and turning downstream. 1 wheel almost bounced over the edge of the low sided bridge when he scuttled the SS Volks Wagen by opening the door. He made it to work with wet feet, then got stuck there for 2 days.
AnswerID: 601529

Reply By: Steve - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 18:26

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 18:26
.... And nice of you to pick on Land Rovers
AnswerID: 601532

Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:01

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:01
These ones must be the ones to buy! They don't float at all! [;-)

Ocean-going 4WD's

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 601538

Reply By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:02

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:02
When it's all said and done, it's the speed of the water that catches people out and brings them undone. They think because they have done dozens of crossings at a certain depth that they can do shallower ones with faster flowing water. The car becomes lighter as soon as you enter the water as the tyres are trying their best to float. As the car becomes lighter it has trouble resisting the force of the current.
AnswerID: 601539

Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:54

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:54
.
Hang about a bit Pete. I think your'e splitting hairs here.

The experiment was intended to demonstrate how little water depth is necessary to produce vehicle buoyancy and the consequent possibility of being swept sideways from a bridge or causeway. You did go on to acknowledge that and the article continued on into more detail and vehicle characteristics.
But a subeditors use of the word "floating" does not demolish the message. If he had said "becoming buoyant".... would half the viewers understand?

As for heavy loading diminishing the buoyancy, I would think that the target audience of people driving home in suburbia are not driving heavily loaded vehicles. More likely two kids and a soccer ball. lol
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 601540

Follow Up By: MactrolPod - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 07:44

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 07:44
Thank you Allan B, if this was done loaded there would be comments about an empty 4B, or that's a different vehicle to mine.

During these few weeks there is a lot being said about not driving through water, this is a timely reminder. It might get the message out and that's got to be a good thing.
1
FollowupID: 871061

Reply By: fisho64 - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 22:35

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 22:35
Yes I saw some of that test and it makes sense.
Also though, means a trayback ute should be MUCH better in that situation
AnswerID: 601541

Follow Up By: gbc - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 07:20

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 07:20
That'd depend on a few things like is the fuel tank full or empty, but yes a loaded ute will fill quicker and sink faster generally. Empty Utes with empty fuel tanks and spares mounted under the tray will float the rear indefinitely.
Any given long weekend at rainbow beach rocks is a perfect time to test out these theories. Usually two seconds after the rear floats and tips the front in there is a puff of smoke as the engine takes a sip and it's all over bar the head scratching.
0
FollowupID: 871060

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 08:50

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 08:50
Na your wrong there I reckon.
Archimedes law.
A typical tray back ute unloaded might weigh say 800kg at the rear axle.
An empty 100 litre tank is 100kg of buoyancy and tyres?
I'd hazard a guess that's no more than 30 each nett.
The body will have less than half the volume for a dualcab and so would need to be twice as deep for the same buoyancy.
1
FollowupID: 871064

Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 08:07

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 08:07
It is the speed of the water along with the debris in it.
ie.
2.5 tonne F250 ambulance entering Grafton at the roundabout near the train viaduct just before the town was closed off.
Water height was to the bottom of the door and swiftly flowing.
Then came a patch of water hyacinth floating toward me.
The ambulance was taken about 40 metres along Ryan street untill it trundled to a stop on slightly higher ground then manged to disentangle the hyacinth and have another crack at the roundabout.
If there had been deep water downstream lotsa paperwork.
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
VKS 737 mobile 0049 selcall 0049

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 601545

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 09:51

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 09:51
One very important aspect of this 'controlled' float was the commentary , "vehicles today are air tight " blah blah blah , so have a tendency to float , .. perhaps the experiment should have also been done with what every good ole country boy gets told before crossing floodways and creek crossings , that being if you really must cross , 'Seat belt OFF , downstream window DOWN' , so if you do happen to be washed off the pathway you are not trapped in a sinking vehicle…..
AnswerID: 601554

Reply By: Member - Warrie (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:39

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:39
Is there a longer and deeper and slipperier causeway than Ivanhoe Crossing at Kununurra? Being always wet there is plenty of algae on the smooth concrete and the water has a 2m/sec flow at 40 cm deep. Sure most of it flows under your 4WD but if you have not done it before it is a hairy experience. It would be a good place to test the flotation/traction of some old clunkers from a wreckers.... W
Warrie

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 601557

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 11:45

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 11:45
I was waiting for someone to raise this point. Most concrete causeways in the North have a good coating of algae after a few days of warmer weather, and water flowing across them. They then become deadly slippery.

The internet photos of the numerous road trains washed downstream are testament to the fact that you can have lots and lots of weight - and it does nothing for you, if the footing is greasy, and the water is moderate depth and the current has adequate speed.

Cheers, Ron.
0
FollowupID: 871076

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 12:08

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 12:08
This is all it takes! You wouldn't call this deep water!

Police Cruiser washed off causeway

Cheers, Ron.
0
FollowupID: 871078

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 12:17

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 12:17
Crikey, you blokes, you're making me scared!

In 2009 I crossed Ivanhoe in a Prado towing a Kimberley Karavan. Water was flowing but you could clearly see the grooves in the short bollards on the downstream side. We had been told that if you could see those, then all ok. Got out, had a look at the depth but didn't know enough to test traction and saw others making the crossing, so based on that off we went.

We got across ok, absolutely no dramas, but I had a tide mark half way up the drivers (upstream) door.

Until now I hadn't even thought about slippery algae. Had it been there, water pressure half way up the door could well have seen us swimming with the crocs.

FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

1
FollowupID: 871080

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 16:44

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 16:44
Did those coppers book themselves?
0
FollowupID: 871104

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 18:38

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 18:38
Ha ha! - Yeah, what about them driving, wearing thongs? Seen people booked for that.
At the very least, there's got to be some job requirement for them to wear boots?
How are they going to kick ar$e, wearing just thongs? LOL
0
FollowupID: 871108

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 23:12

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 23:12
booked for wearing thongs?
Are you serious or joking?
0
FollowupID: 871122

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 23:54

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 23:54
No, I'm serious. I've known people who were booked for wearing thongs as they were deemed dangerous to drive in. "Inappropriate footwear for proper control of vehicle", as I understood it. Excessively high heels in the same boat.

Get a look at the instructions in the link below, when going for your practical driving test in QLD.
"Please wear enclosed shoes, no thongs or barefoot".

Practical Driving Test
0
FollowupID: 871124

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:25

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:25
Doesn't say anything about being illegal, just "please wear enclosed..."
I don't see how you could be charged on that basis for driving in thongs then or at any other time.
0
FollowupID: 871126

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 09:12

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 09:12
I agree that thongs can be 'messy on the pedals'.
But it seems every time I see a Truckie climb out of the cab, he is wearing thongs!
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 871137

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:01

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:01
I've owned a pair of Reebok thongs that nearly killed me. They were made of a particularly hard-wearing type of plastic in the upper sole area (where your foots sits), and this surface became incredibly slippery when coated with red dust.

I went to take a shortcut down the rock embankment of the old single lane Ashburton River Bridge at Nanutarra (the original Nanutarra Bridge), on my way back to the caravan park at the Roadhouse, in 2012.

I put my right foot on a large raised rock at the edge of the embankment, and propelled myself up and over with my left foot, intending to do a "rock-wallaby hop" from rock to rock down the embankment.

As I propelled myself with my left foot, my right foot, which was now bearing all my weight, promptly slipped straight out backwards from the Reebok thong, like my foot had been greased.

I lost my balance completely and launched myself out over the rock embankment in a graceful arc, landing flat on my right side, on what was exceptionally fortunately, a fairly flat rock surface.

My right thigh took the full impact of the fall - however, there was a small pointed projection in the centre of the flat rock surface, which impacted on the outer muscles of my right thigh, tearing ligaments and bruising muscle - which was exceptionally painful - and which muscular damage saw me dragging myself around like a shot and wounded animal, for a full week.

The whole exercise could have easily been fatal - people have died from lesser falls - and the whole exercise brought home to me forcibly, how important it is to have "appropriate footwear" at all times, for the projected conditions.

I have no idea of the full circumstances of the people being booked for wearing thongs - no doubt the coppers involved were being "conchy" - the individual driver was possibly wearing some pretty scabby thongs - and perhaps giving some "lip" to the officer/s involved, thus creating an atmosphere where a reason to book them was dug up - when no other major reason could be found.

I have driven in thongs many a time - and I've also had thongs catch under pedals when they slipped off - with no major dramas, apart from a moments concern as I recovered them.
However, secure footwear when driving, is constantly mentioned in all driving advice, and many cheap thongs don't offer that necessary foot security.

Cheers, Ron.
0
FollowupID: 871141

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:56

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:56
.
Ron, the mind boggles!
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 871149

Reply By: Tim F3 - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 14:52

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 14:52
How does this sit with yhe new models advertised with 700mm wading capacity ???
AnswerID: 601642

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 17:19

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 17:19
That is a real conundrum , manufacturers and advertising companies could or dare I say it 'should' in some cases be held accountable when things go pear shaped , they do not give anywhere near real use information or stipulate that the wading depth is for totally calm non flowing water with a solid base , My handbook states 700mm [013 FJ Cruiser] but have a 2" lift + 20mm larger diameter tires ,Ergo my 'wading depth' should be increased to 760mm ?? Don't think so !!
0
FollowupID: 871180

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 17:40

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 17:40
I thought the wading depth was simply the height of water you could go through without fear of sucking some into places it shouldn't go, like air filters or diff and gearbox breathers. If the car starts floating you've gone way past that. In your case with the lift and tyres you probably are good for 760mm as far as those items above are concerned.
0
FollowupID: 871181

Follow Up By: Tim F3 - Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 18:01

Monday, Jun 20, 2016 at 18:01
The floatation test appeared to me to show the patrol was partially boyant before the water level was above the tyres and slightly above the floor level. The woman reporter could push the patrol sideways at this point with one hand..

None of my patrols have floated when the water was above the tyre height...might have something to do with the gear inside..
0
FollowupID: 871182

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)